Why did Madeleine 'go missing'?

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Why did Madeleine 'go missing'?

  • She was abducted

    Votes: 187 36.7%
  • She wandered off and disappeared

    Votes: 14 2.8%
  • She was overdosed on sedatives; parents covered it up

    Votes: 168 33.0%
  • She met with an accident; parents covered it up

    Votes: 65 12.8%
  • One of her parents was violent to her and killed her

    Votes: 63 12.4%
  • Any other reason Madeleine went missing

    Votes: 12 2.4%

  • Total voters
    509
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No, that's not the section I'm pointing to. I'll quote you the relevant section again...

The proven capability of the EVRD is to:

Search to locate very small samples of human remains, body fluids and blood in any environment or terrain.
 
No, that's not the section I'm pointing to. I'll quote you the relevant section again...

The proven capability of the EVRD is to:

Search to locate very small samples of human remains, body fluids and blood in any environment or terrain.

I bet its not. Thanks anyway, good find!
 
The "cadaver" thing is autopsied on the cadaver dog thread.

Cadaver is and will always be intrinisically different to other human remains, including blood noses, semen,and what they call "disarticulations" eg, anything severed from the body when the victim is still alive.

It's all on the cadaver dog thread, my post 201 if anyone's interested, top of page 9.

:cheers:
 
The "cadaver" thing is autopsied on the cadaver dog thread.

Cadaver is and will always be intrinisically different to other human remains, including blood noses, semen,and what they call "disarticulations" eg, anything severed from the body when the victim is still alive.

It's all on the cadaver dog thread, my post 201 if anyone's interested, top of page 9.

:cheers:
exactly not rocket science is it, enhanced IE trained on realhumancadavers as eddie was in the usa, eddie trained on decomposing human remains that he would bark at sperm, body odour,womens periods, urine clipped toenails and all the other excuses offered is stupid, and not forgetting he never barked anywhere in pdl except in the place where a child went missing from

As i said not rocket science really
 
I bet its not. Thanks anyway, good find!

No, go back and read it again. Eddie, the EVRD dog was trained to alert to cadavers, body fluids, and blood. Its stated three times in that link, I don't know what you think you're reading that says otherwise.
 
No, go back and read it again. Eddie, the EVRD dog was trained to alert to cadavers, body fluids, and blood. Its stated three times in that link, I don't know what you think you're reading that says otherwise.

body fluids from cadavers, not live people
 
body fluids from cadavers, not live people

the dog was trained on DEAD pigs and also trained forsix months on human cadavers in the usa
, ie DEAD people
He was also trained to ignore any other other scents other than cadaver scent
so anyone who says he was alerting to pee or pooh is having a laugh

RIP Eddie xxxxxx
 
the dog was trained on DEAD pigs and also trained forsix months on human cadavers in the usa
, ie DEAD people
He was also trained to ignore any other other scents other than cadaver scent
so anyone who says he was alerting to pee or pooh is having a laugh

RIP Eddie xxxxxx

BBM.

Where does it state that in the link I posted?
 
BBM.

Where does it state that in the link I posted?
maybe not to your link but fact remains eddie was trained to ignore any kind of meat and also live scents
He really was trained on decomposing bodies albeit pigs whichhave the closest link to humans, strange that too, and spent six months inthe usa training on real human cadavers, i think his cv was solid and his track record too

Someones BO or semen or fallen out rotten tooth and all the ridiculous excuses put forward for a cadaver dog alerting only alerting to the place of a missing person and no where else hardly qualifies IMO as an explanation
 
He really was trained on decomposing bodies albeit pigs whichhave the closest link to humans, strange that too, and spent six months inthe usa training on real human cadavers, i think his cv was solid and his track record too

this probably belongs more on the cadaver thread but a recent paper by Cablk studied the VOC (volatile organic compounds) produced by cow, chicken, pig, and humans. It was determined that pig VOCs were not found to be a subset of humans sharing in common only 7 of the 30 known human-specific compounds. In addition, 9 other VOCs were ID'd to pigs that are unknown to human samples. The surprising result was that chickens share the most VOCs in common with human decomp sample.
 
this probably belongs more on the cadaver thread but a recent paper by Cablk studied the VOC (volatile organic compounds) produced by cow, chicken, pig, and humans. It was determined that pig VOCs were not found to be a subset of humans sharing in common only 7 of the 30 known human-specific compounds. In addition, 9 other VOCs were ID'd to pigs that are unknown to human samples. The surprising result was that chickens share the most VOCs in common with human decomp sample.

