Why did Madeleine 'go missing'?

[saggymoon]

You are within your rights to have theories and speculate.

 

[Tink]

I hadn't realized that two of these kids were actually sick - the one had diarrhea at least and then another had thrown up in the night. And yet they left them alone and headed off to the restaurant with their friends. The whole group of them were apparently less than devoted parents. Very sad.

Tink

 

[saggymoon]

I hadn't realized that two of these kids were actually sick - the one had diarrhea at least and then another had thrown up in the night. And yet they left them alone and headed off to the restaurant with their friends. The whole group of them were apparently less than devoted parents. Very sad.

Tink

Yes two of them were sick and madeleine the third had complained the day before apparently about her parents not coming to her when she and her brother cried

 

[SapphireSteel]

Yes two of them were sick and madeleine the third had complained the day before apparently about her parents not coming to her when she and her brother cried

Not only did they cry, allegedly they cried for AN HOUR AND A HALF - there was no convoluted half hourly "checking" system going on that night, nor on any other night of their holiday.

I am a mother cannot fathom her coldness. Mums know that babies left to cry for extended periods of time can become so distressed that they can vomit (Kate was a doctor too!). I cannot imagine what poor little Madeline experienced, crying herself while listening to her tiny brother screaming, and being scared and frightened and alone and unable to help him.

Kate knew this had happened, by her own admission.

Kate was still able the VERY NEXT EVENING to bathe her children, put them to bed, sit and have a lovely glass of wine, while relaxing and applying her make up.

She then went to Tapas, leaving her babies alone YET AGAIN, without turning a hair.

She did not secure a listening service.
She did not secure a carer.
She did not lock the apartment door.
She did not skip a meal that she had already eaten with the same faces, every single evening of their holiday.
She did not gobble something quick and head back to the apartment - in fact she was merely "checking" her children one and a half hours INTO the meal, apparently with the intent of RETURNING to the restaurant afterwards.
She did not, at any stage, search for her daughter.

I can go on and on...but I'm sure you get my drift.

Nothing KM did that evening was indicative of a loving mother...or even a competent one.

 

[saggymoon]

Kate mccann was a useles uncaring mother that has been established

 

[Tink]

But knowing that others in the group were equally cold about their own children - leaving them alone like that when they knew they were sick (as well as knowing that Madeleine and her brother had been crying and scared) - adds some credence to the possibility that they would help the McCanns cover up if something bad had happened. The welfare of children was not a priority for any of them.

Even reading the comments by that mother whose baby had diarrhea - her concern was about the smell, something that bothered the ADULTS if the baby was left without changing for too long. No concern for the baby lying there with a filled diaper, which often causes a bad diaper rash and is certainly not very pleasant or comfortable for the baby.

Tink

 

[saggymoon]

But knowing that others in the group were equally cold about their own children - leaving them alone like that when they knew they were sick (as well as knowing that Madeleine and her brother had been crying and scared) - adds some credence to the possibility that they would help the McCanns cover up if something bad had happened. The welfare of children was not a priority for any of them.

Even reading the comments by that mother whose baby had diarrhea - her concern was about the smell, something that bothered the ADULTS if the baby was left without changing for too long. No concern for the baby lying there with a filled diaper, which often causes a bad diaper rash and is certainly not very pleasant or comfortable for the baby.

Tink

All of them were guilty of neglect apart from the ones that took a baby monitor with them, but yes how does any parent leave a sick child on their own and go out to eat and drink

 

[brit1981]

I do not thin taking a baby monitor is any better. It is not always easy to hear if a monitor has been switched off, and they were using it at a busy table with people laughing and talking. If soemone had creeped in quitely it is not certain they would have heard. (I am assuming it was just a sound monitor, but you can get monitors that alert to sound and movement)

But tink, there is a big difference betwene thinking it is OK to leave your children like that, and thinking it is OK to take part in covering up a child's death. And my experience of selfish people, is that they are selfish to others, and would not implicate themselves in something criminal as a favour to someone they did not know well. Apart from the fact it is a huge leap from leaving your child to covering up a death, I cannot see someone who is of the mindset that if they want to go for dinner, that is it they are going sick child or not, agreeing to involve themselves in a crime for a friend of a friend.

 

[SapphireSteel]

I do not thin taking a baby monitor is any better. It is not always easy to hear if a monitor has been switched off, and they were using it at a busy table with people laughing and talking. If soemone had creeped in quitely it is not certain they would have heard. (I am assuming it was just a sound monitor, but you can get monitors that alert to sound and movement)

But tink, there is a big difference betwene thinking it is OK to leave your children like that, and thinking it is OK to take part in covering up a child's death. And my experience of selfish people, is that they are selfish to others, and would not implicate themselves in something criminal as a favour to someone they did not know well. Apart from the fact it is a huge leap from leaving your child to covering up a death, I cannot see someone who is of the mindset that if they want to go for dinner, that is it they are going sick child or not, agreeing to involve themselves in a crime for a friend of a friend.

People absolutely do not go that far to cover for friends, unless of course they believe they may be held liable in some other way.

