What's eating you alive re this case?

[Heymom]

Well we know that now. But would he have necessarily known there wasn't another exit door behind that door? The house was hard to navigate I'm sure. I still think it was important to check everything and all areas thoroughly to make sure nothing was looked over and no one was hiding inside the home. Burke was still in the home and could've still been in danger. I just think that the crime scene wasn't handled properly and no one wanted to "insult" the family since they were told to handle them with kid gloves.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

But you can't shut a door like that if you've gone through it, that's the whole point. The block of wood that kept the door shut was across the door jamb. Anyone who went into that room could not have moved the block of wood from the inside, to close it. It would have been ajar in any case. So the police officer did not need to look behind that door since it was shut in a way that eliminated anyone behind in there.

 

[PositiveLight]

More things I found telling: From a candy rose website. http://www.acandyrose.com/crimescene-basement.htm
((((if anything is in between these, it's my thoughts regarding the following quote))))


Excerpts from National Enquirer book, "JonBenet, The Police Files" by Don Gentile and David Wright


1998 June 25, 26, 27 - Taped Interrogation interview of John Ramsey by Lou Smit and Michael Kane in Colorado


NE Book Page 302
(((WTH JR? The WHY is obvious!)))
John Ramsey: "(She said) When this person calls you've got to insist that you talk to JonBenet and stall for time.
And I said why..? (She said) to tell him it's a hard job to raise this much money and use the time. But you must
talk to JonBenet...."


Lou Smit: "...Did you ever go down to the basement?"


(((John is admitting he tampered with the scene of the crime! Didn't someone else find it open after the body was found?
Meaning JR may have re opened it later after the cops had done their walkthrough of course. I don't think he wanted the
body found in the early part of the morning so he closed the window to make it appear that it wasn't ever open. Then
Later when John and FW "find her body the window is open? I'm wondering if John was trying to make it appear that
someone saw the police presence and snuck JonBenet's dead body into the basement later in the morning. Also I noted
he put the chair back in front of the door. WHY? Why not leave it away from the door?)))


John Ramsey: "Uh huh. I went....I was by myself. There's three windows across here...the middle one...was broken.
There was pane glass broken out of it, which I attributed to breaking myself... it was open (an inch or so) and
there was a suitcase under it...this hard Samonsite suitcase...and I closed the window. I don't know why, but
I closed it... I latched it... I don't think I looked anywhere else."


Lou Smit: "...Did you tell anybody about that?"


((John admits to being the one who brought the suitcase down to the basement but notice he doesn't say WHEN
he did it. And of course Smit doesn't follow up with the appropriate question.))))


John Ramsey: "I don't really remember... I mean part of what is going on, you're in such a state of disbelief
this can happen. And the, you know, the window had been broken out. And you say, hah, that's it. But it was a
window that I had used to get into the house before. It was cracked and open a little bit. It wasn't terribly
unusual for me. Sometimes it would get opened to let cool air in because that basement could get real hot in
winter...it was still sort of explainable to me that it could have been left open.....The suitcase was unusual.
That shouldn't have been there. I took that suitcase downstairs, I remember. But I sure wouldn't have taken it
all the way back there and put it against the window. I'm 99.9 percent (sure) that I wouldn't have taken it
all the way back and set it against that wall."


((((WHY did he NOT look everywhere and in everything?? Wasn't that his whole purpose in doing the walk through?)))


Lou Smit: "Any other areas you looked at? You walked into that train room? Did you look at any of the closets
or in any other areas?"


John Ramsey: "I don't remember doing that...."


Lou Smit: "You didn't go to the wine cellar at that time?"


John Ramsey: "No."


Lou Smit: "How long would you say you were down there?"


(((Does JR have any concept of time??? This 'minute. 30 seconds to a minute' is BS!)))


John Ramsey: "Oh, a minute. Thirty seconds to a minute."


Michael Kane: "When was this?"


John Ramsey: "....It was probably some time between seven and nine."




