Why A Scarf?

[BlueCrab]

In the NE book, Patsy is interviewed and it omes out that most of the men at the party were given scarves.

Now for the coo coo theory. Could it be the men given scarves at the party were onto a sex "club" that enjoyed erotic asphysia? And burying JonBenet with one was because she was used in that club?

Becba,

Your theory may not be as coo coo as you think. IMO JonBenet died from asphyxia while erotic asphyxiation (breath control) was being performed on her (probably involuntarily and for sadistic reasons because there were also stun gun injuries on her body).

The practice of erotic asphyxiation sex often requires the use of padding under the ligature so that a tell-tale circumferential abrasion isn't left on the neck, especially if rope is used as the ligature. A soft scarf would serve very well as the padding.

Therefore, the scarf in the casket could indeed have been a ritualistic message.

BlueCrab

 

[Zman]

In the NE book, Patsy is interviewed and it omes out that most of the men at the party were given scarves.

Now for the coo coo theory. Could it be the men given scarves at the party were onto a sex "club" that enjoyed erotic asphysia? And burying JonBenet with one was because she was used in that club?

So what your saying is most of the men in PR's life enjoy some good EA and PR was fond of submitting her 6 year old daughter to the sexual desires of these men? How about the other men's wifes, daughter's and sons? I mean why would JBR be singled out? I don't think you could ever keep such a thing a secret. When that many parents and kids are involved it would eventually come out.

Not to mention that EA is used on one's self for pleasure. The idea is to choke yourself.

 

[Becba]

So what your saying is most of the men in PR's life enjoy some good EA and PR was fond of submitting her 6 year old daughter to the sexual desires of these men? How about the other men's wifes, daughter's and sons? I mean why would JBR be singled out? I don't think you could ever keep such a thing a secret. When that many parents and kids are involved it would eventually come out.

Not to mention that EA is used on one's self for pleasure. The idea is to choke yourself.

Your last sentence is wrong. That is autoerotashyxia when you do it yourself. Not what I am talking about. I don't think JonBenet garroted herself to get sexual kicks.:innocent:

Some people get off on controlling their partners breathing. I said it was a coo coo theory because it is outlandish. But there certainly are pedophile groups out there and groups of married adults into strange sex.

Also I never said PR was fond of lending her child out for something like this. Perhaps there was one of the group that went too far. I was speculating on the fact that the men were given scarves for Christmas and JR puts a scarf on JonBenet in her coffin. Not a favorite scarf of sentimental value but a new one he had picked out. Which is strange to me.

 

[Eagle1]

Would any of our husbands buy a scarf, ever? I don't think so. I don't really believe JR bought one. Since Patsy gave them out as gifts, probably she bought that one too. JR's claiming to have bought it was probably just an excuse to put it into the casket, a way of saying it was special betw him and the child, something of himself.

I'm afraid Becba's probably right.

One thing to remember, it's been 9 yrs and there wouldn't be enough flesh left, if there's any at all by now, to determine if a stun gun was used.

The only thing certain to be learned by exhumation would be the scarf color and material. Obviously the four fibers could have come from a black and red scarf. If I understand correctly, the scarves were like a uniform, all alike. I usually defend "Innocent Until Proven Guilty" when people are way too definite about their guilt, and btw, last night on TV, detectives were saying when people are too insistant that they know something, it's narcissism, a God-complex. But about exhumation, I have to say if I were innocent I'd want it done. I'd want answers, as complete as possible, whatever it takes. JonBenet's no longer in her body so it's not going to disturb her "rest".

These uniform scarves probably show they R's were involved in these weird games all right. "We didn't mean for this to happen," and other remarks would fit in with that. But JR really may have been sleeping because of the upcoming trip, and if PR were there at the too-far moment, she'd have seen JonBenet trying to scratch the cord away, that she was in trouble, I would think, and would interfere.

Unless there's something POLITICAL after all, so big she couldn't stand up to it, which certainly might account for all the LE bungling, no matter that it was a holiday and all that we've heard over and over, and all the friends scarf-owners lying low. Am I the only one who feels a lot of that bungling was after all political, deliberate evasion?

 

[Linda7NJ]

No way would I ever allow them to dig up my child!

If I were innocent, knowing it in my heart would be enough for me. I would have no desire to prove anything to anyone.

If I were guilty, well of course I wouldn't want an exhumation.

 

[Zman]

Your last sentence is wrong. That is autoerotashyxia when you do it yourself. Not what I am talking about. I don't think JonBenet garroted herself to get sexual kicks.:innocent:

Some people get off on controlling their partners breathing. I said it was a coo coo theory because it is outlandish. But there certainly are pedophile groups out there and groups of married adults into strange sex.

