Where Do You Think Teresa Halbach was Killed?

[Limaes]

Nope, not even on the key they found in the trailer. :thinking:

Because Avery wiped it off.

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[Limaes]

Then She WAS NOT killed in that trailer!

IMO and I'm not all caught up on all this but dosent his BIL live near HIM? And he saw her leaving that day?
or am I wrong.....
This is where they should have been looking!

Technically, in the garage but what that poor girl would have went through inside that trailer, she was probably mentally gone already.

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[Limaes]

LOL God led her ? lol
Now honestly would u take your daughter and go out there wandering around alone in that salvage lot?

The Rav 4 was found in close proximity to the main buildings and entrance to which she and her adult daughter came in. <snip> If you read her testimony you will find that out.

If she didn't find the Rav 4, he just may have gotten away with it. She is a hero of this case which is why Avery's supporters mock her and accuse her.

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[ZOOL]

<modsnip> However, the reason they didn't definitively find her DNA in his trailer, is the same reason her blood was found on the sideboard of her car and not the carpet...she was laying on something e.g tarp, plastic etc. At least two shots to the head and the blood doesn't get on the carpet?

The same thing she was layed on in the car is the same one used in the bedroom imo. No one has ever stated she went traipsing all through the trailer. His bedroom was within spitting distance of the front door and she was carried out that door still wrapped in whatever it was.

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Limaes ~ Do you think that she even made it into the bedroom? I have a feeling that the glasses Wiegert found in Avery's driveway indicate that she may have been assaulted outside, and that perhaps Avery's usual, physical attack on a woman he desires suddenly led to an asphyxiation scenario. Then from there Teresa ended inside his garage. This assault may have been precipitated by a conversation surrounding Avery's inflated ego due to his expectation of winning the civil suit, his braggadocio, a proposal, then a rejection from TH, and suddenly an explosion of rage. Do we have any information regarding the glasses? I recall only mention of "broken glasses". If they are sunglasses, then I strongly believe that those found-broken-glasses play a significant part in Teresa's death. Many women wear sunglasses in their cars traveling to and fro.

 

[Limaes]

Limaes ~ Do you think that she even made it into the bedroom? I have a feeling that the glasses Wiegert found in Avery's driveway indicate that she may have been assaulted outside, and that perhaps Avery's usual, physical attack on a woman he desires suddenly led to an asphyxiation scenario. Then from there Teresa ended inside his garage. This assault may have been precipitated by a conversation surrounding Avery's inflated ego due to his expectation of winning the civil suit, his braggadocio, a proposal, then a rejection from TH, and suddenly an explosion of rage. Do we have any information regarding the glasses? I recall only mention of "broken glasses". If they are sunglasses, then I strongly believe that those found-broken-glasses play a significant part in Teresa's death. Many women wear sunglasses in their cars traveling to and fro.

Re: the glasses. I know they collected them because I was just reading about them today. Requires further research I think lol

The reason that I think she made it to the door is because BoD seen her walking on his driveway headed to the trailer door. He didn't hear any screams which makes me feel that she had a gun to her face. Basically, she knocks on the door, he answers and she gives him the paperwork. He goes and puts it on his desk and instead of bringing money to.pay her, he brings his gun.

I do think he was feeling immortal because of the exoneration and the positive attention that came with it. However, in the days and weeks leading up to that day, he had been sitting in on the depositions. This had to have had an effect on him. I believe it was all reaching boiling point and Teresa paid the highest price. He escalated from rape to murder.


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[Hippiemomof5]

Seriously? You think the cops follow innuendo instead of her last known whereabouts? And phone calls?

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Phone calls RH we are taking about ALTERED! And hacked her account to even print! Before the RAV4 was found, SB and RH should have been interviewed as serious suspects.

 

[Limaes]

Phone calls RH we are taking about ALTERED! And hacked her account to even print! Before the RAV4 was found, SB and RH should have been interviewed as serious suspects.

I don't agree with that at all.

RH did not alter anything. That is pure gossip. If one of my long time friends were missing, I too would do anything I can to locate them. If any of their numbers were amongst the last she spoke to, then they would have become suspects. But they were NOT.

