Why Patsy

[BBB167893]

Hmm, so it wasn't BR because he wasn't disturbed (cleared by a psychiatrist presumably?), but you have no problem believing it was his mother, because she did exhibit some signs of mental disorder? Pray tell, when was this diagnosed and by whom?

Didn't there used to be a place to discuss that?

 

[BBB167893]

As I recall, Patsy was on medication for anxiety, was she not?

That bears closer examination, in my view.

 

[MurriFlower]

Didn't there used to be a place to discuss that?

I was hoping she would say that it was prior to the murder, as that would be more indicative of an actual diagnosis by a professional. So do we have any evidence for this?

 

[DeeDee249]

I was hoping she would say that it was prior to the murder, as that would be more indicative of an actual diagnosis by a professional. So do we have any evidence for this?

I think there is an interview with JR where he discusses Patsy being treated with medications, Klonopin is one that was found in the medicine cabinet. JR said that she was on some anti-anxiety meds before the murder. Most cancer survivors are on these kinds of meds, it isn't really unusual for Patsy to have been given them. Sometimes they are given during chemo, and continue after the treatments are over. I don't know how close to the murder she was still taking them. The day of? Days before, weeks, months? The effects of these kinds of drugs can make people behave in ways they ordinarily wouldn't or they can exaggerate certain personality traits. Even over-the-counter sleep aids can do this, and it wouldn't be unusual for a cancer survivor to take these as well.

 

[BBB167893]

I think there is an interview with JR where he discusses Patsy being treated with medications, Klonopin is one that was found in the medicine cabinet. JR said that she was on some anti-anxiety meds before the murder. Most cancer survivors are on these kinds of meds, it isn't really unusual for Patsy to have been given them. Sometimes they are given during chemo, and continue after the treatments are over. I don't know how close to the murder she was still taking them. The day of? Days before, weeks, months? The effects of these kinds of drugs can make people behave in ways they ordinarily wouldn't or they can exaggerate certain personality traits. Even over-the-counter sleep aids can do this, and it wouldn't be unusual for a cancer survivor to take these as well.

I can vouch for that. I've seen it, TWICE. I also know that the effects of medications don't necessarily dissipate once you stop taking them.

 

[UKGuy]

Valid points but still not abnormal. Out of the ordinary would be a better way of putting it, perhaps.
Patsy was "nouveau riche". A breed apart from old money circles, within which the Rs may not have been welcomed. Money can't buy class, and Patsy's over- the- top way of doing things may have been considered crass by some. Her social class was decidedly middle-class, despite the money. Very wealthy young girls don't compete in these kiddie pageants as a rule. They may become debutantes, but they don't do the "Toddlers & Tiaras" route.
But some Miss Americas have gone on to become famous and well-known. Some have gone on to careers in the public eye. Some have married very wealthy men. But for the life of me, I can't recall the names of more than a handful. So much for eternal world-wide fame. And my grandfather used to work the lights at the Convention Hall in Atlantic City. I went to every pageant as a child because my parents would go down for the summer, and we'd stay in a guest cottage my grandparents rented all summer while my grandfather worked.
Yet Patsy (and Nedra) wanted that for JB very much, seeing as how Patsy herself, and her sister, missed that particular brass ring. Wonder if JB would have wanted it for herself, had she lived?

DeeDee249,
I reckon JonBenet would probably have wanted to carry on, as you suggest it seemed to be Patsy and Nedra that were motivating JonBenet. John did not seem to mind paying the required fees etc. I wonder if he watched JonBenet rehearsing and encouraged her, his role here appears opaque as does the grandfathers?

.

 

[DeeDee249]

DeeDee249,
I reckon JonBenet would probably have wanted to carry on, as you suggest it seemed to be Patsy and Nedra that were motivating JonBenet. John did not seem to mind paying the required fees etc. I wonder if he watched JonBenet rehearsing and encouraged her, his role here appears opaque as does the grandfathers?

.

I am sure he would have gone to some of the pageants. But for the most part, he seemed he left it to Patsy and Nedra. I would imagine he was pleased with her wins and told her so, as most parents would. But if it kept Patsy happy and occupied, well...you know the old saying:
Happy wife, happy life". My husband forgets that most of the time.

 

[joeskidbeck]

I have a question for anyone who may know the answer or where I can find it. Has it ever been stated or did Patsy ever tell what time she went to bed that night and/or approximately what time she went to sleep? I know John said he went to bed and was asleep before Patsy. I think this is crucial to the case no matter which side you come down on. If she was up doing her packing as she has stated it could have been very late when she went to sleep. Forgive me if this has been discussed before but I have not been able to find it.

