Where Precisely Do You Think Caylee Died?

[countzero]

I am so there with you. Even after all this time, I can't "understand" how she could have done this to her daughter. No, I don't think it was an accident...too late for that excuse. But, it just is incomprehnsible to me how she did all this. The SA should read your post...especially the ending. It would make for a great opening statement.

We can't apply our logic to individuals who are illogical to begin with.

 

[RR0004]

We can't apply our logic to individuals who are illogical to begin with.

Oh how I know! But, that's just the thing...the whole family came up with this pretty dang quickly...Casey with her story...the As with their skewed version of the events. Me thinks that there WAS a whole lot of talking going on. The telephone lines between the As and Baez must have been burning those early days. I think there were just a few "honest" moments from the start. I don't think they cared how "illogical" they sounded...it sure did deflect from the truth. Even going on national tv to "supposedly" keep Caylee's name out there. They knew Caylee wasn't all over the country. They, personally, did not follow up on any of those leads...with the exception of the last California sighting...and well, we know that was just an excuse to explain their appearance on LKL (IMO). Wow! I just had an "AHA" moment: it's NEVER been about Caylee!! So I have to ask now, just when did they know what Casey had done? That very first night? I think so. Cindy claimed she didn't have "enough time" to ask her daughter questions. BS!

 

[countzero]

Oh how I know! But, that's just the thing...the whole family came up with this pretty dang quickly...Casey with her story...the As with their skewed version of the events. Me thinks that there WAS a whole lot of talking going on. The telephone lines between the As and Baez must have been burning those early days. I think there was just a few "honest" moments from the start. I don't think they cared how "illogical" they sounded...it sure did deflect from the truth. Even going on national tv to "supposedly" keep Caylee's name out there. They knew Caylee wasn't all over the country. They, personally, did not follow up on any of those leads...with the exception of the last California sighting...and well, we know that was just an excuse to explain their appearance on LKL (IMO). Wow! I just had an "AHA" moment: it's NEVER been about Caylee!! So I have to ask now, just when did they know what Casey had done? That very first night? I think so. Cindy claimed she didn't have "enough time" to ask her daughter questions. BS!

Exactly. Within the first 24 hours of Caylee being reported missing they had;

Enough time to sit at the computer tower and type away, building the Caylee is Missing myspace page.
Enough time to text everyone in KC's phone book.
Enough time to field the reply messages.
Enough time to answer the phones calls coming in.
Enough time to create and/or expand on the "Caylee was kidnapped" story.
Enough time for CA to field media requests.
Enough time for GA to hitch his wagon to the KFN and later drive that signage around time.
Enough time to attempt to get down the character acting he and CA were going to perform in public.

BUT NOT ENOUGH TIME WHEN KC WAS HOME IN THE MORNING AND AFTERNOON OF JUNE 16, 08 TO GET KC TO PROFESS THE TRUTH TO LE WHERE CAYLEE WAS. :furious:

Their newest motto is defect and protect at any and all costs.

 

[Themis]

<Snipped.> Wow! I just had an "AHA" moment: it's NEVER been about Caylee!! So I have to ask now, just when did they know what Casey had done? That very first night? I think so. Cindy claimed she didn't have "enough time" to ask her daughter questions. BS!

They knew. They talked to each other too, so they all knew -- first a concern, then pieces of reality they observed fit and finally it was right in their faces. Eventually, the DNA identified the body and they could no longer publically deny. It came in stages, but they all "knew" by July 16th. Before that "very first night" on July 15th when CA found KC at AL's apartment:

1. The Anthonys knew about the big blow-out fight on June 15th.
2. The Anthonys knew Caylee was not in the house from June 16th on and no one came for her clothes and things.
3. CA felt compelled to compulsively wash and re-wash bedding that had never been slept in.
4. Attempts to contact KC by digital means repeatedly failed or they were fed a line of nonsense and they knew it was nonsense about a Nanny because they knew by that time that KC had been stealing -- a lot -- and didn't have a job or money.
5. On June 24th, GA felt compelled to try to get into the trunk of a car that reeked of decomp smell (had to because it was still that bad on July 15th). You know GA and CA talked about it. He made up a lame story about tire chocks. You know he was really worried then.
6. CA wrote the poem about her missing granddaughter on July 3rd and Caylee was absent on July 4th -- a big holiday for a child and family.
7. After they picked up the car and denial of decomp was no longer possible, CA became focused and on a mission to find KC and Caylee -- she wasn't taking no for an answer from anyone. Remember how she found AH at the mall a long way away.
8. CA to KC: "What have you done."
9. CA calling in LE.
10. LA gathering all of KC's things at AL's and there was nothing there for Caylee.