The last person she spoke to was told she was on her way to Avery's, not Hillegas or Bloedorn or Czech. It was Avery's and whaddya know...that is where they found her!

 

[Eileen730]

I don't agree with that at all.

RH did not alter anything. That is pure gossip. If one of my long time friends were missing, I too would do anything I can to locate them. If any of their numbers were amongst the last she spoke to, then they would have become suspects. But they were NOT.

The last person she spoke to was told she was on her way to Avery's, not Hillegas or Bloedorn or Czech. It was Avery's and whaddya know...that is where they found her!

But If she was murdered there as BD described this murder there would be EVIDENCE ( DNA HAIR BLOOD FIBERS) Something!
But there is nothing...
I do not believe Steven Avery killed this woman.
But that's JMO

 

[Eileen730]

What if this woman was found murdered by LE in her automobile.
LE figures hey this is a good opportunity to get Avery off our case.

I do believe SA was framed the lawsuit was going to take its toll on many of that countys finest .
Lives would have changed. Monies and paychecks and jobs lost. These ppl had a lot to loose.
Very easy to frame.

JMVOO

 

[missy1974]

Sturdivant (DCI -Arson squad ) and Sippel (Caso) also found bones. All the documents and transcripts dispel the myth that MCSO found every piece of evidence.

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We weren't discussing who found every piece of evidence. You said that the Arson guy found the first bone, when in fact, it was Sgt. Jost with MCSO who did. I never said that Jost went through everything by himself and found every piece of bone. Sturdivant, who was part of the Narcotics Bureau for the previous 2 years, not the the Arson Bureau and he wasn't there in either capacity (he was also part of the Financial Crimes unit at one time too, and I don't think they had him there to check the financials). He was there, like all the others, searching vehicles, etc. and actually stumbled upon Jost who was standing by a red flag.

Geesh and ya know, come to think of it, someone with experience with Arson should have known to take photo's.. but nope! I've still yet to see evidence of bones in that fire pit.

 

[missy1974]

Why should they be suspects?

SB was questioned twice and RH was not there the first time.

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According to Ryan, he was there. It's in his testimony. He went there when SB got off work and called him and asked him to come over. He was there for a few hours before another friend showed up. He was calling her friends and going through her paperwork and logging into her Cingular Report.

Page 188, Day 2

Q. All right. By the time that Calumet county investigators arrived, I take it you guys were pretty concerned about Teresa's well being, where she was?

A. Yes.

Q. And you knew that it was important that you provide as much information, as accurate information as you could?

A. Yes.

Q. Did the police interview you and Scott together, or did they put you in separate rooms when they talked to you, or how did they do that?

A. I believe we were -- I believe we were in the same room.

 

[missy1974]

What do you mean by "in depth"?

RH told them when he last saw her, what they had talked about, their relationship history, her personality traits, how long she had been back home. Not sure how much more he was supposed to do.

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Lets continue.... page 189 Day 2

Q. Okay. Now, did the investigators ask you any questions about the nature of your relationship with Teresa?

A. Yeah.

Q. And they learned that you were a former boyfriend, stayed good friends with her?

A. Well, I believe I just said that I was a friend of hers. I don't think I mentioned that I was an ex-boyfriend.

Q. Okay. And they didn't pursue that and ask if you had ever had anything more than a friendship is that what you are saying?

A. I believe so. It came out eventually, I just didn't feel that it mattered.

(Court reporter coughing, asked him to repeat.)

Q. Let me try again.

A. Ask it again, please.

Q. Did the police ever probe further and ask if you had -- the nature of your relationship with her beyond whether there was ever anything more than friendship?

A. I don't think they really probed into that. I mean, I don't remember when it came out or who was the one that mentioned that we used to date.

Q. Okay. But it wasn't talked about that night?

A. I don't believe so.


Reminds me of the show I watched last night, I think it was Criminal Minds Beyond Borders.... the husband goes to check on wife, blood is everywhere and she is missing, her body is recovered, when he is questioned he omits the fact that he had an affair and his wife filed for divorce. Guilty or not, omitting the facts sure made him look guilty. JMO

 

[missy1974]

The lack of DNA is something that Avery supporter's like to crow about. However, the reason they didn't definitively find her DNA in his trailer, is the same reason her blood was found on the sideboard of her car and not the carpet...she was laying on something e.g tarp, plastic etc. At least two shots to the head and the blood doesn't get on the carpet?

