Why didn't Cindy file for custody of Caylee? Could Cindy have saved her?

[MD MOMMY]

Cindy was worried about appearances. What would the neighbors, friends and family think? To adopt Caylee would mean that Casey failed, and that would be a reflection on Cindy.

You hit the nail on the head IMO.

KC would never have given Caylee to her mom either. It was a classic case of "if I can't have her nobody can." KC would never of given CA, Caylee..why so she could "ruin" her too? This is my opinion of what KC feels.

 

[Just Jayla]

My initial response to this thread when it opened was that CA probably had no real grounds to do so-Being mad at a child's irresponsibility is not enough to strip them of parental rights, so CA simply could not have gained custody-I even thought CA was maybe coveting Caylee too much in the sense that she thought she could just take her from KC at any time....
Since that time I have changed my opinion-I think the A's have known for a long time that KC was unstable, much more unstable than they let on-And this thing with KC being the mom never stood a chance.
As someone whose circumstance at 19 closely mirrored KC's, I know there are some stumbles along the road to independence from one's parents (getting a good job, finding a place to live in a decent neighborhood, feeding your child), especially with baby in tow-However, KC was not making progress towards complete independence at all. Yes, CA, there was definately something wrong.
The charade was about to be over.

 

[Curious Me]

Casey wanted to put her baby up for adoption. It should have been her choice. CA encouraged her to have Caylee. Why? Maybe it gave CA further power and control over Casey. (and CA seems to like playing the martyr role with a twist)

JMO, but I don't think Cindy wanted to get legal custody. She had deluded herself into believing she could just keep harping on Casey. I think CA just wanted to force Casey to tow the line. She had mistakenly thought having a baby would force Casey to grow-up. Sadly, CA used Caylee from her birth on in her struggles with Casey. There's got to be some guilt eating away at CA now if she realizes her role.

 

[LinasK]

PS Sal,I can totally relate.I'm 51 and still have 2 little ones at home.Oldest mom at the elementary school!

Just had to tell you, my daughter'll still be in elementary school when I turn 51!

 

[Curious Me]

Now, I'm not so sure of what I said above - I thought Casey wanted to put the baby up for adoption, but there's a thread discussing that.

Did Cindy force Casey to have Caylee? [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78203"]Did Cindy force KC to have Caylee? - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

Regardless, it doesn't change the fact that CA used Caylee in her struggles with Casey. Yet, I don't think CA wanted the fight for custody -she hoped to control Casey with increased threats and calls to come home in the middle of the night.

If CA was serious about gaining legal custody of Caylee, I would think she'd at least try to meet the nanny or look into getting Caylee into a fun pre-school to socialize with other children. She didn't seem ready to take on full parental and legal custody, and was sometimes very willing to delude herself that things were okay.

 

[Miss_Scarlett]

Just had to tell you, my daughter'll still be in elementary school when I turn 51!

If I did the math right (I am still sleepy) I will turn 50 when our son is in 5th grade. What can you do?

 

[Miss_Scarlett]

sleutherontheside, What a mess! I'm sorry your family has to go throug hall of that.

 

[Curious Me]

My initial response to this thread when it opened was that CA probably had no real grounds to do so-Being mad at a child's irresponsibility is not enough to strip them of parental rights, so CA simply could not have gained custody-I even thought CA was maybe coveting Caylee too much in the sense that she thought she could just take her from KC at any time....
Since that time I have changed my opinion-I think the A's have known for a long time that KC was unstable, much more unstable than they let on-And this thing with KC being the mom never stood a chance.
As someone whose circumstance at 19 closely mirrored KC's, I know there are some stumbles along the road to independence from one's parents (getting a good job, finding a place to live in a decent neighborhood, feeding your child), especially with baby in tow-However, KC was not making progress towards complete independence at all. Yes, CA, there was definately something wrong.
The charade was about to be over.

I don't understand how this situation had to come to murder of a child. Was Casey so spiteful that she wouldn't give her folks custody so she could be free of the responsibilities that were cramping her style? Did Cindy ever sit her down and offer that solution? Cindy knew things were getting out of control, but still was deluding herself that she could make Casey tow the line. It became this ongoing battle instead of any logical solutions for the safety and well-being of the child. You would think, if offered a reasonable out, Casey would want to just be free of her parental responsibilities. It seems Cindy was taking the wrong approach with Casey. Sorry, I'm just sad this couldn't have been worked out better. Why, why, why did Caylee have to end up dead!

