Who Killed Jon Benet Ramsey? Poll

[UKGuy]

That also applies if one or both parents had killed her, IMO.



Would "I strongly believe it" meet muster?

SuperDave,
And that implies one or both parents were aware of historic abuse!

,

 

[MzOpinion8d]

Ah yes, the same physician who denied access to her files and threatened to "burn them" before handing them over. The same physician who could not remember why Patsy made frantic phone calls to him within a 10 minute time lapse.

Frankie, when did she make those calls? I don't recall hearing about that before but I may have just forgotten. Sounds intriguing though...

 

[FrankieB]

Frankie, when did she make those calls? I don't recall hearing about that before but I may have just forgotten. Sounds intriguing though...

Hi Mz

I'll have to dig up the source but I did read here a complete list of Jonbenét's visits to his office, and what stuck out for many of us was Patsy calling him about 3 times within 10 minutes. When questioned about it she said she couldn't remember why she had called him. Being one of the last items on the list (if not the last) those calls must have been made few days/months before the murder. I'll look it up...

 

[mrseeker]

Here is an interesting article from 1997 though it is a story based on the ramsey legal team...so take it for what it worth.

http://web.dailycamera.com/extra/ramsey/1997/03/16-2.html

 

[singularity]

There is no evidence a 9 year old boy molested his sister and killed her. Nothing but the imagination of internet posters over the years. .

There is evidence she was molested. Not everyone thinks Burke is the one who molested her. IMO she had multiple abusers and anything going on between Burke and Jonbenet(while alive anyways) I would throw into the "playing doctor" category.

The housekeeper admitted to finding the two of them under the covers and Jonbenet yelled at her to "get out!" so while I am not BDI, don't act like people are just pulling this stuff out of thin air.

On the subject of Jonbenet being abused, there's a raging, out of control fire underneath that massive smoke stack.

 

[mrseeker]

There is evidence she was molested. Not everyone thinks Burke is the one who molested her. IMO she had multiple abusers and anything going on between Burke and Jonbenet(while alive anyways) I would throw into the "playing doctor" category.

The housekeeper admitted to finding the two of them under the covers and Jonbenet yelled at her to "get out!" so while I am not BDI, don't act like people are just pulling this stuff out of thin air.

On the subject of Jonbenet being abused, there's a raging, out of control fire underneath that massive smoke stack.

There are conflicting opinions about prior sexual abuse. You can view the link i provided above to one of the many books out there quoting pathologists. The police did try a tactic interpreting the evidence as prior and chronic abuse, but that did not produce any results. They never found evidence of child abuse or sexual abuse in that family. I hardly think two kids of 6 and 9 (or younger) yelling at each other even under a blanket is evidence of sexual abuse. Even if there was abuse, it is not impossible for an unstable mother, who abuses drugs and alcohol, to abuse her daughter even sexually. Patsy seemed like a very strange woman to me.

 

[Tadpole12]

There is no evidence a 9 year old boy molested his sister and killed her. Nothing but the imagination of internet posters over the years. The second crime here is the libel and slander of another innocent child.

So Kolar is a false prophet?

 

[mrseeker]

So Kolar is a false prophet?

Not sure i would refer to Kolar as a profit false or otherwise. His conclusion was a leap of faith, not following the evidence. I did not read his book, but got pieces off the net. He basically says Mommy was too good of Mommy to do it. I dispute that because I think mommy was addicted to pain killers and maybe alcohol. I do not think she was of right mind when she killed JB. I do not think she was of right mind when she staged the scene. I do not think Burke could have inflicted this wound, but if he had, the reaction of even drunken Patsy would have been different. So Kolar I put in the category of mediocre investigator trying to make a fast buck. Patsy wrote that note. No way would John have gone along with that silly note. So could Burke have hit her then was sent to bed never to connect his assault with his sister's death? Does anyone think that is even possible?So JBR is lying there unconscious, no real signs of trauma, certainly not of a skull fracture. And the parents concoct this elaborate staging, but forget they left their daughter all garoted up before they called the police? No, impossible. One parent did not know. That parent was the one who did not write the note - John. So only one parent, Patsy, staged the scene...so she either did it for herself, or for a 9 year old boy who has managed to never slip up and confess anything in all these years. My money is on Patsy, the note writer. She did it. Why? I have a theory but it is no more valid than anyone else's.

 

[BBB167893]

SuperDave,
And that implies one or both parents were aware of historic abuse!

,

Well, let's examine that. If I'm right, and JR was the abuser, that brings up the question: what did Patsy know and when did she know it? Was she completely in the dark? Or did she decide that she didn't want to know, ie, turning a blind eye to it? Why would she turn a blind eye to it? Was JonBenet's continued success that important?

A LOT of questions.

 

[mrseeker]

prophet not profit..lol

 

[MzOpinion8d]

I didn't get the impression from Kolar's book that he thought Patsy was a good mom.