 

[DeeDee249]

Unfortunately, Patsy's interviews are gone. I do recall her talking about the approximate time she arrived home, and I believe she mentioned doing things in preparation for the trip, but I don't recall her stating a specific time she went to bed.
I don't really think she went to bed at all. Neither do the police. She was wearing the same clothes, had all her makeup on, and her side of the bed didn't seem slept in (according to them). And actually, what time she SAID she went to bed really doesn't mean anything anyway because we have no way of knowing if she is telling the truth.

 

[UKGuy]

Unfortunately, Patsy's interviews are gone. I do recall her talking about the approximate time she arrived home, and I believe she mentioned doing things in preparation for the trip, but I don't recall her stating a specific time she went to bed.
I don't really think she went to bed at all. Neither do the police. She was wearing the same clothes, had all her makeup on, and her side of the bed didn't seem slept in (according to them). And actually, what time she SAID she went to bed really doesn't mean anything anyway because we have no way of knowing if she is telling the truth.

DeeDee249,

Well in JonBenet - The Police Files courtesy of the National Enquirer Patsy is on record stating that she went to bed around 9:30-10:00.

TT: About what time did you head up to bed that night?
PR: Um, probably around 9:30, 10:00, something like that.

In case anyone wants to read about the undressing, redressing, what patsy wore etc.

TT: Okay. Got home about 8:30, 9:00. What’s the fist thing you guy do when you got home that night? Actually, let me step back. Before you got home you went over to . . .

PR: Walkers and dropped of a little gift.

TT: Okay.

PR: And Stines and dropped off a little gift and drove home and JonBenet was asleep. She had fallen asleep in the car.

TT: Did you have to wake her up to get her inside or. . .

PR: Well, she was just really zonked and John carried her up to her room.

TT: Okay.

PR: And I uh, you know, ran up behind him and, or in front of him, I can’t remember. Maybe, or it might have been in front of him to turn the bed down.

TT: Um hum.

PR: And he laid her down and I got her undressed and put her, I left her shirt on her and uh, went in the bathroom and tried to find some pajama pants and all I could find was some, like long underwear pants. . .

TT: Um hum.

PR: . . .and put those on.

TT: What color of top did she wear to bed that night? What color top was she wearing actually to the White’s house like?

PR: Well she wore this little outfit that I had gotten her at the Gap. We had a little, little riff over that, cause I wanted her to wear, I was wearing a red sweater and I wanted her to wear this red sweater with her black velvet pant, cause I was wearing black velvet paths and it was Christmas and all that.

TT: Um hum.

PR: And she didn’t want to wear the red shirt just because I was wearing it. She wanted to wear the shirt that went with the outfit which was a Gap outfit that I had bought her when we went shopping for her and it was a little white, kind of neck like this, kind of a . . .

TT: Kind of a crew neck?

PR: . . .crew neck and it had a little, little rhinestone, little kind of sequin kind of star thing on it.

TT: Okay.

PR: So I just left that on her.

TT: Okay. And I’m sorry. What kind of pants, what color of pants. . .

PR: They were black velvet. Black velvet jeans, kind of like, from the Gap. Some little black velvet vest.

TT: And what were you wearing Patsy, a, a red turtleneck and black. . .

PR: Velvet jeans, yeah.

TT: Okay.

PR: Velvet pants. And I have a Christmas sweater I was wearing.

TT: And what color was that?

PR: Red with all kinds of . . .

TT: And that was over the turtleneck.

PR: Yeah.

TT: Okay. Okay. What did, what did Burke wear over to the White’s house that day?

PR: Oh, I don’t remember. I don’t remember.

TT: Okay. What about John? Remember having any idea what he wore that day?

PR: Um um. Unless I try to match us up I can’t remember.

TT: Okay. Formal, informal?

PR: Oh, it was casual yeah.

TT: Okay. Jeans type thing?

PR: Oh. . .

TT: (Inaudible)

PR: . . .no, no, I think it probably, I would have him probably him a khakis or something a little cleaned up.

TT: Okay. What did JonBenet wear on the night of the 25th with her little outfit as wear as, as far as shoes go, her footwear?

PR: Probably the, I don’t remember exactly, but she had these little black boots with zip up front that kind of went with that outfit. That’s what she normally wore with that, so I think she probably wore those, but I can’t remember exactly.

TT: When you say you wore black velvet jeans were those like a, a, were they a jean material like a 501?

PR: No they’re, no, no, no. They’re black velvet.

TT: Okay.

PR: But they’re not dress pants they’re. . .

TT: Did you wear uh, uh, flats or, or . . .

PR: Shoes you mean?

TT: . . .boots, or, what did. . .

PR: Oh yeah.

TT: . . .you have for footwear.

PR: Uh, I don’t remember. I don’t remember exactly.

TT: Okay.

PR: Black something probably.

TT: Black something?

PR: Black.

TT: To go with the black belt?

PR: (Inaudible)

TT: So John carries JonBenet upstairs, puts her to bed. You pull up the bed sheets. You find this top for her to wear or you just. . .

