What's eating you alive re this case?

[Tortoise]

I can already feel the backlash coming.........this is what's eating me alive........I keep reviewing things and several days ago I would have bet my life savings that RDI........now, welI do think there is a possibility an intruder did it. Here's why. .......the blow to the head rendered her unconscious, but the outward injury was not visible. If BDI and alerted his folks, I would have thought they would have called an ambulance. And it was said at one point that the strangling came after the blow and then it became visa -versa. I believe it was in the first part of that doc that there are little half moon scratches around her neck as though she fought the cord around her neck. I obviously don't know these people, but it is hard to get a mental picture of anyone of these people finishing her off and dealing with her struggling to finish the job. To digress, I saw a show on 48 hours( or one of those shows )where a child molester (female ) hid under the bed of a teenager for months and came out to molest her at night and the parents did not know about it for years. The house was no where near the size of the Rs. I could blather on and on. A 20 year old case about total strangers is driving me nuts. No matter who did it, I just don't see any justice for JBR in the offing. Tactful responses appreciated. I have been on some sites where people are beyond hostile with each other!! People stay pretty decent on WS.

Once you are certain (as I am) that Patsy wrote the ransom note, the intruder theory goes out the window. My belief after much thought, is that this crime stemmed from sexual molestation. That is why medical treatment was not sought.

 

[kanzz]

I can already feel the backlash coming.........this is what's eating me alive........I keep reviewing things and several days ago I would have bet my life savings that RDI........now, welI do think there is a possibility an intruder did it. Here's why. .......the blow to the head rendered her unconscious, but the outward injury was not visible. If BDI and alerted his folks, I would have thought they would have called an ambulance. And it was said at one point that the strangling came after the blow and then it became visa -versa. I believe it was in the first part of that doc that there are little half moon scratches around her neck as though she fought the cord around her neck. I obviously don't know these people, but it is hard to get a mental picture of anyone of these people finishing her off and dealing with her struggling to finish the job. To digress, I saw a show on 48 hours( or one of those shows )where a child molester (female ) hid under the bed of a teenager for months and came out to molest her at night and the parents did not know about it for years. The house was no where near the size of the Rs. I could blather on and on. A 20 year old case about total strangers is driving me nuts. No matter who did it, I just don't see any justice for JBR in the offing. Tactful responses appreciated. I have been on some sites where people are beyond hostile with each other!! People stay pretty decent on WS.

Welcome!
The AR doesn't call the marks on the neck "scratches". So, they're not. They're petechiae.
There were only 3 other people in the house that night.
And the discussion of IDI isn't allowed here any more. Just trying to be helpful.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-The-3-People-in-the-House-when-JonBenet-Died

 

[CoreyRocks]

I do believe PR is the author of that RN. All others whose handwriting samples were obtained have been excluded - except her. As for her state of mind - we can only guess. If BDI all as I suspect, and then she did the staging and the undoing, she would most likely have been working through some denial and anger as well. That denial level might have been pretty high. Some things are just too surreal for the mind to deal with it at the time.

She was focused on protecting her only remaining kid and she was doing that with purpose. Writing that RN had to have taken some time. If just copying it alone takes at least 20 minutes, composing it would have taken at least an hour, I'd think. By then, she was wearing blinders. This was her only focus.

We only have her word about where it was "found". And frankly, I don't believe it for one minute.

Just like we only have JR's words how JonBenet was when he "found" her. Imho he put her there how else would he know she was under the blanket. Yet another ball that was dropped in the investigation .... no way JR should have touched her, let alone moved her. Moo.

 

[bethanna2004]

Oops, sorry about that! I have been on so many different threads it gets confusing. I appreciate the posts whether they be on the JBR site or regarding other victims. I have learned quite a few things about forensics. Anyway, Have a good day and I'll keep checking back and may post because I'll probably change my mind........again..........