Excerpts from National Enquirer book,
"JonBenet, The Police Files"
by Don Gentile and David Wright


1998 June 25, 26, 27 - Taped Interrogation interview of John Ramsey by Lou Smit and Michael Kane in Colorado


NE Book Page 304


Lou Smit: "What made you go downstairs?"




((Again John 'thinks' he broke it??? Either you did or you didn't. That's something you remember doing!)))

John Ramsey: "I just wanted to start logically from the bottom up, I guess.... so I went down to the basement...
I explained to (Fleet) that this window had been cracked open and I closed it.... that the window was broken,
but I think it was broken by me... we got down on our hands and knees looking for some glass just to see."


Lou Smit: "What did you find?"


John Ramsey: "I think we found a few fragments of glass... not enough to indicate that it was a fresh break...
we might have put them on the ledge, if I remember. It really wasn't much. We had only found one or two."




Excerpts from National Enquirer book,
"JonBenet, The Police Files"
by Don Gentile and David Wright


1998 June 25, 26, 27 - Taped Interrogation interview of John Ramsey by Lou Smit and Michael Kane in Colorado


NE Book Page 314


"Like Patsy, John was shown a series of crime scene photographs. One showed a chair blocking the door into the
train room in the basement. To get to the broken window in the cellar, someone has to go through that door.
Ramsey found the chair blocking the entrance way during his first search of the basement, moved it and then
moved it back, he said. The information cast some doubt on the intruder theory."


Lou Smit: "So you think that the chair would block the door and nobody would have gotten in there without moving it?"


John Ramsey: "Correct"


Lou Smit: "In other words, let's say that the intruder goes into the train room, gets out, let's say, that window?"


John Ramsey: "Uh huh."

((((JR dodges answering this question and diverts attention))))


Lou Smit: "How in effect would he get that chair to block that door, if that is the case, is what I'm saying?"


John Ramsey: "I don't know... I go down, I say, "Ooh, that door is blocked." I move the chair and went in the room."


Lou Smit: "So you couldn't have gotten in without moving the chair?"


John Ramsey: "Correct... I had to move the chair."


(((IMHO Smit is possibly seeing the BS JR keeps shoveling.))))


Lou Smit: "The thing I'm trying to figure out in my mind then is, if an intruder went through the door, he'd
almost have to pull the chair behind him... because that would have been his exit... so that's not very logical
as far as......"


((((does it jump out to anyone else that in this quote JR almost seems to be patting himself on the back for
possibly being smarter than the cops?))))


John Ramsey: "I think it is. I mean if this person is that bizarrely clever to have not left any good evidence,
but left all these little funny clues around, they... are clever enough to pull the chair back when they left."

JMOO

 

[Occams Razor]

What's currently eating me alive? The 3rd CBS episode: 2 hours of un-aired goodness that was pulled due to "saturation" of the airwaves with other Jonbenet shows. Riiiiiight. lol.

I recall two things in the trailer that grabbed my attention: 1.) A voice answering the phone in a Southern accent (Patsy's relatives?) saying "Don't you ever, EVER contact me again," and 2.) the camera crew chasing Burke up on the lawn. (Trailer here). TV gold! :clap:

I really hope CBS sells the series to Netflix or something so we can see the conclusion. For once, the producers of a JBR show pulled no punches and we NEED to see that episode!

^All MOO.

 

[singularity]

PL...

(((IMHO Smit is possibly seeing the BS JR keeps shoveling.))))

Smit and John are holding hands shoveling the same horse manure. THis right here is the worst exchange in their interview....


JOHN RAMSEY: Well, it's obviously been moved around some. This bag has been moved, looks like.

MIKE KANE: Which one are you referring to?

JOHN RAMSEY: A purple bag with my name on it.

MIKE KANE: From where to where?

JOHN RAMSEY: Well, it looks like it's been moved down off the pile, because it's usually here. This laundry basket doesn't show in here.

LOU SMIT: So it looks like something has been moved between the time this picture was taken and this picture was taken?

JOHN RAMSEY: It looks like this cane has been moved.

