Who molested/abused Jonbenet?

[Nom de plume]

Did the DA give a reason for the denial?

I can't remember exactly what the reason was now. I know I read about it in ST's book, and I'm pretty sure it was in JK's too. Don't have a copy of either right now or I'd try to look it up for you. All I remember is that for some reason AH wouldn't sign a SW. I'm sure someone else here remembers.

 

[OpenMind4U]

NO! Ramsey did NOT deliver the phone records to BPD!! Steve Thomas tried repeatedly to get the phone records, which by the way were already in the evidence room, and was DENIED access by the DA's office numerous times!!! To this day BPD does NOT have the phone records!

Nom de plume,

Well, isn't interesting?...We're reading ON RECORD interview in which is clearly stated that Ramsey DID provide the phone records. Which records? We don't know. It could be John's work-phone records...Honestly, this part wasn't important to me, not for the point I tried to make.

The point was that in 1998, 18 months after JB's murder, BPD was continue TRYING to collect evidences. And on this particular instance, Ramsey DID provide (SOME KIND OF!!!) phone records. But, but, but...watch how BRYAN MORGAN plays this 'effort' for 'exchange' of something for his client right away....I do understand that BM was doing his job...but phrase 'islands of privacy' especially in the reference to the 'healling process', especially because this phrase was used later on as the JUSTIFICATION for 'seal' important medical records of ALL Ramsey's members - was very much disturbing for me, I felt the DEAL is going on upfront, in BPD...:banghead:

Can you imagine, intruder is not in jail yet, Police is still gathering evidences...and PARENTS 'entitled to have to continue your healing
process'???!!!!!

I don't know why and how the replies to my post took the PHONE RECORD 'turn'? ...it's not what I was expected.......but, thank you for reply!

jmo

 

[DeeDee249]

The Rs never provided any phone records. Actually, a judge sealed them forever because they were part of another case- some tabloid reporters had tried to obtain the credit card and phone records of the Rs illegally, so a judge sealed them and kept them from being given to LE.
Now- this was the sexual assault and murder of a child- you'd think that was more important, right? Not in Boulder.
And there had to be more to it, too. The defense team had a lot of friends. So it wouldn't be unusual if some of them were judges....

 

[pageantmom]

I'm sorry I am not trying to hijack this conversation but I'm new here so I cant start a thread myself yet and I don't know what to do. Sorry. If someone could please, please tell me this information (or at least tell me where I can find this information) I need to see where I can look at pictures of boys born in 1998 and 1999 who are currently missing. From anywhere in the United States I know that's huge but I don't know a location. But at least the years born narrow it down. I'm sorry. Is there a way to find this. Thanks.

 

[UKGuy]

The Rs never provided any phone records. Actually, a judge sealed them forever because they were part of another case- some tabloid reporters had tried to obtain the credit card and phone records of the Rs illegally, so a judge sealed them and kept them from being given to LE.
Now- this was the sexual assault and murder of a child- you'd think that was more important, right? Not in Boulder.
And there had to be more to it, too. The defense team had a lot of friends. So it wouldn't be unusual if some of them were judges....

DeeDee249,
Sounds like a very convenient method to avoid handing over your phone records.


.

 

[UKGuy]

I'm sorry I am not trying to hijack this conversation but I'm new here so I cant start a thread myself yet and I don't know what to do. Sorry. If someone could please, please tell me this information (or at least tell me where I can find this information) I need to see where I can look at pictures of boys born in 1998 and 1999 who are currently missing. From anywhere in the United States I know that's huge but I don't know a location. But at least the years born narrow it down. I'm sorry. Is there a way to find this. Thanks.

pageantmom,
There are missing childrens websites out there, which do include pictures. having worked myself on some of these cases. I've noticed, the older the case, the less likely that good quality pictures will be available, also parents never in a million years think that their child will vanish, and with limited access to photography equipment way back then, fewer pictures are taken.

Try one of these:
Missing Kids
http://www.ncmec.org/missingkids/servlet/BannerServlet?LanguageCountry=en_US

Missing Children
http://www.missingkids.com/

Kidnappings & Missing People etc
http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/kidnap

If this does not pan out try a google or bing search using this text as a template, including all the punctuation.

"Child's Name" missing AND picture OR image

hope this helps.


.

