Who Killed Jon Benet Ramsey? Poll

[BlueCrab]

While we're on the subject of who killed Jonbenet, would anyone care to suggest the kind of person that killed her?
Could a person have been really angry at the family? Who was upset with John or other family members?
Could it be a pedophile who fantasized about Jonbenet?
Could it be neighbor kids who just did it because they were evil?
Could someone have molested her and then needed her dead before she left and would be out of his control?
Any guesses?

Sissi,

Please try to broaden your perspective on this topic. ALL of the choices you listed in your above post would had to have been an intruder. Not many people who know the Ramsey case in detail believe there was an intruder.

JMO

 

[sissi]

When this case first hit the news, BC, I believed every media lie, and was certain the murderer could be found within that family.
All evidence pointed toward a RDI!
However, as the lies ,from the cops and media ,were uncovered, I simply changed my mind, given the new information it became difficult to believe any longer in a RDI.
I don't have to expand, I've been there.

Richenbach said there were no footprints, he noted the temp on the thermometer read 9'.
We do now know, the house was full of people when he arrived, and for this to be a first impression was very WRONG.
All the doors and windows were locked.
No, there were several windows and at least one door unlocked.
Noting the corrections to these two early lies should have made everyone think again, but it didn't?? I don't get this, at all! :banghead:

 

[BlueCrab]

However, as the lies ,from the cops and media ,were uncovered, I simply changed my mind, given the new information it became difficult to believe any longer in a RDI.

Richenbach said there were no footprints, he noted the temp on the thermometer read 9'.
We do now know, the house was full of people when he arrived, and for this to be a first impression was very WRONG.

Sissi,

The cops didn't lie about "no footprints in the snow". Snow on the walkways had melted, but the snow in the grassy areas had not yet melted when Sgt. Paul Reichenbach arrived sometime BEFORE 6:45 A.M.

PMPT pb, pg 79:

"By 6:45, three more police officers -- Barry Weiss, Sue Barcklow, and Sgt. Paul Reichenbach -- had arrived."

Reichenbach shortly thereafter briefed several detectives prior to their arriving, including Linda Arndt, and told them about no footprints in the snow ON THE GRASS.

PMPT pb, pg 79:

"Reichenbach told the detectives that there was light, crusty snow and frost on the Ramsey's lawn and he had seen no fresh footprints in the snow. The brick walkways were clear of snow."

Thus, the people (except Fernie and several cops) who came to the house after the 911 call used the walkways, which were clear of snow. BUT THERE WERE NO FRESH FOOTPRINTS IN THE SNOW ON THE GRASS. That's all Reichenbach was alluding to. The RST conveniently twisted that fact into something it wasn't by showing pictures of the lawn taken later in the day after the sun had come up and most of the snow had melted -- deviously implying the cops had lied.

JMO

 

[sissi]

If there were a light snow, at nine degrees faranheit, why wasn't there snow on the walkways? Richenbach said, when he pulled up to the house he noted, no footprints in the snow, that was fair, however, he had not gone to the back of the house where Fernie had walked from the back to the front across the lawn. No there is no ramsey spin here, it is a clear fact that his statement originated from his "pulling up to the house", he could not see the front lawn nearest the door, the side lawn or the lawn in the back of the house. He wasn't lying, he saw the walk way and the lawn going up toward the house, that is all, however his statement was misleading, he knew this, as did everyone involved with the investigation , IMO they chose to let it stand to incriminate a Ramsey.

 

[UKGuy]

Well Machiavelli might vote for John, and Columbo for Patsy, if you consider Doug Stine to be an Intruder, then you have an intruder and a ramsay, and there is the outside possibility, which would explain why the smoking gun is missing, that they were all involved it was a collective RDI!

On the snowfall I read in someone else's report that there was snowfall, it was reported to be lying on the lawns, grassy knolls, etc surrounding the houses, but on the walkways, it had laregly melted away. The no footprints was a media thing, just adding hype and spice to the story.

 

[BlueCrab]

If there were a light snow, at nine degrees faranheit, why wasn't there snow on the walkways? Richenbach said, when he pulled up to the house he noted, no footprints in the snow, that was fair, however, he had not gone to the back of the house where Fernie had walked from the back to the front across the lawn. No there is no ramsey spin here, it is a clear fact that his statement originated from his "pulling up to the house", he could not see the front lawn nearest the door, the side lawn or the lawn in the back of the house. He wasn't lying, he saw the walk way and the lawn going up toward the house, that is all, however his statement was misleading, he knew this, as did everyone involved with the investigation , IMO they chose to let it stand to incriminate a Ramsey.