For instance, their initial involvement could merely been to cover their own professional lily white reputations. If neglect charges had been filed against the McCanns, it follows that the others involved in the "listening" schedules could also be charged with neglect.

These are not a bunch of truck drivers or waitresses - they are wealthy, important people who are very used to telling the less fortunate how to live their lives, and to be found guilty of neglect of their tiny children would ruin their careers and their reputations.

It is clear by the careless way they all treated their children, that they are intensely selfish human beings, and in the kerfuffle of a cover up, would put their own interests above those of a "missing" child...especially as no child would be missing AT ALL if they weren't all having a good time at Tapas instead of taking care of their responsibilities.

Essentially, years of study, hard work, earned respect and the belief you are superior to the rabble would go down the tubes in one night, because your selfish behaviour became known to the public, and caused a little girl to die alone...I can EASILY see how a cover up appeared to be the simple, butt-covering solution for all of them. No doubt they relied on the "incompetence" of the Portugese police who indeed reacted as predicted and blindly accepted an abduction in the first instance. It was the BRITISH POLICE who developed and presented evidence of the McCanns guilt, then inexplicably withdrew all co-operation once the British government became involved.

 

[~n/t~]

I hadn't realized that two of these kids were actually sick - the one had diarrhea at least and then another had thrown up in the night. And yet they left them alone and headed off to the restaurant with their friends. The whole group of them were apparently less than devoted parents. Very sad.

Tink

The even sadder part, IIRC (it's been a long time since I've followed this case) is one of the couples had their mother there - Diane Webster (Fiona's mom) and I believe one of the sick children was her child. Instead of leaving the baby with grandma (as any normal person would do), grandma instead joins them for drinks and dinner leaving the sick child in the apartment alone being watched by a baby monitor.

Ugh!

 

[~n/t~]

Tapas 7

Grandma Webster was part of the 7.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...viewed-review-Madeleine-McCann-abduction.html

 

[SapphireSteel]

A truly disgraceful bunch of people...and to think they are considered "pillars of society".

Why are they all wearing black? The McCann foundation insists Madeline is still alive.

Maybe they know something we dont...

:moo:

 

[brit1981]

Theyb were not wealthy and important people, they were prefectly ordinary people. Is this an American thing to think doctors are these really important and wealthy people, and that the law would be bent for them?

Whatever people think of leaving children like that it was not illegal, and they would have faced no charges. The fact is they all admit leaving their children, so covering up a death to avoid the police finding out what they told them straight away seems a bit pointless. The british police provided assistance with the dogs, and the FSS, and the material from this was used by the PJ as the evidence against the Mccanns so it is misleading to claim the british police came up with the evidence against the mccanns and then withdraw support. They have not withdrawn support, and there is no government conspiracy.

Also are you saying the photos looks like people going to a funeral? That would be a really slobby funeral. the two men are wearing dark suits, with pale ties - certainly not funeral wear. One woman is wearing a brown outfit, one woman is wearing a black dress and red scarf, another woman is wearign a cream top but has a black coat over it (most people in the UK wear black coats), and another woman is wearing a green top. Again nto exactly noraml funeral or mourning wear, it is really grasping at straws to imply guilt because people weare semi-smart clothing, some of which is black. They look like they are wearing normal work clothes.

 

[Pisces Cloud]

Theyb were not wealthy and important people, they were prefectly ordinary people. Is this an American thing to think doctors are these really important and wealthy people, and that the law would be bent for them?

Whatever people think of leaving children like that it was not illegal, and they would have faced no charges. The fact is they all admit leaving their children, so covering up a death to avoid the police finding out what they told them straight away seems a bit pointless. The british police provided assistance with the dogs, and the FSS, and the material from this was used by the PJ as the evidence against the Mccanns so it is misleading to claim the british police came up with the evidence against the mccanns and then withdraw support. They have not withdrawn support, and there is no government conspiracy.

Also are you saying the photos looks like people going to a funeral? That would be a really slobby funeral. the two men are wearing dark suits, with pale ties - certainly not funeral wear. One woman is wearing a brown outfit, one woman is wearing a black dress and red scarf, another woman is wearign a cream top but has a black coat over it (most people in the UK wear black coats), and another woman is wearing a green top. Again nto exactly noraml funeral or mourning wear, it is really grasping at straws to imply guilt because people weare semi-smart clothing, some of which is black. They look like they are wearing normal work clothes.

Agreed. Some people are talking as if they all left the children to go to another town to party. Yes, with hindsight it was the wrong thing to do, but I really don't think that makes them guilty of anything else. As far as I'm aware the bar was across the pool at the back of the apartment, so not that great a distance, and the kids were being checked on at regular intervals. I just think the people involved probably grew up in an era when it was quite common for kids to be left like that when on holiday at complexes, because it was felt to be safe. After all it isn't as if British children are disappearing regularly in this manner. Even though it is rare stranger abductions do happen and unfortunately I believe someone did see a pattern forming and then took their chance. At least one good thing might have come out of all this and that's people might be more careful now when holidaying at those type of resorts.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Agreed. Some people are talking as if they all left the children to go to another town to party. Yes, with hindsight it was the wrong thing to do, but I really don't think that makes them guilty of anything else. As far as I'm aware the bar was across the pool at the back of the apartment, so not that great a distance, and the kids were being checked on at regular intervals. I just think the people involved probably grew up in an era when it was quite common for kids to be left like that when on holiday at complexes, because it was felt to be safe. After all it isn't as if British children are disappearing regularly in this manner. Even though it is rare stranger abductions do happen and unfortunately I believe someone did see a pattern forming and then took their chance. At least one good thing might have come out of all this and that's people might be more careful now when holidaying at those type of resorts.