 

[pageantmom]

Thank you UK! Again sorry for butting into a different conversation! It's hard because on the websites you can search through the missing children but I don't know the boys real name, location he was from, or even what year he went missing. All I know is born 1998/1999, but you cant search by year born. It makes it difficult to search. I just don't know enough. Thanks again for the links. I really appreciate it and again sorry to butt into this conversation!!

 

[UKGuy]

Thank you UK! Again sorry for butting into a different conversation! It's hard because on the websites you can search through the missing children but I don't know the boys real name, location he was from, or even what year he went missing. All I know is born 1998/1999, but you cant search by year born. It makes it difficult to search. I just don't know enough. Thanks again for the links. I really appreciate it and again sorry to butt into this conversation!!

pageantmom,
No problem. Then search google or bing by another search phrase, i.e. "missing boy" born 1999|1998

To search by age copy this into google:

"missing" "one|two|three|four|five|six|seven|eight|nine|ten|eleven|twelve|thirteeen|fourteen|fifteen|sixteen" "year old boy"

You will probably be deluged with information, so try them one at a time, i.e.
"missing eight year old boy"

Change the year word number to suit, but do not forget the punctuation, i.e. " "

.

 

[pageantmom]

Wow why didn't I think of that. Thank you so much UK, you have no idea how much you have helped me, I appreciate it. Now I promise no more hijacking the thread!!

 

[UKGuy]

Wow why didn't I think of that. Thank you so much UK, you have no idea how much you have helped me, I appreciate it. Now I promise no more hijacking the thread!!

No problem, thats what WS tries to do,


.

 

[questfortrue]

To return to the excellent post from om4u,
PR behaves (at first) as though she has no idea of the chronic vaginal trauma.. It may have been colossal denial, but I’ve thought that she knew something and just hoped it would end. It may even have given her leverage over JR.

If you read the entire deposition from which om4u excerpted this, PR claims her marriage is perfect, she and JR never fight, always agree, JR never brings anything negative home from work.

Another one of the very interesting statements to the detectives in this depo is between her and one of her prior best friends. See what you think of this dialogue between PR and PW:
“when we were in
Atlanta, I just sort of remember Priscilla
standing in my mother's living room, family room, you know, just kind of like this and
saying, "well, I know what's going on" and she
said, "if you would give me a few minutes of
your time, I could let you in on some things."
And I turned to her and I said,
"Priscilla, how can you know so much?" And I
said, "I am the mother of this child. And I
know nothing."[/COLOR]

 

[midwest mama]

To return to the excellent post from om4u,
PR behaves (at first) as though she has no idea of the chronic vaginal trauma.. It may have been colossal denial, but I’ve thought that she knew something and just hoped it would end. It may even have given her leverage over JR.

If you read the entire deposition from which om4u excerpted this, PR claims her marriage is perfect, she and JR never fight, always agree, JR never brings anything negative home from work.

Another one of the very interesting statements to the detectives in this depo is between her and one of her prior best friends. See what you think of this dialogue between PR and PW:
“when we were in
Atlanta, I just sort of remember Priscilla
standing in my mother's living room, family room, you know, just kind of like this and
saying, "well, I know what's going on" and she
said, "if you would give me a few minutes of
your time, I could let you in on some things."
And I turned to her and I said,
"Priscilla, how can you know so much?" And I
said, "I am the mother of this child. And I
know nothing."[/COLOR]

BBM, CBM

By the time JB died, especially with her medical history, how can we, for one minute think Patsy did NOT know something - or at least highly suspect something. Either way she would have had leverage over JR.

The quote in red: Patsy first belittles Priscilla by diminishing her ability to have any knowledge about JB's death - a move to take dominance of the situation. Then, she demonstrates her position of authority and management over "this child" (a rightful possession which serves her need of appearing socially correct). Patsy's life was structured first around Patsy taking care of Patsy and satisfying Patsy's needs for recognizable achievements. Narcissism. Short version of the narcissist's attitude about life: "It's my way or the highway". Sad thing is, they usually have no clue that 'their way' isn't always the best way - and they can see it no other way.

Patsy loved her children only as well as she knew how to, and I believe that loving them included no sacrifices on her part: no sacrifices of time or emotion that was used to care for herself first and foremost in a way that could only accommodate her view of having the "perfect family".

Short sentence: "And I know nothing". Establishes a stand of her choice to deny her responsibility for the protection of JB - she could not apply the time it would require, which also would have eroded her "perfect family".

