Who Killed Jon Benet Ramsey? Poll

[Frigga]

^^^
They are as valid as anyone else's opinions here.

The idea that the R's are a "normal, loving family" has been anything but proven. I have no doubt they loved each other but their life was anything but 'normal' with Patsy's cancer, the amount of time she devoted to her daughters pageants- it was the family (Patsy and John) who lied about the amount of time and money actually spent on these activities. Why? Why would they lie about that, would be my first question and also, I don't know about what you consider 'normal' or 'loving' but when a child is being even 'mildly' (a play on Nedra's assertion- so, NOT normal) sexually abused- that family is anything but 'normal' to me and the 'loving' part- don't even get me started.

There were some serious issues going on behind closed doors at that house- bed wetting and fecal smearing of chocolates and who knows what else. The idea that as outsiders we have any real idea of the pathology taking place behind closed doors at the Ramsey house is disingenuous. What happened on that fateful December night tells me a lot of 'not normal' behavior was taking place and it may have all finally imploded within the family. MOO.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Do we know the fecal smearing of chocolates to be Actually True?

Just asking....there's so much misinformation around JB....

 

[OliviaG1996]

Do we know the fecal smearing of chocolates to be Actually True?

Just asking....there's so much misinformation around JB....

It's true. There was also fecal-stained underwear in JBR's bedroom:

From "Foreign Faction - Who Really Kidnapped JonBenet?" by James Kolar:

There were other police reports in the files that documented what I thought could be viewed as related behavior. CSIs had written about finding a pair of pajama bottoms in JonBenet's bedroom that contained fecal material. They were too big for her and were thought to belong to Burke.

Additionally, a box of candy located in her bedroom had also been observed to be smeared with feces. Both of these discoveries had been made during the processing of the crime scene during the execution of search warrants following the discovery of JonBenet's body.

 

[OliviaG1996]

Where on earth do you get the idea that a golf club was used? The thing about the Ramsey theories is that people want to go into specifics like that (the same as those BS dialogues like you were there) that we don't even know. Also, what do you suppose their motive was ? A normal, loving family just out of the blue murders their daughter and no one says a word?

Burke never exhibited violence towards other children (at least not that we're aware of) and nothing seemed unusual about John or Patsy either. BTW JBR's bed was urine soaked, not Burke's.

BBM: Was BR's room even investigated?

 

[SapphireSteel]

I know where it comes from - Kolar - what I am asking is, is this allegation backed up by official documentation?

I just cant imagine myself looking at a box of chocolates and thinking "hmmm...poo" detective or not...one substance appears to be the same as the other at first glance?

Did the chocolates appear on any evidence list?

 

[SapphireSteel]

It's true. There was also fecal-stained underwear in JBR's bedroom:

I have it on excellent authority (SIL) that my brother still leaves stained underwear about the house, age 53, self made millionaire. Cant wipe his butt properly to this day.

 

[OliviaG1996]

I know where it comes from - Kolar - what I am asking is, is this allegation backed up by official documentation?

I just cant imagine myself looking at a box of chocolates and thinking "hmmm...poo" detective or not...one substance appears to be the same as the other at first glance?

Did the chocolates appear on any evidence list?

Not to sound gross, but when there are smears of fecal matter on an object, chances are the room's going to smell like crap. It'd be safe to assume what the smears were of on the box, especially if you also found stained underwear in the same room.

There were plenty of pairs of underwear taken from the house according to the search warrants found here. Not sure about the chocolates.

 

[andreww]

It's true. There was also fecal-stained underwear in JBR's bedroom:

In your quote it states that they were pyjama bottoms, not underwear. The question I have is, since they had skid marks and we can assume that the owner was not wearing underwear, then why were they being removed in JBs bedroom? Doesn't anybody in Colorado investigate this type of thing?

 

[OliviaG1996]

In your quote it states that they were pyjama bottoms, not underwear. The question I have is, since they had skid marks and we can assume that the owner was not wearing underwear, then why were they being removed in JBs bedroom? Doesn't anybody in Colorado investigate this type of thing?

The pajama bottoms JBR was wearing when she was found were described as "long underwear", so whether the bottoms found were underwear or pants is confusing.

If these things weren't collected, the Keystone Cops may have to give up their crown as the worst cops ever.

 

[houndstooth]

To clear up some misconceptions for you...