What can I say to that? Amazing if true. So, the dog alerted to chicken fillets? In the wardrobe?
 
Lol yes focusing on the cadaver dogs training is like looking at the cutlery on the Titanic.

The fact is the dogs got results, and the forensics backed them up.

There was a dead body in Apartment 5a, and several other places besides, and that dead body shared 15 out of 19 DNA markers with Madeleine.

Please explain.

:banghead:
 
the dog was trained on DEAD pigs and also trained forsix months on human cadavers in the usa
, ie DEAD people
He was also trained to ignore any other other scents other than cadaver scent
so anyone who says he was alerting to pee or pooh is having a laugh

RIP Eddie xxxxxx

Has Eddie died?
 
yes he died earlier this year from cancer


Sapphire loving your titanic comment

the 15/19 markers were from the sample taken out of thecar boot which keela the blood dog alerted to

it could have just been blood from a nose bleed or something and the hanky was there.hmmmm

The fss said because the sample was mixed from dna of three to possibly five people they couldnt rule it in or out as madeleines dna

still, the fact remains the cadaver dog reacted to many places and his alerts have not been explained or proved to be not from a dead body unless you want to believe posters likebrit81 who assert cadaver dogs react to hair from living people LOL, even if it was true, like no one else shed a hair in pdl wherethe dogs were taken, barmy logic

Cadaver dog reacted ONLY to places and items connected with missing child, thats the crux and the thorn
 
Actually a dog handler in the anthony case said her dog reacted to things like hair and nails that had come from living people.
The cadaver dog never alerted in the car he alerted by the car (eventually after being called back several times) and then to the card fob which was in the car and which contained material from gerry mccann. The dog alerted in the flat but someone had previously bled there profusely and according to his handler the dog would alert to dried blood from a living person.

The 15 of the 19 markers do not even have had to come from one person they could have come from up to five people, and as the car was used by her parents, grandparents, siblings, other relatives etc it would not even have been suspicious to find 100% of her markers as one hundred percent of her markers are present in her parents dna, and (all four) grandparents dna, as well as much of it being present in the dna of her siblings and other relatives.

Eddie was also not a cadaver dog, this is a red top fantasy, he was a victim recovery dog and according to grimes he would alert to bodily fluids that had originally come from a living person. He alerted to the material on the card fob yet gerry mccann has not been declared dead on eddies alerts. Whilst bodily fluids were found in some of the places he alerted, not one bit of forensic evidence backed up the idea that a body had been there.
Another interesting case is that of Thomas quick in sweden. He was accused or being a seriel killer after he confessed to murdering many different people. He gave the police locations of some of the bodies and victim recovery dogs alerted in each and every location but not one body or evidence there had even been a burial was found. However it turned out his confessions were unreliable (he was given very strong medication, fed material by the police and had strong alibis for some of the crimes) and so he had no idea where the bodies were and had just named random locations - so much for the dog alerts.
 
Eddie being described as a cadaver dog is a red top fantasy? LOL, I love how you make things up, I suggest you read this by Mark Harrison, national search advisor, Brit police

Victim recovery dogs (VRDs) are also known as body or cadaver dogs. They are used in many countries to assist the police in locating concealed human remains. In the UK, police dogs are used that are trained and licensed to a national standard.

Pig carcasses are used to train the dogs in the UK as it is not legal to use human cadavers. This is an established training method and enables the dogs to successfully detect human remains in operational case work.

Enhanced training to produce a EVRD.

