GUILTY WI - 12-Year-Old Girls Stab Friend 19 Times for Slenderman, Waukesha, 31 May 2014 #1

[x_files]

I have a feeling this was just the springboard. Jmo

yes, I agree.

 

[HMSHood]

Not much changed since he was a kid, he continued to throw violent tantrums his entire life including in court on film.

Ted Bundy is an extremely batty child trapped in an adult body. I saw his tantrums in court and it is scary sight.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Many think Bundy killed as a young teenager also ..

Eight-year-old Ann Marie Burr vanished from her Tacoma home on August 31, 1961[341] when Bundy was 14. The Burr house was on Bundy's newspaper delivery route. The victim's father was certain that he saw Bundy in a ditch at a construction site on the nearby UPS campus the morning his daughter disappeared.[342] Other circumstantial evidence implicates him as well, but detectives familiar with the case have never agreed on the likelihood of his involvement.[60] Bundy repeatedly denied culpability and wrote a letter of denial to the Burr family in 1986;[343] but Keppel has observed that Burr fits all three of Bundy's "no discussion" categories of "too close to home", "too close to family", and "very young".[340] Forensic testing of material evidence from the Burr crime scene, in 2011, yielded insufficient intact DNA sequences for comparison with Bundy's.[344]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Bundy#Other_possible_victims

 

[Ausgirl]

JVM wonders if there was some other contributing factor in the home life of the girls.

Discusses how one of the perp girls dad is very into goth things on his own social media accounts.

Not addressing you personally, tlcya. But I just feel I need to compare these girls with my own daughter who:

- Has a dad who was a death-metal musician. She grew up listening to death metal in the car on family outings.

- Has a mum who was a goth metal chick. With all the trimmings. Whose hobbies include crochet, fishkeeping and researching murder cases.

- Grew up in a house where the bookcases are filled with true crime accounts of psychopaths and killers, as well as a stunning collection of horror literature.

- Was sung Ronnie Dio ballads for lullabys as an infant.

- Visited friends of the family who collected stuffed bats, kept black widows for pets and looked like Marilyn Manson on a good day.

- Has parents who have never shielded her from the truth of the world.

- Is NOT morbid. Or metal, or goth. She's just herself, and a good kid.

But if you believe the bollocky nonsense in the wowser press, she's be what? In danger of being a psycho? Tainted morally?

Give me a break.

These kids are disturbed. Quibble over psychopathy being a mental lllness or not, but it's being "not right in the head", the end. I suspect their parents might have something to do with it, even if it's just general neglect.

But don't be blaming their culture, because it's MY culture. And I raised my child *right*.

 

[tlcya]

Not addressing you personally, tlcya. But I just feel I need to compare these girls with my own daughter who:

- Has a dad who was a death-metal musician. She grew up listening to death metal in the car on family outings.

- Has a mum who was a goth metal chick. With all the trimmings. Whose hobbies include crochet, fishkeeping and researching murder cases.

- Grew up in a house where the bookcases are filled with true crime accounts of psychopaths and killers, as well as a stunning collection of horror literature.

- Was sung Ronnie Dio ballads for lullabys as an infant.

- Visited friends of the family who collected stuffed bats, kept black widows for pets and looked like Marilyn Manson on a good day.

- Has parents who have never shielded her from the truth of the world.

- Is NOT morbid. Or metal, or goth. She's just herself, and a good kid.

But if you believe the bollocky nonsense in the wowser press, she's be what? In danger of being a psycho? Tainted morally?

Give me a break.

These kids are disturbed. Quibble over psychopathy being a mental lllness or not, but it's being "not right in the head", the end. I suspect their parents might have something to do with it, even if it's just general neglect.

But don't be blaming their culture, because it's MY culture. And I raised my child *right*.

absolutely no offense taken As you say, was just covering the coverage and you have to consider the source.

 

[Ausgirl]

((hugs)) tlcya

"Kids who kill" are really interesting to study. Like the vast majority of serial killers (with a few stand-out exceptions, as noted above) they *usually* come from extremely dysfunctional homes.

Speaking of my daughter, last year she developed an interest in the case of Mary Bell as she was mentioned in some reference at school, and of course we just went straight to mummy's bookshelf and pulled out a few books that detailed the case. I'd never looked into it in depth. What we discovered was that Mary was likely sold by her mother as a child prostitute, and suffered other horrific abuses. She'd been acting out for a long time before she started killing. My lovely daughter felt very bad for Mary, and was most impressed by how Mary seems to have overcome the damage done to her as a child while in prison and is now living a normal life on the outside. "There was hope for her, Mum" - awh, bless.