Your post overlooks all the evidence in this case. It has not turned out to be a simple "oopsie, won't do that again".

It has cost the British tax payer millions of pounds, attracted secret discussion and attention from three separate governments, and the British Police themselves are the ones who developed the evidence implicating the McCanns, and then essentially hushed it up.

This case stinks of collusion and cover up, at the highest level. We have proof of this.

 

[FairM]

ok , here's my twopenneth for what it's worth.

It was wrong to leave the children alone in that room while they went out to eat..totally wrong.

There is no credible evidence in my view to suggest that the parents had anything to do with her disappearance. (apart from leaving them that is)

My view is that the patio door was left ajar...Madeleine woke and wondered off......unfortunately she was found by someone who took advantage of the situation rather than a good person.

 

[FairM]

A truly disgraceful bunch of people...and to think they are considered "pillars of society".

Why are they all wearing black? The McCann foundation insists Madeline is still alive.

Maybe they know something we dont...

:moo:

they are standing outside a court building.....its usual to wear black or sombre clothing in that situation.!

you weren't seriously readind something into this by virtue of the colour of their clothing!:what:

 

[brit1981]

they are standing outside a court building.....its usual to wear black or sombre clothing in that situation.!

you weren't seriously readind something into this by virtue of the colour of their clothing!:what:

If you actually look at their clothes, they are not even wearing all black - the men do nto even have blac ties on.

 

[brit1981]

Your post overlooks all the evidence in this case. It has not turned out to be a simple "oopsie, won't do that again".

It has cost the British tax payer millions of pounds, attracted secret discussion and attention from three separate governments, and the British Police themselves are the ones who developed the evidence implicating the McCanns, and then essentially hushed it up.

This case stinks of collusion and cover up, at the highest level. We have proof of this.

First of all the British police did not develop evidence, they provided the dogs and FSS services which the PJ thought was enough evidence.

Secondly, if you honestly believe you have evidence of a cover up at the highest level, then why do you not show this evidence. Send it to a whistleblowing site, put it up here. So far your evidence has all been rumour, and misinformation. You have claimed or implied the british police are involved, the US ambassador was involved, the Portuguese government was involved, the UK government was involved, all of the mccanns friends were involved, all of the mccanns relatives were involved, mark warner workers were involved, the fss were involved, the fss was in fact not a government owned company charges with examining forensic evicense and maintaining the national dna database like it and the overnment claimed, but in fact a private company with no legal right to look at dna, and links to the mccanns. When asked who was giving you these "facts" you claimed it came from a wikileaks cable where a UK ambassador or consulate who did not work on the case, told a US ambassador the UK police developed the evidence against the mccanns. Thats it.

 

[SapphireSteel]

First of all the British police did not develop evidence, they provided the dogs and FSS services which the PJ thought was enough evidence.

The communication written by US Ambassador, Al Hoffman, refers to an earlier meeting between himself and the British Ambassador, Alexander Wykeham Ellis and states


"Without delving into the details of the case, Ellis admitted that the British police had developed the current evidence against the McCann parents, and he stressed that authorities from both countries were working co-operatively."

This is a fact. You are essentially accusing the US Ambassador of lying, not me.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11988094

Secondly, if you honestly believe you have evidence of a cover up at the highest level, then why do you not show this evidence. Send it to a whistleblowing site, put it up here.

Already done. See: wikileaks.

So far your evidence has all been rumour, and misinformation.

No, it has not. Further, where is YOUR evidence to support YOUR claims?

You have claimed or implied the british police are involved,

They were, and are

the US ambassador was involved,

He was

the Portuguese government was involved,

They were

the UK government was involved,

They were

all of the mccanns friends were involved,

They were

all of the mccanns relatives were involved,

Where did I state this?

mark warner workers were involved,

Where did I state this?

the fss were involved,

They were

the fss was in fact not a government owned company charges with examining forensic evicense and maintaining the national dna database like it and the overnment claimed, but in fact a private company with no legal right to look at dna,

Where did I state this?

and links to the mccanns.

Where did I state this?

When asked who was giving you these "facts" you claimed it came from a wikileaks cable where a UK ambassador or consulate who did not work on the case, told a US ambassador the UK police developed the evidence against the mccanns. Thats it.

<modsnip> Why on earth would any ambassador be involved in a MISSING CHILD CASE? Why would a government be involved? It is a Police matter. There has never been government involvement in any missing child case, ever before. Why this one?

<Modsnip>