The same thing she was layed on in the car is the same one used in the bedroom imo. No one has ever stated she went traipsing all through the trailer. His bedroom was within spitting distance of the front door and she was carried out that door still wrapped in whatever it was.

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I'm a justice supporter and I crow about it because it just doesn't make sense! No spatter from a gun shot? Not even on the gun itself? that just seems unreasonable IMO

Have you ever considered that the RAV4 had a mat in the back that was no longer there? I have read speculation that this is why the seats may have been propped up so the mat could be pulled out. Looking at pictures of the rear of the RAV4 there seems to be a line or indentation where a mat could have been.

 

[ZOOL]

[...]
Q. Okay. And they didn't pursue that and ask if you had ever had anything more than a friendship is that what you are saying?

A. I believe so. It came out eventually, I just didn't feel that it mattered.
_______________________________

[...] Guilty or not, omitting the facts sure made him look guilty. JMO

Sure seems to be contagious with the Court Reporter too. :whoosh: LOL

 

[missy1974]

Yes, she asked to speak away from the others because they did not know about BC. So there goes the jealousy theory some of Avery's supporters like to throw around.

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I don't see any proof that no one else knew about BC, I see a friend of hers wanting to respect TH's privacy about her sex life, and TH and BC did have mutual friends, maybe she didn't want to voice her concerns about BC with a friend sitting there.

It actually adds to the jealousy theory IMO, there was something there to be jealous about.

 

[missy1974]

Limaes ~ Do you think that she even made it into the bedroom? I have a feeling that the glasses Wiegert found in Avery's driveway indicate that she may have been assaulted outside, and that perhaps Avery's usual, physical attack on a woman he desires suddenly led to an asphyxiation scenario. Then from there Teresa ended inside his garage. This assault may have been precipitated by a conversation surrounding Avery's inflated ego due to his expectation of winning the civil suit, his braggadocio, a proposal, then a rejection from TH, and suddenly an explosion of rage. Do we have any information regarding the glasses? I recall only mention of "broken glasses". If they are sunglasses, then I strongly believe that those found-broken-glasses play a significant part in Teresa's death. Many women wear sunglasses in their cars traveling to and fro.

I have never read anything else about those glasses, were they tested? If they were TH's, surely at least those would have had some of her DNA, no? Or wait.... did SA wipe that away too before leaving them on the ground?

 

[Hippiemomof5]

Wasn't the dna found on the bullet in the garage NOT blood?

I'm very confused how someone can believe KK's version of events but be ok with no dna anywhere. Did they even attempt to collect dna!? The bed sheets weren't tested from what Ive read. Handcuffs contained no TH dna, there were no markings on the bed posts... And picture SA dragging or carrying TH back into that room... Did they look for scratches or dna along the walls, on the doorjam, anywhere between back door and in and around the bedroom? You don't think she would have kicked him and anything she could reach? Or flail her arms and grab and walls or molding?? If SA did kill her, I don't think it happened in the trailer at all.

 

[missy1974]

Wasn't the dna found on the bullet in the garage NOT blood?

I'm very confused how someone can believe KK's version of events but be ok with no dna anywhere. Did they even attempt to collect dna!? The bed sheets weren't tested from what Ive read. Handcuffs contained no TH dna, there were no markings on the bed posts... And picture SA dragging or carrying TH back into that room... Did they look for scratches or dna along the walls, on the doorjam, anywhere between back door and in and around the bedroom? You don't think she would have kicked him and anything she could reach? Or flail her arms and grab and walls or molding?? If SA did kill her, I don't think it happened in the trailer at all.

IF SA is guilty of this murder, there is no way, no how it happened the way KK narrated it. There is just no facts to substantiate it. If someone came alone with a theory that was actually believable, I may fall off the fence about him, but as of yet, there has been nothing.