Oh, for sure, IMHO, they "knew" in various stages of knowing what had happened before KC was ever arrested the first time. They never honestly and truthfully looked for Caylee because they not only knew Caylee was already dead, but they knew KC had done it. "What have you (KC) done (to Caylee)!"

 

[Leila]

Oh how I know! But, that's just the thing...the whole family came up with this pretty dang quickly...Casey with her story...the As with their skewed version of the events. Me thinks that there WAS a whole lot of talking going on. The telephone lines between the As and Baez must have been burning those early days. I think there was just a few "honest" moments from the start. I don't think they cared how "illogical" they sounded...it sure did deflect from the truth. Even going on national tv to "supposedly" keep Caylee's name out there. They knew Caylee wasn't all over the country. They, personally, did not follow up on any of those leads...with the exception of the last California sighting...and well, we know that was just an excuse to explain their appearance on LKL (IMO). Wow! I just had an "AHA" moment: it's NEVER been about Caylee!! So I have to ask now, just when did they know what Casey had done? That very first night? I think so. Cindy claimed she didn't have "enough time" to ask her daughter questions. BS!

I think both George and Cindy (and Lee) knew that something was wrong as soon as the car was found at Amscot. When Cindy picked Casey up at TL's apartment, I think she still believed Caylee was with the nanny. Later that evening when she first heard Casey's story about the nanny kidnapping Caylee, Cindy reacted by immediately calling 911, frantic to get help. At this point, I think Cindy believed Casey's story.

The next day, July 16, 2008, the police had Casey accompany them to the Sawgrass Apartments and then to the Universal Studios where Casey said she worked. It was there that Casey admitted that she didn't work at Universal Studios, and LE uncovered many lies in her story (the apartment at Sawgrass empty since Feb; no ZFG matching Casey's description; the friends she said she worked with that knew ZFG, didn't exist; etc). After LE tried to get the truth from her and she refused, she was arrested for obstruction of justice, child endangerment, and lying to police.

In one of the local media stories at the time, Cindy related that she, George, and George's sister, were monitoring the television at home expecting an Amber Alert to be issued. Cindy said they received a phone call from a friend saying, "quick turn the channel to such and such a channel, Casey's been arrested."

I think it was at that point, when they learned that Casey had been arrested, and that the police had uncovered so many lies in Casey's story, that they realized that Caylee was gone and likely deceased.

July 16, 2008 was a Wednesday. By Friday, July 18th, George and Cindy were in full cover up mode. They did an interview in their home with a local news media. In that interview they stressed the child safety in thier home - the pool ladder always being put away when not in use, the shed always being locked and only George and Cindy having keys, Casey regularly using a shovel to dig up bamboo in the back yard so Caylee wouldn't hurt her feet stepping on the shoots. These were things that would later become significant - the pool ladder, the shed, and the shovel, and they had explanations for each in advance.

So, I think it was the day after finding the car at Amscot and finding Casey at TL's apartment, that George and Cindy came to realize that Casey had lied and Caylee was gone. I think they knew then that Casey had killed Caylee.

 

[jon_burrows]

I think both George and Cindy (and Lee) knew that something was wrong as soon as the car was found at Amscot. When Cindy picked Casey up at TL's apartment, I think she still believed Caylee was with the nanny. Later that evening when she first heard Casey's story about the nanny kidnapping Caylee, Cindy reacted by immediately calling 911, frantic to get help. At this point, I think Cindy believed Casey's story.

The next day, July 16, 2008, the police had Casey accompany them to the Sawgrass Apartments and then to the Universal Studios where Casey said she worked. It was there that Casey admitted that she didn't work at Universal Studios, and LE uncovered many lies in her story (the apartment at Sawgrass empty since Feb; no ZFG matching Casey's description; the friends she said she worked with that knew ZFG, didn't exist; etc). After LE tried to get the truth from her and she refused, she was arrested for obstruction of justice, child endangerment, and lying to police.