1) Yes, the golf clubs were close to the WC, you got that much right.

2) The clubs were not removed from the scene with JB. The Ramsey's sent Patsy's sister with a list of items to be removed from the house for them to take back to Atlanta with them. The golf clubs were on that list but she did not get them as LE would not allow her access to the basement. SO the golf clubs never left the house.

3) As above, the clubs were never loaded on a plane. As for the "Snow Country" part, I take it you have never been to Georgia. Augusta Golf club, arguably the most famous golf club in Georgia and arguably the whole world, actually shuts down after the Masters in April as it gets too hot for its members to play. Winter in Georgia is mild and perfect for golf.

In point of fact, I am very familiar as it is my home state. I was referring to the trip destination being Charlevoix, MI. Admittedly, it's been 10 years almost since I read a book on the murder. I thought that's where they told the pilot to go and that JR had insisted on loading the clubs himself. I could be wrong, but that's what I recalled the investigator's book saying.

 

[UKGuy]

I know where it comes from - Kolar - what I am asking is, is this allegation backed up by official documentation?

I just cant imagine myself looking at a box of chocolates and thinking "hmmm...poo" detective or not...one substance appears to be the same as the other at first glance?

Did the chocolates appear on any evidence list?

SapphireSteel,
There was a lot going on fecally:

James Kolar, Foreign Faction; Excerpt

I had reviewed an investigator’s report that documented a 1997
interview with former Ramsey nanny – housekeeper Geraldine
Vodicka, who stated that Burke had smeared feces on the walls of
a bathroom during his mother’s first bout with cancer. She told
investigators that Nedra Paugh, who was visiting the Ramsey
home at the time, had directed her to clean up the mess.

There were other police reports in the files that documented
what I thought could be viewed as related behavior. CSIs had
written about finding a pair of pajama bottoms in JonBenét’s
bedroom that contained fecal material. They were too big for her
and were thought to belong to Burke.

Additionally, a box of candy located in her bedroom had also
been observed to be smeared with feces. Both of these discoveries
had been made during the processing of the crime scene during
the execution of search warrants following the discovery of
JonBenét’s body.

I wondered whether fecal material observed in pajamas
thought to belong to Burke, and smeared on the box of candy in
his sister’s bedroom, could have been related to the symptoms of
scatological behavior associated with SBP.

I also contemplated the reasons why a box of JonBenét’s candy
would have been smeared with human excrement.

As noted previously, Linda Hoffman-Pugh had also mentioned
finding fecal material in JonBenét’s bed sheets. It raised the
question as to who may have been responsible for the deposit of
that material in her bed – had it been JonBenét or was it Burke?

Also we have Holly Smith, head of Boulder County Sexual Abuse Team, who visited JBR's bedroom on the third day of the investigation reported saying: most of the panties in JonBenet’s dresser drawers had been soiled with fecal material.

In JonBenet's bathroom lying on the floor was a black pair of fecally soiled pants!

.

 

[Tadpole12]

Barbara Walters Presents American Scandals


*********************************************
Warning: should be viewed with caution in patients with hypertension

*********************************************

Will Jonbenet's Killer Ever Be Found?:

http://www.investigationdiscovery.c...will-jonbenet-ramseys-killer-ever-be-found-2/

Did Inexperienced Cops Bungle The JonBenét Ramsey Murder Investigation?

http://www.investigationdiscovery.c...d-cops-bungle-a-child-murder-investigation-2/

 

[Tadpole12]

To the powers that be:

Might I ask why the posting of 'New Threads'
must be reviewed by a moderator?

As I post seldom but exclusively on the JBR
forum .... I guess I should try to post on another specific case forum ...... I wonder is this the norm on the other forums within WS site?

*******************************************
re: test
Okay, I see, all new threads are subject to moderation.

 

[Tadpole12]

Why?

also, Tricia?
regarding the Intruder theories only thread,
has the thread become extinct?

Has the sanitization of information not been completed?

Are we, the JBR posters, as a group, not entrusted to post on the exclusive IDI thread within the parameters of discussion that have been outlined?


********************************************


06-19-2015, 12:36 AM #2152

 

[andreww]

In point of fact, I am very familiar as it is my home state. I was referring to the trip destination being Charlevoix, MI. Admittedly, it's been 10 years almost since I read a book on the murder. I thought that's where they told the pilot to go and that JR had insisted on loading the clubs himself. I could be wrong, but that's what I recalled the investigator's book saying.

