Why Burke's Voice on 911 Call Is The Smoking Gun

[Nehemiah]

Good posts, Ivy. Something about that 911 call bothers me, but I can't put my finger on it.

IMO

 

[K777angel]

Good posts, Ivy. Something about that 911 call bothers me, but I can't put my finger on it.

IMO

When I heard the actual 911 call I did think that Patsy sounded genuinely freaked out and in shock. But what those emotions stemmed from - we cannot truly know. Even if they WERE involved in the crime/staging - she would obviously STILL be in shock and scared out of her pants - about what was very likely going to happen over the next few hours. Depending on when the cops caught on.....

I think the "We have a kidnapping" is very, very strange.

Also, I have always found it odd that Patsy mutters "Help ME Jesus, Help ME Jesus" rather than "Help US Jesus, Help US Jesus" which would have been the mindset given the "kidnapping for ransom" situation she AND John were in.
Afterall - the note was written to John. Yet she asks God to help HER.
I think it is telling.
Her fear at that moment was something like this: "Oh my! Now I've actually placed that 911 call. The cops are actually coming to the HOUSE! JonBenet's body is lying dead downstairs! When will they find it? What questions are they going to ask? What am I going to say? Will they arrest me right away? We better call friends over to stay with Burke in case we are hauled off right away.... I'm SOOOO scared!!"

Help US Jesus would have made more sense. "How can WE get her back? What do they want from US? WE didn't hear anything. WE are so helpless.
WE have to find a solution here. WE are scared. WE need a miracle!"
IF JonBenet had truly been kidnapped by an intruder.

 

[BlueCrab]

Also, I have always found it odd that Patsy mutters "Help ME Jesus, Help ME Jesus" rather than "Help US Jesus, Help US Jesus" which would have been the mindset given the "kidnapping for ransom" situation she AND John were in.Afterall - the note was written to John. Yet she asks God to help HER.I think it is telling. Help US Jesus would have made more sense. How can WE get her back?

Since it was supposed to be a kidnapping with JonBenet likely still alive and they didn't know where she was and how much danger she was in, it seems to me Patsy should have been saying "Help her Jesus, help her Jesus".

JMO

 

[Ivy]

I agree Patsy sounded genuninely freaked out and in shock. I think anyone would be freaking out under the circumstances, even if they themselves were the killer or were covering up for him.

I always took Patsy's "Help me Jesus" as an indication she was struggling for the emotional strength to pull off the coverup without breaking down and blowing it.

IMO

 

[River]

******* has asked her minions to visit other forums and grab BDI posts and post them at the Swamp.

IMO

She'd better not even consider taking a post from this private forum. I'll have a field day with her server on that issue.

 

[BlueCrab]

I agree Patsy sounded genuninely freaked out and in shock. I think anyone would be freaking out under the circumstances, even if they themselves were the killer or were covering up for him.

I always took Patsy's "Help me Jesus" as an indication she was struggling for the emotional strength to pull off the coverup without breaking down and blowing it.

IMO

I agree Ivy. IMO Patsy had just acted out the most important stage play of her career. Patsy perceived she needed Jesus to give her the strength to successfully pull off the performance of a lifetime during the 911 call and be able to survive the emotional aftermath. Patsy sounded totally drained when the 911 call was over and she abruptly hung up (so she thought) and gasped "Help me Jesus, help me Jesus".

JMO

 

[K777angel]

I agree Ivy. IMO Patsy had just acted out the most important stage play of her career. Patsy perceived she needed Jesus to give her the strength to successfully pull off the performance of a lifetime during the 911 call and be able to survive the emotional aftermath. Patsy sounded totally drained when the 911 call was over and she abruptly hung up (so she thought) and gasped "Help me Jesus, help me Jesus".

JMO

Again, the first responding officer's eye-witness description of Patsy (and John) Ramsey is vitally important.
WHAT did her face look like? Was it fully made up - but with very puffy red eyes? As if she'd been crying for hours?
Or was she crying at all at this point?
What about John?
How did they act in those FEW minutes after the officer first arrived and began his search of the house?
Did they try and distract him in any way away from the basement? But realizing they couldn't be "too" obvious - let him go ahead and look there?
Just WHAT was their demeanor?
Were they asking his advice on how to proceed about the most anticipated thing that should have been on their minds at that time: THE PHONE CALL from the "kidnappers"?
This was the ONLY link known to them to JonBenet - via the note.
They should have been OBSESSED with that note and promised phone call.
But what has been reported - and by officers ON THE SCENE - is that the note was IGNORED - it lay strewn on the floor. And when Det. Arndt asked the men there - including John Ramsey - just WHO they thought "could" be involved - everyone had an opinion - but John remained SILENT.
Then - the officer reported that when the magic time of 10:00am came and went with no phone call from the "kidnappers" - there was no reaction from the Ramseys.
HUH?
So - they ignored the note. They ignored the crucial time range for the phone call regarding their precious daughter that was supposed to come in.