----

These men know that the only person who could have moved anything in that basement during the timeframe between those photos being taken is John but Smit(or Kane) never calls him on it. He simply moves on. This means Smit is willing to play a game pretending there's a phantom intruder in the house while BPD is there. Smit doesn't say this of course but its implied by his refusal to bring up the discrepancy in the photographs to John.

Had Smit been on the up and up, this is a key gotcha moment and he would've taken advantage of it. It proves Ramsey involvement in the staging. The entire interview should have been stopped when Smit refused to push John on the issue. There's no point in interviewing suspects if you're never going to call them out on anything.

Had the FBI been there observing the interview, red flags would've likely gone up. Not in John's direction but in Smit and Kane's.

 

[PositiveLight]

PL...

Smit and John are holding hands shoveling the same horse manure. THis right here is the worst exchange in their interview....


JOHN RAMSEY: Well, it's obviously been moved around some. This bag has been moved, looks like.

MIKE KANE: Which one are you referring to?

JOHN RAMSEY: A purple bag with my name on it.

MIKE KANE: From where to where?

JOHN RAMSEY: Well, it looks like it's been moved down off the pile, because it's usually here. This laundry basket doesn't show in here.

LOU SMIT: So it looks like something has been moved between the time this picture was taken and this picture was taken?

JOHN RAMSEY: It looks like this cane has been moved.

----

These men know that the only person who could have moved anything in that basement during the timeframe between those photos being taken is John but Smit(or Kane) never calls him on it. He simply moves on. This means Smit is willing to play a game pretending there's a phantom intruder in the house while BPD is there. Smit doesn't say this of course but its implied by his refusal to bring up the discrepancy in the photographs to John.

Had Smit been on the up and up, this is a key gotcha moment and he would've taken advantage of it. It proves Ramsey involvement in the staging. The entire interview should have been stopped when Smit refused to push John on the issue. There's no point in interviewing suspects if you're never going to call them out on anything.

Had the FBI been there observing the interview, red flags would've likely gone up. Not in John's direction but in Smit and Kane's.

EXACTLY! It drives me absolutely insane!
Where the heck did these people learn the art of interrogation from???? They NEVER follow up on anything! Makes you want to poke your eyes out!

 

[madeleine]

EXACTLY! It drives me absolutely insane!
Where the heck did these people learn the art of interrogation from???? They NEVER follow up on anything! Makes you want to poke your eyes out!

They HAD to agree with the format imposed by the Ramsey team. They should have said no IMO.

 

[singularity]

They sure as hell didn't have to ignore incriminating statements.

They did.

and that's the problem.

 

[TeaTime]

Smit wasn't trying to find out anything, he decided that the Ramseys didn't kill JBR after praying with them, so his mission was to created reasonable doubt. Challenging JR's version of events was on his list of things to do.

 

[megstoriches]

The thing I keep coming back to the most is the ransom note. It is just so strange...It is so long, oddly worded, and found in the strangest place. Would someone (in my opinion the mother) be able to pen something like this in a state of shock? Or is this exactly what someone would do in a panic? Thoughts?

 

[kanzz]

The thing I keep coming back to the most is the ransom note. It is just so strange...It is so long, oddly worded, and found in the strangest place. Would someone (in my opinion the mother) be able to pen something like this in a state of shock? Or is this exactly what someone would do in a panic? Thoughts?

I do believe PR is the author of that RN. All others whose handwriting samples were obtained have been excluded - except her. As for her state of mind - we can only guess. If BDI all as I suspect, and then she did the staging and the undoing, she would most likely have been working through some denial and anger as well. That denial level might have been pretty high. Some things are just too surreal for the mind to deal with it at the time.

She was focused on protecting her only remaining kid and she was doing that with purpose. Writing that RN had to have taken some time. If just copying it alone takes at least 20 minutes, composing it would have taken at least an hour, I'd think. By then, she was wearing blinders. This was her only focus.

We only have her word about where it was "found". And frankly, I don't believe it for one minute.