IIRC they literally took the walls out of that trailer, mouldings, drains, pipes .... still NO TH DNA found. I remember reading the lawsuit that Roland filed against the county wanting to be compensated for all the damage they did, from what I remember, he couldn't even live in the trailer, even if he wanted too because of the damage.

The DNA on the bullet, I don't think it was tested for blood because there was so very little to be tested, they didn't want to compromise it (I know... try to keep from laughing :giggle: ), she had one shot at that test, and testing it for blood wasn't one of them IIRC (I don't feel like looking it up haha)

 

[ZOOL]

I have never read anything else about those glasses, were they tested? If they were TH's, surely at least those would have had some of her DNA, no? Or wait.... did SA wipe that away too before leaving them on the ground?

I too was disappointed to see that CASO's lead detective Wiegert did not follow up on the glasses. Of course, that seems to be about par for his expertise. After all, he waited 13 mos. before he bothered to pursue George Zipperer's Madison, Wisc., roofing alibi. But..if Avery grabbed TH from behind in a snatching bear hug or something similar, it's quite possible that there would be no DNA from him. You are correct though that DNA for Teresa would be present. A good forensic investigator ought to have had much more expertise that Wiegert.

And since I am bad-mouthing him, I may as well say "ditto" about Fassbender. I do not blame Brendan for being absolutely mind-boggled every time Fassbender opened his mouth to ask a question. I would have said: "huhhh? Whaat? Is there a sentence in there? Are you asking me something? Or just excited to hear the sound of your own voice?"

Of course, I doubt Brendan would have been able to get that many words out before Fassbender rattled off: "OK, and we urge ya ta, you know, talk to us and tell us, you know, your version again, and what we, correct me if I'm wrong, what we told that is you wanted to speak with us, ah just to, you know, talk about some clarification of earlier statements. Um some areas where it may have been a little cloudy. Now Mark and I both know probably some of those areas. Ah, we've, we've had obviously an opportunity to look at the evidence and we're familiar with the evidence in the case. And even your last statement, there's some areas that we, we know ah that you may want to address, and you're probably gonna do that because they don't, they don't seem ta necessarily add up. Do you understand that?"

I would have said "huhh? NO."

 

[missy1974]

I too was disappointed to see that CASO's lead detective Wiegert did not follow up on the glasses. Of course, that seems to be about par for his expertise. After all, he waited 13 mos. before he bothered to pursue George Zipperer's Madison, Wisc., roofing alibi. But..if Avery grabbed TH from behind in a snatching bear hug or something similar, it's quite possible that there would be no DNA from him. You are correct though that DNA for Teresa would be present. A good forensic investigator ought to have had much more expertise that Wiegert.

And since I am bad-mouthing him, I may as well say "ditto" about Fassbender. I do not blame Brendan for being absolutely mind-boggled every time Fassbender opened his mouth to ask a question. I would have said: "huhhh? Whaat? Is there a sentence in there? Are you asking me something? Or just excited to hear the sound of your own voice?"

Of course, I doubt Brendan would have been able to get that many words out before Fassbender rattled off: "OK, and we urge ya ta, you know, talk to us and tell us, you know, your version again, and what we, correct me if I'm wrong, what we told that is you wanted to speak with us, ah just to, you know, talk about some clarification of earlier statements. Um some areas where it may have been a little cloudy. Now Mark and I both know probably some of those areas. Ah, we've, we've had obviously an opportunity to look at the evidence and we're familiar with the evidence in the case. And even your last statement, there's some areas that we, we know ah that you may want to address, and you're probably gonna do that because they don't, they don't seem ta necessarily add up. Do you understand that?"

I would have said "huhh? NO."

:laughing:

I got to the end of your first paragraph and read the BBM above... and my first thought was... well duhhh that's why they brought Fassbender in, right? But that doesn't seem to work out so well for them either LOL

Your post made me laugh LOL And really.... I give you kudo's for finding faults in the investigator's even if you think SA is guilty as heck! I believe that Strang/Buting might have had some good ideas or theories and I get it that they may have been limited by the rules of the court, but there are some things that were just missed IMO I definitely see their faults.... and IIRC you did too


ETA: Is it possible that Colborn was given the job of writing up the report for the glasses and he just hasn't had time to do it yet? :giggle: