Who was George Brody?

[Odyssey]

Hi everyone!

I have read probably around 1500 posts in the last 24 hours, so pardon me if my mind is a bit jumbled lol

I do have a couple questions I am hoping someone could clarify before I do any more searching.

1.) The Margaret Kukoda that is listed in a city directory as widow of John - do we know for sure that is our Margaret? And do we know if she ever did have a husband named John or what his last name may have been?

2.) The lady from the "health studio" who GW contacted following GB's death mentioned Brody living at 1156 Sutter. Do we know if this was a hotel/apartment/house??

3.) Has anyone considered (although maybe a little less relevant) that GB may have been awestruck with Margaret, and that instead of him conning her, he might have actually been a follower of her? Something isn't sitting right with me as far as his apparent worship of one of his "victims" or "followers", if he was just looking for a meal ticket I would think she would have been out of his mind already once she died and he collected the money. Is it possible that "Bobby" was his original name and he learned the whole name change/secrecy stuff from Margaret (who did have legal issues and changed her name, etc) and emulated her lifestyle, then passed it on to GW?

I am not trying to insinuate that Margaret had any sinister intentions or intended to control him - just that maybe he was the obedient disciple of her until Margaret died, then he found his way into the dominant role with GW? Just a thought.

Btw I am amazed at how much has been found so far, and I hope I can help in locating more clues!

 

[Annasmom]

Hi everyone!

1.) The Margaret Kukoda that is listed in a city directory as widow of John - do we know for sure that is our Margaret? And do we know if she ever did have a husband named John or what his last name may have been?

2.) The lady from the "health studio" who GW contacted following GB's death mentioned Brody living at 1156 Sutter. Do we know if this was a hotel/apartment/house??

3.) Has anyone considered (although maybe a little less relevant) that GB may have been awestruck with Margaret, and that instead of him conning her, he might have actually been a follower of her? Something isn't sitting right with me as far as his apparent worship of one of his "victims" or "followers", if he was just looking for a meal ticket I would think she would have been out of his mind already once she died and he collected the money. Is it possible that "Bobby" was his original name and he learned the whole name change/secrecy stuff from Margaret (who did have legal issues and changed her name, etc) and emulated her lifestyle, then passed it on to GW?

I am not trying to insinuate that Margaret had any sinister intentions or intended to control him - just that maybe he was the obedient disciple of her until Margaret died, then he found his way into the dominant role with GW? Just a thought.

Btw I am amazed at how much has been found so far, and I hope I can help in locating more clues!

Hello and welcome, Odyssey (nice name!) Doogie can correct me, but I believe the Margaret who was married to John was a different woman from the MK in our case. Also I believe the Sutter Street address was a hotel. We have lots of documentation which says MK was her real name from very early on and that she had a life under that name even before she came west. Having known GB in person, I do not think he could have been anybody's devotee. I do think he probably considered his "advice and guidance" as being worth his room and board...at least, he never worked, as far as we know. Certainly "Bobby" could have been his original name. I believe it is also a diminutive meaning "Baby" in some languages.

 

[Odyssey]

Hello and welcome, Odyssey (nice name!) Doogie can correct me, but I believe the Margaret who was married to John was a different woman from the MK in our case. Also I believe the Sutter Street address was a hotel. We have lots of documentation which says MK was her real name from very early on and that she had a life under that name even before she came west. Having known GB in person, I do not think he could have been anybody's devotee. I do think he probably considered his "advice and guidance" as being worth his room and board...at least, he never worked, as far as we know. Certainly "Bobby" could have been his original name. I believe it is also a diminutive meaning "Baby" in some languages.

Thank you for the clarification! I plan to go to the library sometime this week coming and just peruse some of the SF newspapers from that time, just to see if I happen stumble onto something. (I don't live in SF but I live near enough that my library has the SF papers). One other thing I would be curious about, if anybody knows, is there any substantial difference between the SF Examiner and the SF Chronicle? I'm not too familiar with them, would one be more likely than the other to have general news about what's going on in the city (as opposed to world news, politics, etc)?

 

[Odyssey]

I also have a suggestion for someone who has an ancestry.com subscription - i tried to do this with what little info a non-subscriber can see, but I think there is a lot more that I can't see.

It seems the addresses where the Oakland Brody lived are also hotels.

1936 - 483 9th St, Oakland
1938-1940 - 534 12th St, Oakland
1944 - 2329 San Pablo Ave

On the search screen, instead of typing a name you can type the address in quotes as a keyword ("483 9th") and it will give you the people who lived at that address. I am wondering if there might be another person who lived at 483 9th in 1936 and at 534 12th in 1938-1940, indicating that he mooched off of someone else before meeting Margaret.

ETA: I am referring to the voter subscriptions database btw...