 

[Heymom]

The thing I keep coming back to the most is the ransom note. It is just so strange...It is so long, oddly worded, and found in the strangest place. Would someone (in my opinion the mother) be able to pen something like this in a state of shock? Or is this exactly what someone would do in a panic? Thoughts?

Well, first off, it wasn't "found" at all. Patsy said it was on the step of the spiral staircase but that was just fiction, because she could never have stepped over that step physically. I believe it was done as a deliberate attempt to confuse/distract LE and draw attention away from the family. I think PR had the most input but JR could have given her permission to do it but she got carried away with her drama and created a novella instead. They wanted to put elements into it which would implicate others, such as their housekeeper, and that couldn't be done in just a couple of sentences. Thus, all the extraneous junk and the amount of the ransom (which was known to at least some other people, evidently). That part didn't seem to work well but the BPD was so incompetent and inexperienced that the Ramseys got out of the house that day and behind a wall of lawyers before the BPD even realized what had taken place. So in a way, that crazy ransom letter did work.

 

[PositiveLight]

The thing I keep coming back to the most is the ransom note. It is just so strange...It is so long, oddly worded, and found in the strangest place. Would someone (in my opinion the mother) be able to pen something like this in a state of shock? Or is this exactly what someone would do in a panic? Thoughts?

I think Patsy wrote the note.
I think she compartmentalized during the writing the book, er note. I think she was probably highly medicated too 'and hence' the rambling repetitive wording. Her only focus at that time was to divert attention from within the home. When in fact, it pointed right back into the home. The ransom note did work but not as they had planned. It only muddied the waters of the case. They wanted it to point to some crazed foreign pedophile faction. In reality it pointed to them instead.
I think any of us, given similar circumstances could pull off a letter as PR did by compartmentalizing and focusing on one single goal at a time.
Of course if it had been my child, 911 would have been called and I would have personally handed over my other child if they in fact did this crime. But that's just me.
Jmoo!

 

[singularity]

And frankly, I don't believe it for one minute.

Me either. The writer of the note cant find the note.

One mistake although it didn't matter since they weren't called on it is how both were very reluctant to even touch the note. It's always on the floor. John was a contortionist in his underwear while reading the note when the simple and logical thing to do when your daughter has been "kidnapped" and there's a note left behind is to just pick it up instinctively and read the damn thing.

So in a way, that crazy ransom letter did work.

Indeed. Patsy penned a get out of jail free card that will be analyzed for centuries.

 

[BBB167893]

The thing I keep coming back to the most is the ransom note. It is just so strange...It is so long, oddly worded, and found in the strangest place. Would someone (in my opinion the mother) be able to pen something like this in a state of shock? Or is this exactly what someone would do in a panic? Thoughts?

I agree with the majority: I don't think the shock had set in yet. Patsy just did what a lot of people do in a serious crisis: sucked it up and went for it.

 

[madeleine]

The thing I keep coming back to the most is the ransom note. It is just so strange...It is so long, oddly worded, and found in the strangest place. Would someone (in my opinion the mother) be able to pen something like this in a state of shock? Or is this exactly what someone would do in a panic? Thoughts?

Some anti depressants act like drugs if you take too many. Maybe she took some extra pills and THEN wrote it? To me the handwriting looks like the writer was trembling or something. Being high could also explain the strange staging? She was throwing up a lot after friends and cops arrived no?

 

[PositiveLight]

Some anti depressants act like drugs if you take too many. Maybe she took some extra pills and THEN wrote it? To me the handwriting looks like the writer was trembling or something. Being high could also explain the strange staging? She was throwing up a lot after friends and cops arrived no?

you have a good point about her shaky writing.
Between nerves and a mix of meds with possible wine from the party and her hands would more than likely tremble.
I'm not sure about the throwing up though. Maybe someone else here knows? I'd be interested in the answer too.

