"Who would leave children that young alone?"

[sassysleuth]

Thank you so much for answering my questions, Brit!

"The hats you are thinking of come from crackers"

What does the term "crackers" mean in this sentence? Here in the U.S. crackers are 1.) something we eat, also called "soda crackers" by some. I think you might call them "digestive biscuits"? 2.) a racial slur used by African Americans in regard to white folks - currently being talked about in the George Zimmerman trial when Trayvon Martin referred to Zimmerman as a "weird *advertiser censored* cracker" 3.) Historically, around the time of the American Civil War ( early 1860s) in the South it was a pejorative term used by upper class white people about poor white tenant farmers

Back to the Madeline McCann case:

The more I read, the more questions I come up with.

Brit, in the room Medeline disappeared from there is reference to the window, the shutters, and the curtains. I understand window and I understand curtains - which we might call drapes or draperies here in the U.S.

But what is this about "shutters'? They are talking about opening or closing and/or raising and lowering the "shutters" to control light. Then they talk about can they be opened from the outside? Then say no, they were too heavy.

In my own home I have interior, slatted wooden shutters on two bedroom windows. These are custom fitted to fit inside the window frame. They open in the middle. Each panel, left and right is made up of two hinged panels. When opened they can be "folded back" at each side of the window. When closed, there is a little fastener so they can be hooked together. The wooden slats are louvers that can be moved up and down to control light.

Is this what they are talking about? Or what?

Other descriptions made me think these were venetian blinds, but then they talked about them being "heavy". Venetian blinds are not usually heavy here.
But I suppose the wide wooden type with the wide tapes could be heavy-ish to raise and lower.

Thanks for any info you can provide as to the use of the term "shutters".

eta: Here is a quote from the Portugese Police regarding this item. They refer to them as "external blinds". Sheesh, I am getting even more confused!


This is describing the actions of Gerald McCann:

"The deponent ran to the apartment accompanied by the rest of the group who, at the time, were seated at the table. When he arrived at the bedroom he first noticed that the door was completely open, the window was also open on one side, the external blinds almost fully raised, the curtains drawn back, MADELEINE'S bed was empty but the twins continued sleeping in their cribs. He clarifies that according to what KATE told him, that was the scene that she found when she entered the apartment.
----- Then he closed the external blinds, made his way to the outside and tried to open them, which he managed to do, much to his surprise given that he thought that that was only possible from the inside."

Crackers are little foil-wrapped packages that are a Christmas tradition in the UK. They're usually put in the stockings and have things inside, usually a paper hat, a joke or two, and a little toy. We are very much American but we put them in our stockings - they have actually started carrying them in stores in the US such as Target.

 

[jordynsmommy529]

The reference in the statement to external blinds shows the problem with multiple unprofessional translations, shutters became blinds. Also differences between UK English and us English cause problems too, for instance cot is a bed for a baby or young toddler in UK, but I think in the us it is a camp bed type thing. Imagine how that can get confused once multiple translations take place and people use varying English.

BBM

What you guys refer too as cots we call pack-N-plays.

 

[Sharmila]

Im new in these parts. My first comment

So just to throw in my 2 cents. I was under the impression that Maddy was seen last (by anyone other than the family) was when she left the Creche...? I dont think a single person who came to check on her actually saw her when they looked into the room. They just assumed she was sleeping in the dark. Im not by any means a perfect parent. But I cannot go for more than 10 minutes before I feel the need to check on my 3 year old daughter. She's my only child. May be things are different when you have a few kids to juggle. But I still cant imagine leaving them alone in a foreign country.

 

[Clutchbag]

Im new in these parts. My first comment

So just to throw in my 2 cents. I was under the impression that Maddy was seen last (by anyone other than the family) was when she left the Creche...? I dont think a single person who came to check on her actually saw her when they looked into the room. They just assumed she was sleeping in the dark. Im not by any means a perfect parent. But I cannot go for more than 10 minutes before I feel the need to check on my 3 year old daughter. She's my only child. May be things are different when you have a few kids to juggle. But I still cant imagine leaving them alone in a foreign country.

They left three babies combined aged of 7 alone, fact, in an unlocked apartment where they could see nothing and hear nothing, pretty damning

 

[brit1981]

Im new in these parts. My first comment

So just to throw in my 2 cents. I was under the impression that Maddy was seen last (by anyone other than the family) was when she left the Creche...? I dont think a single person who came to check on her actually saw her when they looked into the room. They just assumed she was sleeping in the dark. Im not by any means a perfect parent. But I cannot go for more than 10 minutes before I feel the need to check on my 3 year old daughter. She's my only child. May be things are different when you have a few kids to juggle. But I still cant imagine leaving them alone in a foreign country.

I know I check every few mins when I'm in another room. But listening services are fairly common, even since Madeleine disappeared.

 

[brit1981]

BBM

What you guys refer too as cots we call pack-N-plays.

Never heard the phrase pack n play, but are you certain you ate not talking about what we call a play pen. A cot is a bed with high bars at the side (net in travel cots) and I thought Americans called these cribs.