"Help ME Jesus" I think, and have always felt - was just that.
Help ME pull this off. For I may crack.....

 

[Nehemiah]

I think the "We have a kidnapping" is very, very strange.

Also, I have always found it odd that Patsy mutters "Help ME Jesus, Help ME Jesus" rather than "Help US Jesus, Help US Jesus" which would have been the mindset given the "kidnapping for ransom" situation she AND John were in.
Afterall - the note was written to John. Yet she asks God to help HER.

I could envision Patsy saying "Help ME, Jesus" if she senses that John is always the calm and collected one and that she is usually the emotional basket case type reactor. I think she was feeling the need to have strength herself, knowing that John was stronger emotionally.

IMO

 

[K777angel]

I could envision Patsy saying "Help ME, Jesus" if she senses that John is always the calm and collected one and that she is usually the emotional basket case type reactor. I think she was feeling the need to have strength herself, knowing that John was stronger emotionally.

IMO

Had this comment by Patsy been overheard later in the day your statement might be more applicable. But because we are talking about the very moment she hung up the phone after calling 911 - this puts her mindset in a different perspective.
Had there truly been a kidnapping with a note addressed to John to get money and we will return your daughter - Patsy would have had a "we" mentality at that moment when reporting the crime.
Instead - her mentality is focused on helping "ME" Jesus. Calling on Him to help "her."

 

[TLynn]

Sissi,

How do you answer to Smit re: the open window - which never was?

 

[Toth]

Lou Smit was not "on the team".
He did not view the goal as getting the Ramseys; he viewed it as investigating the murder.
Even DA-Hunter who had hired Smit out of a field of 28 candidates ignored Lou Smit and continued to go after the Ramseys, albeit with more restraint than the gung-ho BPD who wanted to just slap them into a cell and watch them crumble.

 

[Shylock]

This is Lou Smit.
His reputation and experience speak for him.

Maybe that WAS Lou Smit. Now Smit has been reduced to nothing but a limelight-seeker who will do and say anything to make himself standout so he can tell himself he's still important..
-He ignores crucial evidence, like the pineapple and 911 tape.
-He makes up his own evidence, like the pineapple being served out of a tupperware bowl, and the "disturbance" at the window, when he knows full well the filthy window sill shows nobody went in that window.
-He prefers delusional ideas like stun gun use over considering the obvious suspects who were in the house.
-And he shows the world that he is technically ignorant by claiming an electrical arc can turn a person's skin blue.

Whatever Lou Smit might have been, is a far cry from the delusional old publicity hound he is now. And it's sad that a nice little girl who was murdered will never receive any justice--in part because of some senile old fart who should have been in Arizona playing shuffleboard.

IMO

 

[Toth]

>Maybe that WAS Lou Smit. Now Smit has been reduced to nothing but a limelight-seeker who will do and say anything to make himself standout so he can tell himself he's still important..
.........No one else sees such a profound change in his character.

>when he knows full well the filthy window sill shows nobody went in that window.
There is evidence that some debris may have been brought in by the intruder.

>He prefers delusional ideas like stun gun use
Such delusional ideas are also preferred by experienced forensic investigators.
>in part because of some senile old fart who should have been in Arizona playing shuffleboard.
Lou Smit prefers 'Seasoned Investigator' to senile old fart, but has been called far worse.

 

[Shylock]

There is evidence that some debris may have been brought in by the intruder.

Thank you Toth, that is exactly the type of delusional hogwash that Smit promotes which completely discredits anything that comes out of his mouth!

A window that was broken for MONTHS - and a styrofoam packing peanut that could have blown in MONTHS before the crime, has deLOUsional Smit making claims of "intruder" evidence. Never mind the fact that the window sill is filthy and shows droplet marks from the last rain WEEKS before the day of the crime. Or how about a mark on the wall that again could have been there for months, along with broken glass from the window which was never cleaned up because the basement was a complete pig sty.
"Ignore reality and go with the fantasy", that's obviously Smit's motto.

The way to judge Smit is to compare him to his peers. In no other murder case has a homicide detective ignored the factual evidence and based his case on theoretical evidence which can't even be dated to the week of the crime. Smit might make a good Hollywood script writer, but by LE professional standards he fails miserably as a detective.