Also I never said PR was fond of lending her child out for something like this. Perhaps there was one of the group that went too far. I was speculating on the fact that the men were given scarves for Christmas and JR puts a scarf on JonBenet in her coffin. Not a favorite scarf of sentimental value but a new one he had picked out. Which is strange to me.

Could be wrong about EA. May have my perversions mixed up. Yet still didn't PR give out the scarves? Why would she give out scarves as some kind of "message gift" of this supposed club her daughter is the main attraction to?

 

[Becba]

Could be wrong about EA. May have my perversions mixed up. Yet still didn't PR give out the scarves? Why would she give out scarves as some kind of "message gift" of this supposed club her daughter is the main attraction to?

I didn't mean her daughter was the main attraction. I was guessing there may have been a kind of "club" between the husbands and wives of perverted sex. Someone in the "club" or group took it to far and did it to JonBenet. May have been one of the R's themselves. Or them and another member. Just speculating.
But I think the scarves being gifts to the many of the male friends and JonBenet getting one from her dad right before she is buried is more than a coincidence.
If the R's were a part of a group like this it would be reason for them to participate in a coverup and even have help hiding the truth. It maybe one reason the Whites started acting bizzare. They felt one among them was a murderer of a child.

 

[Zman]

I didn't mean her daughter was the main attraction. I was guessing there may have been a kind of "club" between the husbands and wives of perverted sex. Someone in the "club" or group took it to far and did it to JonBenet. May have been one of the R's themselves. Or them and another member. Just speculating.
But I think the scarves being gifts to the many of the male friends and JonBenet getting one from her dad right before she is buried is more than a coincidence.
If the R's were a part of a group like this it would be reason for them to participate in a coverup and even have help hiding the truth. It maybe one reason the Whites started acting bizzare. They felt one among them was a murderer of a child.

I don't know, that's too many people involved.
One thing about secrets.
The more who know the faster it's no longer a secret.

 

[Becba]

I don't know, that's too many people involved.
One thing about secrets.
The more who know the faster it's no longer a secret.

I have to agree with that. But for the sake of arguement, lol, an example of many people knowing a secret and keeping it quiet could be childpornography.
Apparently there are rings of these people but many of them go on without being caught.
The important part of keeping a secret is if you have a stake in it. Either it benifits you not to tell, or you fear harm if you tell.

 

[Eagle1]

"I have to agree with that. But for the sake of arguement, lol, an example of many people knowing a secret and keeping it quiet could be childpornography.Apparently there are rings of these people but many of them go on without being caught.

The important part of keeping a secret is if you have a stake in it. Either it benifits you not to tell, or you fear harm if you tell."

Yes, good point to remember.

And what about a group called The Thugee, that strangled victims with white scarves? I should have done a search before starting this post, I know. Anyone know anything about them that might help with the JBR case? Were the "friends" maybe imitating them? Or a combination of cults?

I keep remembering PR saying "We didn't mean for this to happen." All of them, not just the R's are apparently covering up, noticeable from when FW claimed the 911 call JonBenet probably started was his, that his mother was in a hospital. When police followed up on the interrupted 911 call, S. Stine turned them away at the door, of the Rs' house, not her own. What the heck was going on? JonBenet was crying, could only explain that she didn't feel pretty, according to McSanta's wife, evidently didn't have words to say she'd been molested at her parents' party and they weren't paying any attention. Two days later, they finally had to take notice, too late. I'm sure they'll never really forgive themselves for such a mistake. It may have been what JR was talking about when he and friends went for a walk toward the foothills and he was heard saying, "I'm so sorry."

If they told such a thing, they'd be getting all those other people in trouble, even worse than throwing one or two under that bus.

 

[Becba]

Still looking thru the NE book and Patsy is shown a picture where John had used up the last couple of pics on a roll of film from Christmas morning and it shows the wet bar and a red and black scarf. Then it says Patsy breaks down and this is the first time she has broken down during the interview.

HMMMM.

 

[capps]

Becba,

This has been discussed in prior posts on ths thread. Post #35 by Tipper states she was thinking of a time when her family was happy and intact. And I agree.

If you read the whole interview of when she was shown that picture of the scarf ... she was also shown a series of pictures of Christmas morning,with JonBenet smiling,and also a picture of Patsy and JonBenet together smiling.Patsy seeing these pictures for the first time,and knowing it was just hours before her death ... I would break down too.

