Why Patsy

[madeleine]

Totally agree!

IMO If the garrote was actually a real instrument of a seasoned wackadoo with an erotic asphyxiation fetish....it would have been brought along.,,,and if it was used by someone else in the home as part of a recurring bizarre sex game ....it would have been made better and not improvised like this one was. the wrist ties would have been tight. IMO It was placed there as an after the fact to hide what really happened, and I agree....she probably was strangled with something else first .....like a shirt for example...maybe even a turtleneck twisted tightly at the front of the neck.

@bold.Good point.
Do any of you know anything about exorcism/rituals,etc?Maybe Wecht and others who think it was a SEX game gone wrong are .....wrong.... and it was something else.Maybe it wasn't a game,maybe it was a ritual.
Btw,were the friends who participated in Patsy's healing ritual the same that were called there that morning (26)?
I never recall.
I still feel that it wasn't a coincidence that she was killed around Christmas and I am still fascinated ,(dunno if it's the right term to describe my feelings,thoughts....intrigued?) by the R's religious side.

 

[cosmo44]

Are you aware that BR could not have been prosecuted for this crime, no matter what the reason for it? It's Colorado law that you cannot prosecute anyone under the age of 14. Had the parents known that (and IF he is responsible in some way), there may have been a different outcome on this case.

i was not aware of that ...

 

[UKGuy]

I know what you're saying.I guess my point is IF Patsy wrote the note that doesn't mean she killed JB like the DNA isn't necessarily the killer's,so I just wanna know why most people think PDI,why not JDI or BDI,JARDI,only because she wrote the note or had her part in the cover -up(fibers)?It's not enough IMO.
Why are people so sure that it was HER who KILLED JB,what's the evidence that points 100% at her being the KILLER,I guess this is what I wanna know.

madeleine,

I agree with you. Many people think PDI because a lot of the evidence does inplicate Patsy, including a moral aspect e.g. promoting JonBenet as pageant model.

She was present when JonBenet consumed the pineapple, yet she denied this, she claimed never to have entered the wine-cellar the night/morning of JonBenet's death yet fibers from her jacket worn to the White's party were found in the wine-cellar. She made so many claims which later turned out to be inconsistent with the forensic evidence, never mind her role as a mother that many have decided she is the guilty person.

IMO PDI is the strongest of all the various theories, followed by JDI then BDI etc.

I have my own version of the PDI which is not unique but attempts to make sense of all the inconsistencies in the case.

The reason for the confusion is that most of the who did it theories are based largely on the staged components so they seem coherent but seasoned websleuthers who are aware of the minutae know otherwise. The staged parts can lead to certainty consider the ligature was it this that killed JonBenet or her head bash, both can lead to asphyxia e.g. oxygen depletion. Was the ligature the cord found around her neck or was some other device employed, which was then replaced by the cord to mimic a violent homicide in which JonBenet was tied up and sexually assaulted. Take your pick?

.

 

[Linda7NJ]

the scene was staged by the parents ... i don't know who wrote the letter ... one of the parents. there was a swiss army knife found near the body and it was the brother's. the head trauma matched that of a swiss army knife to the head (without the blade). there was something going on with bed-wetting etc and the boy lost it. i don't think the parents knew the brother was doing things to JBR on the downlow, but i think the boy lost it one night due to jealousy, etc.
or they were "playing" and it went "south" and the sister was going to expose or this was something that couldn't be "hidden", so then the parents had to cover.
i think the cloud of secrecy was to protect the family, which i think is totally understandable. if i were the parents in this situation and my son killed my daughter (his younger sister) i would do the same thing ... regardless if the son goes to jail / mental institution, he/they would be paying for this the rest of their lives. i think it is also ironic that Patsy died not super long after ...

That is not correct.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I know what you're saying.I guess my point is IF Patsy wrote the note that doesn't mean she killed JB like the DNA isn't necessarily the killer's,so I just wanna know why most people think PDI,why not JDI or BDI,JARDI,only because she wrote the note or had her part in the cover -up(fibers)?It's not enough IMO.
Why are people so sure that it was HER who KILLED JB,what's the evidence that points 100% at her being the KILLER,I guess this is what I wanna know.

Well, several reasons....I do think the RN was written by a woman. The way the "garrote" was fashioned and the way it was so ineffectually tied at her wrists. The way Jon Benet was left in her favorite blanket and night gown beside her. I seriously doubt John would even know those things. The duct tape was applied to her mouth after death...and contained Patsy fibers. Everything used from the pen and notepad, to the paint brush handle points to Patsy. Then there is the pineapple.

I have a hard time believing she would cover for John for any reason.

I doubt it was Burke because he would have to have been severely emotionally disturbed to murder his own sister and he has exhibited zero evidence of that after the murder. Normal children do not bash their little sister's head in.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Oh...I forgot to add the garrote was actually made on her neck. Jon Benet's hair is entangled in the knot. That proves to me she was already dead or darn close.