Sissi,

Where do you get this stuff about Reichenbach not inspecting the back and the sides of the house outside? From the Bonita Papers:

"Sgt. Reichenbach, responding to the call to go to the 15th Street address, passed a time and temperature sign in a mall parking lot on his way to the Ramsey home. The temperature in Boulder that morning was 9 degrees. A light dusting of snow lay sprinkled on the ground, mostly visible on the neighborhood lawns. Upon his arrival at the residence REICHENBACH CONDUCTED A BRIEF INSPECTION OF THE OUTSIDE OF THE PREMISES. In addition to the newly fallen snow, portions of the yard were covered with one or two inches of crusty snow from a prior snowfall. He noted that no footprints were visible in the new snow that adhered to to the grass and pavement areas surrounding the house nor in the old snow still remaining."

Sissi, the light dusting of snow was melting from the sidewalks first because the bricks retain heat from the previous day. As the morning warmed up ALL of the dusting of snow was gone from both the sidewalks and the grass. The only snow left was in the thick crusty patches on the lawn from a previous snowfall.

The cops didn't lie. SNOW MELTS! The only people who appear to be lying are those who look at pictures taken in the middle of the day, with the sun brightly shiningg, and say "See, there's no snow. The cops were lying."

JMO

 

[sissi]

The photography was underway by the time Arndt arrived, about an hour after Richenbach claimed he read the temp on the tower as nine degrees.
I feel assured Patsy could be tried, and convicted for this crime she didn't commit, based on leaked lies and misinformation . I doubt , the information available ,exculpatory info,would ever make it into a court room.

 

[Seeker]

Sgt. Reichenbach probaby read it wrong or the temp reading on the tower was wrong.

 

[TLynn]

Footprints in the snow - whether or not

Window and/or doors unlocked - whether or not

Is that the only "evidence" you're going by to conclude it was an intruder?

When it comes to lying...what about Smit touting a basement window WIDE OPEN! Uh-huh. Never was....

 

[BlueCrab]

Sgt. Reichenbach probaby read it wrong or the temp reading on the tower was wrong.

Seeker,

No, the thermometer on the tower was working properly and Reichenbach read it correctly. The official weather bureau temperatures that night dipped to 8 degrees. It was a very cold night, but the weather warmed up quickly as dawn approached and the temperatures were well above freezing by mid-morning.

The extreme variance in the temperatures were unusual that night, but the spookiest thing in regard to the weather was the unexpected brief dusting of snow. Spooky because the snowfall was timed perfectly to trap JonBenet's killer in the house with both the body and a ransom note. To try to dispose of the body, as apparently planned in accodance with the note, would have left footprints in the snow from the house AND BACK AGAIN.

Only a Ramsey would have had this concern. An intruder wouldn't care, because he wouldn't be coming back. I guess God does indeed work in mysterious ways. S-p-o-o-o-o-k-y.

JMO

 

[sissi]

Temperatures are in degrees Fahrenheit and snow and precipitation are in inches. Missing values are indicated by -998.0. Trace values (less than 1/10 for snow and 1/100 for rain) are indicated by -999.0. Data starts on August 1 1948 and is through October 1997 but may be updated past that point

1996 12 26 51 6 0.00 -999.0 0


Dec 1996
Day high T low T Precip Snow Snow Depth

1 51 14 0 0 2
2 46 27 0 0 1
3 47 14 0 0 1
4 41 21 0 0 1
5 47 24 0.02 0 T

6 44 30 0 0 T
7 45 27 0 0 T
8 68 38 0 0 0
9 67 37 0 0 0
10 63 43 0 0 0

11 56 35 0 0 0
12 58 36 0 0 0
13 54 31 0 0 0
14 51 29 0 0 0
15 40 13 0 0 0

16 40 14 0.23 3.8 4
17 18 -4 0.11 2.1 6
18 18 -6 0 0 4
19 31 -4 0 0 4
20 49 22 0 0 3

21 47 36 0 0 2
22 52 20 0 0 1
23 38 17 0.01 0.2 1
24 44 24 0 0 T
25 54 24 0 0 T

26 51 6 0 T 0
27 59 26 0 0 0
28 54 37 0 0 0
29 64 34 0 0 0
30 60 42 0 0 0

31 65 32 0 0 0


I would like to know what the temp was at eight a.m. and what time
the dusting occured, if it was at six ,at four, it would have no bearing on the crime.

 

[BlueCrab]

1996 12 26 51 6 0.00 -999.0 0

I would like to know what the temp was at eight a.m. and what time
the dusting occured, if it was at six ,at four, it would have no bearing on the crime.

