Who really watched Caylee ??

[Tink]

Yup. If you look closely at the timeline that CA created with the police shortly after casey was first arrested, and compare it with what we know from general statements of the family and from boyfriends and friends, etc., it really appears that Caylee was with the grandparents, Kristina Chester and the Grunds, and when the Grunds and Ms. Chester refused to provide free babysitting anymore because they realized they were being used, casey had Caylee with her during the day, dragging her resentfully around as the Lake Vaj photos show, and then dumping her with her parents at night or in bed with Ricardo Morales.

But when she got a new man, TonE, who did not think having a baby in his bed was appropriate, casey killed her. Problems solved, or so she thought.

IMO there was no mysterious babysitter and no trunk incidents until the day Caylee was willfully murdered by her own remorseless mother.

This is what I think, too. I think she pretended to her parents that she was taking Caylee to a nanny while she was at work, and I think they suspected she wasn't really working and that it was a lie, but they didn't want to push her on it.

Tink

 

[BigMomma]

I tend to believe chloroform was used in the trunk after it was recovered from the tow yard.
Regardless of the fact that it may lay low due to it's properties, I find it highly unlikely. ICA. drove around for days with levels that high or that GA was able to drive home without succumbing to the vapors.

JMHOO, it was dumped or poured on to destroy DNA. no way the trunk could have been cleaned in the presence of chloroform either. Especially with the levels of heat in FLA in July.
In my mind it does not add up.
and it reeks of CA the granny,
Granny Anthony
Zany (crazy) "Zany Granny"
ZANNY Anthony the Granny----only
MOO

I think you could be right about this surmise. The levels of Chloroform were just too high in that trunk that was out in the heat and abandoned for days. I just wonder if other cleaning compounds were poured into a bucket and left in the trunk for those few hours to make those levels so high and not neccessarily poured on the carpet, only because things like acetone, bleach would leave a tell tale stain. Thinking out loud, use carpet cleaner or vaccuum powder, place a bucket of nasty smelling stuff in there, close up the car, come back from work, open up car just prior to LE getting there and then spraying the febreze and using dryer sheets. I know what the A's said about leaving the car open, but that doesn't make it a fact. A lot of what they say, there just are no real facts.

 

[USARDOG]

I think you could be right about this surmise. The levels of Chloroform were just too high in that trunk that was out in the heat and abandoned for days. I just wonder if other cleaning compounds were poured into a bucket and left in the trunk for those few hours to make those levels so high and not neccessarily poured on the carpet, only because things like acetone, bleach would leave a tell tale stain. Thinking out loud, use carpet cleaner or vaccuum powder, place a bucket of nasty smelling stuff in there, close up the car, come back from work, open up car just prior to LE getting there and then spraying the febreze and using dryer sheets. I know what the A's said about leaving the car open, but that doesn't make it a fact. A lot of what they say, there just are no real facts.

When discussing "high" levels of Chloroform I believe they are actually being compared to normal atmospheric air, and air around a decomposing body. These again IMO, would not necessarily be high enough to be able to influence a live person, say the driver, in the front compartment. A trunk is a fair container, and while not sealed, does to some degree isolate the contents. It's not like she was driving around with an open container of Ch in her car, but rather the residue of Ch coming from a body who had been rendered unconscious by Ch, and it was that Ch was was found in the trunk.

 

[HRCODEPINK]

Oh that is beyond distressing. I truly hope you are successful in denying access.

Thank you. I really hope so too. Money seems to be a big factor, and now that he knows that I can do something that would hurt him financially, he is starting to back off, but I have a team of people working to keep visitation supervised.

 

[dog.gone.cute]

Not sure if this is the place to post this. But was it ever determinded who caylees' father was??

That is the $64 Million Dollar Question ...

But for this thread ... since we do NOT know who the father is, we do NOT know if he watched Caylee.

I hope that made sense ...

 

[concentric]

Many of us were posting about whether Caylee had been put in the trunk, chloroform, drugs, heat exhaustion and the possible use of duct tape when Caylee was first reported as missing.

That being said, does anyone remember that a witness in either a salon or tattoo parlor said that she saw Caylee with a rash around her mouth??? It is posted in an early thread.