 

[DeeDee249]

I have a hard time thinking the Rs would not have tried to have some kind of psychiatric treatment for their son, if he was involved. Maybe they did- we wouldn't know. I don't rule out his involvement, but I don't think he would have acted alone.
For those who feel a boy of (nearly) 10 couldn't do this- I am reminded of a horrible murder that took place several years ago in England. Two young boys brutally murdered and mutilated and sexually assaulted the corpse of a TWO year old boy. Some of you may be familiar with that case. Some kids ARE capable of this kind of thing. Read "Lord of the Flies".
IMO there are only two reasons the parents would stage this crime- to cover for each other (each one of them having some involvement in her death or prior abuse) OR to cover for their son. THEIR son, not JR's son, because, while he is a viable perp as far as many are concerned, I can't see Patsy covering for him unless her own son was also involved somehow.

 

[madeleine]

I have a hard time believing she would cover for John for any reason.

I don't because I've seen how some wives are covering for their husbands outta blind love and forget about their kids and their pain.In my mind it's the other way around,I don't see John covering for her.He already lost one daughter in an accident.And if it happens once and you're angry with God(his own words) , you get over it and then it happens AGAIN,would you still have faith in that God of yours who "betrayed" you once again?
Why was ST basically his nr.1 defender,why did he never pursue the prior abuse avenue (if true).
To me everything that points to RDI(and that's not enough anyway and IDI is very possible IMO as well) has JR written all over it.But without a confession I guess we'll never know who's right,PDI's or JDI's or BDI's.

 

[cosmo44]

Are you aware that BR could not have been prosecuted for this crime, no matter what the reason for it? It's Colorado law that you cannot prosecute anyone under the age of 14. Had the parents known that (and IF he is responsible in some way), there may have been a different outcome on this case.

so then it would be all about public relations and "the spin" in order to shield the family. at least they were smart enough that this tragedy would destroy the family even MORE than it did if the real truth came out. at least the father and the son survived. i am sure with much therapy and mental scarring ... but alive.

 

[cosmo44]

Well, several reasons....I do think the RN was written by a woman. The way the "garrote" was fashioned and the way it was so ineffectually tied at her wrists. The way Jon Benet was left in her favorite blanket and night gown beside her. I seriously doubt John would even know those things. The duct tape was applied to her mouth after death...and contained Patsy fibers. Everything used from the pen and notepad, to the paint brush handle points to Patsy. Then there is the pineapple.

I have a hard time believing she would cover for John for any reason.

I doubt it was Burke because he would have to have been severely emotionally disturbed to murder his own sister and he has exhibited zero evidence of that after the murder. Normal children do not bash their little sister's head in.

these were anything but "normal" children and with medication after the fact the boy would be so medicated there would be no room for emotional disturbance. it was the brother and they covered for him. we would all do the exact same thing if this situation happened to us.

 

[Roy23]

these were anything but "normal" children and with medication after the fact the boy would be so medicated there would be no room for emotional disturbance. it was the brother and they covered for him. we would all do the exact same thing if this situation happened to us.

Please don't speak for me. Poppycock.

 

[cosmo44]

Please don't speak for me. Poppycock.

i don't even know your language.

 

[MurriFlower]

Well, several reasons....I do think the RN was written by a woman. The way the "garrote" was fashioned and the way it was so ineffectually tied at her wrists. The way Jon Benet was left in her favorite blanket and night gown beside her. I seriously doubt John would even know those things. The duct tape was applied to her mouth after death...and contained Patsy fibers. Everything used from the pen and notepad, to the paint brush handle points to Patsy. Then there is the pineapple.

I have a hard time believing she would cover for John for any reason.

I doubt it was Burke because he would have to have been severely emotionally disturbed to murder his own sister and he has exhibited zero evidence of that after the murder. Normal children do not bash their little sister's head in.

Hmm, so it wasn't BR because he wasn't disturbed (cleared by a psychiatrist presumably?), but you have no problem believing it was his mother, because she did exhibit some signs of mental disorder? Pray tell, when was this diagnosed and by whom?

 

[DeeDee249]

I'd consider both BR and JB normal kids. JB was involved in the pageant world to what some would consider an extreme degree, but that is not abnormal; it is merely something that most of her peers were not involved with. That doesn't make her abnormal. Not too much is known about BR's childhood. Nothing out of the ordinary as far as I know. He had friends.
We don't know whether BR was considered disturbed. A psychiatrist met with him right after JB's death. I recall the doctor had him draw pictures of his family, and he drew himself, and his parents. Not JB. The doctor said this was very unusual because most kids his age, while they are old enough to know what it means when someone dies (they are not coming back), most kids would draw the dead sibling. For obvious reasons of patient privacy, and because he was a minor, nothing further was mentioned about BR's mental state.
I don't know whether they sought treatment after he whacked JB with a golf club some years before, but that was supposedly an accident.
However, I do feel his behavior the morning of the 26th was not normal. He was finally "outed" as having been actually awake, not asleep, that morning during all the commotion when both he and JR admitted this.
He did not seem concerned in the least that he was being taken to the White's house (interesting that his parents sent him there, then implicated them in JB's death). He never asked where JB was or what happened to her or why he alone was going. I don't think his parents told him she had been kidnapped. Even more unusual, he wasn't upset at all.
You'd expect a kid that age to not want to be separated from his parents under what he had to realize was a stressful situation, and by that time, LE was already at the house.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Hmm, so it wasn't BR because he wasn't disturbed (cleared by a psychiatrist presumably?), but you have no problem believing it was his mother, because she did exhibit some signs of mental disorder? Pray tell, when was this diagnosed and by whom?