 

[Detective Pinkie]

More things I found telling: From a candy rose website. http://www.acandyrose.com/crimescene-basement.htm
((((if anything is in between these, it's my thoughts regarding the following quote))))


Excerpts from National Enquirer book, "JonBenet, The Police Files" by Don Gentile and David Wright


1998 June 25, 26, 27 - Taped Interrogation interview of John Ramsey by Lou Smit and Michael Kane in Colorado


NE Book Page 302
(((WTH JR? The WHY is obvious!)))
John Ramsey: "(She said) When this person calls you've got to insist that you talk to JonBenet and stall for time.
And I said why..? (She said) to tell him it's a hard job to raise this much money and use the time. But you must
talk to JonBenet...."


Lou Smit: "...Did you ever go down to the basement?"


(((John is admitting he tampered with the scene of the crime! Didn't someone else find it open after the body was found?
Meaning JR may have re opened it later after the cops had done their walkthrough of course. I don't think he wanted the
body found in the early part of the morning so he closed the window to make it appear that it wasn't ever open. Then
Later when John and FW "find her body the window is open? I'm wondering if John was trying to make it appear that
someone saw the police presence and snuck JonBenet's dead body into the basement later in the morning. Also I noted
he put the chair back in front of the door. WHY? Why not leave it away from the door?)))


John Ramsey: "Uh huh. I went....I was by myself. There's three windows across here...the middle one...was broken.
There was pane glass broken out of it, which I attributed to breaking myself... it was open (an inch or so) and
there was a suitcase under it...this hard Samonsite suitcase...and I closed the window. I don't know why, but
I closed it... I latched it... I don't think I looked anywhere else."


Lou Smit: "...Did you tell anybody about that?"


((John admits to being the one who brought the suitcase down to the basement but notice he doesn't say WHEN
he did it. And of course Smit doesn't follow up with the appropriate question.))))


John Ramsey: "I don't really remember... I mean part of what is going on, you're in such a state of disbelief
this can happen. And the, you know, the window had been broken out. And you say, hah, that's it. But it was a
window that I had used to get into the house before. It was cracked and open a little bit. It wasn't terribly
unusual for me. Sometimes it would get opened to let cool air in because that basement could get real hot in
winter...it was still sort of explainable to me that it could have been left open.....The suitcase was unusual.
That shouldn't have been there. I took that suitcase downstairs, I remember. But I sure wouldn't have taken it
all the way back there and put it against the window. I'm 99.9 percent (sure) that I wouldn't have taken it
all the way back and set it against that wall."


((((WHY did he NOT look everywhere and in everything?? Wasn't that his whole purpose in doing the walk through?)))


Lou Smit: "Any other areas you looked at? You walked into that train room? Did you look at any of the closets
or in any other areas?"


John Ramsey: "I don't remember doing that...."


Lou Smit: "You didn't go to the wine cellar at that time?"


John Ramsey: "No."


Lou Smit: "How long would you say you were down there?"


(((Does JR have any concept of time??? This 'minute. 30 seconds to a minute' is BS!)))


John Ramsey: "Oh, a minute. Thirty seconds to a minute."


Michael Kane: "When was this?"


John Ramsey: "....It was probably some time between seven and nine."




Excerpts from National Enquirer book,
"JonBenet, The Police Files"
by Don Gentile and David Wright


1998 June 25, 26, 27 - Taped Interrogation interview of John Ramsey by Lou Smit and Michael Kane in Colorado


NE Book Page 304


Lou Smit: "What made you go downstairs?"




((Again John 'thinks' he broke it??? Either you did or you didn't. That's something you remember doing!)))

John Ramsey: "I just wanted to start logically from the bottom up, I guess.... so I went down to the basement...
I explained to (Fleet) that this window had been cracked open and I closed it.... that the window was broken,
but I think it was broken by me... we got down on our hands and knees looking for some glass just to see."


Lou Smit: "What did you find?"


John Ramsey: "I think we found a few fragments of glass... not enough to indicate that it was a fresh break...
we might have put them on the ledge, if I remember. It really wasn't much. We had only found one or two."