Rare cases are the kids of high intelligence, lacking social skills, who are true psychopaths (aka 'sociopaths', it really is the exact same term) and just don't have the capacity for empathy - Leopold and Loeb come to mind, they planned a murder for seven months and came from "good" families. They also had incredibly high IQ's. But no empathy, their victim was not a person, just a "subject" in their experiment in committing the 'perfect murder'.

This in turn led me to a bit of a research spree - the other thing that often comes into play is 'folie a deux', TWO kids, even if one is just an offsider who doesn't do the killing, there's usually a 'best friend' involved. Leopold and Loeb, Mary Bell and her mate, the Jamie Bulger killers... so many cases where there's two kids or more.

Here's a really good article on recent studies:


In studying violent children, Dr. Lewis has found that about four-fifths have witnessed extreme violence directed at themselves or others, usually in their own homes. This is true for only 20 percent of nonviolent children, she said. ''It curdles your blood to hear what the parents have done,'' she said.

Dr. Lewis is among the researchers who believe ''the best predictor of violence is past violence. The earlier the violence, the worse the prognosis.''

http://www.nytimes.com/1983/10/11/science/children-who-kill-personality-patterns-are-identified.html

 

[PrimeSuspect]

A 12-year-old girl accused of plotting to kill a friend to curry favor with a fictional character she read stories about online shows signs of mental illness and should be in a hospital, her defense attorney said Tuesday.

http://www.wfaa.com/news/crime/Attorney-12-year-old-charged-in-slenderman-stabbing-mentally-ill--261722391.html

IMO, Geyer has some form of mental illness, her friend seems to have been caught up in it as in folie à deux. As others have mentioned, the two teens in New Zealand which Heavenly Creatures is based on, have a similar history of fantasy fueled psychosis.
Interestingly, both women have gone on to live exemplary lives, never allowed to contact each other since the end of their incarceration. One writes murder mystery novels under another name.


As a child, I also repeated urban legends, talked incessantly about murders I read in stories or watched in movies. I suppose I was fascinated with death at their age too. This of course may have resulted from my parents dying when I was a child, but never did I plan to murder anyone. I knew that death was final, no coming back, so it was inconceivable to think of such a thing.
I can only think a mental illness is responsible in this case. :moo:

 

[Ausgirl]

Charged as adults sounds reasonable to me. 19 holes in the victims body, one girl holding her down while the other one stabbed and stabbed barely missing major arteries. Listed in the articles up thread.

I can imagine this little girl waking up at night screaming from nightmares of a knife stabbing her, girls she thought were her friends. I don't know what will happen to the defendants but hopefully this victim will get the help she will need for years to come. Jmo

ciao

I haven't been able to bring myself to think about their victim much, because I find myself imagining her during the crime too clearly. Poor child, I do hope she gets all the help she needs to heal, on all levels. How will she ever trust a friend again? Terrible.

 

[katydid23]

I agree, AusGirl. The most debilitating wounds are going to be the profound loss of trust and friendship that she will endure for many years. It will be a cross to bear for a long while. I hope she has a strong supportive family to help her through it.

My favorite memories from that age are those involving close friends, and running through parks and having those types of sleepovers, that turned into a nightmare for her. Poor Sweet Baby. May Peace Prevail.

 

[Sonya610]

creepypasta is kinda a joke site, so it may not be filtered to young pre-teens. No one takes the Slender Man seriously, it was kinda a campfire, Urban Legend tall tale.
http://creepypasta.wikia.com/wiki/The_Slender_Man

I read a few creepypasta stories last night.

Many seem to be written by young teenagers (just guessing but maybe 12-14 age range). I say that because the punctuation and grammar are often quite faulty but you can tell the individual is trying very yard. Years ago I ran a story site that featured themes involving murder etc... and read literally thousands of stories so I have some experience with whats out there.

The goal seems to be creating stories that are either scary OR humorous, many involve really graphic violence (stabbings, beheadings, etc...) but often described in a very simplistic way; I think many of the writers are simply too young to create truly disturbing imagery which makes the violence seem flat.

 

[Sonya610]

Oh and another odd thing that distinguishes many of these stories from the old urban legends where scary "adult" monsters killed teenagers.

Most of the victims are kids however many of the killers are kids too! Instead of adults doing things to teens it seems kids stabbing other kids is a popular theme. That also seems to speak to the fact the average age of participants is probably very young.