 

[Pink Panther]

For me, one of the biggest mysteries we have yet to definitively solve, is where actually did Casey go / what was she doing when she pretended to go off to work? Shortly before Caylee was killed, George had been unemployed, only newly employed about the time she was discovered "missing." So Casey must have been packing up herself and Caylee and pretending to go off to work. . . . So was Caylee with her then? If not, where was she? I'm of the camp that believes she used OTC meds at times to "babysit." I also think Caylee looks very pale and her eyes glassy in the months before her death. And as some of you have mentioned,Caylee was beginning to understand and talk a lot more. and I think this contributed to Casey's looking up the chloroform and planning her demise. Whatever Casey might have been doing, she could have been going to one of the empty houses, or even Lees during the day. I think George and Cindy watched her a lot after work and at night. But as we know, Cindy was fed up with this plan. That dear child had quite a life before her untimely death. Bless her.

I think that most of the time ICA left (pretending to take Caylee to the Nanny) and returned home after her parents had left. Until GA was unemployed, I think she spent the better part of her days right at home. When GA was unemployed, she left and probably hung out at malls, at parks or with friends who weren't at work. Not so complicated.

moo

 

[Silkprint]

He now wants to keep her on weekends, out of the blue, all of a sudden and I am convinced that it is because he wants to off her to stop paying child support. Sociopaths can't care about anyone but themselves and don't really bond with their children.

HR ..I have goosebumps ...I pray your daughter will be okay .
I hope with all my heart you can keep her 'father' away from her . He scares me just from reading your post.

 

[Spangle]

Sorry but I disagree with Caylee being in the trunk prior to her death as I feel she would have been dead a long time ago.It's Florida after all.
That is one of the things I have been in serious disagreement about since this case started.I have not now nor will I ever believe she used the trunk as a babysitter.
That's just my opinion.

I've got the same opinion. You can't even leave your dog in the car in Florida for five minutes. It is harped on here constantly and for a good reason. The heat will kill quickly! It happens. Just like kids drowning in pools, it makes the news. Kids left by parents, grand-parents, even bus drivers. People are warned constantly about the dangers here. And folks know that if they see a child or pet left in the car, to seek help right away. Cause death can happen quickly.

So I don't think she used the car as a babysitter. If anyone seen her in there, they would have called the police. I don't think she used the trunk, cause then Caylee would have been afraid of her. And she didn't seem to be.

 

[akashana]

I'm thinking it was probably the inside of Casey's car trunk....maybe she called the car "Zanny"...or maybe she just called the trunk "Zanny" but, I have no doubt that that's where she kept little Caylee while she partied. JMO of course. And to think...if this is truly the case, then she'd been using the "Zanny trunk" since her friend stopped watching Caylee.

I respectfully disagree. Except on the coldest nights in south Florida, a car trunk would become a tomb for any living creature after only a short period of time. It's that hot and humid year round. She might have done it - once.

 

[Spangle]

IMHO, it was Casey, Cindy, and what friends Casey could con to watch her. I say con, because it seems she would lie about why she would need a sitter... Like going to work, DR, etc.

As for the parting, etc. Those would be at nights, when Cindy would be home. Such events wouldn't start until late, Caylee would all ready be asleep. Not alot of effort on Cindy's part. Daytime events wouldn't include wild parties. ICA could take Caylee with her, or leave her with Cindy on Cindy's days off. From what we have seen of Cindy, I would guess that Cindy would expect and/or demand Caylee spend time with her.

The Nanny story it to explain that she had full time Job. Cindy worked,so did not watch her full time. Some times ICA would be at home, sometimes at 'work'. IF she worked and Cindy worked, she would claim this friend or that friend watched Caylee. IN reality, she and Caylee might have visited the person. In reality, ICA was the Nanny. Which is why she put it done on the resume. Sounded so good, that even if her Mother was watching Caylee, if she was wanting to impress someone, it sounded better to say Nanny, rather then who was actually watching her at that Moment.

I think Cindy was finally admitting that ICA wasn't working and playing everyone. And She was stealing for funds. If so, then she would start demanding to know more about ICA's day. And only watching Caylee if ICA was going to work. Even if it was late at night, and everyone would have been asleep anyway.

