When Baez paid the bank back wasn't that tantamount to pleading guilty?

[mitzi]

I think Kc was just acting in good faith by paying the money back to BOA. Regaurdless that there will be a trial or that there was a crirme or if it was all just a misunderstanding, showing good faith and paying BOA can only ease the pain and show a step in the right direction. I think this was a good decision on Kc part.

Yes, too bad that KC can't take Caylee's bones, and put them back together to get her daughter back...as a sign of good faith in the murder trial. Respectfully notthatsmart, but sometimes I think you are just oke: at us for a reaction. Have you read all the discovery?

 

[cyberborg]

I personally read the recent posts over concern for Amy as being more fear for KC -- that the clock is ticking, the check fraud case is proceeding to plan and, KC's goose is well cooked on this one. As the first domino falls, via guilty on check fraud then so do the others onward towards guilty of Murder and the DP looms. I think there is hope that Amy will pullout and the check fraud trial goes away to offer KC a better chance. JMHO.

The train has started to roll towards Justice for Caylee........

 

[notthatsmart]

If it were my daughter, I would say, please think of your family before you allow anyone to draw you into this mess. Is it worth it? Are you reading between the lines. Is the State using you to get to something else? Will it make any difference in the end? Haven't you and your family suffered enough?

 

[JBean]

I think Kc was just acting in good faith by paying the money back to BOA. Regaurdless that there will be a trial or that there was a crirme or if it was all just a misunderstanding, showing good faith and paying BOA can only ease the pain and show a step in the right direction. I think this was a good decision on Kc part.

I might agree with you if she paid the money back BEFORE she was caught. But I do thinkit was appropriate for her to pay the money back.

 

[noonie]

I don't think the meaning of good faith is a part of Kc's vocabulary?? What??? I mean really, she even stold money from her babys piggy bank for Heavens Sake!!!!!!!!!!!!! Need I say any more? How frightful. Poor child never had a fighting chance.

 

[Pondering Mind]

Hi, BeanE! :seeya: Remember this video of CA leaving a message to TM? The way she talks and threatens is unbelievable! Some of my favorites are:

"Don't try to pick a fight with me!"

"You betrayed me!"

"I have people out there looking for her."

"I will win!"

"Whatever you think you are gonna do, think again!"

"I told you.....to not cross the line!"

"Do not wage war against the Anthony Family because you will not win!"

"That is not a threat! That is something that is fact!"

Lol! I hope this gets played at the trial!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ll7W9QRGo9Y

Thanks for that chefmom! I think over time I had forgotten what a piece of umm... work.. Cindy is! :yes:
I mean that was nothing short of blackmail imo and her sense of ENTITLEMENT is unbelieveable OMG! :sick::sick::sick:
"Don't cross that line"!!! :thewhip: :thewhip: :thewhip:
Cindy Anthony thinks mighty highly of herself and her family imho..and that's a good thing I suppose because no one else on planet earth does....

 

[mydailyopinions]

If it were my daughter, I would say, please think of your family before you allow anyone to draw you into this mess. Is it worth it? Are you reading between the lines. Is the State using you to get to something else? Will it make any difference in the end? . Haven't you and your family suffered enough?

It will make a difference in the end. Casey will be made to suffer the consequences of her actions. I apologize, but any family who would look at AMY and tell her to think of her own family, and badger her about the decision she made to seek justice as a victim, should be ashamed of themselves.
I am not sure where you are going with this other than the conviction and having a prior record which can be brought into the murder trial...however, might I add that this could have very well been Casey's on grandmother pressing these charges for stealing from her..
Now honestly, would you tell a lonely little old woman whose husband is in a nursing home that she shouldn't press charges on anyone who stole from her knowing she lives on a fixed income?

 

[mydailyopinions]

I might agree with you if she paid the money back BEFORE she was caught. But I do thinkit was appropriate for her to pay the money back.

She didn't pay the money back though, Baez did.
This is what gripes me to the core..
If she was trying to show any good faith, you would have thought that when she was released from jail, (since she wasn't concerned about Caylee) she would have given this money back to Amy with an apology..
No, you see, the thing is, she was sorry before she was released, but as soon as Amy filed the charges....the hell with her....Casey would have rather spit on her than give her a dime!
It wasn't good faith that it was paid back...it was Baez trying to get the case thrown out or done away with..