Sissi,

Thanks. I couldn't find my chart showing that. In Boulder, Colorado on December 26, 1996, the high temperature was 51 degrees; the low temperature was 6 degrees; and a trace of snow had fallen.

The snow obviously fell sometime between 12 midnight and 6:00 A.M. If the theory about the surprise snowfall preventing JonBenet's body from being carried out of the house is correct, then IMO the exact time that it fell between 12 and 6 didn't make any difference. Because footprints in the snow would have revealed someone leaving the house and then returning, a Ramsey was now trapped inside the house with a body and a ransom note that didn't make any sense, no matter what.

If the perp was an intruder, the footprints in the snow wouldn't have made any difference. He was headed in only one direction -- OUT!

JMO

 

[sissi]

It really isn't important if it snowed after the murder, in the case of an intruder, he would have been gone. In your scenario, there is a bit of a problem, who took the paper, tape,and cord out without leaving prints? Who took the fabric that sourced the fibers out, without leaving prints. My bet is that it snowed in the early am, after the crime, but without an hourly report I am only guessing. If this can be proven then it has no importance in the crime.

 

[BlueCrab]

It really isn't important if it snowed after the murder, in the case of an intruder, he would have been gone. In your scenario, there is a bit of a problem, who took the paper, tape,and cord out without leaving prints? Who took the fabric that sourced the fibers out, without leaving prints. My bet is that it snowed in the early am, after the crime, but without an hourly report I am only guessing. If this can be proven then it has no importance in the crime.

Sissi,

I too agree that it likely snowed in the early A.M., probably around 3 o'clock, but that also is just a guess. Most estimates of JonBenet's TOD put it around 1:00 A.M. (based on the full rigor of the body if found 12 hours after death, the obnoxious advanced state of putrefaction of the body, and the location of food in the digestive system).

It would have taken about 2 to 3 hours to stage the crime scene following the death, including writing the fake ransom note. That would put it around 3 A.M. to 4 A.M. when the perps finally opened the door to carry JonBenet's body outside and ("curses, foiled again") were greeted by a beautiful white blanket of snow that had just fallen. Their plan was destroyed by the surprise snow that would have left their footprints FROM the house and BACK again.

IMO the perps were Burke Ramsey and Doug Stine. In my theory the two of them had completed most of the staging, including the writing of the fake ransom note, before the parents became involved.

There were bicycle tracks in the snow across the Ramsey's front lawn and Patsy's bicycle was missing. Doug apparently beat it home (5 blocks away) by jumping on Patsy's new bicycle while carrying the missing crime-scene items the boys thought might give them away. The missing items included 9 pages from the note pad, the roll of black duct tape, the balance of the white nylon cord, the tip of the paint brush handle, the dark colored wipe-down fabric (which was probably Doug's shirt), the size 6 panties, the red ink pen, and the stun gun.

By providing the timely snowfall, did Mother Nature (God?) help us trap the killers of JonBenet? It can be interpreted that way.

JMO

 

[sissi]

I have heard that there were bike tracks, however, I've never heard that Patsy's bike was missing? There were kids in and out during the morning, neighbor kids, none that were friends of the family, perhaps one of these children brought a new bike over to show the Ramsey children on Christmas morning?

 

[BlueCrab]

I have heard that there were bike tracks, however, I've never heard that Patsy's bike was missing? There were kids in and out during the morning, neighbor kids, none that were friends of the family, perhaps one of these children brought a new bike over to show the Ramsey children on Christmas morning?

Sissi,

The picture of the bike tracks in the snow was crime scene photo #101 taken early in the morning of the 26th.

In regard to Patsy's missing bike, here's what I would consider a controversial 1998 interview on the subject:

LOU Smit: "You know, I've looked at a lot of pictures in regards to this particular case and I can't remember seeing any bikes. What happened to the bikes?"

JOHN RAMSEY: "Well, they were in the garage, I guess. JonBenet rode her bike for a moment outside before we went to the White's; just round the patio. I'm sure that went back in the garage. Patsy's bike, I don't know, it could have gone in the garage. I don't remember."

LOU SMIT: "Have you seen it since, Patsy's bike?"

JOHN RAMSEY: "Yeah. We have it."

LOU SMIT: "(inaudible) took it?"

JOHN RAMSEY: "No. We gave, JonBenet's bike we gave away. Patsy's bike we haven't (inaudible)."

I consider this a controversial part of the interviews because, in regard to the bike, Lou Smit seems to have named the person who took it, but the transcriber notes "inaudible" in place of the name. Was the transcript edited to shield a person's name?

JMO

 

[Seeker]

Blue, I disagree with you on your statements concerning temp and time.

Just as the sun comes up the temps in the mountains dip dramatically. That is a scientific fact and one phenomena I've experienced for myself. What time did the sun rise in Boulder on 12/26/1996?