I definitely recommend reading the book in its entirety. I also thought Patsy had killed JonBenet in anger, but the info in Kolar's book was enlightening.

 

[mrseeker]

I didn't get the impression from Kolar's book that he thought Patsy was a good mom.

I definitely recommend reading the book in its entirety. I also thought Patsy had killed JonBenet in anger, but the info in Kolar's book was enlightening.

The problem I have with the case comes back to the note. If I believe Patsy wrote it, it really doesn't matter what I think about her mothering, it proves to me at least she was at the center of the coverup. I know I am a broken record, but the rambling of the letter also proves to me, at least, John did not help write it. I think we can all agree Burke did not write it or stage the body. So it leaves John either asleep the whole time, which is what I believe, or he is downstairs staging while the novelist Patsy is writing her essay. I think the note is something most normal men and women would not write. If any of us were to say write a fake kidnapping letter, we might all write something different, but it most likely would be short, threatening and to the point. So this writer must be not of right mind. Her point is not to get money. Her point is to convince the father to go to the bank in the morning, without calling anyone, get the money. While he is gone, i think Mommy was going to load the body into her trunk, drive a few miles out of town, and place the body on the side of the road. It just didn't unfold that way once John came down that morning. He reacted normally. Then by the time police got there, he was no longer acting normally. Even good moms can lose it if they are addicted to something. It does not mean there was not something wrong going on in JBR's world. Burke might know the family routine. He might know something that explains what the flashlight is doing in the kitchen at all. Think about it. We all have flashlights, and except when there is a power outage, I can hardly remember where it is. Why was it there? Who used it last? Some reports said it appeared it had been cleaned, but can't remember where I saw that. Did JBR have bed wetting or soiling issues, and did Patsy have the peculiar habit of sneaking into her room to check her with a flashlight instead of turning on her light? Not saying that is what happened, but what puts the flashlight in someone's hand? Was there something they used that flashlight for on a regular basis? I have also wondered about the theory of her soiling herself. Is it possible Patsy was bathing her and noticed some sign of abuse. When she asked JBR she told her something that Patsy did not accept. Maybe something that Patsy felt JBR was at fault? Again I think she was not of right mind? Could that have caused a violent reaction, and then staging with a sexual component, to cover what she saw? I saw in one interview, Patsy said something that JBR was too young to bathe herself. She clearly was not. Most first graders just need to be told to take a bath and parents remain close by. Did Patsy have some kind of sexual issues, or perhaps some views that made her resent her daughter? Some people suggest some form of jealousy, but idk. All we do know is, that child was violently attacked by one of three people.

 

[UKGuy]

The problem I have with the case comes back to the note. If I believe Patsy wrote it, it really doesn't matter what I think about her mothering, it proves to me at least she was at the center of the coverup. I know I am a broken record, but the rambling of the letter also proves to me, at least, John did not help write it. I think we can all agree Burke did not write it or stage the body. So it leaves John either asleep the whole time, which is what I believe, or he is downstairs staging while the novelist Patsy is writing her essay. I think the note is something most normal men and women would not write. If any of us were to say write a fake kidnapping letter, we might all write something different, but it most likely would be short, threatening and to the point. So this writer must be not of right mind. Her point is not to get money. Her point is to convince the father to go to the bank in the morning, without calling anyone, get the money. While he is gone, i think Mommy was going to load the body into her trunk, drive a few miles out of town, and place the body on the side of the road. It just didn't unfold that way once John came down that morning. He reacted normally. Then by the time police got there, he was no longer acting normally. Even good moms can lose it if they are addicted to something. It does not mean there was not something wrong going on in JBR's world. Burke might know the family routine. He might know something that explains what the flashlight is doing in the kitchen at all. Think about it. We all have flashlights, and except when there is a power outage, I can hardly remember where it is. Why was it there? Who used it last? Some reports said it appeared it had been cleaned, but can't remember where I saw that. Did JBR have bed wetting or soiling issues, and did Patsy have the peculiar habit of sneaking into her room to check her with a flashlight instead of turning on her light? Not saying that is what happened, but what puts the flashlight in someone's hand? Was there something they used that flashlight for on a regular basis? I have also wondered about the theory of her soiling herself. Is it possible Patsy was bathing her and noticed some sign of abuse. When she asked JBR she told her something that Patsy did not accept. Maybe something that Patsy felt JBR was at fault? Again I think she was not of right mind? Could that have caused a violent reaction, and then staging with a sexual component, to cover what she saw? I saw in one interview, Patsy said something that JBR was too young to bathe herself. She clearly was not. Most first graders just need to be told to take a bath and parents remain close by. Did Patsy have some kind of sexual issues, or perhaps some views that made her resent her daughter? Some people suggest some form of jealousy, but idk. All we do know is, that child was violently attacked by one of three people.

mrseeker,

I think we can all agree Burke did not write it or stage the body.

Nope, BR may have done it all, as per Kolar's account in his book and interview.

The ransom note is staged artifact so who authored it and why is not really open to speculation.