Here is an example, story is based on a popular "Jeff the Killer" character that is featured in many other stories, notice the comments at the bottom in which people critique the writing. http://www.creepypasta.com/jeff-the-killer/

 

[soyesterday]

creepypasta is kinda a joke site, so it may not be filtered to young pre-teens. No one takes the Slender Man seriously, it was kinda a campfire, Urban Legend tall tale.
http://creepypasta.wikia.com/wiki/The_Slender_Man

My boys watch Creepypasta all the time. They love it.
I havne't had any problems with them at all from watching it.
They're teenagers and we're pretty strict at what we acutally
let them watch.
It does scare my 12 year old so we don't let them watch it all around
her, but she does know who Slenderman is. :/

 

[SilkySifaka]

I wasn't the first to mention it, but this case reminds me of:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parker–Hulme_murder_case

1950s. These two girls had an intense friendship and an extremely complicated fantasy life. Their parents wanted to separate them, so they killed the mother of one of the girls. The daughter had planned it out in her diary. They were caught and jailed immediately.

The movie Heavenly Creatures by Peter Jackson tells the story, and uses some excerpts from the diary. It reminds me of this case because these two girls got together and then built this little fantasy together that had absolutely nothing to do with real life. It's not even possible, at this length of time, to tell if they were "sociopaths", as we would quickly presume today. They weren't imprisoned all that long, and I don't think either ever committed another crime.

The other girl, not the daughter, went on to become a famous mystery writer under a pseudonym.

They never did commit another crime, the daughter became heavily involved in her catholic church and the friend became Anne Perry the multimillionaire authoress of my favorite mysteries ever. I have read every single one multiple times. They are set in the 1800's, victorian england and each takes on some form of social issue that is very sensitively handled. She has completely turned her life around and is a good example of why kids should be treated as kids. So is the daughter.

 

[AnaTeresa]

It is more than just 'we hear about it more.'

How often did a kid slaughter 20 2nd graders or 13 kids in the lunchroom or spray a movie theatre with an automatic weapon? Now that is commonplace behavior.

Yes, we have automatic weapons now, thus a higher body count. But as others on this thread have pointed out, this sort of behavior has gone on for a long time.

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States"]List of school shootings in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

 

[AnaTeresa]

http://www.wfaa.com/news/crime/Attorney-12-year-old-charged-in-slenderman-stabbing-mentally-ill--261722391.html

IMO, Geyer has some form of mental illness, her friend seems to have been caught up in it as in folie à deux. As others have mentioned, the two teens in New Zealand which Heavenly Creatures is based on, have a similar history of fantasy fueled psychosis.
Interestingly, both women have gone on to live exemplary lives, never allowed to contact each other since the end of their incarceration. One writes murder mystery novels under another name.


As a child, I also repeated urban legends, talked incessantly about murders I read in stories or watched in movies. I suppose I was fascinated with death at their age too. This of course may have resulted from my parents dying when I was a child, but never did I plan to murder anyone. I knew that death was final, no coming back, so it was inconceivable to think of such a thing.
I can only think a mental illness is responsible in this case. :moo:

Yes, I've always been fascinated by crime, by serial killers, and by ghost stories. Never was one for horror movies, goth stuff, or gore, but I was looking at photos of the Black Dahlia murder when I was around these girls' ages. I also had a huge interest in vampires and that sorts of stuff. Read far, far too much VC Andrews. I've never had so much as a speeding ticket, and now I'm working in criminal law. I contemplated for a while going into the FBI. Having an interest in these types of materials is not an indication that someone is going to commit a crime. I think they end up being an easy scapegoat.

 

[Elley Mae]

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainmen...e-monster-cited-in-wisconsin-stabbing-report/

snipped

“It’s pretty clear (they) are a couple of disturbed individuals who had their own issues. It’s (not right) to blame that external muse,” he told FOX411.

snipped

Representative of the Creepypasta Community even launched a crowd-sourced fundraiser on YouCaring.com to raise $10,000 for the stabbing victim over the next month.

snipped

As of Wednesday morning, it had 45 supporters had raised $370.

 

[pjclover]

I agree that the fascination with Slenderman was little more than a pre-occupation of the girls, a modern day urban legend that occupied some of their time and appealed to the darker aspects of their personalities.

When something really shocking and awful happens, it makes us feel unsettled. How could this happen? Why did this happen? Often, in order to make that unsettling feeling go away, we assign a convenient scapegoat to take the blame. It feels better when we think we know what the cause is, because then we feel like we can protect ourselves from it. Oh, these girls attempted to kill because they were obsessed with an internet character? Okay, I'll make sure my kids never look at Creepypasta or talk about Slenderman and we'll be okay.

But it's not that simple, is it?

Juveniles have been murdering since the dawn of time, but the DOJ shows that arrest rates of individuals between the ages of 10-17 is sharply down from where it peaked in the mid 1990s.

