Why doesn't CPS take away the minor children?

[norest4thewicked]

And what's next? CPS taking kids away if a Mom took Nyquil before going to bed because she had a bad cold? Or what about a Mom who's just a really really deep sleeper? Should CPS march into that home and yank the kids away?

I do agree that animosity toward DB and/or belief in her guilt in Lisa's disappearance can influence how people view the CPS question. If you take her out of it, or even look at it without considering this specific situation, how many people would really want CPS to take away their neighbor's or relative's kids because the mom had had several glasses of wine?

This is all hypothetical...DB herself admitted to be so drunk that she could have blacked out. That's a totally different story to me.

 

[annalia]

And what's next? CPS taking kids away if a Mom took Nyquil before going to bed because she had a bad cold? Or what about a Mom who's just a really really deep sleeper? Should CPS march into that home and yank the kids away?

I do agree that animosity toward DB and/or belief in her guilt in Lisa's disappearance can influence how people view the CPS question. If you take her out of it, or even look at it without considering this specific situation, how many people would really want CPS to take away their neighbor's or relative's kids because the mom had had several glasses of wine?

But who blacks out after just several glasses of wine? I'm not a drinker but even I wouldn't black out if it was just several glasses of wine.

That being said, I don't know much about exactly how CPS operates, but I can understand the children not being taken from the home, not yet anyway. LE is still building their case, it doesn't appear that the boys are in immediate danger living with family members.

 

[Jacie Estes]

Respectfully...if you are going to quote me, please at least quote me for what I am actually saying. I didn't that just media alone is child abuse. But put it all together with what she has done and hasn't done and now has media in her home...yes...it's abuse to me.

IF she were abusive wouldn't the children have been removed already? IMHO Foster care would not be the best place for the boys right now and the mother isn't even a POI/Suspect..


Some people see a candlestick and others see 2 faces.

 

[not_my_kids]

From my limited experience:

There has to be proof or a strong belief that a child is in danger of physical harm or death in order to remove children. Here, there is neither. If charges start coming around the bend against the parents, or the boys are ever given the opportunity to disclose some type of abuse or severe neglect, that could change. But, as of right now, there is no proof that either child's life is in danger while in their parents custody.

When there are certain things in place within a family, CPS is less likely to remove children. They are a two parent home. They have strong community and family supports in place in the local area. They are able to maintain housing, send their kids to school, take them to the doctor on time, keep them fed, bathed, and presumably, safe from future harm. These all work in their favor.

They likely have had no prior contact with CPS, which also works in their favor.

Even if DB admitted to being drunk, CPS has to prove that she was, and alcohol only stays in the system a very short time, so in order to prove it through a urine test, which is what they use almost exclusively, they would have to get her to take the test while she was still drunk, or very recently sobered up.

Those are just my thoughts, and I've seen enough of their operations to have a decent understanding of how it works. I was in and out of foster care my entire childhood, and I asked a lot of questions.

 

[Jacie Estes]

I definitely think this mother will never win a mother of the year award. From what I have read, she doesn't really seem like she is motherhood material. I think she shouldn't have been drinking with children in the house, or smoking pot, or doing drugs, or any of those things that go along with it.
However, I do think the reason CPS hasn't done more, is that at this point in time, the children have been in a safer environment. We really don't know what they have waiting in the wings, if anything.

I do believe we all see this situation as parents or caregivers, who are actually responsible people. We see the whole picture as to how WE would handle things. In the world of CPS, things don't always happen like we think it should, which is why, a lot of times, children are left in the home and they end up dying, or they are taken away, put in foster care and are abused there and sometimes die. Sometimes it's a damned if you do, damned if you don't kind of thing.

BBM Do you have a link for that?

 

[melissasmom]

And what's next? CPS taking kids away if a Mom took Nyquil before going to bed because she had a bad cold? Or what about a Mom who's just a really really deep sleeper? Should CPS march into that home and yank the kids away?

I do agree that animosity toward DB and/or belief in her guilt in Lisa's disappearance can influence how people view the CPS question. If you take her out of it, or even look at it without considering this specific situation, how many people would really want CPS to take away their neighbor's or relative's kids because the mom had had several glasses of wine?

I apologize for making assumptions (just jumping off this post), I am just SO frustrated. One thing I hate most is when people are so judgemental and , as I see it, holier-than-thou)

I have lost a child. When the police investigated my daughters' death, they would have called CPS immediately and had my other children removed from my care based on what I have seen posted about assumptions on Deborahs parenting. And no, I was not drunk on the night of her death nor did I drink on a regular basis. Actually she didn't die at home anyways, but you get what Im saying(I hope)

Sorry, I have just learned in the years since my childs death to be a little more compassionate and not so judgemental of others. That's just how I feel.