If you read some more on the case you might just adjust your beliefs.

 

[mrseeker]

mrseeker,


Nope, BR may have done it all, as per Kolar's account in his book and interview.

The ransom note is staged artifact so who authored it and why is not really open to speculation.

If you read some more on the case you might just adjust your beliefs.

BR did not write the note or stage the body. There is only a leap of faith to blame a 9 year old. The police did an interview, before the lawyers moved in and shut it all down. You would have to assume he would have the ability to not slip up even once about his brutal assault. This was a crushing blow to the top of the head. Even if he was able to fool the police, how has he kept quiet and out of trouble for all these years. He would have to remember hitting her and her falling unconscious. Even if he had not put one and one together the next morning, as an adult he surely would have figured it out. At 9 he could not have even been charged criminally. In fact he could confess right now and not face a charge. Is it possible some male member of the Ramsey family or circle was sexually abusing JBR? yes it is, and it might be the root of the case. I just think there is one person who killed her and that is mom. I am not sure why so many people cling to the tabloid story, Burke must have done it. I know, some think what would make a parent stage it. Must be to protect her other child. What about just protecting herself?

"The ransom note is staged artifact so who authored it and why is not really open to speculation." Not sure what you mean there. All of theories including BR did it is speculation. Of course the why and who is open to speculation.

 

[FrankieB]

Linda Arndt said there was an "incest dynamic" in the house and that everybody participated in it. Only one person might have attacked her and staged the crime, it could have been one or both adults but her comment includes all 3 in the house as abusers? I always thought she meant at least one of them was not a direct abuser per se, but rather an enabler.

 

[mrseeker]

Linda Arndt said there was an "incest dynamic" in the house and that everybody participated in it. Only one person might have attacked her and staged the crime, it could have been one or both adults but her comment includes all 3 in the house as abusers? I always thought she meant at least one of them was not a direct abuser per se, but rather an enabler.

I do not remember her saying that, but what exactly does that mean? "incest dynamic" ? what is the evidence? In Linda's mind? The investigators did try to find evidence of sexual and other child abuse in the family and never found it. I think the family seems a bit odd, especially Patsy. Nothing would surprise me, but even if you could prove it, it does not mean the 9 year old boy killed his sister. If anything it means one or both of the parents are at least neglectful if not sociopathic. Is it possible Patsy struck out because JBR accused someone? I suppose. If both parents had done this, the body would not have been found in the house. I think john found out or realized what happened later.

 

[BOESP]

I do not remember her saying that, but what exactly does that mean? "incest dynamic" ? what is the evidence? In Linda's mind? The investigators did try to find evidence of sexual and other child abuse in the family and never found it. I think the family seems a bit odd, especially Patsy. Nothing would surprise me, but even if you could prove it, it does not mean the 9 year old boy killed his sister. If anything it means one or both of the parents are at least neglectful if not sociopathic. Is it possible Patsy struck out because JBR accused someone? I suppose. If both parents had done this, the body would not have been found in the house. I think john found out or realized what happened later.

BBM - here's a link that addresses your question: http://www.acandyrose.com/03182000-arndtdepo-04102000.htm

 

[mrseeker]

BBM - here's a link that addresses your question: http://www.acandyrose.com/03182000-arndtdepo-04102000.htm

Thanks for the link. It appears to be in her mind. Not much there but her saying it existed. Could be true, but that doesn't change patsy killing her daughter for me anyway.

 

[FrankieB]

1 Q. And what opinions are you referring to that

2 were material to the investigation?

3 A. Incest. Naming the Ramseys as suspects.

4 Q. This is incest between John Ramsey and

5 JonBenet?

6 A. Yes, to the whole incest dynamic in the

7 family.

8 Q. But involving John Ramsey and JonBenet, any

9 other members?

10 A. Well, specifically because she's the one

11 who's dead.

12 Q. But when you refer again to incest, it

13 could involve any number of family members. I'm just

14 trying to identify the family members you refer to when

15 you use that term.

16 A. Well, there's a whole dynamic, because

17 everybody's got a role in the family.

18 Q. The incest has an effect on family members,

19 does it not?

20 A. Well, in general terms that covers it when

21 you talk about an act, but I'm talking about the

22 dynamic.

23 Q. I understand about the dynamic, but I want

24 to get the predicate first. The participants in the

25 incest, when you refer to incest, you're referring to

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1 John Ramsey and JonBenet and no other family members?

2 A. I refer to every member of the family.

3 Every member has got a role.

4 Q. But in terms of an actual sexual act that's

5 implicit in the term of incest, you're referring to

6 John Ramsey and JonBenet?

7 A. Yes.

 

[BOESP]

Thanks for the link. It appears to be in her mind. Not much there but her saying it existed. Could be true, but that doesn't change patsy killing her daughter for me anyway.

BBM - I agree. I still think PDI.

Btw - Linda Arndt, or so I've read, was specially trained in sexual abuse investigation.