 

[BlueCrab]

This sort of skepticism is EXACTLY what is warranted here. Indeed, the only "on the record" source for the claim that Burke's voice is on the tape is STEVE THOMAS! There has been no independent corroboration of this (even off the record!) by any of the people involved in enhancing the tape, by the DA's office or by an any LE official or other individuals connected to GJ. Indeed, the only other independent accounts allude to there being a disagreement in interpretation of what these voices allegedly say. It's very clear from the remnants we do have available that people hear what they want to hear (including Steve Thomas!).

I am not familiar enough with the case to start a list of the known lies Steve Thomas has told, but I do know that there are BDIers such as BlueCrab who are smart enough to see through Steve Thomas's spinning and selective presentation of evidence to realize that his PDI theory doesn't hold water. Yet mysteriously, these same individuals rely with 100% confidence on the credibility of Thomas's claims about Burke's being on the tape because they "need" his account about Burke being on the tape to be true in order to support their own BDI theory.

I agree with DW that Steve Thomas didn't impress me with his truthfulness. Thomas flat-out lied about Patsy being the only one of 73 persons who were examined by the CBI who couldn't be excluded as the writer of the ransom note. Thomas was the BPD's main "leaker" of evidence (he was, for instance, the person who in 1997 leaked the first responder's report to Ann Bardach of Vanity Fair). Thomas' lies and misquoting of the evidence led to his being fired, even though he was allowed to save face and go out in a blaze of glory with his resignation letter dated on JonBenet's birthday.

Thomas' "investigation" was centered on his PDI theory at the near exclusion of all other suspects. He didn't consider John or Burke or an intruder as serious options.

Thomas gave John and Burke passes to "get out of jail free" and therefore didn't interpret the voices at the end of the 911 tape as damning evidence that Burke was being shielded when all three Ramseys lied about Burke being in bed when he was actually up and talking to his parents.

JMO

 

[TLynn]

ST's PDI theory is as good as any other...actually, better - since all evidence points toward her.

 

[little1]

The way to judge Smit is to compare him to his peers. In no other murder case has a homicide detective ignored the factual evidence and based his case on theoretical evidence which can't even be dated to the week of the crime. Smit might make a good Hollywood script writer, but by LE professional standards he fails miserably as a detective.

Does that mean he should actually be judged by people who have worked a homocide beofre as opposed to every single detective assigned in the Ramsey investigation?

You guys should be ashamed of yourselves talking about an old man who was just trying to avenge a little girls death.

The questions Smit asked were questions that the BPD refused to acknowledge. If the BPD had investigated the crime the way it should have been, instead of ONLY looking at the R's early in the investigation and NO one else, he probably would not have had to ask those questions.

 

[Shylock]

You guys should be ashamed of yourselves talking about an old man who was just trying to avenge a little girls death.

Oh baloney...This washed-up old has-been and his stupid ideas is one of the reasons there will never be any justice for that little girl. This case really didn't need a toothpick-sucking old man with a hillbilly vocabulary that thinks he's Wyatt Earp.

 

[little1]

Oh baloney...This washed-up old has-been and his stupid ideas is one of the reasons there will never be any justice for that little girl. This case really didn't need a toothpick-sucking old man with a hillbilly vocabulary that thinks he's Wyatt Earp.

Um, obviously they did--the case isn't solved yet. Obviously this case neede more than that. You can be disrespectful all you want towards the man, it just makes your discussions seem weaker.

How have his ideas inhibited justice for JBR? Could it also not have been the *advertiser censored***d up crime scene? Or the bumbling cops? Or maybe the parents? Or the fact that Eller would not even TRY to look at anyone besides the Ramseys? There are many reasons that this case went wrong, he is not one of them, IMO. You know, if we went by record alone, Smit would blow every detective on this case out of the water.

 

[Toltec]

Um, obviously they did--the case isn't solved yet. Obviously this case neede more than that. You can be disrespectful all you want towards the man, it just makes your discussions seem weaker.

How have his ideas inhibited justice for JBR? Could it also not have been the *advertiser censored***d up crime scene? Or the bumbling cops? Or maybe the parents? Or the fact that Eller would not even TRY to look at anyone besides the Ramseys? There are many reasons that this case went wrong, he is not one of them, IMO. You know, if we went by record alone, Smit would blow every detective on this case out of the water.

That is total hogwash...hundreds of people were looked at. I am tired of hearing that the Ramseys were the only ones looked at.

Steve was not the only investigator on the team. Steve's job was to interview employees at Access Graphics, not gather evidence in the home. He was not on the team until three days after the murder.

Steve heard the 911 tape in it's entirety and why would he lie about hearing Burke's voice on the tape? If he claimed to hear Patsy say "Help me Jesus" (WHICH IS CLEARLY HEARD ON THE TAPE) then why would he lie about hearing Burke and John?

WHY LIE????