In one of the local media stories at the time, Cindy related that she, George, and George's sister, were monitoring the television at home expecting an Amber Alert to be issued. Cindy said they received a phone call from a friend saying, "quick turn the channel to such and such a channel, Casey's been arrested."

I think it was at that point, when they learned that Casey had been arrested, and that the police had uncovered so many lies in Casey's story, that they realized that Caylee was gone and likely deceased.

July 16, 2008 was a Wednesday. By Friday, July 18th, George and Cindy were in full cover up mode. They did an interview in their home with a local news media. In that interview they stressed the child safety in thier home - the pool ladder always being put away when not in use, the shed always being locked and only George and Cindy having keys, Casey regularly using a shovel to dig up bamboo in the back yard so Caylee wouldn't hurt her feet stepping on the shoots. These were things that would later become significant - the pool ladder, the shed, and the shovel, and they had explanations for each in advance.

So, I think it was the day after finding the car at Amscot and finding Casey at TL's apartment, that George and Cindy came to realize that Casey had lied and Caylee was gone. I think they knew then that Casey had killed Caylee.

BBM by me...I remember that interview too. It seemed strange that they didn't do the obvious...go to Sawgrass and knock on every door showing pictures of Caylee.

I haven't been able to find the video but Cindy gave another interview talking about how cautious Casey was with Caylee. Cindy said Casey carried a spare key and kept it in her pocket in case she locked Caylee in the car in the Florida heat. She also said Casey wouldn't allow Caylee near smoke. We know Tony smoked in the apartment because Cindy complained of the smell of her clothes when Lee brought them home. If Casey's clothes smelled like smoke, Caylee would have too after being in his apartment.

 

[RR0004]

BBM by me...I remember that interview too. It seemed strange that they didn't do the obvious...go to Sawgrass and knock on every door showing pictures of Caylee.

I haven't been able to find the video but Cindy gave another interview talking about how cautious Casey was with Caylee. Cindy said Casey carried a spare key and kept it in her pocket in case she locked Caylee in the car in the Florida heat. She also said Casey wouldn't allow Caylee near smoke. We know Tony smoked in the apartment because Cindy complained of the smell of her clothes when Lee brought them home. If Casey's clothes smelled like smoke, Caylee would have too after being in his apartment.

Ah, but IIRC...and it was a VERY long time ago...CA said the police asked her NOT to go to SG. We talked about that for a longgggggg time here on the general threads. Wild horses wouldn't have kept me away!!

 

[magic-cat]

Oh how I know! But, that's just the thing...the whole family came up with this pretty dang quickly...Casey with her story...the As with their skewed version of the events. Me thinks that there WAS a whole lot of talking going on. The telephone lines between the As and Baez must have been burning those early days. I think there were just a few "honest" moments from the start. I don't think they cared how "illogical" they sounded...it sure did deflect from the truth. Even going on national tv to "supposedly" keep Caylee's name out there. They knew Caylee wasn't all over the country. They, personally, did not follow up on any of those leads...with the exception of the last California sighting...and well, we know that was just an excuse to explain their appearance on LKL (IMO). Wow! I just had an "AHA" moment: it's NEVER been about Caylee!! So I have to ask now, just when did they know what Casey had done? That very first night? I think so. Cindy claimed she didn't have "enough time" to ask her daughter questions. BS!

This is exactly what I believe. I think after the 911 calls that Casey told them Caylee was dead. I do not think she told them she had murdered her, but rather that an horrible accident had occurred and Caylee was dead and NOW what was she going to do since they had so STUPIDLY (thinking like Casey) involved the police? It began that very night with the lies and it has continued on to, well, to now. As for her not having enough time for questions? The police did not arrive on the scene until what-after 10 pm? Is that correct? I am sure it was at least after 9...so she had several hours in which to ask all the questions she needed to ask.

Casey: You don't know what's going on?
Cindy: Well I don't sweetheart...

paraphrasing of course, but, right there, Casey gives it all away that at least her mother KNEW exactly what was going on and she called her on it for all the world to hear.

 

[MissJames]

I think KC WAS bold enough to kill Caylee at home.Almost like a dare.And she probably was half hoping to get caught so she could see the look on CA's face."See what you made me do Mom?"
I still wonder what role GA was playing.He spilled a lot to LE and seemed to want to hide that from CA.So has he covered for KC or not? Why not spill everything?