Short sentences of that type will often establish a person's dominant CHOICE regarding something that can have more than one option. Her mother role mentor, Nedra, replied when asked how they would handle JB balking about participating in pageants, "We will say: JB, you will."

In Patsy's mind, she could only 'know nothing'. It was the only way she justified every other aspect of her view of life.

 

[Nom de plume]

BBM, CBM

By the time JB died, especially with her medical history, how can we, for one minute think Patsy did NOT know something - or at least highly suspect something. Either way she would have had leverage over JR.

The quote in red: Patsy first belittles Priscilla by diminishing her ability to have any knowledge about JB's death - a move to take dominance of the situation. Then, she demonstrates her position of authority and management over "this child" (a rightful possession which serves her need of appearing socially correct). Patsy's life was structured first around Patsy taking care of Patsy and satisfying Patsy's needs for recognizable achievements. Narcissism. Short version of the narcissist's attitude about life: "It's my way or the highway". Sad thing is, they usually have no clue that 'their way' isn't always the best way - and they can see it no other way.

Patsy loved her children only as well as she knew how to, and I believe that loving them included no sacrifices on her part: no sacrifices of time or emotion that was used to care for herself first and foremost in a way that could only accommodate her view of having the "perfect family".

Short sentence: "And I know nothing". Establishes a stand of her choice to deny her responsibility for the protection of JB - she could not apply the time it would require, which also would have eroded her "perfect family".

Short sentences of that type will often establish a person's dominant CHOICE regarding something that can have more than one option. Her mother role mentor, Nedra, replied when asked how they would handle JB balking about participating in pageants, "We will say: JB, you will."

In Patsy's mind, she could only 'know nothing'. It was the only way she justified every other aspect of her view of life.

Spot on assessment of Patsy!

What do you think Priscilla wanted to tell Patsy? Did she know JB was being abused and by whom? Did JB tell her something, or did she overhear JB tell her daughter something? Could it be something completely different like something FW figured out the morning of the 26th?

 

[pageantmom]

Maybe Priscilla did know information or somehow figure out what was happening. If so I wonder what she was going to say.

BUT let's not forget there is a good chance this whole exchange never happened. The Ramseys seemed to want to throw the Whites under the bus from the first. Maybe Patsy made up this conversation so that people would think Priscilla was "involved". Remember how we were supposed to think Priscilla was involved because she did the very suspicious thing of saving some cracked crab for JonBenet to eat, because she knew JonBenet loved eating cracked crab? I mean how guilty looking can you get, right?

 

[midwest mama]

Maybe Priscilla did know information or somehow figure out what was happening. If so I wonder what she was going to say.

BUT let's not forget there is a good chance this whole exchange never happened. The Ramseys seemed to want to throw the Whites under the bus from the first. Maybe Patsy made up this conversation so that people would think Priscilla was "involved". Remember how we were supposed to think Priscilla was involved because she did the very suspicious thing of saving some cracked crab for JonBenet to eat, because she knew JonBenet loved eating cracked crab? I mean how guilty looking can you get, right?

If Priscilla was there, she might have validated the exchange or could do so. Patsy squashed her like a bug - she should have remembered that at such a volatile time.

I think she had info about who, what, when, where, how, regarding the molestation of JB, AND things Fleet suspected about the crime. The Whites went on a very thorough campaign to get the R's seriously looked at.

 

[OpenMind4U]

I offer you to look at this 'conversation' from the entirely different point of view. Again, let's follow the sentences and try to find the meaning behind.

Priscilla: "if you would give me a few minutes of
your time, I could let you in on some things."

Patsy: And I turned to her and I said,
"Priscilla, how can you know so much?" And I
said, "I am the mother of this child.
And I know nothing.

The first two things that comes to my mind are:

- Wait a minute, how Patsy knew that Priscilla was talking about 'this' child?! Priscilla said 'I let you in on some things' ...'some things' could be in reference to some outsider with whom family had connection or some kind of secret disputes between adults...it could be ANYTHING!!! Why Patsy was ASSUMING that 'on some things' was in reference to this 'child'???