 

[Carolina Girl]

I am not sure Cindy believed that she would get Caylee. She and George had their own problems as well. Maybe she never tried because she was afraid they would ALL lose her and the state would take her? Then they would not have her at all.

 

[Just Jayla]

I don't understand how this situation had to come to murder of a child. Was Casey so spiteful that she wouldn't give her folks custody so she could be free of the responsibilities that were cramping her style? Did Cindy ever sit her down and offer that solution? Cindy knew things were getting out of control, but still was deluding herself that she could make Casey tow the line. It became this ongoing battle instead of any logical solutions for the safety and well-being of the child. You would think, if offered a reasonable out, Casey would want to just be free of her parental responsibilities. It seems Cindy was taking the wrong approach with Casey. Sorry, I'm just sad this couldn't have been worked out better. Why, why, why did Caylee have to end up dead!

KC was spiting CA, because KC perceived that CA was going to inflict a blow to her pride-How would it look to KC's friends if CA took Caylee?

You're right that CA seems to have taken the wrong approach-Maybe CA thought KC would find her maternal instincts in time, because KC was young when she had her, but that clearly was not happening. And the communication was abysmal.

What the rest of us heard, when CA said she was going for custody, was "Casey, let me take care of this beautiful child because I love you both"....In KC's mind, she heard "Casey, you are not capable of being a mother" Ouch....

That's what lead KC to murder, IMO.

 

[Curious Me]

Just Jayla, thanks, you reminded me of Casey's pride that wouldn't allow her to ever give her folks custody of Caylee. Her big consideration would be what'd it'd look like to her friends.

I think you see what I'm saying tho'. Often, a mother knows how far to "urge" their child to go in certain directions. Same mother would recognize their child may have a reckless or violent streak if pushed too far or in the wrong way. So, I guess CA did not realize the extent Casey would go to if provoked. This is a senseless crime and it could have been avoided. The whole family could have used psych help and family therpy years ago.

 

[Spangle]

I've not changed my opinion on this. She didn't have grounds, that she knew of. Most likely didn't really want to raise the child. Just complain.

I"m sure that CA's counselor did tell her to try and 'get' Caylee. Just so CA would admit that she couldn't and didn't really want her. It's more fun to complain about how someone else isn't living up to par.

I"m about to see some of this play over again. I know of a teenager that is prego. Wanted to put the baby up for adoption. the new Mother is not now, and may never be able to ready to raise a child. Her MOther wants her to keep the child. And has talked her into keeping the child. This same Mother can't seem to hold down a job, neither can her boy friend.

Yet, this soon to be G-mother.. wants the girl to keep the child.

At this point, the Woman had her older children watch the younger ones. I can see it now... the New Mommy, the one who admited she could NOT raise this child.. we be reminded that it's HER child that she needs to baby sit, etc..

Grandma will get a new baby to .. ah.. raise. Gets to keep the daughter in the house.. (mentally not the age she is physically).. which equals $$$$. This daughter will not be able to leave with that child for a long time.

That is the way I see the Anthony situation. CA didn't want KC to give up the baby. Said they would help. KC took them at their word...Then the demands started, and she couldn't do anything right. Caylee then becomes a tool to control KC by CA. IF CA approves, then KC can do it. If CA doesn't approve, then KC can not.

 

[abel]

My initial response to this thread when it opened was that CA probably had no real grounds to do so-Being mad at a child's irresponsibility is not enough to strip them of parental rights, so CA simply could not have gained custody-I even thought CA was maybe coveting Caylee too much in the sense that she thought she could just take her from KC at any time....
Since that time I have changed my opinion-I think the A's have known for a long time that KC was unstable, much more unstable than they let on-And this thing with KC being the mom never stood a chance.
As someone whose circumstance at 19 closely mirrored KC's, I know there are some stumbles along the road to independence from one's parents (getting a good job, finding a place to live in a decent neighborhood, feeding your child), especially with baby in tow-However, KC was not making progress towards complete independence at all. Yes, CA, there was definately something wrong.
The charade was about to be over.

Too bad she didn't at least try to legally do it. Then there would be a paper trail and we could've watched her squirm as she tried to explain why she was seeking legal custody of the "mother of the year's" daughter.