 

[PositiveLight]

I can already feel the backlash coming.........this is what's eating me alive........I keep reviewing things and several days ago I would have bet my life savings that RDI........now, welI do think there is a possibility an intruder did it. Here's why. .......the blow to the head rendered her unconscious, but the outward injury was not visible. If BDI and alerted his folks, I would have thought they would have called an ambulance. And it was said at one point that the strangling came after the blow and then it became visa -versa. I believe it was in the first part of that doc that there are little half moon scratches around her neck as though she fought the cord around her neck. I obviously don't know these people, but it is hard to get a mental picture of anyone of these people finishing her off and dealing with her struggling to finish the job. To digress, I saw a show on 48 hours( or one of those shows )where a child molester (female ) hid under the bed of a teenager for months and came out to molest her at night and the parents did not know about it for years. The house was no where near the size of the Rs. I could blather on and on. A 20 year old case about total strangers is driving me nuts. No matter who did it, I just don't see any justice for JBR in the offing. Tactful responses appreciated. I have been on some sites where people are beyond hostile with each other!! People stay pretty decent on WS.

I also questioned the fingernail looking marks. But found out it's a common occurrence and it's petechiae. Some of the long term sleuths on this case taught me that. The head wound caused brain death. She may very well have only appeared dead to the parents. They didn't want to loose their remaining child and staged it to look like a crazed pedophile did it and used a "foreign" type ligature to kill her. What was really just something they probably used to hold Christmas tree boxes and such closed. It's a simple ligature and wasn't even used properly. Which ever parent applied the final ligature more than likely didn't realise that it is what actually ended her life. I do think that BR attempted to strangle her too and that is what the parents thought had occurred. They may have used the same item he possibly left around her neck loosely. I feel that's why they chose strangulation as the method of death. Because they had to make it look the same as how they found her. Only they made sure the ligature was tight and secure. The head wound I think was a shock to them probably when they found out it existed. The head wound would have been fatal eventually.
Why did BR apply a ligature too? To possibly make sure she was dead or she was gurgling, seizing or something else that freaked him out and he applied the ligature to end it. He just didn't realize he only applied it long enough to be temporary. It actually takes longer to strangle a person than most think.
I hope this makes sense? I've always been a BDI but had an issue with what appeared to be fingernail marks too.

Here's what did it for me. Regardless of which RDI, there were no signs of a break-in. Everything used in the commission of the crime was from the home. The outside and inside lights had been turned off for the first time in years. They left the outside lights on and a few inside on at all times. Neighbors noticed flashlights moving around the home for a period of time. A neighbor noted a long scream. BR was left in his room until 7am when he was shipped off to the White's home without protection either at his home or the White's. They immediately called the cops even though there were multiple threats of death to JonBenet if anyone was called. They not only called the cops, they called friends over too. Basically sealing her fate if there had been a small foreign faction. The only reason they would have made these decisions is if they knew there was no one watching the home and there was no kidnapper. It's hard to come to the obvious conclusion because we as humans don't want to believe the worst. That people are capable of such horrid things. Even children. But they are. It happens time and time again. And each time we are stunned that people do such things to people they are supposed to love. It's sad and tragic but it happens.

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[PositiveLight]

I can already feel the backlash coming.........this is what's eating me alive........I keep reviewing things and several days ago I would have bet my life savings that RDI........now, welI do think there is a possibility an intruder did it. Here's why. .......the blow to the head rendered her unconscious, but the outward injury was not visible. If BDI and alerted his folks, I would have thought they would have called an ambulance. And it was said at one point that the strangling came after the blow and then it became visa -versa. I believe it was in the first part of that doc that there are little half moon scratches around her neck as though she fought the cord around her neck. I obviously don't know these people, but it is hard to get a mental picture of anyone of these people finishing her off and dealing with her struggling to finish the job. To digress, I saw a show on 48 hours( or one of those shows )where a child molester (female ) hid under the bed of a teenager for months and came out to molest her at night and the parents did not know about it for years. The house was no where near the size of the Rs. I could blather on and on. A 20 year old case about total strangers is driving me nuts. No matter who did it, I just don't see any justice for JBR in the offing. Tactful responses appreciated. I have been on some sites where people are beyond hostile with each other!! People stay pretty decent on WS.

Oh and also the final ligature strangulation occurred 45 min -2 hours after the head injury. If it makes you feel any better I'm still learning more and more each day that I had no clue of before. And the more I learn the more it points inside the home. Unfortunately.
If you add up every single piece of evidence and how it works in the crime it does draw a straight line to the family. The most recent tell to me is when John was asked to comment in regards to the new DNA- evidence fiasco, John didn't have the time to talk. He needed to get back to work. You would think someone who swore to spend their lives finding the killer would jump at the news about the DNA. Plus add in all the fiber evidence in JonBenet's panties and on the duct tape over her mouth that was directly connected to JR and PR.
An intruder wouldn't redress her or clean her or write a long ransom note with two practice ones and leave the note and the body at the scene. It's really sad if you think about it. Had they just told the truth in the beginning, BR might have had to have required counseling which he obviously needed and that would have been it. If they had just called 911 when they found her unconscious and appearing dead. Things would have been different and they would have eventually got passed it all. Well as much as you could at least with counseling.

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[singularity]

Yeah and JOhn wouldn't rearrange the basement that morning for an intruder. Any semi-serious IDI theory must take that into consideration.

 

[PositiveLight]

Yeah and JOhn wouldn't rearrange the basement that morning for an intruder. Any semi-serious IDI theory must take that into consideration.

Exactly. Plus an innocent family would not touch obvious evidence. Such as JR closing the basement window at one point.

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[singularity]

Everything about that window is very odd to say the least. BPD never even scratched the surface on this issue. For anyone who has read the FBI's description of this case as "staging within staging" but doesn't really know what that entails, look no further than the basement window. Break one window to insinuate an intruder and then back off the issue completely, open and close another window without alerting anyone and then tell a far fetched story explaining it. The use of two windows to aim at an intruder yet do a 180 immediately.

Talk about a Ramsey jedi mind trick....

 

[Heymom]

Oops, sorry about that! I have been on so many different threads it gets confusing. I appreciate the posts whether they be on the JBR site or regarding other victims. I have learned quite a few things about forensics. Anyway, Have a good day and I'll keep checking back and may post because I'll probably change my mind........again..........

I would advise you to get a copy of James Kolar's book, "Foreign Faction" and read it from cover to cover. Many things are explained very clearly and concisely, including why there could NOT have been an intruder in the house that night/morning. From the partial DNA, it would have had to have been at least 6 people, which is preposterous. THERE WAS NO INTRUDER.

Also, the head wound came before the strangling, and many if not most of us believe that one Ramsey did both, and that JonBenet was found already dead by at least one of her parents (I happen to believe it was Patsy). In fact the medical examiner didn't even suspect the head wound until he pulled her scalp back in preparation to continue the autopsy. But the ligature around her neck was what ultimately killed her and she did not struggle against that.

 

[singularity]

That's actually the best part of Kolar's book.....the absurdity of IDI and the bizarre nature of the basement sequence. Anyone here who has not read it yet just because they aren't BDI should go ahead and read it anyways. Same with the Thomas book. Yeah he pushes PDI but he also points out how corrupt this case was from day one.

 

[Ambitioned]

I would advise you to get a copy of James Kolar's book, "Foreign Faction" and read it from cover to cover. Many things are explained very clearly and concisely, including why there could NOT have been an intruder in the house that night/morning. From the partial DNA, it would have had to have been at least 6 people, which is preposterous. THERE WAS NO INTRUDER.

Also, the head wound came before the strangling, and many if not most of us believe that one Ramsey did both, and that JonBenet was found already dead by at least one of her parents (I happen to believe it was Patsy). In fact the medical examiner didn't even suspect the head wound until he pulled her scalp back in preparation to continue the autopsy. But the ligature around her neck was what ultimately killed her and she did not struggle against that.

Did you signup to pre-order the new edition? I'm sure you did but wanted to be sure

 

[Heymom]

Did you signup to pre-order the new edition? I'm sure you did but wanted to be sure

No, I actually didn't realize he was issuing a new edition until I saw your other post. Wouldn't it be nice if he actually gave us the full run-down? I wish he could. Maybe now that he's been on CBS he's under their attorneys' umbrella?

I'll go pre-order it soon. I'd give my first edition to someone else but I kinda marked it up the last time I went through it.

I do hope he catches the typos this time around.

 

[Ambitioned]

Yes, I do believe he has CBS representation.

Which reminds me, Woody blew a lot of hot air about suing CBS if they didn't respond by October 27. A lawyer searched for me and there's nothing.

 

[kanzz]

Oops, sorry about that! I have been on so many different threads it gets confusing. I appreciate the posts whether they be on the JBR site or regarding other victims. I have learned quite a few things about forensics. Anyway, Have a good day and I'll keep checking back and may post because I'll probably change my mind........again..........

No worries. I just wanted to give you the info as quickly as possible and I hope you don't think I was being rude. I'm sometimes just very direct. As someone else mentioned, Foreign Faction is highly recommended. Available on Amazon. If you read nothing else, that's the one. I haven't read Thomas' book yet, though I've skimmed it in the Amazon "Look Inside" feature. Schiller's PMPT gave some good character background, but it's not well-written at all. Skips around far too much, imo.

 

[Tortoise]

Everything about that window is very odd to say the least. BPD never even scratched the surface on this issue. For anyone who has read the FBI's description of this case as "staging within staging" but doesn't really know what that entails, look no further than the basement window. Break one window to insinuate an intruder and then back off the issue completely, open and close another window without alerting anyone and then tell a far fetched story explaining it. The use of two windows to aim at an intruder yet do a 180 immediately.

Talk about a Ramsey jedi mind trick....

I've managed to get a screenshot of the broken glass in the basement window from the CBS program. Taken from the actual crime scene video, the cobweb was flickering in the movement of the air on the broken glass, which seems to be proof it wasn't broken that night.

 

[Ambitioned]

And the glass looks broken from the inside

 

[bethanna2004]

No worries. I just wanted to give you the info as quickly as possible and I hope you don't think I was being rude. I'm sometimes just very direct. As someone else mentioned, Foreign Faction is highly recommended. Available on Amazon. If you read nothing else, that's the one. I haven't read Thomas' book yet, though I've skimmed it in the Amazon "Look Inside" feature. Schiller's PMPT gave some good character background, but it's not well-written at all. Skips around far too much, imo.

No problem, kanzz! Actually, Foreign Faction should be arriving any day because I ordered it from Amazon. I actually discovered WS when I was researching another disappearance that happened close to my state 20 years ago. I saw the threads on JBR and have become rather obsessed. I so hope there will be some kind of justice for poor little JBR!

 

[BBB167893]

Maybe because Patsy wrote it with gloves on so her fingerprints wouldn't be found on it? They didn't want any fingerprints to be found on the ransom novella. But they just weren't thinking clearly - of course it would be NORMAL for people to pick up and handle such a note, and the fact that no fingerprints were found on the pad, pen, etc. just points straight back at them. Also maybe it was helpful in the handwriting disguise as Patsy may have been a bit clumsy wearing gloves.

That might explain a few things. Writing with gloves on does distort your writing (I found that out).

 

[BBB167893]

I can already feel the backlash coming.........this is what's eating me alive........I keep reviewing things and several days ago I would have bet my life savings that RDI........now, welI do think there is a possibility an intruder did it. Here's why. .......the blow to the head rendered her unconscious, but the outward injury was not visible. If BDI and alerted his folks, I would have thought they would have called an ambulance. And it was said at one point that the strangling came after the blow and then it became visa -versa. I believe it was in the first part of that doc that there are little half moon scratches around her neck as though she fought the cord around her neck. I obviously don't know these people, but it is hard to get a mental picture of anyone of these people finishing her off and dealing with her struggling to finish the job. To digress, I saw a show on 48 hours( or one of those shows )where a child molester (female ) hid under the bed of a teenager for months and came out to molest her at night and the parents did not know about it for years. The house was no where near the size of the Rs. I could blather on and on. A 20 year old case about total strangers is driving me nuts. No matter who did it, I just don't see any justice for JBR in the offing. Tactful responses appreciated. I have been on some sites where people are beyond hostile with each other!! People stay pretty decent on WS.

Hi, bethanna2004. To be frank, I don't know where the idea of "scratches" around the neck came from. The autopsy report was quite clear that they were petechial hemorrhages, bleeding under the skin. There was no struggling. And I agree with Tortoise: the molestation of JB made calling for help impossible.