 

[Pondering Mind]

If it were my daughter, I would say, please think of your family before you allow anyone to draw you into this mess. Is it worth it? Are you reading between the lines. Is the State using you to get to something else? Will it make any difference in the end? . Haven't you and your family suffered enough?

well notthatsmart, respectfully, I believe (moo only) that you would be the exception (by far) rather than the rule IMVHO. (thank goodness) One thing I have learned in life and always tried to teach my kids when they were growing up...It ain't all about me (or you) sometimes you do things for no other reason than because it's just the right thing to do, ya know?

 

[Pondering Mind]

She didn't pay the money back though, Baez did.
This is what gripes me to the core..
If she was trying to show any good faith, you would have thought that when she was released from jail, (since she wasn't concerned about Caylee) she would have given this money back to Amy with an apology..
No, you see, the thing is, she was sorry before she was released, but as soon as Amy filed the charges....the hell with her....Casey would have rather spit on her than give her a dime!
It wasn't good faith that it was paid back...it was Baez trying to get the case thrown out or done away with..

me too! I don't believe that KC could have given 2 flips whether it was ever paid or not.

 

[cyberborg]

If it were my daughter, I would say, please think of your family before you allow anyone to draw you into this mess. Is it worth it? Are you reading between the lines. Is the State using you to get to something else? Will it make any difference in the end? Haven't you and your family suffered enough?

You have every right to take that approach and view on crimes and your family's victimization (in this scenario) but that it what is hurting society today, that less and less people have the courage and willingness to get involved, inform or, press charges and deal with criminals. Nip it in the bud.

In gang infested Los Angeles and Chicago gang members are empowered because when they kill people on a weekly basis (usually innocents, children) no-one will inform on them never mind testify. It is enabling the criminal and causing our society and its safety to unravel in a downward spiral.

My goodness, there are even those who witness a brutal crime directly and do not intervene or call 911!!!!

What has this world come to when we choose to retire to our homes and not get involved in justice --- dealing with criminals so we can set good standards and make the neighborhoods and streets safer for our children and our childrens children?

You seem to be basically saying, because KC went on to murder her child in a completely other set of charges and trial you would not want your family involved in bringing her to justice on check fraud which ---- if it had happened months sooner may have prevented the murder of Caylee? You are compromising what is right for one case because of the other.

So sad to say, because more and more people are passive and do not want to get involved then criminals become more emboldened and more enabled and commit far worse crimes as a result. What a future we face as we passively let criminals intimidate and impact our future lives. IMHO.

 

[BeanE]

If it were my daughter, I would say, please think of your family before you allow anyone to draw you into this mess. Is it worth it? Are you reading between the lines. Is the State using you to get to something else? Will it make any difference in the end? . Haven't you and your family suffered enough?

What a vile thing that would be to do to one's own daughter. She would be victimized and betrayed by a thief and a fraud who she thought was her friend, and rather than receive the support, encouragement, and comfort she needed to heal from that violation, she would instead be victimized again by her own mother's cruelty, and have a another additional trauma to have to deal with.

Just vile.

 

[cecybeans]

well notthatsmart, respectfully, I believe (moo only) that you would be the exception (by far) rather than the rule IMVHO. (thank goodness) One thing I have learned in life and always tried to teach my kids when they were growing up...It ain't all about me (or you) sometimes you do things for no other reason than because it's just the right thing to do, ya know?

ITA. There is a fine line between loving someone and enabling them. One look at what we already know about KC from her actions and testimony from family and friends is that the disregard she showed for others never went away just because her family made excuses - it only escalated.

A lot of kids today are holding their parents hostage because many parents think that loving their kids is being their friend and giving them whatever they want - a lot of which is fueled by guilt. Schools are under pressure not to make any kid feel like a failure so they pass them even when they don't deserve it. Kids are only taught to deal with happy things which is why many of them never develop enough character to handle adversity. Everything is sanitized so that they are the center of the universe, which is a power no human being should have.