 

[Annasmom]

Thank you for the clarification! I plan to go to the library sometime this week coming and just peruse some of the SF newspapers from that time, just to see if I happen stumble onto something. (I don't live in SF but I live near enough that my library has the SF papers). One other thing I would be curious about, if anybody knows, is there any substantial difference between the SF Examiner and the SF Chronicle? I'm not too familiar with them, would one be more likely than the other to have general news about what's going on in the city (as opposed to world news, politics, etc)?

Odyssey, the Chronicle has always been the larger newspaper and now is virtually the only newspaper in the city.

 

[Cubby]

I also have a suggestion for someone who has an ancestry.com subscription - i tried to do this with what little info a non-subscriber can see, but I think there is a lot more that I can't see.

It seems the addresses where the Oakland Brody lived are also hotels.

1936 - 483 9th St, Oakland
1938-1940 - 534 12th St, Oakland
1944 - 2329 San Pablo Ave

On the search screen, instead of typing a name you can type the address in quotes as a keyword ("483 9th") and it will give you the people who lived at that address. I am wondering if there might be another person who lived at 483 9th in 1936 and at 534 12th in 1938-1940, indicating that he mooched off of someone else before meeting Margaret.

ETA: I am referring to the voter subscriptions database btw...

Great questions points Odyssey. If you search back, WS user name raf, our wonderful genealogist has found some very very old newspaper archives from the mid 1930's which we believe to be 'our' George Brody.

 

[Odyssey]

Great questions points Odyssey. If you search back, WS user name raf, our wonderful genealogist has found some very very old newspaper archives from the mid 1930's which we believe to be 'our' George Brody.

Yes, I did see that, and I wonder, since he didn't work, who was supporting him then. I am hopeful that searching the voter registration by address might enlighten us.

So we think that he was in Oakland from 1936-1944, and in SF from somewhere in the 1950's until his death? Or do we have a better idea of when he came to SF?

I will try to get to the library on Wednesday or Thursday and search through newspapers.

Thanks!

 

[raf]

I also have a suggestion for someone who has an ancestry.com subscription - i tried to do this with what little info a non-subscriber can see, but I think there is a lot more that I can't see.

It seems the addresses where the Oakland Brody lived are also hotels.

1936 - 483 9th St, Oakland
1938-1940 - 534 12th St, Oakland
1944 - 2329 San Pablo Ave

On the search screen, instead of typing a name you can type the address in quotes as a keyword ("483 9th") and it will give you the people who lived at that address. I am wondering if there might be another person who lived at 483 9th in 1936 and at 534 12th in 1938-1940, indicating that he mooched off of someone else before meeting Margaret.

ETA: I am referring to the voter subscriptions database btw...

Hi, I made this search, and seeming that GB was in Oakland from 1936, no before...
abt the addresses in the interested years:
-483 9th most probably was beetwen: Portland House and La Salle Hotel 489 9th;
Portland House after was called Portland Hotel; the number was changed in the time, but sure I found that in old time was 462 in the 1910; after 470; until to 482; it was a little hotel, max 4 persons resident by year.... all normal persons... from 1920 to 1936 it was chauffers, laborers, plasters, carpenters, teamsters, clerks etc;
La Salle Hotel was in 489 9th ( here was resident also a Anton N Beebe.. surname similar to one used from our GB: Bee... Beebe worked in a garage)...In the 9th st was hotels, reparing cars, garage and a theatre: New Orpheum Theatre...
-I found that in San Pablo ave to number 2329 or 1724 ( I remember not well in this moment, I must search in my notes) was the Marguerite Hotel

In San Pablo ave was this farms and maybe GB working as in someone as jr research assit. :
-Iacuzzi Brothers 2034 San Pablo ave
-Lewis Soap and Chemical Company 2210 San Pablo ave
-B. Cribari and sons 2147 San Pablo ave
-America Tire Boot and Reliner Factory 2623 San Pablo ave
-Lafayette Metals Products Co 2416 San Pablo ave

Any day I give my free time for Anna search also..
Checking all G BRODY, BRADY, BRADLEY, BRODA, BRODE etc...
but nobody matching... the GB on 1941 article, well we think is abt our bad guy, he seeming born around 1907/1908... but for what I can say, after so much researching , is that GB was not the true name...most probably!
regards,
raf

 

[Odyssey]

thanks Cubby, so by 1941 article:

Berkeley, 1941 Oct 2-Suspect freed of picket’s charge

It required a jury but 15 minutes to find Joseoh G Sgroe, 29, innocent of battery charges in connection with alleged assault on a ticket patroling in front on a barber shop at 1906 University Avenue last august 5.
The case was heard in the court of Police judge Oliver Young jr.
According in prosecution witness testimony, as Sgroe who lives at 1912 Sacramento st, was entering the barber shop he saw Picket George Brody, 36, the plaintiff, jot down his license number.
Sgroe retraced his steps, the testimony said, and demanded the memo from Brody. When Brody turned his back. Sgroe slapped him in the face with such force that he spun him around, the testimony related.
At this juncture, Brody, who lives at 1724 San Pablo Avenue, called for help. Patrolman B.W. Gocke responded.

the address of this GB could be of Oakland and not of Berkeley; it could be the same person.... born in 1905, and this matching enough....
I wish to continue in this direction, thanks, raf

By any chance has anyone ordered a copy of this criminal record from the Alameda County Court? If nothing else, it would provide a sample of this George's handwriting to confirm whether he is our George.

 

[raf]

I asked help to my US friend, private detective, and he ordered the copy; but the reply was: they wanted a copy of his Driver’s License and more info to identify the defendant in the battery case involving Joseph Sgroe and G. Brody...
so the request was out....
raf

 

[Odyssey]

Wow I have never heard of the courts asking for a drivers license when requesting public records..

Are you saying they wanted a copy of your friend's drivers license, or of Brody's??

It may not be too difficult for one of us to go down to the courthouse and search ourselves. As the plaintiff, Brody most likely filed a written complaint. I think it would be very interesting to see the handwriting - I think that may be the only way we could know for sure whether Oakland George is our George. It could also elaborate on why he was picketing or if he was with any group that was picketing.

 

[raf]

they wanted the driver license of Sgroe....
my friend, the private detective, made also another request: same reply;
but it would be very interesting to have a copy...
raf

 

[Odyssey]

they wanted the driver license of Sgroe....
my friend, the private detective, made also another request: same reply;
but it would be very interesting to have a copy...
raf

Wow that seems really odd, especially since not everybody involved in court cases even had a drivers license. Usually they have binders for each year full of fiche which list cases by plaintiff & defendant - then you can get the case number from those fiche and then they can easily look it up. (Or you can pay a small fee and they will search it for you)

I will give it a try and see if I can come up with those papers. I'm not crazy about driving around Oakland (since I don't know my way around there) so I will try sending a search request in the mail... (unless someone is in the East Bay and wants to search for it personally?)

 

[Odyssey]

I sent an email to the Oakland Library and requested a city directory lookup for George Brody from 1935-1940, noted that I was particularly interested in who he may have lived with and addresses/occupation.

I haven't analyzed this yet but wanted to post the response I got.

Over the period 1935 through 1940, a George Brody was listed only once, in 1939. He was listed as a clerk residing at 534 - 12th Street in Oakland. He was listed alone and no one else named "Brody" was listed at that address.

If there is any possibility that the name was spelled "Brodie," George Brodie and A. George Brodie were listed in 1935 and 1938 - 1940. Please note that a 1936 city directory was not published for the city of Oakland.

In 1935 an A. Geo. Brodie was listed as a millworker residing at 2400 East 22nd Street in Oakland He was listed alone but an Anna G. Brodie, a stenographer, was listed separately at the same address.

In 1937 A. Geo. Brodie and Anna G. Brodie were again listed at 2400 East 22nd Street. This year a Jean Brodie joins them in the listing.

In 1938 A. Geo. Brodie, Anna G. Brodie, and Jean Brodie were listed again at 2400 East 22nd Street. In the same directory a George Brodie, listed as a clerk, lived at 248 Mather Street in Oakland. Listed separately at that same address were Mrs. Flora Brodie and Howard Brodie.

In 1939 A. Geo. Brodie, Anna G. Brodie, and Jean Brodie were listed again at the same address. Again this year George Brodie was listed as a clerk residing at 248 Mather Street. Listed separately again were Mrs. Flora Brodie and Howard Brodie.

In 1940 a George B. Brodie was listed at 2400 E. 22nd Street (not A. George). Anna G. Brodie was listed separately. There are Brodies listed at 248 Mather Street, but not George.

I hope this helps to answer your question. If you need further assistance with this question, please just reply to this message.

 

[SherlockJr]

Can someone backtrace these Brodie's from 1930 and earlier census?

There is a letter that has not been discussed on this forum. In early 1969, GW drafted a letter and signed Annasmom's name on this letter. GW hand wrote this letter and addressed it to "Mr. Brodie"

 

[Odyssey]

Can someone backtrace these Brodie's from 1930 and earlier census?

There is a letter that has not been discussed on this forum. In early 1969, GW drafted a letter and signed Annasmom's name on this letter. GW hand wrote this letter and addressed it to "Mr. Brodie"

I wonder what he needed a letter like that for??