 

[Frigga]

I do not see it this way, at ALL! KC wouldn't give Caylee up because Caylee was her meal ticket! If CA had asked KC to give her custody, and for the sake of argument, KC did then what would she be doing? She had NO job, NO money, nowhere but the A's home to live... nothing, nada, niet, zilch! I'm not even sure CA would have allowed her to take the car with her. Her cell phone would have been cut off in short order and she would not have had a laptop to surf the net, and Facebook or Myspace. No way, Caylee was the money train for KC... plain and simple in MHO!

 

[ZsaZsa]

I've not changed my opinion on this. She didn't have grounds, that she knew of. Most likely didn't really want to raise the child. Just complain.

I"m sure that CA's counselor did tell her to try and 'get' Caylee. Just so CA would admit that she couldn't and didn't really want her. It's more fun to complain about how someone else isn't living up to par.

I"m about to see some of this play over again. I know of a teenager that is prego. Wanted to put the baby up for adoption. the new Mother is not now, and may never be able to ready to raise a child. Her MOther wants her to keep the child. And has talked her into keeping the child. This same Mother can't seem to hold down a job, neither can her boy friend.

Yet, this soon to be G-mother.. wants the girl to keep the child.

At this point, the Woman had her older children watch the younger ones. I can see it now... the New Mommy, the one who admited she could NOT raise this child.. we be reminded that it's HER child that she needs to baby sit, etc..

Grandma will get a new baby to .. ah.. raise. Gets to keep the daughter in the house.. (mentally not the age she is physically).. which equals $$$$. This daughter will not be able to leave with that child for a long time.

That is the way I see the Anthony situation. CA didn't want KC to give up the baby. Said they would help. KC took them at their word...Then the demands started, and she couldn't do anything right. Caylee then becomes a tool to control KC by CA. IF CA approves, then KC can do it. If CA doesn't approve, then KC can not.

Yes, why change the Status Quo when you are St Cindy, Patron saint of Martyrs.

 

[Curious Me]

I do not see it this way, at ALL! KC wouldn't give Caylee up because Caylee was her meal ticket! If CA had asked KC to give her custody, and for the sake of argument, KC did then what would she be doing? She had NO job, NO money, nowhere but the A's home to live... nothing, nada, niet, zilch! I'm not even sure CA would have allowed her to take the car with her. Her cell phone would have been cut off in short order and she would not have had a laptop to surf the net, and Facebook or Myspace. No way, Caylee was the money train for KC... plain and simple in MHO!

That crossed my mind too. Maybe for awhile Casey really believed somehow she might get the house as told to Amy. Caylee was being used as a tool by both CA and Casey. Casey was getting away with outrageous behavior but was somewhat protected by the shield of Caylee. And Caylee was helping Casey free load from her folks. Oh, so sad for Caylee.

I wonder if RM wouldn't have let Casey move in with Caylee, but it was still more financially rewarding at her folks. Once TonE came along she didn't think she'd need Caylee anymore, and this is where her spitefulness and pride decided not to just leave Caylee with her folks. For how tough Casey acts, she's a worm.

 

[SuperChick]

Perhaps 1 of the factors was the fact that Caylee would cry/scream for KC when she was gone for long periods.

Several witnesses stated Caylee had seperation anxiety and always wanted to be with KC. The only person who stated that Caylee would cry for CA was KC. Ricardo never heard Caylee ask for CA once in all that time she spent there.

IMHO, poor Caylee wanted her Mommy to love her, not her Grandma, and sadly KC was too narcissistic to be capable of it.

 

[Just Jayla]

I've not changed my opinion on this. She didn't have grounds, that she knew of. Most likely didn't really want to raise the child. Just complain.

I"m sure that CA's counselor did tell her to try and 'get' Caylee. Just so CA would admit that she couldn't and didn't really want her. It's more fun to complain about how someone else isn't living up to par.

I"m about to see some of this play over again. I know of a teenager that is prego. Wanted to put the baby up for adoption. the new Mother is not now, and may never be able to ready to raise a child. Her MOther wants her to keep the child. And has talked her into keeping the child. This same Mother can't seem to hold down a job, neither can her boy friend.

Yet, this soon to be G-mother.. wants the girl to keep the child.