ALso sorry if this is O/T for this thread.

 

[norest4thewicked]

IF she were abusive wouldn't the children have been removed already? IMHO Foster care would not be the best place for the boys right now and the mother isn't even a POI/Suspect..


Some people see a candlestick and others see 2 faces.

To me...abuse = neglect. And DB was beyond a doubt, by her own admission, horribly neglectful.

 

[highflyer]

If she was drunk to the point of blacking out and left sick baby unattended and school age boys to fend for themselves then IMHO she is a negligent parent. If this was a story concocted, frequently changed and stammered about it would explain the deceptiveness and awkwardness of the interviews. In this case who came up with scenario? What a train wreck.

 

[Jacie Estes]

I apologize for making assumptions (just jumping off this post), I am just SO frustrated. One thing I hate most is when people are so judgemental and , as I see it, holier-than-thou)

I have lost a child. When the police investigated my daughters' death, they would have called CPS immediately and had my other children removed from my care based on what I have seen posted about assumptions on Deborahs parenting. And no, I was not drunk on the night of her death nor did I drink on a regular basis. Actually she didn't die at home anyways, but you get what Im saying(I hope)

Sorry, I have just learned in the years since my childs death to be a little more compassionate and not so judgemental of others. That's just how I feel.

ALso sorry if this is O/T for this thread.

Compassion is always needed.


I am so sorry for your loss.:rose:

 

[IrishMist]

From my limited experience:

There has to be proof or a strong belief that a child is in danger of physical harm or death in order to remove children. Here, there is neither. If charges start coming around the bend against the parents, or the boys are ever given the opportunity to disclose some type of abuse or severe neglect, that could change. But, as of right now, there is no proof that either child's life is in danger while in their parents custody.

When there are certain things in place within a family, CPS is less likely to remove children. They are a two parent home. They have strong community and family supports in place in the local area. They are able to maintain housing, send their kids to school, take them to the doctor on time, keep them fed, bathed, and presumably, safe from future harm. These all work in their favor.

They likely have had no prior contact with CPS, which also works in their favor.

Even if DB admitted to being drunk, CPS has to prove that she was, and alcohol only stays in the system a very short time, so in order to prove it through a urine test, which is what they use almost exclusively, they would have to get her to take the test while she was still drunk, or very recently sobered up.

Those are just my thoughts, and I've seen enough of their operations to have a decent understanding of how it works. I was in and out of foster care my entire childhood, and I asked a lot of questions.

IMO, it is right that CPS is cautious about removing children from their parents. Regardless of what some may think, there are no perfect parents, every single one makes mistakes; some of those mistakes could have serious repercussions, but by the grace of God, didn't.

I'm not sure how the foster system worked for you, Not_My, but for the vast majority of people I've talked with, it didn't work out so well. Taking children away from their family is huge; it's not to be taken lightly by any means. And those that are advocating for it should be well aware of the situation they may be putting those children in before screaming too loudly for that action.

:twocents:

 

[captivagrl]

From my limited experience:

There has to be proof or a strong belief that a child is in danger of physical harm or death in order to remove children. Here, there is neither. If charges start coming around the bend against the parents, or the boys are ever given the opportunity to disclose some type of abuse or severe neglect, that could change. But, as of right now, there is no proof that either child's life is in danger while in their parents custody.

When there are certain things in place within a family, CPS is less likely to remove children. They are a two parent home. They have strong community and family supports in place in the local area. They are able to maintain housing, send their kids to school, take them to the doctor on time, keep them fed, bathed, and presumably, safe from future harm. These all work in their favor.

They likely have had no prior contact with CPS, which also works in their favor.

Even if DB admitted to being drunk, CPS has to prove that she was, and alcohol only stays in the system a very short time, so in order to prove it through a urine test, which is what they use almost exclusively, they would have to get her to take the test while she was still drunk, or very recently sobered up.

Those are just my thoughts, and I've seen enough of their operations to have a decent understanding of how it works. I was in and out of foster care my entire childhood, and I asked a lot of questions.