I don't have an Ancestry subscription so I can't do much as far as the census goes but I do see a George Brodie on the 1918 Voter Registration at the address of 2400 E 22nd as a teamster. Our George would have been too young to vote at that time. I think the George Brodie of 2400 E 22nd may be listed as early as 1910 (different address but listed as teamster)

While on the subject of Brody's in Oakland though, not sure if this has been brought up before, there was a Harry Brody, a Ben & Freda Brody, an Emma Brody and a Herman & Edna Brody in Oakland at the same time the Oakland George Brody was. None would still be living, they all seem to have been born in the late 1800's and may all have ties to Kings County NY.

 

[Julessleuther]

I do not have an ancestry account either, but there is a Howard J Brodie that was born in 1916 in San Francisco. There is also military enlistment info for him from 1938-1946. Perhaps a brother, and that is how Margaret and George met? There is a Flora E Brodie, with a spouse of Ralph from Alameda CA, born about 1900, but I do not see a Flora married to a Howard. There is another Flora born approx 1873. There is a Jean Brodie born about 1881 in Alameda too, so I think Jean and Flora are related? Maybe George's sisters? There is also a George Brodie from Alameda with a birthdate of 1866? Perhaps the father, and OUR George took his fathers name and was REALLY Howard? I do not see any Howards listed in SSDI.

With SSDI, I did find a Jean and Howard Brodie that died in Monroe Cty, NY in the 1970s and 1980s. Maybe Jean and Howard were married?

For the Alameda angle, I found a John Brodie-born 1844, a Mary Brodie-born 1863, a George B Brodie-born 1864, Lizzie J Brodie- born 1883, Annie G Brodie-born 1893, Nella B Brodie (Kirk) -born 1894, Ralph N Brodie-born 1895, Flore E Brodie -born 1898, Phylis G Brodie-born 1902, Earl Brodie-born 1918,

 

[raf]

here the 1930 census:
1930 United States Federal Census
about George Brodie
Name: George Brodie
Home in 1930: Oakland, Alameda, California
Age: 60
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1870
Birthplace: Scotland
Relation to Head-of-house: Head
Race: White
Occupation:

Education:

Military service:

Rent/home value:

Age at first marriage:

Parents' birthplace: View Image
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
George Brodie 60 imm. 1901, NA, shipper- Catton Mills; residence: 2400 E 22th st
Jean Brodie 49 (sister)
Annie Brodie 36 (sister)

raf

 

[raf]

more:

1930 United States Federal Census
about Flora Brodie
Name: Flora Brodie
Home in 1930: Oakland, Alameda, California
Age: 57
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1873
Birthplace: Scotland
Relation to Head-of-house: Head
Race: White
Occupation:

Education:

Military service:

Rent/home value:

Age at first marriage:

Parents' birthplace: View Image
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Flora Brodie 57 head, widow, born in Scotland, imm. 1925, PA, no working
William Brodie 29 son, single, born in Scotland, imm. 1920, NA, book keeper Gas Company
Margaret Brodie 27 daughter, single, born in Scotland, imm. 1925, PA, typist Trudor(?) Company
John Brodie 24 son, single, born in Scotland, imm. 1925, PA, machinist, auto repair shop
Flora, Margaret and John imm. the 15 jan 1925, final destination William Brodie, Santa Rosa, CA;
by ship's manifest: William profession clerk; fair hair, brown eyes; John profession: engineer; brown eyes, brown hair


other Brodie family:

1930 United States Federal Census
about Frank C Brodie
Name: Frank C Brodie
Home in 1930: Oakland, Alameda, California
Age: 54
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1876
Birthplace: Scotland
Relation to Head-of-house: Head
Spouse's name: Eleanor
Race: White
Occupation:

Education:

Military service:

Rent/home value:

Age at first marriage:

Parents' birthplace: View Image
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Frank C Brodie 54 head born in Scotland, imm. 1923, PA, sign painter
Eleanor Brodie 50 wife, born in England, imm. 1923, PA, none
Colin Brodie 23 son, born in Canada-English, imm. 1923, PA, auto repair
Ben Brodie 18 son, ditto , messenger
Lillian Brodie 10 daughter, ditto , none

by ship's manifest: Colin Brodie: brown hair, grey eyes;
Ben Brodie: brown hair, brown eyes
raf

 

[Cubby]

raf, you are awesome! Thanks for the ancestry information. I have an offbeat question. I went back and reread the very first thread here for Anna this morning and noticed George Brody used both an 8-15-1925 and then same month, day, for 1935. Obviously both are very wrong birth years.

Is there a way we can search databases via a first name of george and birth dates for 8-15-05? If so, maybe a list of various names of George and various spellings of Brody might be worth looking at?

Maybe searches are not so simple... but a scan of names maybe?

thanks.

Cubby