Excerpts from National Enquirer book,
"JonBenet, The Police Files"
by Don Gentile and David Wright


1998 June 25, 26, 27 - Taped Interrogation interview of John Ramsey by Lou Smit and Michael Kane in Colorado


NE Book Page 314


"Like Patsy, John was shown a series of crime scene photographs. One showed a chair blocking the door into the
train room in the basement. To get to the broken window in the cellar, someone has to go through that door.
Ramsey found the chair blocking the entrance way during his first search of the basement, moved it and then
moved it back, he said. The information cast some doubt on the intruder theory."


Lou Smit: "So you think that the chair would block the door and nobody would have gotten in there without moving it?"


John Ramsey: "Correct"


Lou Smit: "In other words, let's say that the intruder goes into the train room, gets out, let's say, that window?"


John Ramsey: "Uh huh."

((((JR dodges answering this question and diverts attention))))


Lou Smit: "How in effect would he get that chair to block that door, if that is the case, is what I'm saying?"


John Ramsey: "I don't know... I go down, I say, "Ooh, that door is blocked." I move the chair and went in the room."


Lou Smit: "So you couldn't have gotten in without moving the chair?"


John Ramsey: "Correct... I had to move the chair."


(((IMHO Smit is possibly seeing the BS JR keeps shoveling.))))


Lou Smit: "The thing I'm trying to figure out in my mind then is, if an intruder went through the door, he'd
almost have to pull the chair behind him... because that would have been his exit... so that's not very logical
as far as......"


((((does it jump out to anyone else that in this quote JR almost seems to be patting himself on the back for
possibly being smarter than the cops?))))


John Ramsey: "I think it is. I mean if this person is that bizarrely clever to have not left any good evidence,
but left all these little funny clues around, they... are clever enough to pull the chair back when they left."

JMOO

It has been quite some time since I read these so I may be remembering wrong ( and I will try to double check when I have 5 mins) but the thing with the chair may have come about because JR didn't know at first that FW and/or that policeman was down in the basement early and one or both of them somehow contradict the chair story so he had to explain it away. I can't remember the exact story but it is something like one didn't mention having to move the chair so it meant that JR may have been in the basement earlier/ later than he said. I will try to find it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[andreww]

For a guy that ran a billion dollar empire, he sure had problems keeping his facts straight.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Heymom]

Me either. The writer of the note cant find the note.

One mistake although it didn't matter since they weren't called on it is how both were very reluctant to even touch the note. It's always on the floor. John was a contortionist in his underwear while reading the note when the simple and logical thing to do when your daughter has been "kidnapped" and there's a note left behind is to just pick it up instinctively and read the damn thing.




Indeed. Patsy penned a get out of jail free card that will be analyzed for centuries.

Maybe because Patsy wrote it with gloves on so her fingerprints wouldn't be found on it? They didn't want any fingerprints to be found on the ransom novella. But they just weren't thinking clearly - of course it would be NORMAL for people to pick up and handle such a note, and the fact that no fingerprints were found on the pad, pen, etc. just points straight back at them. Also maybe it was helpful in the handwriting disguise as Patsy may have been a bit clumsy wearing gloves.

 

[bethanna2004]

I can already feel the backlash coming.........this is what's eating me alive........I keep reviewing things and several days ago I would have bet my life savings that RDI........now, welI do think there is a possibility an intruder did it. Here's why. .......the blow to the head rendered her unconscious, but the outward injury was not visible. If BDI and alerted his folks, I would have thought they would have called an ambulance. And it was said at one point that the strangling came after the blow and then it became visa -versa. I believe it was in the first part of that doc that there are little half moon scratches around her neck as though she fought the cord around her neck. I obviously don't know these people, but it is hard to get a mental picture of anyone of these people finishing her off and dealing with her struggling to finish the job. To digress, I saw a show on 48 hours( or one of those shows )where a child molester (female ) hid under the bed of a teenager for months and came out to molest her at night and the parents did not know about it for years. The house was no where near the size of the Rs. I could blather on and on. A 20 year old case about total strangers is driving me nuts. No matter who did it, I just don't see any justice for JBR in the offing. Tactful responses appreciated. I have been on some sites where people are beyond hostile with each other!! People stay pretty decent on WS.