As I recall, Patsy was on medication for anxiety, was she not?

 

[MurriFlower]

As I recall, Patsy was on medication for anxiety, was she not?

This would have been after the murder of her daughter or before?

 

[Linda7NJ]

This would have been after the murder of her daughter or before?

Before

 

[UKGuy]

I'd consider both BR and JB normal kids. JB was involved in the pageant world to what some would consider an extreme degree, but that is not abnormal; it is merely something that most of her peers were not involved with. That doesn't make her abnormal. Not too much is known about BR's childhood. Nothing out of the ordinary as far as I know. He had friends.
We don't know whether BR was considered disturbed. A psychiatrist met with him right after JB's death. I recall the doctor had him draw pictures of his family, and he drew himself, and his parents. Not JB. The doctor said this was very unusual because most kids his age, while they are old enough to know what it means when someone dies (they are not coming back), most kids would draw the dead sibling. For obvious reasons of patient privacy, and because he was a minor, nothing further was mentioned about BR's mental state.
I don't know whether they sought treatment after he whacked JB with a golf club some years before, but that was supposedly an accident.
However, I do feel his behavior the morning of the 26th was not normal. He was finally "outed" as having been actually awake, not asleep, that morning during all the commotion when both he and JR admitted this.
He did not seem concerned in the least that he was being taken to the White's house (interesting that his parents sent him there, then implicated them in JB's death). He never asked where JB was or what happened to her or why he alone was going. I don't think his parents told him she had been kidnapped. Even more unusual, he wasn't upset at all.
You'd expect a kid that age to not want to be separated from his parents under what he had to realize was a stressful situation, and by that time, LE was already at the house.

DeeDee249,

JB was involved in the pageant world to what some would consider an extreme degree, but that is not abnormal; it is merely something that most of her peers were not involved with. That doesn't make her abnormal.

Patently not abnormal since by extension this would make all pageant models abnormal. But JonBenet was most definitely not little Miss Average, she was the daughter of a millionare, Pageant Awards were not required as attainment signposts, her private education fulfilled that function. So her pageant regime was distinct given her social class. So what purpose did it perform, was it simply a continuation of Patsy's interpretation of female attainment in a world constrained by deficiency of female role models, or is a more darker interpretation possible?


.

 

[DeeDee249]

DeeDee249,


Patently not abnormal since by extension this would make all pageant models abnormal. But JonBenet was most definitely not little Miss Average, she was the daughter of a millionare, Pageant Awards were not required as attainment signposts, her private education fulfilled that function. So her pageant regime was distinct given her social class. So what purpose did it perform, was it simply a continuation of Patsy's interpretation of female attainment in a world constrained by deficiency of female role models, or is a more darker interpretation possible?


.

Valid points but still not abnormal. Out of the ordinary would be a better way of putting it, perhaps.
Patsy was "nouveau riche". A breed apart from old money circles, within which the Rs may not have been welcomed. Money can't buy class, and Patsy's over- the- top way of doing things may have been considered crass by some. Her social class was decidedly middle-class, despite the money. Very wealthy young girls don't compete in these kiddie pageants as a rule. They may become debutantes, but they don't do the "Toddlers & Tiaras" route.
But some Miss Americas have gone on to become famous and well-known. Some have gone on to careers in the public eye. Some have married very wealthy men. But for the life of me, I can't recall the names of more than a handful. So much for eternal world-wide fame. And my grandfather used to work the lights at the Convention Hall in Atlantic City. I went to every pageant as a child because my parents would go down for the summer, and we'd stay in a guest cottage my grandparents rented all summer while my grandfather worked.
Yet Patsy (and Nedra) wanted that for JB very much, seeing as how Patsy herself, and her sister, missed that particular brass ring. Wonder if JB would have wanted it for herself, had she lived?

 

[BBB167893]

I don't because I've seen how some wives are covering for their husbands outta blind love and forget about their kids and their pain.

Yeah, unfortunately, it's more common than we might think.

In my mind it's the other way around,I don't see John covering for her.He already lost one daughter in an accident.And if it happens once and you're angry with God(his own words) , you get over it and then it happens AGAIN,would you still have faith in that God of yours who "betrayed" you once again?

I guess it depends on how you look at it. What's your take on this: Yes, he could have sent PR to prison. But what good would it do? He'd lost Beth, of course. He'd just lost JB, and sending PR to prison would mean she'd most likely die there, so he'd lose her. And BR would probably hate him for taking his mother away from him. Just spitballing.

To me everything that points to RDI(and that's not enough anyway and IDI is very possible IMO as well) has JR written all over it.But without a confession I guess we'll never know who's right,PDI's or JDI's or BDI's.

We may well have to live with that.