Many kids act out this sense of entitlement by not doing anything difficult and still expecting instant positive results. Sometimes doing the right thing is unpleasant on the surface, but it gives satisfaction later, and certainly a clear consciene. Helping to deliver consequences to someone who is a habitual thief and never had to truly answer for their selfishness is something that I'm sorry AH has to be part of, but if people don't learn their lessons at home, then they may have to learn them in the world. And if they keep repeating the same mistakes that hurt others, then they have to pay the price. It's the old "don't do the crime, if you can't do the time" cliche.

I just cannot fathom that someone who has repeatedly victimized her family and friends should be so protected and sheltered. Discipline or punishment should be delivered with compassion and not anger, but it should still be delivered.

If KC actually paid AH back (and we know JB is behind it), I would still say she is simply manipulating AH the same way she manipulates her family to protect her and do what she wants. KC apparently thinks the laws of nature and physics should be bent so she never has to grow up and she can get special rules the rest of us don't have. It looks like she has conned her parents into believing that, but I don't think the rest of society would agree.

 

[wonders]

If it were my daughter, I would say, please think of your family before you allow anyone to draw you into this mess. Is it worth it? Are you reading between the lines. Is the State using you to get to something else? Will it make any difference in the end? Haven't you and your family suffered enough?

With all due respect notthatsmart.
Amy was drawn into this mess when KC wiped out every last penny she had including $400 in cash.
Why would Amy have to think about her family? If she were my daughter it would be worth seeing pride in herself doing the right thing.
Yes the state is using Amy because God knows KC's family didn't step up to the plate to put a stop to her stealing them blind. ( I do have personal experince in family stealing from family).
The above is my opinion only.

Please tell me what you would do if someone did the same to you.

 

[Pondering Mind]

You have every right to take that approach and view on crimes and your family's victimization (in this scenario) but that it what is hurting society today, that less and less people have the courage and willingness to get involved, inform or, press charges and deal with criminals. Nip it in the bud.

In gang infested Los Angeles and Chicago gang members are empowered because when they kill people on a weekly basis (usually innocents, children) no-one will inform on them never mind testify. It is enabling the criminal and causing our society and its safety to unravel in a downward spiral.

My goodness, there are even those who witness a brutal crime directly and do not intervene or call 911!!!!

What has this world come to when we choose to retire to our homes and not get involved in justice --- dealing with criminals so we can set good standards and make the neighborhoods and streets safer for our children and our childrens children?

You seem to be basically saying, because KC went on to murder her child in a completely other set of charges and trial you would not want your family involved in bringing her to justice on check fraud which ---- if it had happened months sooner may have prevented the murder of Caylee? You are compromising what is right for one case because of the other.

So sad to say, because more and more people are passive and do not want to get involved then criminals become more emboldened and more enabled and commit far worse crimes as a result. What a future we face as we passively let criminals itimidate and impact our future lives. IMHO.

cyber, the WHOLE post was excellent and absolutely on point! I bolded the one paragraph only to say that is so true...and can't be emphasized enough! IF one wants criminals and the crimes they commit to rule our lives and everything in it any more than they already do, then turn a blind eye or make it easier on yourself and don't get involved. While you are at it..teach your children the same. That's a world I don't want to know...

 

[Soju]

I don't think Casey had anything to do with paying the bank back. First, she has no money. (unless you count the $ from caylee's pictures). Second, I highly doubt that repaying the bank would've been her idea, either from a legal strategy standpoint, or a 'good faith' because-it-was-the-right-thing-to-do standpoint. I just see it as a lame attempt by JB to somehow get the bank to drop the charges. It was strategic, nothing more. Everything we have seen and heard up to this point in this case points straight to it.

The 'good faith' thing just blew my mind. When in her life has Casey done anything in good faith? Anyone gotta link?

 

[Imbackon]

I think Kc was just acting in good faith by paying the money back to BOA. Regaurdless that there will be a trial or that there was a crirme or if it was all just a misunderstanding, showing good faith and paying BOA can only ease the pain and show a step in the right direction. I think this was a good decision on Kc part.

I can't help but notice the dichotomy between your signature line about wanting the "truth" and saying Amy shouldn't take part in the trial about her own stolen money. She should just tell the truth right?
The check forgery trial is about getting at the truth as well.

 

[Pondering Mind]

ITA. There is a fine line between loving someone and enabling them. One look at what we already know about KC from her actions and testimony from family and friends is that the disregard she showed for others never went away just because her family made excuses - it only escalated.