 

[Curious Me]

Knock out drugs seem more likely when I think about AH's "sleepwalking" and having her money stolen right before her PR trip. Casey told AH she had been sleepwalking. I think Casey had some knock out drugs on hand then.

Casey carted Caylee around to parties where other people say the little girl would sleep through all kinds of noise. I do think Casey did use drugs to knock out Caylee when she wanted to, and it was possibly happening more often towards the end.

I don't think she used the car trunk or an abandoned house. Cindy must have had Caylee lots of nights. I remember Casey wouldn't meet with the other TonyR because she didn't have a sitter.

It was odd the SG apt was empty. At first I suspected Casey was an escort, but she wouldn't have had to steal everybody else's money. She was lazier than I thought. I think she had the family house to herself, and spent a great deal of time on computer/phone neglecting Caylee.

 

[daisy.faithfull]

Many of us were posting about whether Caylee had been put in the trunk, chloroform, drugs, heat exhaustion and the possible use of duct tape when Caylee was first reported as missing.

That being said, does anyone remember that a witness in either a salon or tattoo parlor said that she saw Caylee with a rash around her mouth??? It is posted in an early thread.

I can't find it, but that does not mean that it isn't out there. Lots of stuff about pictures of Caylee with a rash around her mouth (http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75596&highlight=rash+caylee%27s+mouth), but I can't find anything about a witness at a tattoo parlor or salon.

I think the idea that chloroform may have been created when the Anthony's tried to cover up the smell in the car is interesting. Would that have knocked them out while they were cleaning or would the levels be too low? Somewhere today I read that ICA might have googled chloroform because of a reference someone made to it on MySpace or Facebook.

 

[Just Jayla]

I can't find it, but that does not mean that it isn't out there. Lots of stuff about pictures of Caylee with a rash around her mouth (http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75596&highlight=rash+caylee%27s+mouth), but I can't find anything about a witness at a tattoo parlor or salon.

I think the idea that chloroform may have been created when the Anthony's tried to cover up the smell in the car is interesting. Would that have knocked them out while they were cleaning or would the levels be too low? Somewhere today I read that ICA might have googled chloroform because of a reference someone made to it on MySpace or Facebook.

It's entirely possible that she saw Ricardo's "Win Her Over With Chloroform" pic he had on his 'puter. It fits in the time range, IIRC. However, there is also a good chance, as (I believe JWG) noted in one of the stickies, that KC was Googling these things due to a fight with CA over-what else?- stolen money. The day or two prior to the seraches there was some theft, IIRC, and the day after the searches she thanks Lee on MySpace for having her back. Fight with mama=donk mama off....or donk kid off, take your pick.
Could be that Rico gave her the idea and she thought of it when CA pizzed her off?
Please let me know if you are interested and I will link the thread where this theory is discussed, just avoiding diving into that pile right now.

 

[daisy.faithfull]

It's entirely possible that she saw Ricardo's "Win Her Over With Chloroform" pic he had on his 'puter. It fits in the time range, IIRC. However, there is also a good chance, as (I believe JWG) noted in one of the stickies, that KC was Googling these things due to a fight with CA over-what else?- stolen money. The day or two prior to the seraches there was some theft, IIRC, and the day after the searches she thanks Lee on MySpace for having her back. Fight with mama=donk mama off....or donk kid off, take your pick.
Could be that Rico gave her the idea and she thought of it when CA pizzed her off?
Please let me know if you are interested and I will link the thread where this theory is discussed, just avoiding diving into that pile right now.

If its easy for you to find the link then I would appreciate it!

 

[daisy.faithfull]

Many of us were posting about whether Caylee had been put in the trunk, chloroform, drugs, heat exhaustion and the possible use of duct tape when Caylee was first reported as missing.

That being said, does anyone remember that a witness in either a salon or tattoo parlor said that she saw Caylee with a rash around her mouth??? It is posted in an early thread.