You are off the mark as you are confusing two events. Originally the plane was to fly to Michigan to celebrate Christmas with extended family. John had personally loaded the plane on Christmas Day.

After JBRs body was found John called his pilot and had him ready the plane to go to Atlanta. That trip was nixed by LE and the Rs stayed in Boulder until JBRs body was released to them. It was during that period that John requested but never got his golf clubs.

I think you are confusing some facts with the OJ Simpson case as well. I believe OJ insisted on loading his clubs in to the Limo and it is thought that he carried evidence in the bag that he later disposed of at the airport.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Tadpole12]

Daily Camera:

http://www.dailycamera.com/news/bou...onbenets-murder-television-special?source=rss

John Ramsey revisits JonBenet's murder on television special
10/27/2015
Charlie Brennan

"For the first time ever, John attempts to put to rest the rumors that his son, Burke, was somehow tied to the crime scene."The debut installment of Walters' series will also introduce Ramsey's new wife, Jan, who will talk about "how she dealt with the controversy when some people told her that she was marrying a killer," according to the news release.
According to grand jury documents unsealed in 2013, a grand jury returned indictments against both John Ramsey and his wife Patsy -- who died in 2006 -- for child abuse resulting in death and accessory to a crime, but then-District Attorney Alex Hunter declined to prosecute the case because of what he considered to be insufficient evidence."

 

[Tadpole12]

BW promotes American Scandals series;
[video=youtube;mW2-HhFUWJE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mW2-HhFUWJE[/video]@2:44

BW: JonBenet would have been 25 this year, that's hard to believe

JR: Uhmuhm

BW: Do you think about what kind of a woman she would have been?

JR: Mostly I think of her as a six year old child, that I remember

BW: When you see, ah, a six year old
playing in the park, do you ..

JR: ya it tugs at me, yep a little bit... particularly if they're a little girl and blond hair and ya kinda does


(apply the Hodgisms)

 

[andreww]

I like the official looking black guy who lambastes LE for sending marked cruisers when the RN clearly stated not to, yet he fails to mention the Ramsey's did not mention that important detail.

I like how he sates that one of the Ramsey guests cleaned and washed the pineapple bowl when I have heard that bowl was collected, frozen and later compared to the contents of her stomach.

I like how Babs mentions DNA and an unidentified palm print found on the door when we know that palm print was found to belong to Melinda Ramsey over a decade ago.

I like how Patsy explains her reluctance to tap to police by saying "very time we did talk to them it would be in the tabloids the next day". Um, well why did you wait three months to talk to them? Obviously the couldn't have leaked info that you refused to give them.

What a piece of crap/ Shame on you Barbara Walters.

 

[houndstooth]

You are off the mark as you are confusing two events. Originally the plane was to fly to Michigan to celebrate Christmas with extended family. John had personally loaded the plane on Christmas Day.

After JBRs body was found John called his pilot and had him ready the plane to go to Atlanta. That trip was nixed by LE and the Rs stayed in Boulder until JBRs body was released to them. It was during that period that John requested but never got his golf clubs.

I think you are confusing some facts with the OJ Simpson case as well. I believe OJ insisted on loading his clubs in to the Limo and it is thought that he carried evidence in the bag that he later disposed of at the airport.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thank you for correcting me on the particulars. It doesn't change my mind about Burke. And certainly the ABC Barbara Walters' Special would not, either. Just the PR video was spin, spin, spin. They were never exonerated. But, the DA refusing to prosecute the parents for their roles, was my understanding.
One thing that has changed is that I am considering that Burke did all of the wounds resulting in death, including the garotte.
I still believe upon discovery that the RN and all the staging and cover-up the R's are responsible for.

What the media and governmental agencies should be begging forgiveness for was the inexcusable, unnecessary spectacle of John Mark Karr to have been introduced into this case.

 

[Tadpole12]

"What a piece of crap/ Shame on you Barbara Walters."- Andreww

Yes Andrew, I agree. Upon viewing, I had thought that perhaps there's a special place in hell reserved for BW, where the sycophant would have access to many candidates for interview.

I'm not usually so reactionary or judgemental, but I'm cranky this morning, and riding on sugar from leftover Hallowe'en candy.