The training of a VRD provides an alert response using Ivan Pavlov's theory of producing a conditioned reflex, in this case barking, to the presence of detected decomposing human/pig flesh, bone, body fluid and blood. The dog will bark, whether or not it is able to get to the source of the scent. The benefit of this reflex is that the dog will respond whenever the target scent is present.
This enables the dog to be used in an investigative role, assisting experts in other fields, such as, geophysics.

An EVRD dog received additional training on human cadavers which were buried on land and submerged underwater. This took place in America and facilitated by the FBI at the University of Tennessee.

The scent detection threshold of the dog is greatly enhanced. In operational deployment and in training, the dog is successful in detecting human remains, body fluids and blood, to cellular levels that can be recovered by low copy
analysis at forensic laboratories.

The proven capability of the EVRD is to :

Search to locate very small samples of human remains, body fluids and blood in any environment or terrain.

Identify sub-surface depositions to a depth of approximately one metre below the surface of the ground, depending on the scent permeability of the ground.
This depth is increased substantially when the ground is 'vented' prior to deployment.
Page 2232

Locate and give an alert to cross contamination by a cadaver. This is particularly valuable when the dog is used to assist in searches where the discovery of a body has prompted the investigation. The dog may locate secondary deposition sites and any areas of contamination, e.g., items of vehicles used to transport the body.

The generation, storage and migration of natural gases and body scent.

Gases from decomposing human remains may be dissolved in groundwater depending on the pressure, temperature or concentration of other gases or minerals in water. Dissolved gases may be advected by groundwater, and only when the pressure is reduced and the solubility limit of the gas in groundwater exceeded, do they come out of solution and form a separate gaseous phase.

'Scent', (cocktail mixtures of gases), from organic decaying remains can move through bedrock by diffusion, which is relatively slow, but if the bedrock is fractured, (eg, by bedding planes, joints and faults), the diffusion rate is increased. Gas and scent from organic decaying remains also migrate through rocks via intergranular permeability or, more particularly, along discontinuities. The hydrostatic head imposed by groundwater flows may also influence gas/organic scent emissions.

Determination of the migration pathway of gas/body scent depends on the geological, geomorphological and hydrogeological conditions and an understanding of the victim deposition site. Factors such as the surface and
groundwater flow paths, drainage, topography, runoff, precipitation rates, permeability of the soil and bedrock and hydrogeological domains, location of seeps and springs need to be determined if gases/human remains migration
pathways are to be determined.

The age of the source does not affect the process of scent movement but it will effect the concentration, as will the rate of decomposition. Body scent may be transported by 'leachate plumes' to emerge at the ground surface.
 
Actually a dog handler in the anthony case said her dog reacted to things like hair and nails that had come from living people.

----

Even if true, and I doubt very very much that cadaver dogs alert to hair unless it has come from a corpse, otherwise they would be barking left right left and centre, you have to come up with a reason why no flats villas cars in PDL had hair except for the mccanns areas if you want to put that up as a possibility
 
this is a quote from mark harrison which you yourself quoted above.

The proven capability of the EVRD is to :

Search to locate very small samples of human remains, body fluids and blood in any environment or terrain.

so one cannot dispute that the evrd alerts to bodily fluids and blood. Decomposition happens once a material is no longer alive, regardless of whether or not the donor is alive. For instance if an arm is amputated the arm will decompose in the same manner regardless of whether the donor lives or dies
The hair and nails thing seems to be different for each dog, I know the handler in the anthony case admited in court her dog was so accurate he would alert to hair and nails and eddie alerts to bodily fluids.
As to why the dog did not alert in other places that is something that would be questioned in court, as it seems odd that a body, bodily fluids or blood has never been in contact with any place in PDL (second hand furniture, transferance etc)
 
yes, court is the BEST place for this case, agree :)

And body fluids in that quote refers to fluids from CADAVERS, seeing as its a CADAVER dog and mr harrison confirms as opposed to your assertion that eddie was NOT a CADAVER dog

The ONLY exception is dried blood from a living human, mr grime NEVER said eddie a,erts to fluids from live people, if it were true, cadaver dogs would be useless, its that simple
 
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