At this point, the Woman had her older children watch the younger ones. I can see it now... the New Mommy, the one who admited she could NOT raise this child.. we be reminded that it's HER child that she needs to baby sit, etc..

Grandma will get a new baby to .. ah.. raise. Gets to keep the daughter in the house.. (mentally not the age she is physically).. which equals $$$$. This daughter will not be able to leave with that child for a long time.

That is the way I see the Anthony situation. CA didn't want KC to give up the baby. Said they would help. KC took them at their word...Then the demands started, and she couldn't do anything right. Caylee then becomes a tool to control KC by CA. IF CA approves, then KC can do it. If CA doesn't approve, then KC can not.

BBM-I'm with you on this under normal circumstances, there is just not enough on the face for CA to take Caylee-but my pivot point is that I think KC may have had some issues early on that indicated not only her sociopathy and temper, but her inability to function in society, for instance keeping a job-

Financial issues are a potential ground for grandparents to seek custody-All
CA had to do was kick KC out of her house and cut her off, and KC would no longer have the means to care for Caylee, and likely never will.
This is not to say that CA might not have to go through a protracted legal process-She may have to start as low-level as getting visitation of Caylee, but she could possibly work her way up to conservatorship or custody beyond that.
Now, if KC proved her wrong and got her act together and cared for Caylee, one would hope CA would be happy for that and drop it-She'd have to. But as long as CA enabled KC, that would not happen-Seeking custody was a hardline way to cut off the money and settle things once and for all. Final punishment.
As was posted here earlier, boy this could have been handled differently. And earlier on. I am still of the belief that KC would have thrown Caylee in a trash can when she was born had no one noticed she was pregnant.

 

[Vegas Bride]

Imo there were so many different issues playing here that there is not just 1 reason.
1 thing is money, it would cost CA money to fight for custody.
2 is control of both Casey and Caylee, what if she did spend the money and that pushed both of them out of the house? What if it propelled Casey into getting enough assistance she had a way of leaving her house and found out she didn't have to be living under her mothers roof?
3 is having Casey there helped her avoid/ignore the problems going on within her marriage, plus it appears to me she involved Casey way to much in running GA down. If she managed to chase Casey away, then who would she have to be confiding in?
4 is appearances, especially to her own family, she couldn't even admit to them Casey was pregnant, how could she admit to them she wasn't capable of being a mother?
5 is the possibility Casey knew things that could show CA was not fit to have custody of Caylee.
6 is the worry deep down that if push came to shove, there's another family out there that also could fight for custody if it becomes known they have a grandchild.

No, it was easier for CA to just let things continue the way they were. It seems Casey never looked to far into the future and really I don't think Cindy did either. They were both getting enough of what they needed from each other... that is, until the s^&$ hit the fan.

VB

 

[Spangle]

BBM-I'm with you on this under normal circumstances, there is just not enough on the face for CA to take Caylee-but my pivot point is that I think KC may have had some issues early on that indicated not only her sociopathy and temper, but her inability to function in society, for instance keeping a job-

Financial issues are a potential ground for grandparents to seek custody-All
CA had to do was kick KC out of her house and cut her off, and KC would no longer have the means to care for Caylee, and likely never will.
This is not to say that CA might not have to go through a protracted legal process-She may have to start as low-level as getting visitation of Caylee, but she could possibly work her way up to conservatorship or custody beyond that.
Now, if KC proved her wrong and got her act together and cared for Caylee, one would hope CA would be happy for that and drop it-She'd have to. But as long as CA enabled KC, that would not happen-Seeking custody was a hardline way to cut off the money and settle things once and for all. Final punishment.
As was posted here earlier, boy this could have been handled differently. And earlier on. I am still of the belief that KC would have thrown Caylee in a trash can when she was born had no one noticed she was pregnant.

If CA had kicked her out, then she would have been eligible for social help. KC might not even have been aware of how much help she could have gotten. Even staying in her parents home, she might have been eligible.

Your right. It would have been long and drawn out. The Courts and DCF would have given KC every chance they could, to keep that baby. So long as the child wasn't abused or endangered.

If CA harrassed DCF over little stuff, she could get arrested for filing false claims, etc. If the baby was taken away, DCF might consider CA unstable because of the harrassment, etc.

Being able to provide the most, doesn't automaticly mean a person would be granted custody. Courts know that $$ isn't everything. And they know some folks have control issues.