It's fascinating to look at the criminal psychology behind juvenile murders, especially girls, and especially when the attempt is so pre-meditated and personal. Most young killers kill for revenge, parenticide, or spree killings in schools, or as a result of personal disputes often drug and gang related. And we look at those and we can explain them. Oh, he was abused. She was bullied. He was dealing drugs and it went bad.

Although we can't ever know for sure, I don't think that this type of killing can be explained by a single factor. More often than not, it's a variety of reasons. Troubled background, early difficulties fitting in with peers, lack of parental involvement and supervision (or, inversely, a feeling too much parental involvement that has stifled social and independent relationships), mental health and substance abuse problems, negative outside influences.

But, juveniles who kill in pairs? That's a little different. Sometimes the folie a deux comes into play. I think this was the case in the NZ killings on which Heavenly Creatures was based (Juliet Hulme and Pauline Parker). I think that rehabilitation can be successful in these cases, when the two stay apart from each other.

I also think there is another type of juvenile pair killers, where one partner is the dominant partner, perhaps sociopathic. Rehab may be successful for only one partner, as with Cindy Collier and Shirley Wolf who stabbed an 85 year old woman to death for fun in the 1980s for "fun." Cindy went on to study law after spending almost a decade in jail, started a family and has never been in trouble since. Shirley has been in and out of prison ever since.

If I'm reading correctly, one girl (Morgan?) brought the knife, initiated the attack, and did the stabbing while the other held the victim down? I'm unsure because another article stated that the girls gave different events of the story.

I think that the Slenderman angle is just a 2010's (what are we calling this decade anyway??) version of Satanic Panic. Convenient to blame, hard to understand, but really just smoke and mirrors.

As always, just my opinions.

- PJ

 

[bt208]

Not addressing you personally, tlcya. But I just feel I need to compare these girls with my own daughter who:

- Has a dad who was a death-metal musician. She grew up listening to death metal in the car on family outings.

- Has a mum who was a goth metal chick. With all the trimmings. Whose hobbies include crochet, fishkeeping and researching murder cases.

- Grew up in a house where the bookcases are filled with true crime accounts of psychopaths and killers, as well as a stunning collection of horror literature.

- Was sung Ronnie Dio ballads for lullabys as an infant.

- Visited friends of the family who collected stuffed bats, kept black widows for pets and looked like Marilyn Manson on a good day.

- Has parents who have never shielded her from the truth of the world.

- Is NOT morbid. Or metal, or goth. She's just herself, and a good kid.

But if you believe the bollocky nonsense in the wowser press, she's be what? In danger of being a psycho? Tainted morally?

Give me a break.

These kids are disturbed. Quibble over psychopathy being a mental lllness or not, but it's being "not right in the head", the end. I suspect their parents might have something to do with it, even if it's just general neglect.

But don't be blaming their culture, because it's MY culture. And I raised my child *right*.

I'm more convinced by the minute that these girls had planned on using the slender man as an excuse, in case they were caught. I believe that the parent's cultural interests lent these girls 'ideas' but certainly did not make them kill.

 

[appleeye]

I'm more convinced by the minute that these girls had planned on using the slender man as an excuse, in case they were caught. I believe that the parent's cultural interests lent these girls 'ideas' but certainly did not make them kill.

I am not so quick to blame the parents as many are. Yes, they may have "different" interests but half of society is into "alternative" ideas.

I am very interested in true crime, and fascinated with these crimes in the news. I have been known to get lost in a crime or two. None of this comes from the fact that my father smokes weed or from my mother.

My kids, have no interest. In a 12 year old mind, I don't see them using slenderman as an excuse. I wouldn't be surprised if their mind had blurred the lines between reality and fantasy all on their own.

They were on their way to the forest and had packed pictures of their family. In their mind, they were leaving town.

The human mind is fragile. I believe these are sick, sociopaths.

 

[Ausgirl]

I'm more convinced by the minute that these girls had planned on using the slender man as an excuse, in case they were caught. I believe that the parent's cultural interests lent these girls 'ideas' but certainly did not make them kill.

There's about probably about1000 times more psychotic killers that have fixated on Christian iconography than those who fixate on gothic/metal stuff. Kids with violent mental issues are going to fixate on whatever offers them a sense of power, an excuse to vent their violent fantasies. Christ, Slenderman, Ozzie Osbourne, wicca, Barney the Dinosaur, it doesn't matter and it wouldn't matter. If it wasn't the gothic stuff giving them 'ideas' it'd be something off the telly, or the internet. Or you know, the Bible.

That's *if* it gave them ideas, which we don't really know. That association comes from kneejerk speculation over the parent's FB page or something.

My daughter rejected her parental influences. Apparently we're lame and nowhere near as cool as the grunge movement. Kids, eh.