What is "Closure?"

[masyann]

(((sweetmop))) I have also survived the death of my teenage daughter who was killed just over 2 years ago. I agree totally there is no such thing as closure. I have found the pain does gets a little softer as time moves forward.

Cindy and George have a long hard road ahead of them.

This is a poem that I have on my memorial for my daughter:

I am wearing a pair of shoes. They are ugly shoes. Uncomfortable shoes. I hate my shoes. Each day I wear them, and each day I wish I had another pair. Some days my shoes hurt so bad that I do not think I can take another step. Yet, I continue to wear them. I get funny looks wearing these shoes. They are looks of sympathy. I can tell in other's eyes that they are glad they are my shoes and not theirs. They never talk about my shoes. To learn how awful my shoes are might make them uncomfortable. To truly understand these shoes you must walk in them. But, once you put them on, you can never take them off. I now realize that I am not the only one who wears these shoes. There are many pairs in this world. Some women are like me and ache daily as they try to walk in them. Some have learned how to walk in them so that they don't hurt quite so much. Some have worn the shoes so long that days will go by before they think about how much they hurt. No woman deserves to wear these shoes. Yet, because of these shoes I am a stronger woman. These shoes have given me the strength to face anything. They have made me who I am. I will forever walk in the shoes of a woman who has lost a child.

I am truly sorry. That made me cry. I have to say from experiece that I so understand that peom. To have a child die in a accident is very bad. mine was in 2000 and he was 16. But he was not murdered. I can not imagine haveing a 2 year old killed by someone who was supposeed to protect her. closure I vote no. Its just like your poem the shoes still hurt but sometimes you dont notice. I have been reading, lurking, few post here and there, this is the irst time I have read sometime the truly said it. Thats how I feel. thank you so much for sharing.

 

[masyann]

I lost my 12 year old daughter years ago to a genetic disease. Even though she was sick, her death came unexpectedly. I do not believe in the word 'closure'. There's no such thing. The wound is always there. It opens up when you see a favorite toy, hear a song, etc that reminds you of that loved one. I had to learn to take four plates out for dinner instead of five. I had to sit at the table night after night looking at the empty space my daughter used to sit at. I had to take down the bed she used to sleep in and see the pain my other children's eyes because they didn't have their sister to play with anymore. Today, my daughter would be 29 years old. I've watched her classmate graduate high, colleges, get married and have kids. And I still wonder what my daughter would have become if she was alive today. Nope, there is never closure...pain is always there. Our family has only learn how to include the pain in our lives and to go on. That's all.

I am sorry I keep reading these post and I do not cry and I am crying again i am a cry baby tonight. Maybe there should be a place for people who have lost children so I do not get in trouble. I am very affriad of getting in trouble.:chicken:

 

[masyann]

I think no matter who you have lost to death, it still hurts. We all grieve in our on way. Some are faster some are slower, but I do not believe it every goes away no matter how long it is. When I lost my dad, (87) that at the time was the worse thing I ever experiened. I have lost a brother, uncles, aunts, mother-in-law Then I lost my son and i dont think it can get any worse. But I guess what I am saying what ever your experice is that is the worst no matter what because you are the one going thru it. Whe my kids were little my biggest fear was them geting kidnapped or become missing, when thier young they dont understand. I dont know or anyone on this board but I feel like I do and I feel very deeply about all the sorrow. Ok enough I am babaling no I am not CA. I am just tired from school homework and being up all night reading this every night till 4. sorry I will go now thanks for listening to my ramblings.

 

[GenealogyKR]

Closure is not generalized. It is different for everyone in every way.

 

[masyann]

RR0004

That is terrible you needed more help more compasion, love, I feel bad, your friends, nieghbors or fmily members was anyone nice or helpful.
If I knew you, or was a person in your town that did not know you, I would have broght all your dishes and casoroles over that you wanted. Every one needs support. Things happen sometimes we have no control, again I am very sorry. Also I do not know what that feels llike but I can see where it would be had, you would have so many questions? This was ment for RR0004

 

[seekingjustice**]

I am truly sorry. That made me cry. I have to say from experiece that I so understand that peom. To have a child die in a accident is very bad. mine was in 2000 and he was 16. But he was not murdered. I can not imagine haveing a 2 year old killed by someone who was supposeed to protect her. closure I vote no. Its just like your poem the shoes still hurt but sometimes you dont notice. I have been reading, lurking, few post here and there, this is the irst time I have read sometime the truly said it. Thats how I feel. thank you so much for sharing.