I was skimming through "The Possible Abuse of Caylee" thread and I found this post from LancelotLink:
I am re-watching YM at the bond hearing and he addresses the abuse allegation as coming from a witness (hair dresser) who reported seeing Caylee with bruises on her arms, legs, body and the mark under her eye. BTW, the bond hearing is even more fascinating now than when I first watched it. JB is , well there are no words...LOL
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5597319&postcount=496"]http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5597319&postcount=496[/ame]

I'm wondering if that is what you are thinking of?

 

[ladylurker]

my 2 cents are in line w/many of you - i don't think the trunk was a possibility, she would have died a long time ago. and i think she would have had a lot of fear going into the car if she was often trapped in it.

I think anybody casey could palm caylee onto watched her, there doesnt seem to have been a motherly bond there from the get go.

i have a question about this one. aren't there pictures of casey breastfeeding caylee? having had two breastfed kids of my own, i guess i do not understand how she could not have bonded in some way... the hormones that float through you during breastfeeding are designed to have you bond. i am also wondering what her birth experience was like? women w/traumatic births can have a harder time bonding w/baby, and sometimes even typical labor pain meds can negatively impact bonding. for a normal person, difficulties like that can be overcome, but for a sociopath i am not so sure about that. especially if she was having a hard time bonding and then her mom was right there bonding away with the baby as if it was her own.

and... why would she choose to breastfeed in the first place?? i sometimes wonder if she didn't have botched attempts at trying to bond; maybe she knew something was amiss and tried to do what she could (e.g. breastfeed) to get the mother-daughter relationship cindy probably told her she SHOULD be having w/her daughter, or something. there are little things like that which don't seem to line up which make me think maybe she tried to bond, it didn't work, and she blamed caylee or her mother for that.

my guess is that casey did at least sometimes try to put forth some sort of effort into taking care of caylee, and probably did watch her during the day (at the very least driving a baby around all day is not much effort if the baby sleeps in the car easily), but it was always a chore she had to do versus spending time with her beloved daughter. i used to have a daycare, and i find babies easier to care for than toddlers. 2s and 3s are hard - they really have a mind of their own, they're harder to distract, they're great with temper tantrums, they're stubborn, they want everything their way, etc. it takes a whole different set of parenting skills to care for an 8-month-old vs a 28-month-old. i'm sure caylee was easier to care for as a baby and young toddler, and as she got closer to her 3rd birthday it just became more and more difficult. babies are also more portable and can be brought around to people's houses more easily versus a toddler/almost preschooler who has a mind of her own, ideas of her own, etc.

long story short - i think casey watched caylee, i think caylee was more rewarding to care for as a baby, and i think as she grew from cute fun baby into "snothead" casey found her to be a real problem. :maddening:

 

[txsvicki]

Casey seems to make herself out to be a victim and uses everyone. Caylee was probably of great use at first to not have to work, to be given money for daily things, and people thought she was cute. Later, she was a heavy responsibility and her possession that she was in danger of losing. Casey used her friends and family, they were objects to her so Caylee must have been as well. Casey, her parents, the grund's, Jesse, and the friend watched Caylee. The imaginary babysitters were to get money, to explain who watched Caylee while she "worked", to get George to put off working (probably), and to make her look like less of a loser to her friends. Caylee was too much trouble I guess, and now it looks like she may even be going to blame her birth on rape. That is something so horrible that could have happened that she told no one. She's told everyone else that her family abused her, beginning with the manipulations of JG who hated her family any way.

 

[Just Jayla]

If its easy for you to find the link then I would appreciate it!

Ugh, I looked at ALL of JWG and BJB's posts, it wasn't them...it'll hit me when I think of the thread I was looking at or if I think of a unique keyword that was discussed, and I'll link. Meanwhile, this has some good info:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...highlight=CINDY+MONEY+FIGHT+MARCH#post6126691

 

[daisy.faithfull]

Ugh, I looked at ALL of JWG and BJB's posts, it wasn't them...it'll hit me when I think of the thread I was looking at or if I think of a unique keyword that was discussed, and I'll link. Meanwhile, this has some good info:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...highlight=CINDY+MONEY+FIGHT+MARCH#post6126691

:tyou:Thank you Just Jayla! That individual post was great, but the thread that its in is a terrific summary/timeline!