I agree. I'd like to add that many cases do not include removing the children. Sometimes child services offer a case plan for the parent to complete while the children stay in the home. For instance, alcohol evaluations and therapy. Once complete the case closes. But, while it's ongoing the children are visited and interviewed regularly

 

[Jacie Estes]

To me...abuse = neglect. And DB was beyond a doubt, by her own admission, horribly neglectful.

It would appear that MO CPS doesn't share that sentiment; the boys are still with them, where they should be. IMHO

 

[mck16]

:welcome::fireworks:

I am not sure I agree with you. In my opinion, if she had been sober, she would have closed the window and locked the front door. Maybe just by doing those two normal things that most parents do before going to bed at night, the baby would still be safe at home.

Also, she never checked on the baby after 06:40 pm. And the baby was sick. Most sober moms would check in on a sick infant a couple of times at least.

And she never heard any dogs barking, or any noise on the baby monitor. again, a sober parent might have heard those things, imo.

What about the boys. We have heard nothing about them hearing or seeing anyone. Were they drunk too? I hardly think so. I read that they heard clicking but did they try to wake their mother or did they get up and go see what the noise was. And one of the boys was in the bed with her.

Also what about the girl that was drinking with DB should her children be taken away also? jmo

 

[LadyPirate]

Originally Posted by LadyPirate
I definitely think this mother will never win a mother of the year award. From what I have read, she doesn't really seem like she is motherhood material. I think she shouldn't have been drinking with children in the house, or smoking pot, or doing drugs, or any of those things that go along with it.
However, I do think the reason CPS hasn't done more, is that at this point in time, the children have been in a safer environment. We really don't know what they have waiting in the wings, if anything.

I do believe we all see this situation as parents or caregivers, who are actually responsible people. We see the whole picture as to how WE would handle things. In the world of CPS, things don't always happen like we think it should, which is why, a lot of times, children are left in the home and they end up dying, or they are taken away, put in foster care and are abused there and sometimes die. Sometimes it's a damned if you do, damned if you don't kind of thing.

BBM Do you have a link for that?

I'm sorry, I meant that as an either or thing. Meaning she shouldn't have been drinking, or doing drugs, or smoking pot. Not that she WAS doing all those. Just that NONE of those should be done by anybody in charge of children. Sorry for not making it more clear.

 

[norest4thewicked]

It would appear that MO CPS doesn't share that sentiment; the boys are still with them, where they should be. IMHO

Yes, you are right that MO CPS doesn't share mine and many other people's sentiment. It's unfortunate that so many CPS agencies are just lazy and take the easy way out in many cases. I am NOT saying that happened here, but we hear every day where they are negligent...and the little children are the one who pays the price.

 

[norest4thewicked]

What about the boys. We have heard nothing about them hearing or seeing anyone. Were they drunk too? I hardly think so. I read that they heard clicking but did they try to wake their mother or did they get up and go see what the noise was. And one of the boys was in the bed with her.

Also what about the girl that was drinking with DB should her children be taken away also? jmo

The woman drinking with DB didn't black out. She took her daughter home. None of her children were "kidnapped" in the night either.

 

[norest4thewicked]

I apologize for making assumptions (just jumping off this post), I am just SO frustrated. One thing I hate most is when people are so judgemental and , as I see it, holier-than-thou)

I have lost a child. When the police investigated my daughters' death, they would have called CPS immediately and had my other children removed from my care based on what I have seen posted about assumptions on Deborahs parenting. And no, I was not drunk on the night of her death nor did I drink on a regular basis. Actually she didn't die at home anyways, but you get what Im saying(I hope)

Sorry, I have just learned in the years since my childs death to be a little more compassionate and not so judgemental of others. That's just how I feel.

ALso sorry if this is O/T for this thread.

I'm so sorry for your loss. I can't even imagine the pain that one must go through.

 

[NancyA]

The woman drinking with DB didn't black out. She took her daughter home. None of her children were "kidnapped" in the night either.

How do you know that? It's quite possible she went home and blacked out but we'd never know unless SHE admitted to it just as DB did.

 

[norest4thewicked]

How do you know that? It's quite possible she went home and blacked out but we'd never know unless SHE admitted to it just as DB did.

Honestly...this is all O/T. However, I will say that if she did black out, she's lucky because her child is still with her.

 

[nursebeeme]

This thread will ONLY work as long as we don't get into bashing one another for our beliefs, avoid name-calling and assumptions (about case players, and about one another), and focus the conversation on understanding how CPS works in MO and how that interfaces with this case.

I think we can do that. Please help prove me right.

Where this post lands is random.

bumping up randomly and it lands at random.. but this is serious business here...