(((masyann))) big hugs to you.

 

[Carolina Girl]

Thank you, Sweetmop.

 

[Gin]

I hate the word closure. Believe me, nothing "magical" happens to those who have experienced loss upon the burial of their loved one.

The concept of closure is appealing to some, because it appears to allow all the messiness and pain of grief to be wrapped up in a tidy package. Grief doesn't work that way.

Pain eases over time, but that's time, not some made up concept. Gradually the loss becomes much more bearable, but the loss will always be there.

 

[nomoresorrow]

Reading all of your posts here reaffirms that the human spirit is amazingly strong, somehow we go on. Three years ago I went to a grief support group. There were thirty-two in the group and the man who ran it was a seventh day adventist minister. It was one of the most painful experiences that I have ever had - the air was so heavy with pain it cut your breath off at times.Thirty-two broken hearts in one room. Husband's that lost a wife, wife's that lost a husband, lost sons, daughters, sisters, brothers, parents, best-friends, grandparents, nieces, nephews, even dogs and cats. Loved ones lost to cancers, suicides, automobile accidents, heart attacks and homicide - some expected and some not. It doesn't matter, its all pain. There were two significant things that I saw in that room. Parents of a fourteen year old son who had returned home to find him dead from hanging himself cried just as much for the person in the group who had lost a mother or a husband, wife, sister or brother as they did for their loss and likewise with every person in that group because the reality is this - it could be your child tomorrow or your parent, brother, sister, husband, wife,....... the other significant thing was that each one of us hated the term "closure". When people tell you that you need to find closure, what they're really saying is THEY NEED YOU TO FIND CLOSURE because your grief makes it awkward and uncomfortable for them. I remember when the war in Iraq began and the news coverage would show a mother who's child had been killed and she would be wailing in the street because that is their custom. It's too bad that we don't have that custom, to be able to grieve our losses openly without anybody questioning your mental status and suggesting an anti-depressant or saying that dreadful word, CLOSURE! Well until that day we can at least "wail" here at WS's.

:blowkiss: to all WS's!

 

[masyann]

Reading all of your posts here reaffirms that the human spirit is amazingly strong, somehow we go on. Three years ago I went to a grief support group. There were thirty-two in the group and the man who ran it was a seventh day adventist minister. It was one of the most painful experiences that I have ever had - the air was so heavy with pain it cut your breath off at times.Thirty-two broken hearts in one room. Husband's that lost a wife, wife's that lost a husband, lost sons, daughters, sisters, brothers, parents, best-friends, grandparents, nieces, nephews, even dogs and cats. Loved ones lost to cancers, suicides, automobile accidents, heart attacks and homicide - some expected and some not. It doesn't matter, its all pain. There were two significant things that I saw in that room. Parents of a fourteen year old son who had returned home to find him dead from hanging himself cried just as much for the person in the group who had lost a mother or a husband, wife, sister or brother as they did for their loss and likewise with every person in that group because the reality is this - it could be your child tomorrow or your parent, brother, sister, husband, wife,....... the other significant thing was that each one of us hated the term "closure". When people tell you that you need to find closure, what they're really saying is THEY NEED YOU TO FIND CLOSURE because your grief makes it awkward and uncomfortable for them. I remember when the war in Iraq began and the news coverage would show a mother who's child had been killed and she would be wailing in the street because that is their custom. It's too bad that we don't have that custom, to be able to grieve our losses openly without anybody questioning your mental status and suggesting an anti-depressant or saying that dreadful word, CLOSURE! Well until that day we can at least "wail" here at WS's.

:blowkiss: to all WS's!

That was well said. And I hope what I said was not taken wrong. (or not how I was feeling aobut it.) not as well as you did, but what ever loss you have is just as much of a loss. The sentenceI bolded blue makes so much sence to me. thank you for thank :clap:

 

[Mind student]

Grief has many layers and stages. NO ONE grieves the same. NO LOSS is the same. Most important this is no
right or wrong way to grieve. Keeping in mind that we are
unique individuals, so will be our experience.

A funeral, burial, scattering the remains provides the
experience of beginning the acceptance of loss.

Some never get over a loss. There are others who carry on with their lives with no outward sign of sorrow.