- Now, let's follow Patsy's 'assumption' and let's pretend that Priscilla's comment 'on some things' was indeed in reference to JB. In this case, Patsy's response is more than revealing.

a) Patsy REFUSED to listen Priscilla further!!
Questions: Why? What was she affraid to hear? Why would she NOT listen to person who was such a good friend of Ramsey's family for many years and who was the first who've been called to and arrived right away on the morning of 'kidnapping', just few days ago? What makes Patsy to 'push' Priscilla away?
Answer: Priscilla had knowledge; Priscilla knew the truth!!!

b) Patsy does NOT wants to expose the TRUTH. 'I KNOW NOTHING!' response is pretty powerfull, isn't? If you would say: 'I don't know about' or 'I have no knowledge'...but 'I KNOW nothing' IMO means: yes, I do know and it's nothing!...kind of: end of the story/end of discussion! It's FINAL.

Bottom line, conversation with Priscilla (as described by Patsy) is very much revealing to me. I have no doubts that:

1. Priscilla White (as well as her husband) knows the TRUTH and wants this truth to be exposed;
2. Patsy Ramsey (as well as her husband) knows the TRUTH but wants (and will!!!) deny it no matter what.

jmo

 

[midwest mama]

OM4U:great: I agree with your post wholeheartedly!

From your post:
Bottom line, conversation with Priscilla (as described by Patsy) is very much revealing to me. I have no doubts that:

1. Priscilla White (as well as her husband) knows the TRUTH and wants this truth to be exposed;
2. Patsy Ramsey (as well as her husband) knows the TRUTH but wants (and will!!!) deny it no matter what.

My thoughts:

1. Good thing! Hope they succeed!
2. Patsy may have known the truth, no matter who killed JB and succeeded in keeping it from the public. Nothing left for her to do. Her husband does know the truth, and could tell us, if he can be placed under oath, unless he commits perjury and sticks to his intruder story.

It will take an arrest under charges of minimum of Felony Murder to get JR into a courtroom and then it will be up to a jury to decide if he is innocent or guilty. No matter what JR would say under oath - lies, the truth, or somewhere in between with a fantasy story, the truth that is needed to resolve this case would be handed down from a jury. And we would have to live with that.

 

[OpenMind4U]

OM4U:great: I agree with your post wholeheartedly!

From your post:
Bottom line, conversation with Priscilla (as described by Patsy) is very much revealing to me. I have no doubts that:

1. Priscilla White (as well as her husband) knows the TRUTH and wants this truth to be exposed;
2. Patsy Ramsey (as well as her husband) knows the TRUTH but wants (and will!!!) deny it no matter what.

My thoughts:

1. Good thing! Hope they succeed!
2. Patsy may have known the truth, no matter who killed JB and succeeded in keeping it from the public. Nothing left for her to do. Her husband does know the truth, and could tell us, if he can be placed under oath, unless he commits perjury and sticks to his intruder story.

It will take an arrest under charges of minimum of Felony Murder to get JR into a courtroom and then it will be up to a jury to decide if he is innocent or guilty. No matter what JR would say under oath - lies, the truth, or somewhere in between with a fantasy story, the truth that is needed to resolve this case would be handed down from a jury. And we would have to live with that.

MM, your words to God's ears!!!...but as the first thing, let's pray to God for the new GJ!!! lease:. Without it, no court proceeding in the near future = JR/BR are FREE to search for intruder :banghead:

And while JR is still alife and Boulder's BPD/DA are stll have no balls - Mr and Mrs Fleet White will keep quiet.

jmo

 

[madeleine]

Her husband does know the truth, and could tell us, if he can be placed under oath, unless he commits perjury and sticks to his intruder story.

he will never tell the truth IMo,not if he's the killer and he probably is.they don't have direct evidence against him,don't know what the murder weapon was,don't know for sure what exactly killed her,don't have strong evidence of abuse, and the Ramsey team knows it,they would beat the IDI horse to death in court (DNA)...the chance of catching him with another big lie are slim now,LW trained him well...he won't ever confess either IMO....so MAYBE BR will spill the beans after his dad dies....(but who knows how much he does know anyway....) and if he does people will believe he points fingers at his dad only to protect HIMSELF.....
I so don't wanna accept this but I think it's over(charges&prosecution)....:furious:

 

[Rashi'sDaughter]

Is Fleet White on LinkedIn? Could it be that someone on WS knows someone who knows him or his wife? At least maybe he would be willing to talk to Chief Kolar and it could start the ball rolling.