Furthermore 1996 was the year we had El Nino, it was much warmer than normal. If Reichenbach saw a 9, it was Celcius, not farenheight. 9 C is approx 48 F which would fall into the correct range for the 6:30-6:45 time. I don't believe the chart that sissi posted is accurate (whoever posted it to the site where she got the data missed the 2 that should be in front of that 6). I live in the mountains and we do not get temps that go to that extreme on just one night!
The day before (from sissi's chart)
day high low
25 54 24 0 0 T

The day after
day high low
27 59 26 0 0 0

But the day of the 26th shows the overnight low as 6 degrees? Doesn't happen that way AND the chart shows 0 precip! Snow, even a light dusting will show as precip. The chart is inaccurate.

2 It would NOT take several hours to stage the crimescene! It took me all of 15 minutes to write out the ransom note....and I was trying to copy the lettering!

Example JonBenet is dead already having been stangled and her skull cracked plus the molestation occured while she was still alive (medical fact based on vascular congestion of vaginal mucosa), toss the blanket over her 3 seconds, write the ransom note 15 minutes, place it on the stair step a few (5 or less) minutes, get out of the house a few more minutes. The perp probably spent less than 45 minutes total on any staging and exiting the scene.

 

[sissi]

That would be interesting , but easy, couldn't they follow the tracks in the snow if this were the case?

I know there is no news, can't we all fight over something, it seems "just BC and Me" are carrying on a flimsy argument.
C'mon, others must have decided we're nuts by now, tell us!!

 

[sissi]

Blue, I disagree with you on your statements concerning temp and time.

Just as the sun comes up the temps in the mountains dip dramatically. That is a scientific fact and one phenomena I've experienced for myself. What time did the sun rise in Boulder on 12/26/1996?

Furthermore 1996 was the year we had El Nino, it was much warmer than normal. If Reichenbach saw a 9, it was Celcius, not farenheight. 9 C is approx 48 F which would fall into the correct range for the 6:30-6:45 time. I don't believe the chart that sissi posted is accurate (whoever posted it to the site where she got the data missed the 2 that should be in front of that 6). I live in the mountains and we do not get temps that go to that extreme on just one night!
The day before (from sissi's chart)
day high low
25 54 24 0 0 T

The day after
day high low
27 59 26 0 0 0

But the day of the 26th shows the overnight low as 6 degrees? Doesn't happen that way AND the chart shows 0 precip! Snow, even a light dusting will show as precip. The chart is inaccurate.

2 It would NOT take several hours to stage the crimescene! It took me all of 15 minutes to write out the ransom note....and I was trying to copy the lettering!

Example JonBenet is dead already having been stangled and her skull cracked plus the molestation occured while she was still alive (medical fact based on vascular congestion of vaginal mucosa), toss the blanket over her 3 seconds, write the ransom note 15 minutes, place it on the stair step a few (5 or less) minutes, get out of the house a few more minutes. The perp probably spent less than 45 minutes total on any staging and exiting the scene.

Wow Seeker, I BELIEVE YOU ARE RIGHT!!!
The temp range is way off on the chart ,as compared to the days before and after.
How strong is the political pull of the BPD in Boulder, strong enough to have numbers rearranged to fit their scenario?
Amazing too, and I missed this, is the alignment of the columns , this column is most definitely tampered. WOW..good sleuthing Seeker!

NO ONE POSTED THIS TO A SITE BTW..It's right off the official Boulder weather archive! Amazing!!
No snow! not nine degrees!

http://www.cdc.noaa.gov/Boulder/

 

[BlueCrab]

Sissi and Seeker,

So the Weather Service was wrong and Sgt. Reichenbach was wrong? Yeah, right. The truth of the matter is the RST can't accept ANY evidence that points to a Ramsey being involved in the death of JonBenet, not even facts from the Weather Service.

Even if there was a typo from the Weather Service, it wouldn't make any difference. It definitely snowed whether the temperature was 6 or 26 that night. The theory that the sudden snowfall could have trapped a Ramsey in the house with both a body and a ransom note still holds.

Here's the official weather information from Boulder on the 26th:

o The high temp. was 51; the low temp. was 6.

o A trace of snow fell.

o The sun set at 4:41 P.M. on the 25th; and it rose at 7:20 A.M. on the 26th. (The Ramsey house faces east, where the snow would have melted first; and the broken basement window faces west, where the snow would have melted last because it was in the shadow of the house.)

o The moon rose at 5:52 P.M. on the 25th; and it set in the northwest at 8:21 A.M. on the 26th. It was a full moon that night.

JMO