Closure is just a word that has been given to the act of
saying goodbye. IMHO, the reason maybe to provide
an sense that it is all right to return to living. So many
survivors feel guilty or angry. It is very difficult to begin
life again, without the one that died.

Nothing about grief is quick or simple.

Just sharing my thoughts,
Mind Student

 

[Bobbisangel]

Will the A's really get closure from their situation by having a burial for Caylee? Isn't is so much more than this?

I have never experienced a death of a child or a death close to me by violence. Is "closure" in these cases possible? Is there such a thing?

Listening to NG tonite, a victim herself of murdered loved one, she says a funeral does not bring closure, but it does factor into the grieving process.

As the mother of a murdered daughter I don't believe there is such a thing as closure in these cases. To me closure means finality. Now if after the service...and the killer is caught and sent to prison...if your child could return because he/she would be safe now...that would be closure to me. But we know that can't happen so we learn to live with our loss and try to move ahead with our lives even though we think of our child and miss them everyday of our lives.
I guess closure could also be putting our child out of our minds for good which we couldn't do. I think closure is just a word that gets tossed around a lot but doesn't mean what a lot of people think it does.

 

[DollyPardonMe]

As the mother of a murdered daughter I don't believe there is such a thing as closure in these cases. To me closure means finality. Now if after the service...and the killer is caught and sent to prison...if your child could return because he/she would be safe now...that would be closure to me. But we know that can't happen so we learn to live with our loss and try to move ahead with our lives even though we think of our child and miss them everyday of our lives.
I guess closure could also be putting our child out of our minds for good which we couldn't do. I think closure is just a word that gets tossed around a lot but doesn't mean what a lot of people think it does.

Im so sorry Bobbisangel. It must be heartbreaking to lose a child and unbearable when it's to murder. I hope and pray you had a support system and love that saw you through in your time of sadness. Hugs...:blowkiss:

 

[Bobbisangel]

Reading all of your posts here reaffirms that the human spirit is amazingly strong, somehow we go on. Three years ago I went to a grief support group. There were thirty-two in the group and the man who ran it was a seventh day adventist minister. It was one of the most painful experiences that I have ever had - the air was so heavy with pain it cut your breath off at times.Thirty-two broken hearts in one room. Husband's that lost a wife, wife's that lost a husband, lost sons, daughters, sisters, brothers, parents, best-friends, grandparents, nieces, nephews, even dogs and cats. Loved ones lost to cancers, suicides, automobile accidents, heart attacks and homicide - some expected and some not. It doesn't matter, its all pain. There were two significant things that I saw in that room. Parents of a fourteen year old son who had returned home to find him dead from hanging himself cried just as much for the person in the group who had lost a mother or a husband, wife, sister or brother as they did for their loss and likewise with every person in that group because the reality is this - it could be your child tomorrow or your parent, brother, sister, husband, wife,....... the other significant thing was that each one of us hated the term "closure". When people tell you that you need to find closure, what they're really saying is THEY NEED YOU TO FIND CLOSURE because your grief makes it awkward and uncomfortable for them. I remember when the war in Iraq began and the news coverage would show a mother who's child had been killed and she would be wailing in the street because that is their custom. It's too bad that we don't have that custom, to be able to grieve our losses openly without anybody questioning your mental status and suggesting an anti-depressant or saying that dreadful word, CLOSURE! Well until that day we can at least "wail" here at WS's.

:blowkiss: to all WS's!

I so agree with you. Our grief does tend to make people uncomfortable. They don't know what to say to us and so some ignore us when we walk into a room. I understood that so I didn't let it get to me. I wish we could go out into the middle of a street and wail too. I felt like doing that so often but was afraid someone would hear me and think I had lost it and call LE! It would have felt so good though.

 

[nomoresorrow]

I so agree with you. Our grief does tend to make people uncomfortable. They don't know what to say to us and so some ignore us when we walk into a room. I understood that so I didn't let it get to me. I wish we could go out into the middle of a street and wail too. I felt like doing that so often but was afraid someone would hear me and think I had lost it and call LE! It would have felt so good though.

Funny, if a woman DIDN'T do it over there, THAT would be considered abnormal and suspicious and when seen wailing in the streets nobody even asks what's wrong with her because they know what it means - death & grief. I mentioned this to my youngest son at one time and his response was, "Mom your not going to do that are you, Mom don't do that!" He was so concerned that his mother would do something to embarrass him. I don't know if it's just me but by the time I lost my Mother 3 years ago I had already lost 5 other loved one's and I didn't care as much about what other people thought or feel the need to appear to have "gotten over it and on with life" just to make other people comfortable. It was also the first time that, not once did I ever apologize for breaking down and crying regardless of where I was when it came over me.
Considering all of us WS's that have tragically lost loved one's, we could start a Websleuth's Wailing Room...:waitasec:

 

[mommyto4]

When people tell you that you need to find closure, what they're really saying is THEY NEED YOU TO FIND CLOSURE because your grief makes it awkward and uncomfortable for them.

Respectfully snipped.

I have always felt that way too. Its almost as though people are trying to tell you that we are sick of your crying and laying in bed all day, we don't wanna here it anymore so get some closure and move on.

 

[tx_Dot]

I think that "acceptance" is a more appropriate word. Closure makes it sound as if you have just closed that book and will be going on to the next one. That doesn't happen. After you have accepted that this death did, in fact, happen you begin bit by bit to heal from the shock of it all, but you never ever just close the book. I think a funeral does help to end the shock. The way it helps is that a lot of people are there and they hug you and tell you they're sorry and you see that they are sad too. You don't feel so alone in your grief then.

My bold....

Acceptance was the first word that came to my mind, when I saw this thread tittle.......You finally accept that nothing can be changed, & attempt to move on with your life.

This 'moving on' stage definately varies person to person, & sadly some struggle to even take the first steps.

Whomever 'coined' this process as *closure* probably hasn't suffered thru the process of losing a family memeber to a violent death.

"Closure" is attainable in your mind.......but seldom in your heart.

 

[gardenhart]

Grief has many layers and stages. NO ONE grieves the same. NO LOSS is the same. Most important this is no
right or wrong way to grieve. Keeping in mind that we are
unique individuals, so will be our experience.

A funeral, burial, scattering the remains provides the
experience of beginning the acceptance of loss.

Some never get over a loss. There are others who carry on with their lives with no outward sign of sorrow.

Closure is just a word that has been given to the act of
saying goodbye. IMHO, the reason maybe to provide
an sense that it is all right to return to living. So many
survivors feel guilty or angry. It is very difficult to begin
life again, without the one that died.

Nothing about grief is quick or simple.

Just sharing my thoughts,
Mind Student

I've never seen anyone use the term to mean "and then you get over it." Nancy was just looking for something to rant about and latched onto this.

No one expects a funeral to mean the grief turns off like a faucet. But what mind student wrote above is excellent. It also gives you a chance to voice your grief, remember and celebrate the life of the loved one, get love and support from family and friends.

I'm sure the people who have lost loved ones who have never been found and never been able to have a funeral know exactly what closure means.

And, yeah, with the implications of ending, it's probably not the best term but words are given new facets of meaning and usage all the time.

 

[sweetmop]

I have never understood the whole thing about people needing closure. It seems almost shallow to me that somehow you bury someone and get closure. What closure? There things are still around you, there pictures are still there, your heart still aches, its not like they didn't exist and you can just bury them and move on.

I lost my Dad to suicide 9 years ago. I miss him all the time. Every single time I hear about a suicide my first thought is always of my father and then the family of the deceased and what a horrific time they will be going through.

The hardest part is that loosing someone to suicide is so different from any other manner of death. There were no casseroles dropped off, only my 2 closest friends offered any help to me, people avoided me unless of course they wanted to know if Dad was depressed and what the note said. When its a suicide it seems that people are colder about the death, how do you get that elusive closure when all people seem to want is to avoid the topic.

I am so sorry for your tragic loss of your dad. I can imagine the pain and questions left within you.
Sending (((((Hugs))))) to you, mommyto4. :blowkiss:

 

[not_my_kids]

I don't think that the Anthony's will ever have closure on this matter. (With the exception of cell doors behind them, hopefully.)
Closure is a choice, a conscious decision not to let the pain and anger and confusion rule you. And it is so nearly impossible to do even when you have all the answers, that I can't see the A's being able to complete something for themselves that requires such a level of emotional maturity.
I do believe that there can be closure for some people, but it means getting to a point where you consciously tell yourself that your life will continue, that what stole your loved one will not take any more from you.
Also, I have this silly belief that closure is available only to those who weren't complicit in the crime that caused them the grief.