PR: We just left her top on her.

TT: . . .you leave the top on. . .

PR: Yeah.

TT: . . .uh, find a pair of. . .

PR: bottoms.

TT: . . .bottoms for her to wear. Um, did she wake up at all during this?

PR: No.

TT: Stayed pretty crashed out?

PR: Uh huh.

TT: Okay. Sounds asleep the whole time then.

PR: Um hum.

TT: Okay. Sound asleep the whole time then?

PR: Um hum.

TT: Okay. What did Burke do? Did he fall asleep on the way home also?

PR: No.

TT: Okay.

PR: He didn’t. I think he was, he’s still wanting to play.

TT: Okay. What did Burke do when you got home then.

PR: Um, I don’t remember exactly, but I think he went to go play with something. I think maybe he and John were fussing with something. A toy he wanted to put together or something.

TT: Okay.

PR: I was trying to finish putting together things for in the morning and. . .

TT: Okay. Finish kind of packing, again the suitcases on the bed. Were they all finished, packed up?

PR: Um, probably pretty close to it.

TT: Okay. And then the close to go to Charlevoix those were. . .

PR: Right.

TT: . . .in a plastic bag.

PR: Plastic bag. Um hum.

TT: And they were already to go? You said you carried down to (inaudible).

PR: Yeah.

TT: Okay. Burke and John go downstairs to play?

PR: No, I don’t really, don’t remember where they were. I was, after I got her ready for bed I just kind of ran about doing my last minute things and. . .

TT: Okay., What kind of last minute things did you have to take care of?

PR: Well just, you know, presents. I mean, I put some presents by the back door and I don’t remember exactly, just things to go to the lake or, and so we’re doing a couple of, you know, getting things ready cause we were leaving so early in the morning. . .

TT: Um hum.

PR: . . .getting things kind of laid out ready to go and that kind of thing.

TT: Okay. Do you have clothes laid out for JonBenet to wear in the morning? Did you lay her clothes out?

PR: Uh, I don’t remember laying them out, no.

TT: Okay. What about Burke? Same thing with him. Did you lay his clothes out or anything for the morning?

PR: I don’t remember dong that.

TT: About what time did you head up to bed that night?

PR: Um, probably around 9:30, 10:00 something like that.

TT: Okay. Um, did you guys try to wake up JonBenet at all or did she. . .

PR: She was zonked.

TT: Sound asleep. Didn’t wake up at all?

PR: Um hum.

TT: Was she awake at all when you were over at the Stine’s house?

PR: Uh, well, I just went to the door. We didn’t all go in. I just went to the door. . .

TT: Um hum.

PR: . . .and gave them a basket of something. . .

TT: Okay.

PR: . . .for a Christmas present or something. We were going, I remember, cause I had a big basket in the car to take to the Fernies, but since JonBenet had fallen asleep and it was getting kind of late. . .

TT: Um hum.

PR: . . .I think we just decided not to go to the Fernies.

TT: Okay. I think we need to change tapes as well. Let’s just take 30 seconds here real quick.

 

[Ames]

I think there is an interview with JR where he discusses Patsy being treated with medications, Klonopin is one that was found in the medicine cabinet. JR said that she was on some anti-anxiety meds before the murder. Most cancer survivors are on these kinds of meds, it isn't really unusual for Patsy to have been given them. Sometimes they are given during chemo, and continue after the treatments are over. I don't know how close to the murder she was still taking them. The day of? Days before, weeks, months? The effects of these kinds of drugs can make people behave in ways they ordinarily wouldn't or they can exaggerate certain personality traits. Even over-the-counter sleep aids can do this, and it wouldn't be unusual for a cancer survivor to take these as well.

And John said that Patsy had drank some glasses of wine at the White's Christmas party that night. That doesn't mix too well with that type of medication.

 

[claudicici]

@bold.Good point.
Do any of you know anything about exorcism/rituals,etc?Maybe Wecht and others who think it was a SEX game gone wrong are .....wrong.... and it was something else.Maybe it wasn't a game,maybe it was a ritual.
Btw,were the friends who participated in Patsy's healing ritual the same that were called there that morning (26)?
I never recall.
I still feel that it wasn't a coincidence that she was killed around Christmas and I am still fascinated ,(dunno if it's the right term to describe my feelings,thoughts....intrigued?) by the R's religious side.

I totally am intrigued by the religious side also.... garotte's were used to execute religious heretics ,I do think of a garotte more as an execution device than something used in a sexual/satanic or whatever ritual...if it was used to execute JB because she was "bad",because she was "rebellious",because she was "sexual".....and the RN seemed to be angry at either JR or his father....that kind of would make sense to me....the dictionary pointing to incest,the bible on the desk opened.....how close to JB's murder was PR's healing ritual?