 

[KenoshaKid]

This is exactly what I believe. I think after the 911 calls that Casey told them Caylee was dead. I do not think she told them she had murdered her, but rather that an horrible accident had occurred and Caylee was dead and NOW what was she going to do since they had so STUPIDLY (thinking like Casey) involved the police? It began that very night with the lies and it has continued on to, well, to now. As for her not having enough time for questions? The police did not arrive on the scene until what-after 10 pm? Is that correct? I am sure it was at least after 9...so she had several hours in which to ask all the questions she needed to ask.

Casey: You don't know what's going on?
Cindy: Well I don't sweetheart...

paraphrasing of course, but, right there, Casey gives it all away that at least her mother KNEW exactly what was going on and she called her on it for all the world to hear.

I just don't think so... Remember the jailhouse tapes where CA was telling KC that "people are saying she drowned in the pool" and KC had this "???" look on her face trying to figure out where her mom was going with that. I think CA was trying to see what KC's reaction, even just body language, would be to that statement. And the times she made her look at her so she could make eye contact. I think she had a pretty darn good suspicion, or maybe knew in her heart, but I don't think its because KC spilled it. I think she lied to JB for a really long time, too, if she still isn't doing so.

 

[RR0004]

This is exactly what I believe. I think after the 911 calls that Casey told them Caylee was dead. I do not think she told them she had murdered her, but rather that an horrible accident had occurred and Caylee was dead and NOW what was she going to do since they had so STUPIDLY (thinking like Casey) involved the police? It began that very night with the lies and it has continued on to, well, to now. As for her not having enough time for questions? The police did not arrive on the scene until what-after 10 pm? Is that correct? I am sure it was at least after 9...so she had several hours in which to ask all the questions she needed to ask.

Casey: You don't know what's going on?
Cindy: Well I don't sweetheart...

paraphrasing of course, but, right there, Casey gives it all away that at least her mother KNEW exactly what was going on and she called her on it for all the world to hear.

Thank you...I was thinking just that..."you don't know what's going on!?"...now it makes perfect sense. And IMO CA sounded awfully smug under the circumstances...true CMA mode.

 

[RR0004]

I think KC WAS bold enough to kill Caylee at home.Almost like a dare.And she probably was half hoping to get caught so she could see the look on CA's face."See what you made me do Mom?"
I still wonder what role GA was playing.He spilled a lot to LE and seemed to want to hide that from CA.So has he covered for KC or not? Why not spill everything?

Personally, I now think that was just part of a very well crafted (not really) act. Initially, everyone thought that GA was the good guy...the one everyone felt sorry for...he didn't evoke those kind of emotions from me...neither did LA. I'm just not buying the whole "we knew nothing" routine. GA got caught up in his own lie on GVS early on. That's when I realized they were all covering for Casey.

 

[RR0004]

I just don't think so... Remember the jailhouse tapes where CA was telling KC that "people are saying she drowned in the pool" and KC had this "???" look on her face trying to figure out where her mom was going with that. I think CA was trying to see what KC's reaction, even just body language, would be to that statement. And the times she made her look at her so she could make eye contact. I think she had a pretty darn good suspicion, or maybe knew in her heart, but I don't think its because KC spilled it. I think she lied to JB for a really long time, too, if she still isn't doing so.

IMO...once they knew those calls/meetings were taped...there was nothing truthful about them.

 

[AZlawyer]

Thank you...I was thinking just that..."you don't know what's going on!?"...now it makes perfect sense. And IMO CA sounded awfully smug under the circumstances...true CMA mode.

Without having the transcript in front of me, I think it was more like:

Cindy: I don't know what your involvement is.
Casey: MOM!
Cindy: What?
Casey: You don't know what MY involvement is??

Meaning...MY involvement? I told you and told you what happened, and it wasn't ME who did anything, it was imaginanny Zanni. So what do you mean MY involvement? Are you daring to question my truthfulness Mom?

 

[RR0004]

Without having the transcript in front of me, I think it was more like:

Cindy: I don't know what your involvement is.
Casey: MOM!
Cindy: What?
Casey: You don't know what MY involvement is??

Meaning...MY involvement? I told you and told you what happened, and it wasn't ME who did anything, it was imaginanny Zanni. So what do you mean MY involvement? Are you daring to question my truthfulness Mom?

