What is considered CONTROLLING?

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Although one must consider the call to Interact.

FYI, the call to Interact was initiated by Susan Crook, after receiving a worried call from HP upon seeing that 'weird list in BC's handwriting' that Nancy showed her. HP was very concerned so she called SC, who has a master's in psychology. SC called Interact. The details of that call were not discussed during the court hearing.
 
I describe my mother's behavior as controlling. And at 80 years old she certainly doesn't use physical force but she has tried the following tactics to get her way:

- Guilt
- Threats to write me out of their (hers and my father's) will (which only makes me giggle).
- She will stare me down.
- She'll whine, pout, throw a temper tantrum.
- Trying to instill fear of a situation

I consider all those behaviors controlling or attempts at control.
 
FYI, the call to Interact was initiated by Susan Crook, after receiving a worried call from HP upon seeing that 'weird list in BC's handwriting' that Nancy showed her. HP was very concerned so she called SC, who has a master's in psychology. SC called Interact. The details of that call were not discussed during the court hearing.

Gotcha.

Do you think he made that list in preparation for the separation after he decided he was going to fight to keep the kids?
 
i describe my mother's behavior as controlling. And at 80 years old she certainly doesn't use physical force but she has tried the following tactics to get her way:

- guilt
- threats to write me out of their (hers and my father's) will (which only makes me giggle).
- she will stare me down.
- she'll whine, pout, throw a temper tantrum.
- trying to instill fear of a situation

i consider all those behaviors controlling or attempts at control.

absolutely.
 
Here is a list of Controlling Behaviors as listed in numerous Domestic Violence websites.


Controlling Behaviors

Batterers have many ways of manipulating and controlling their partners. Battering behavior often "starts small" and escalates to more severe abuse. Abuse also can go through a series of cycles, with each successive period of abuse more extreme than the last.

* VERBAL ABUSE
o Name-calling, put-downs, insults
o Making degrading comments, i.e. "you can't do anything right"
o Yelling and swearing

* FINANCIAL ABUSE
o Controlling all decisions about money
o Taking any money earned by partner
o Keeping everything in the batterer's name
o Preventing partner from working or getting more training and education
o Emptying bank accounts, spending money on self
o Doling out an "allowance" only when partner is compliant
o Making partner financially dependent and helpless
o Compulsive gambling or spending, running up credit card debts
o Destroying partner's credit rating

* USING GENDER ROLES TO DOMINATE
o Claiming religious or cultural traditions to justify dominating partner
o Giving commands and orders
o Always claiming to be right
o (Heterosexual female) Claiming that men are inferior, "pigs" or "the oppressors"
o (Heterosexual male) Claiming male superiority and "rationality"
o (Gay/lesbian) Claiming batterer should be in control because he or she is more "butch"
o (Gay/lesbian) Ridiculing partner for being "too butch," "too femme," or "too stereotyped," "flaming," etc.

* PSYCHOLOGICAL ABUSE
o Playing mind-games
o Ignoring the partner's feelings
o "Twisting things around," blaming the partner for the abuse
o Minimizing the abuse, telling partner that "it's not that bad"
o Exploiting advantages in intelligence or education, ridiculing partner for differences
o Using "reason" to "logically" attack partner's feelings, opinions, or beliefs

* SPIRITUAL ABUSE
o Claiming spiritual authority for abuse or domination
o Belittling or criticizing partner's spiritual beliefs, religion or church
o Belittling or criticizing partner's religious heritage or family's religion
o Not allowing partner to follow own worship or spiritual practices
o Using "logic" and "reasoning" to attack partner's beliefs
o Forcing partner to adopt batterer's own belief system and practices
o Forcing partner to become part of an abusive cult
o Threatening to expose partner's belief in a minority religion to people she (he) doesn't want to know about it
o Threatening to use partner's spiritual beliefs or religion to get custody of children

* ISOLATION
o Monitoring and/or restricting telephone calls (and/or e-mail, etc)
o Limiting or cutting off contact with the partner's friends and family
o Humiliating partner or acting out in front of partner's friends so they stay away; threatening or intimidating partner's friends
o Restricting or denying partner's access to transportation
o Forcing partner to move to isolated location
o Monitoring all mail
o Forcing partner to quit job, volunteer work, etc
o Forcing partner to cut back on work hours or change jobs "to spend more time with me"
o Insisting on going everywhere with partner

* INTIMIDATION
o Using greater size and strength to instill fear
o Blocking exits, "cornering" partner, locking doors
o Destroying valued possessions, furniture or property
o Threatening to harm children or pets
o Threatening to report partner to social services for abusing children
o Threatening to harm family or friends for helping partner
o Threatening to turn in a partner for a petty crime, being an illegal immigrant, using drugs, etc
o (gay/lesbian) Threatening to "out" partner to family or employers
o Using threatening looks and gestures (raised fist, etc)
o Displaying or talking about weapons
o Threatening suicide if partner leaves or tries to make changes

* SEXUAL ABUSE
o Using coercion or force to get sex when partner doesn't want it
o Physically attacking and hurting specific body parts (genitals, breasts, etc)
o Preventing the use of birth control and/or safe sex practices

* PHYSICAL ABUSE
o Pushing, throwing objects, tripping
o Hitting, choking, pulling hair, dragging partner, throwing partner into walls or onto the floor
o Coercing or forcing partner to use drugs or alcohol against his or her will
o Hurting or killing pets
o Abusing partner's children
o Using a weapon against partner
o Murdering partner's children
o Murdering partner
 
If there's anything more to the Interact thing that we don't know, wouldn't that have definitely come out at the hearing? Maybe we're thinking LE or Interact has something we don't know about and really they don't.
 
What is your definition of controlling?

It would be preventing someone from doing things that would be considered normal in our society. So preventing people from having friends, or going places. Not allowing them to talk on the phone or leave the house, or making them check in when they leave the house, and every step along the way. Cutting them off financially so that every thing they do depends on you (and no, I don't consider giving someone $1200/month to spend on day to day things as falling in that category). Breaking them down through verbal abuse. If true, I would consider what JWB said about Brad to be controlling behavior...telling them that no one else would want them, that they are fat, etc. Breaking them down mentally.

These are things I would consider controlling.
 
It would be preventing someone from doing things that would be considered normal in our society. So preventing people from having friends, or going places. Not allowing them to talk on the phone or leave the house, or making them check in when they leave the house, and every step along the way. Cutting them off financially so that every thing they do depends on you (and no, I don't consider giving someone $1200/month to spend on day to day things as falling in that category). Breaking them down through verbal abuse. If true, I would consider what JWB said about Brad to be controlling behavior...telling them that no one else would want them, that they are fat, etc. Breaking them down mentally.

These are things I would consider controlling.

Well, I DEFINITELY agree that these things fall under the definition of controlling.

And, even you mentioned "preventing people from going places." In my example earlier, I mentioned a spouse that might forbid the other to go out, and hide the keys so they could not drive. This is just one example I could give of the many ways in which one person can be controlling.
 
So manipulative behaviors =/ control?

Control can definitely include manipulation, but manipulation does not always indicate an attempt at controlling a person. For instance, I can manipulate a situation to where someone believes something that is not true, but I am not necessarily trying to control that person.
 
Passive/aggressive people can instill fear in you. You never know what they're up to behind the scenes. They are "predictably unpredictable."

I'm sure finding that list of BC's re accounts, children's likes, etc. sent a chill thru NC. The one thing they never are is direct and non-defensive.
HP testified about the lists NC found, she told NC this is crazy. "You never know what a crazy person will do."
 
HP testified about the lists NC found, she told NC this is crazy. "You never know what a crazy person will do."

I wouldn't consider it crazy. I'd consider it scary. If I'd found this, I'd know he was thinking, planning, possibly planning on a life without me-just him and the kids. Scary. Either he's going to eliminate me or try to get the kids from me or maybe just thinking thru how to do the divorce.
 
I wouldn't consider it crazy. I'd consider it scary. If I'd found this, I'd know he was thinking, planning, possibly planning on a life without me-just him and the kids. Scary. Either he's going to eliminate me or try to get the kids from me or maybe just thinking thru how to do the divorce.

It would make my heart skip a beat to run across something like this...
 
I think both NC and BC were engaged in different behaviors in an attempt to be "controlling."

NC spent money as a means to get back at BC, IMO. Since there was so much anger and hurt already in the marriage, a common agreement for the mutual good of each (were they thinking about continuing a life together as a family or a husband and wife) wasn't possible. BC, like many men, again IMO, was approaching it from what he considered a practical point of view in trying to curb the spending. Of course, if it went to the point of having utilities like water shut off, it was going too far. NC was fighting back. Each was attempting to control some aspect of the other.

For a passive-agressive person, having their intentions not only found out and understood, but thwarted as well, that type of self-discovery can lead to some pretty agressive behavior and attitudes.
 
I think that Shadow722's list is a window into the many faces of "control". And it's not everything at once.

There's usually a slow and consistent eroding of one's sense of self so much so that the person barely recognizes themselves.

Brad and Nancy appeared to live a very dual life - one in public - one that was very concerned with image and appearances - one that they both seemed driven to uphold. And then one very different behind closed doors - one of constant battling about money and spending mostly.

I will say this again - I think that Nancy was controlled up until the last few months and something happened to give her strength. From my experience, for someone to be controlled by a lover, usually it's another love interest that gives them the strength to leave. She KNEW she always had family support, and friends, but something was different.

I've had a hard time with the "controlling" issue, too. I think he was far more successful at controlling her in 2007. 2008 seemed to be a turning point. She hired TS. How did someone with no access to money, knowing that this would stir up a HUGE fight, hire a pit bull divorce attorney? She seemed to be going her own way more - pushing the envelope, developing her strength, pushing Brad's buttons. Controlled women DO NOT DO THIS - because they are afraid - and not always physically - but afraid of the passive aggressive comeback, the insults, the stressful living situation, etc.

So - it's quite possible that she was feeling LESS afraid because she was feeling stronger -and that was only serving to piss him off more. So - she'd tell her father that she'd be fine - because she FELT that she would be - she was getting the old Nancy back - and the old Nancy cold handle this. She was looking FORWARD to her new life - whatever that was going to be.

If I am being totally honest - I think that the loss of control is what pissed bad off and eventually led to him killing her. I think he knew that eventually he'd be paying alimony and child support and that she'd probably end up back in Canada, possibly reigniting an old flame (while he's paying the bills) and having to scale WAY back on his lifestyle.

Even with things really bad at home - publicly, they looked pretty perfect - stay at home mom, 2 beautiful girls, nice home, 2 BMWs - it's an image they both propagated. That was going to change for Brad and everyone would be around to see how his lifestyle / standard of living declined - the house would be sold, etc., and Nancy would probably have stories (true or not) of how wonderful her life was now, etc., esp if she was prone to exaggeration. That would have infuriated him, if I know his type.

And there was only one way to regain control.....
 
I think both NC and BC were engaged in different behaviors in an attempt to be "controlling."

NC spent money as a means to get back at BC, IMO. Since there was so much anger and hurt already in the marriage, a common agreement for the mutual good of each (were they thinking about continuing a life together as a family or a husband and wife) wasn't possible. BC, like many men, again IMO, was approaching it from what he considered a practical point of view in trying to curb the spending. Of course, if it went to the point of having utilities like water shut off, it was going too far. NC was fighting back. Each was attempting to control some aspect of the other.

For a passive-agressive person, having their intentions not only found out and understood, but thwarted as well, that type of self-discovery can lead to some pretty agressive behavior and attitudes.

If Nancy were controlling, I would think we have a woman here who was reacting and fighting BACK at what BC was attempting to do to her, as you said. I don't see a woman who was treating people in her life in general this way. And if she was attempting to get back with someone in Canada who she was with before, apparently HE didn't see her that way. I don't see many of BC's ex-girlfriends willing to have him back in their lives.

I wonder how Brad and his mother got along with her living in the house? If Brad learned his controlling behaviors from his mother...
 
It would be preventing someone from doing things that would be considered normal in our society. So preventing people from having friends, or going places. Not allowing them to talk on the phone or leave the house, or making them check in when they leave the house, and every step along the way. Cutting them off financially so that every thing they do depends on you (and no, I don't consider giving someone $1200/month to spend on day to day things as falling in that category). Breaking them down through verbal abuse. If true, I would consider what JWB said about Brad to be controlling behavior...telling them that no one else would want them, that they are fat, etc. Breaking them down mentally.

These are things I would consider controlling.

Pathological controlling would be the above-treating someone as less than what they are: another adult with a right to be shown respect as an adult who can make their own choices in life.

BC forcing NC to do her life very differently than she wanted would have felt awfully controlling to her. But she made herself susceptible to this treatment by overspending, agreeing to go to a different country where she couldn't legally work. She was her own worst enemy (as we all can be.)
 
Pathological controlling would be the above-treating someone as less than what they are: another adult with a right to be shown respect as an adult who can make their own choices in life.

BC forcing NC to do her life very differently than she wanted would have felt awfully controlling to her. But she made herself susceptible to this treatment by overspending, agreeing to go to a different country where she couldn't legally work. She was her own worst enemy (as we all can be.)

I don't think she was her own worst enemy!!!
 
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