 

[brit1981]

Crackers are little foil-wrapped packages that are a Christmas tradition in the UK. They're usually put in the stockings and have things inside, usually a paper hat, a joke or two, and a little toy. We are very much American but we put them in our stockings - they have actually started carrying them in stores in the US such as Target.

We tend to use them for Christmas dinner and may put them on the tree in the run up to Christmas.

 

[jordynsmommy529]

Never heard the phrase pack n play, but are you certain you ate not talking about what we call a play pen. A cot is a bed with high bars at the side (net in travel cots) and I thought Americans called these cribs.

No i'am certain they say pack n play on the side and on the box.

 

[deca]

No i'am certain they say pack n play on the side and on the box.

They are generically referred to as play pens (travel cribs with net siding). Pack n play is I think a brand name for the play pens.

 

[Clutchbag]

The facts are thus:

The Mccanns and their friends left their children, two of whom were sick, one with a recently post operative foot, and who on the night was vomiting, luckily her parents caught this in time, the other with sickness and daily diarrhoea, alone, in their flats, a fair distance away where they could not hear or see anything. For at least half an hour at a time. In that time anything could have happened. And, of course, the flat the Mccanns left three babies in was on a corner on a public road and unlocked, they left the back door open, allowing anyone off the streets the opportunity to enter, dreadful!

What makes this even worse is the Mccanns told total strangers they did this every night, they advertised the fact, its crazy. NO SANE MOTHER would ever do this, that is why I think they lied.

Well, no sane mother would leave her babies own their own in the first place. And when she found one of them missing, no sane mother would leave her two remaining kids in a flat she was convinced her first born was abducted from to run away to tell her friends, leaving them exposed, and leaving the door and window open, as if she knew the abductors had gone, it makes zero sense. Therefore she knew Madeleine had not been abducted. It is a staged abduction IMO.

 

[brit1981]

They are generically referred to as play pens (travel cribs with net siding). Pack n play is I think a brand name for the play pens.

That's not what we call playpens in the UK. Play pens are, for want of a better description, a bit like roofless cages for children to keep them in one area to play. Cots and travel cots are just beds for little ones.

 

[brit1981]

The facts are thus:

The Mccanns and their friends left their children, two of whom were sick, one with a recently post operative foot, and who on the night was vomiting, luckily her parents caught this in time, the other with sickness and daily diarrhoea, alone, in their flats, a fair distance away where they could not hear or see anything. For at least half an hour at a time. In that time anything could have happened. And, of course, the flat the Mccanns left three babies in was on a corner on a public road and unlocked, they left the back door open, allowing anyone off the streets the opportunity to enter, dreadful!

What makes this even worse is the Mccanns told total strangers they did this every night, they advertised the fact, its crazy. NO SANE MOTHER would ever do this, that is why I think they lied.

Well, no sane mother would leave her babies own their own in the first place. And when she found one of them missing, no sane mother would leave her two remaining kids in a flat she was convinced her first born was abducted from to run away to tell her friends, leaving them exposed, and leaving the door and window open, as if she knew the abductors had gone, it makes zero sense. Therefore she knew Madeleine had not been abducted. It is a staged abduction IMO.

They were wrong to leave the children. But its documented they did by witnesses, staff even wrote it down days before. And people do leave children like this when they use listening services, its wrong but plenty do it so its not an indication of anything suspect. As for leaving them to raise the alarm, she panicked.

 

[Clutchbag]

They were wrong to leave the children. But its documented they did by witnesses, staff even wrote it down days before. And people do leave children like this when they use listening services, its wrong but plenty do it so its not an indication of anything suspect. As for leaving them to raise the alarm, she panicked.

yea right brit, she panicked, parents panic and protect their kids they dont panic and leave them!
pull the other one!

oh and no, parents dont leave their baby kids in unsecured flats open to every tom dick and harry, theyJUST DONT, full stop

Gerry said oh it felt so safe, then less than an hour later he says to a mate on the phone oh i think paedophiles have taken her?? Did he not worryabout thisBEFORE??? You know a doctor in 2007? Aside from all the media fear,leaving babies and toddlers alone, it never crossed his or HER mind that someone would break into their flat? For whatever reason? Give us a break, LOL

 

[SapphireSteel]

None of the events of that night make sense, and none of them ever will make sense, until the Tapas crew are properly interviewed.

I personally would like to see this occur in a court of law, so they are under oath, compelled to answer, and all of the answers can be compared in the same forum.

To date, this hasn't happened. The Tapas crew packed up and went back to England where the poors are expected to know their place and the Establishment protects the learned classes.

:cow:

 

[deca]

What IS your take on the Tapas friends?

Do you think they know what happened?
Do they suspect something but kept their mouths shut out of self-doubt or loyalty?
Or do they know nothing or think they know nothing?

I can't decide, but I am only slightly familiar with this case.

---posting on this thread because the more appropriate threads seem inactive.

 

[brit1981]

What IS your take on the Tapas friends?

Do you think they know what happened?
Do they suspect something but kept their mouths shut out of self-doubt or loyalty?
Or do they know nothing or think they know nothing?

I can't decide, but I am only slightly familiar with this ccas


---posting on this thread because the more appropriate threads seem inactive.