 

[aussiegran]

...................


JonBenet's neck was already injured during a struggle immediately before or after the the head trauma. Perhaps the killer grabbed her at the neck and shook her believing that bruises or marks would appear. Perhaps the killer wrapped a towel around her neck and pulled it tight or jurked it to make her be still for some reason.
The point is
there was some non-lethal trauma to JonBenet's neck prior to or during the head trauma that the killer believed had to be covered and accounted for. The telltale mark that worried the killer was the triangular abrasion to the left of the midline of the anterior lower neck. I have always believed that JonBenet suffered two trumatic injuries to the head and two tramatic injuries to the neck. I believe that the cord strangulation was used to cover a previous evidence of abuse
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Nebula/9337/cord.html
...............
just read this story and I wonder if the scarf was the first item to cause the other neck abrasion .what a good reason for someone to get rid of it by burying it with her.

 

[Rupert]

Surely if the scarf had anything to do with JonBenet's strangulation, the coroner or professionals / bookwriters would have noticed and said something about it. As far as I know, nothing yet ties the scarf to JonBenet's neck injuries. I understand that the neck injuries come from the repositioning and retightening of the garrote.

Apparently PR broke down when shown a picture of that scarf. Why was it special? Perhaps just because it was lovingly purchased to keep her neck warm. Yet they were struck with the terror of what was done to their loving child.

 

[Becba]

Surely if the scarf had anything to do with JonBenet's strangulation, the coroner or professionals / bookwriters would have noticed and said something about it. As far as I know, nothing yet ties the scarf to JonBenet's neck injuries. I understand that the neck injuries come from the repositioning and retightening of the garrote.

Apparently PR broke down when shown a picture of that scarf. Why was it special? Perhaps just because it was lovingly purchased to keep her neck warm. Yet they were struck with the terror of what was done to their loving child.

because a scarf is a buffer, jonBenet did not have a buffer. If the group had a kick of sex and that was part of it someone did not play by the rules and the R's could not let any secret get out as for their reputation and participation.
And don't tell me PR would have told. She is the most hysterical nuerosic personality I have every read of.

 

[BlueCrab]

Okay, the scarf was there Christmas day because John took a picture of it BEFORE he took pictures of the kids Christmas morning.

Was the scarf still there when police took their photos that morning? If it wasn't....then why didn't they question the Ramseys....Mr and Mrs Ramsey, where is the scarf now?

I would love to see the police photos...especially the pictures of the wet bar.

Toltec,

The black and red scarf was in both the Ramsey photo and the police crimescene photo. However, it had been moved from on top of the bar in the Ramsey photo to a small ledge near the bar in the police photo, where it was hanging over the edge.

While reviewing photos of the scarf:

PATSY RAMSEY: "Hanging on, hanging on the little ledge there by the bar. Is that where it was on the other one?"

TRIP DEMUTH: "The other photo we looked at it was on the bar itself."

PATSY RAMSEY: "It was on the bar. This just looks strange to me."


BlueCrab

 

[txsvicki]

Unless JonBenet had given that scarf to her Dad and picked it out herself, I can't imagine anyone wanting to put that into her coffin. After all, a scarf goes around the neck and JonBenet was garrotted. Even if it was a favorite of John's, why would he even want to think of anything going around a neck.

 

[narlacat]

Maybe to hide the marks made from the garrote?

 

[Camper]

I continue on my self imposed 'vacation' from Websleuths. The scarf and pictures of the scarf, along with the un identified fibres on the body are the BIGGEST clues in this entire case, imop.

BUT, the body would have to be exhumed to verify and identify the fibres and their connection to 'the' scarf.

WHERE is the scarf today?

Surely 'the scarf' now has JR's DNA on it since HE placed it in the casket, HOW convenient?

BUT per the DOI book, PR states that the beautiful silk scarf that John put in the casket had been recently purchased, IF I am remembering correctly.

IF IF the fibres on the body match the scarf in the casket, it would tie JOHN DIRECTLY TO THE MURDER.

So, IF they match, they and BPD are covering for the R's young son who could not be prosecuted for the crime. OR R's are covering for their own involvement in the crime, or the older sons involvement.

'The scarf' is a KEY piece of information, where is this scarf today?????? Is it hanging out in archival evidence storage OR has it conveniently disappeared?

IS the scarf in the pictures 'THE' scarf in the casket? OR is it in storage in a brown bag.

Merry Christmas all!!



.

 

[txsvicki]

Maybe to hide the marks made from the garrote?

Was the scarf actually around the neck or just placed into the coffin?