Or was CA not following the script?

PS- Great convo...I can actually see/hear it in my mind's eye!

 

[Leila]

BBM by me...I remember that interview too. It seemed strange that they didn't do the obvious...go to Sawgrass and knock on every door showing pictures of Caylee.

I haven't been able to find the video but Cindy gave another interview talking about how cautious Casey was with Caylee. Cindy said Casey carried a spare key and kept it in her pocket in case she locked Caylee in the car in the Florida heat. She also said Casey wouldn't allow Caylee near smoke. We know Tony smoked in the apartment because Cindy complained of the smell of her clothes when Lee brought them home. If Casey's clothes smelled like smoke, Caylee would have too after being in his apartment.

I remember the interview in which Cindy said that Casey carried an extra key to the car in case she accidently locked Caylee in the car. I think that interview took place a few weeks after that first interview on July 18th.

The July 18th interview really bothered me. Here their granddaughter had supposedly been kidnapped by a nanny, yet there were no tearful pleas to the kidnapper to return their beloved granddaughter. It was the strangest interview I've ever seen with relatives of a kidnapped child.

We've all seen the painful interviews with frantic parents and grandparents of a missing child. They're very stressed and trying to answer a reporter's questions and often their voice cracks and they can barely speak, making a very emotional plea for their loved one to be returned. It's difficult to watch their pain.

Here, George and Cindy sat and answered the reporter's questions calmly, but going off in the direction they wanted the interview to go. The focus of their interview was the safe environment they had for Caylee.

That interview didn't make a whole lot of sense in many ways. It was only later, when we learned about the shed break-in, about Casey borrowing a shovel from the neighbor on June 18th, and about the issues with the pool ladder, that I realized that Cindy and George knew two days after Casey's arrest, when they gave that interview, what would later be revealed publicly and they were doing damage control in advance.

 

[Lexington]

The "extra key to the car" statement was giving KC an out that she was not the only person to have access to the decomp ridden car (someone took poor KC's extra key). Cindy also asked KC in a jail interview "why didn't she come back for the car". The A's were plotting and scheming from day 31 when they knew dam well what she had done and most likely suspected from day 1.

 

[AZlawyer]

The "extra key to the car" statement was giving KC an out that she was not the only person to have access to the decomp ridden car (someone took poor KC's extra key). Cindy also asked KC in a jail interview "why didn't she come back for the car". The A's were plotting and scheming from day 31 when they knew dam well what she had done and most likely suspected from day 1.

To be fair, what Cindy said in the jail visit could also have been "Why didn'tCHA come back for the car?" It isn't clear.

 

[Clock's Tickin]

Even after all of the time and discussion, I can't help but feel that the pool is the culprit. I still think she drowned on KCs watch and the rest is just strange happenstance mixed with KC's inability to deal with reality. Everythig KC did from that point forward both compounded the problem and yet distanced it. I think she left the remains in the yard during her panicked decision making process. I believe she prepped the remains inside the house for disposal. I do believe she kept the remains in the trunk several days and that the chloroform is the natural byproduct of decomp/pool water/ and cleaning attempts. I think she disposed of the remains in exactly the manner that most statistics point to as "the usual manner" of the guilty party. Her refusal to take responsibility for ANY of her actions in this case, make her guilty for EVERY action of this case. Way deep down, KC knows that her neglect led to her daughter's demise and yet her lack of remorse makes her more of a murderer than a careless mother.

 

[KenoshaKid]

Even after all of the time and discussion, I can't help but feel that the pool is the culprit. I still think she drowned on KCs watch and the rest is just strange happenstance mixed with KC's inability to deal with reality. Everythig KC did from that point forward both compounded the problem and yet distanced it. I think she left the remains in the yard during her panicked decision making process. I believe she prepped the remains inside the house for disposal. I do believe she kept the remains in the trunk several days and that the chloroform is the natural byproduct of decomp/pool water/ and cleaning attempts. I think she disposed of the remains in exactly the manner that most statistics point to as "the usual manner" of the guilty party. Her refusal to take responsibility for ANY of her actions in this case, make her guilty for EVERY action of this case. Way deep down, KC knows that her neglect led to her daughter's demise and yet her lack of remorse makes her more of a murderer than a careless mother.

I used to think this, too, until the duct tape findings.