First none of the friends were ever aguidos and the met stated recently that non oif the group were suspects or persons of interest.

Secondly, not all of the group even knew the McCann's well, some were friends of friends and one was the mother of friends friends. So what reason would they have for helping to cover up a childs death, an innocent three year old. If we were talking of an abusive spouse it might be different, but a child's death, why would you agree to cover that up? Plus when did they plan it as they were not together before dinner and in a small restaurant for dinner we here they could not talk without risking being overheard.

 

[Clutchbag]

First none of the friends were ever aguidos and the met stated recently that non oif the group were suspects or persons of interest.

Secondly, not all of the group even knew the McCann's well, some were friends of friends and one was the mother of friends friends. So what reason would they have for helping to cover up a childs death, an innocent three year old. If we were talking of an abusive spouse it might be different, but a child's death, why would you agree to cover that up? Plus when did they plan it as they were not together before dinner and in a small restaurant for dinner we here they could not talk without risking being overheard.

none of them were needed to cover up

 

[brit1981]

none of them were needed to cover up

So that means you think David Payne was telling the truth that he saw Madeleine that evening, and Jane tanner was telling the truth when she said she saw a man carrying a child.

 

[SapphireSteel]

What IS your take on the Tapas friends?

Do you think they know what happened?
Do they suspect something but kept their mouths shut out of self-doubt or loyalty?
Or do they know nothing or think they know nothing?

I can't decide, but I am only slightly familiar with this case.

---posting on this thread because the more appropriate threads seem inactive.

My take...

You can't lump all the Tapas crew in together.

It's fairly obvious that the ones who helped cover up are the ones the McCanns were close to, eg David Payne (great mate of Gerry) Jane Tanner (ditto, Kate) and respective spouses.

What's interesting is that the ones with the changing/faulty recall are the ones who are the closest to the McCanns. The less well they know them, the less their story changed or even impacted on the investigation.

So, how on earth can the McCanns force their bff's to lie for them?

Considering this crew had a history of skipping off on "family" holidays together (and dumping their kids in care every single time) what on earth can have happened that they all want to keep quiet?

A bit of swinging?

Too much partying and too little care for their kids?

Maybe a spot of local drug sampling?

Some inappropriate humour at one of their soirees - poking fun at the poors or something?

Who knows, but at the end of the day it is glaringly obvious to most that Payne and Tanner both lied through their teeth - and then lied some more.

Don't forget - Gerry was literally at the top of his game as a heart specialist in all of Europe, still is. He was and still is very well respected in the Establishment, but only if he keeps his reputation.

I sometimes wonder if he has political ambitions. On the surface, a very successful individual capable of who knows what? As long as he keeps his reputation.

Losing a child, or accidentally drugging her to death, would potentially ruin all of their careers...at least, affect their ambitions. High stakes indeed when you multiply it by 4.

The above is a theoretical explanation only and :moo:.

:twocents:

 

[brit1981]

My take...

You can't lump all the Tapas crew in together.

It's fairly obvious that the ones who helped cover up are the ones the McCanns were close to, eg David Payne (great mate of Gerry) Jane Tanner (ditto, Kate) and respective spouses.

What's interesting is that the ones with the changing/faulty recall are the ones who are the closest to the McCanns. The less well they know them, the less their story changed or even impacted on the investigation.

So, how on earth can the McCanns force their bff's to lie for them?

Considering this crew had a history of skipping off on "family" holidays together (and dumping their kids in care every single time) what on earth can have happened that they all want to keep quiet?

A bit of swinging?

Too much partying and too little care for their kids?

Maybe a spot of local drug sampling?

Some inappropriate humour at one of their soirees - poking fun at the poors or something?

Who knows, but at the end of the day it is glaringly obvious to most that Payne and Tanner both lied through their teeth - and then lied some more.

Don't forget - Gerry was literally at the top of his game as a heart specialist in all of Europe, still is. He was and still is very well respected in the Establishment, but only if he keeps his reputation.

I sometimes wonder if he has political ambitions. On the surface, a very successful individual capable of who knows what? As long as he keeps his reputation.

Losing a child, or accidentally drugging her to death, would potentially ruin all of their careers...at least, affect their ambitions. High stakes indeed when you multiply it by 4.

The above is a theoretical explanation only and :moo:.

:twocents:

Gerry is a cardiologist at a minor hospital, hardly top of his game in all of Europe. He was unknown by the establishment.

Children to die accidently, normal people do not vilify the patents so Gerry's career would not have been harmed by that. Even if she was drugged it would be easier to say she got hold of it herself than report her missing. Think of this, Gerry has. Been an aguido, been accused of all sorts by early media reports and fanatics online, had fanatics turn up at his workplace and complain to GMC and he admitted leaving his child whilst at dinner. Yet his career has not been harmed, so do we really think losing a child in an accident would harm in. Tanner was not particularly close to the McCann's either, she was a friend of a friend more than anything. And no evidence has come tho light to suggest Payne lied either.
And the McCann's had only been on a group holiday once before for a wedding, and what is wrong with going on holiday with friends, its very common for middle class people.