A lot of kids today are holding their parents hostage because many parents think that loving their kids is being their friend and giving them whatever they want - a lot of which is fueled by guilt. Schools are under pressure not to make any kid feel like a failure so they pass them even when they don't deserve it. Kids are only taught to deal with happy things which is why many of them never develop enough character to handle adversity. Everything is sanitized so that they are the center of the universe, which is a power no human being should have.

Many kids act out this sense of entitlement by not doing anything difficult and still expecting instant positive results. Sometimes doing the right thing is unpleasant on the surface, but it gives satisfaction later, and certainly a clear consciene. Helping to deliver consequences to someone who is a habitual thief and never had to truly answer for their selfishness is something that I'm sorry AH has to be part of, but if people don't learn their lessons at home, then they may have to learn them in the world. And if they keep repeating the same mistakes that hurt others, then they have to pay the price. It's the old "don't do the crime, if you can't do the time" cliche.

I just cannot fathom that someone who has repeatedly victimized her family and friends should be so protected and sheltered. Discipline or punishment should be delivered with compassion and not anger, but it should still be delivered.

If KC actually paid AH back (and we know JB is behind it), I would still say she is simply manipulating AH the same way she manipulates her family to protect her and do what she wants. KC apparently thinks the laws of nature and physics should be bent so she never has to grow up and she can get special rules the rest of us don't have. It looks like she has conned her parents into believing that, but I don't think the rest of society would agree.

EXACTLY! And as a parent I had to watch myself at times because I would catch myself doing the same thing. Not holding them responsible for something that I should have, either out of guilt because I was a single mom(as you said) or because I just didn't have time to deal with it OR since my oldest child died of SIDS, I let alot slide just because I was terrified something would happen to one of them and our last words would be in anger. It held me hostage for years, then it dawned on me one day that I was not doing them any favors preparing them for life..sooo. It was tough to do I tell ya and I never did perfect it, lol...but they are 24 and 33 now and I couldn't be more proud!

 

[Soju]

EXACTLY! And as a parent I had to watch myself at times because I would catch myself doing the same thing. Not holding them responsible for something that I should have, either out of guilt because I was a single mom(as you said) or because I just didn't have time to deal with it OR since my oldest child died of SIDS, I let alot slide just because I was terrified something would happen to one of them and our last words would be in anger. It held me hostage for years, then it dawned on me one day that I was not doing them any favors preparing them for life..sooo. It was tough to do I tell ya and I never did perfect it, lol...but they are 24 and 33 now and I couldn't be more proud!

Great post, Pondering! So sorry to hear about your oldest.

Reminds me of my mom when I was little. I'd throw a fit about something or other and yell, "You're not the boss of me!"

She'd just laugh and say, "wanna bet?"

 

[rhornsby]

My first reaction to reading the title of this thread was that Jose Baez's payment to Bank of America was inadmissible against Casey Anthony because it was nothing more than an offer to compromise "BAC Case Number 080718-130639," which is a civil matter. Thus the settlement evidence would be inadmissible under section 90.408, Florida Statutes. (Compromises and Offers to Compromise).

However, the caselaw is not supporting my initial thoughts. See Johnson v. State, 625 So. 2d 1297 (Fla. 1st DCA 1993). See also State v. Walters, 719 So. 2d 1027 (Fla. 3d DCA 1998). Both of which hold:

Neither of these rationales would support the exclusion of offers to pay [restitution] to crime victims [from being admissible in criminal cases] since the decision to prosecute rests with the State, rather than the victim. We therefore conclude that the provisions of section 90.409 are confined to the civil setting and have no application to criminal cases.

Now both of the cited cases (and only ones I could find) involved the defendant personally (not through an attorney) making direct offers to pay restitution in a criminal case, but trying to invoke the protection of 90.408, which only applies to civil cases.

So with that said, I think Baez could argue that his payment only applied to the civil case involving Bank of America's claim under "BAC Case Number 080718-130639."

And even if the judge rejected that thinly veiled technicality (which I would argue as well). I still think the judge would exclude evidence of the payment because Baez paid it personally with no indication his client initiated the payment - thus the adverse inference could not be attributed to her.

And my final opinion would be that Judge Strickland would not allow evidence of the payment in for the last two reasons, with the latter being the stronger of the two.

Very interesting legal issue.