Identified! WI - Delafield, WhtMale, UP7632, car stolen, lighter, Sep'77 - John Lindberg Scott

[Mensch]

I am tossing this in. Check it out or not, but I see a resemblence in overall appearance and circumstances could work. The physical stats do and I will do more research because I believe this is a viable case for a match.

I have no way of knowing when the photo of this missing person was taken but he looks younger than the age he went missing (voluntary missing).
Check the brow line. Not his L one because it appears it is distorted by an injury from the accident. Check the right one and the raised dot over the outside upper most arch (not much of an arch to his eyebrows. Also a raised skin area under and to the R of his R nostril. Same points for both. Not a big deal but considering a facial likeness (mo) it could be used to get a review.

Also the structure of the head and the mouth area. There is no mention of two teeth replacements but a year time frame between the MP and the UP.
http://z10.invisionfree.com/usedtobedoe/index.php?showtopic=59897&st=0&#last

 

[Cubby]

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David Arthur Stack



CASE TYPE: MISSING
INCIDENT DATE: Jun 1, 1976
CASE #: 76-0001
AGE: 18
DOB: Jul 5, 1957
HEIGHT: 6' 0 "
WEIGHT: 155 lbs
GENDER: MALE
HAIR: Brown
EYES: Brown
RACE: Caucasian
STATUS: OPEN
CITY: Broomfield
COUNTY: Broomfield County
DATE OF DEATH: Unknown

About This Case:
In June 1976, 19 year old David Arthur Stack left his residence in the 200 block of Laurel Street in Broomfield, Colorado, with the stated intention of hitchhiking to California. His ultimate destination was possibly his siblings' homes in either Truckee or Berkeley. He never reached either destination, and hasn't been seen or heard from since.







https://www.colorado.gov/apps/coldcase/casedetail.html?id=2261

 

[Mensch]

Thanks Cubby, I show it to be a direct link but I did not mention you have to scroll.
I found a url with a different missing date. Here is a link to a family entry from a brother. He notes the missing date to be 1973. This could account for the photo that appears earlier than the missing date. I failed to mention that my facial skin scanner is picking up a "valley" in the chin area. Very faint, but still there and it could be a dimple. Sometimes a "cleft" in the chin is not so evident until the person matures.

http://www.1800peoplesearch.com/missing/search2004/2004-12-5-0-5650.htm

 

[Cubby]

YW Mensch. I see the resemblence. I think the picture looks like a HS photo.

I don't know how I would explain him expected in California and ending up in IL/WI but stranger things have happened. If our previous theory regarding why the UID may have been in Wheaton, IL is accurate it could explain going from longer hair to shorter hair.

I just don't know how WI would compare a possible match since they have what they are calling antiquated finger prints and no dna.

Don't know if David Stack had dental problems which may have caused the need for a partial denture.

hth

ETA: What shows of Davids teeth they look pretty nice and straight.

 

[Mensch]

YW Mensch. I see the resemblence. I think the picture looks like a HS photo.

I don't know how I would explain him expected in California and ending up in IL/WI but stranger things have happened. If our previous theory regarding why the UID may have been in Wheaton, IL is accurate it could explain going from longer hair to shorter hair.

I just don't know how WI would compare a possible match since they have what they are calling antiquated finger prints and no dna.

Don't know if David Stack had dental problems which may have caused the need for a partial denture.

hth

ETA: What shows of Davids teeth they look pretty nice and straight.

I am not sure one would have to explain a teenager leaving home hitch hiking and telling his family he was going to see family. If so, why hitch hike? Anyone who has had a teenager knows they sometimes have no intent to go where they say. I can see this will be a problem with LE but David does have family, at least as of 2004 and still listed in CT, so some of the questions can be answered. Wen I submit, I always communicate with the ME, anthropologist or coroner and send a courtesy CC to the LE agencies. One anthropologist told me it does not matter if the MP dropped down from Mars as long as there was something scientific to hang a hat on. I know LE already has a fixed scenario and aren't too keen on being questioned by Jane Q citizen.

 

[carterkatt]

You all have done a fantastic job on this un id'd person. Thank you.

I have 2 questions - and forgive me if they are silly or already discussed.

I know there was speculation that our person may have been in a stolen car ring. If so... would it make sense he'd have the many sets of keys? Wouldn't he have to hot wire them? What other jobs would require him to carry multiple sets of keys? Valet? (altho I would think he'd hang them on the board)

And.. the clothes... They sound a bit odd for his age and that time period. Maybe, if he did indeed get them from that upscale shop, they were on the clearance rack? I was 17 back then... and all "typical" guys then wore T shirts, Levis, etc.. not fur trimmed jackets, etc..

thoughts?

 

[nerosleuth]

masnitram

I'm not sure how far I would go back prior to the 14th, but perhaps this John Doe was recently released from being booked (if not sentenced for something) and had hung out in the immediate area for a bit receiving some charity for new clothing prior to trying to head back to WI.

just a thought.

If he was arrested and taken to the local jail, wouldn't he be fingerprinted at his booking? I always thought LE took your mug shot and fingerprints even if you are in jail for a couple of hours.

Unless he was released on his own recognizance, he would have to post bond on his own or use a bail bondsman to get out of jail.

If he used a bail bondsman, the bondsman would also take his mug shot for their records, but I don't know if the bondsman would also take his fingerprints as well.

One possibility is that he had contact with the law where he wasn't arrested but was given a citation to appear in court.

In addition to checking the booking and inmate listing for that time period, I would look into checking the court records to see if there was anyone who was supposed to appear in court, but didn't show up and a bench warrant was issued by the court for failure to appear.

 

[Cubby]

I spoke with my step dad who is retired LE in IL from 1966-1986. (Not DuPage)

I asked him his thoughts on the clothing and the possibility of this UID being an exiting inmate from DPC jail. Heagreed it was very plausible given the info we know. He thought perhaps the county had a contract or agreement of somekind with Gaedes to provide exiting inmates with clothing at cost or close to cost. He suggested that if that were the case the inmate would have been provided clothing while still incarcerated rather than choosing to shop at this store a few blocks away. It sounded very possible to me. He agreed on checking the booking and inmate list for the 30 days prior to 9-14-77. DuPage may be able to check their info for anyone matching the UID's age and description along with possible first name.

He also said old prints are usually photographed to be entered electronically. Though it is possible prints from 77 might not be in any/many electronic data bases as of yet. If this guy was in DuPage his print card might be on file somewhere too.

In IL a request must go through to discard any possible evidence and this kind of info.. and if I know DuPage I see them being a county to hang onto things and not discard much.

hth

 

[Cubby]

I am not sure one would have to explain a teenager leaving home hitch hiking and telling his family he was going to see family. If so, why hitch hike? Anyone who has had a teenager knows they sometimes have no intent to go where they say. I can see this will be a problem with LE but David does have family, at least as of 2004 and still listed in CT, so some of the questions can be answered. Wen I submit, I always communicate with the ME, anthropologist or coroner and send a courtesy CC to the LE agencies. One anthropologist told me it does not matter if the MP dropped down from Mars as long as there was something scientific to hang a hat on. I know LE already has a fixed scenario and aren't too keen on being questioned by Jane Q citizen.

Good points. Respectfully, by my questions I meant here within the posters discussing the case at WS. In other words the question about hitching was for discussion here, not necessarily to ask LE.

On different note, in the past we like to have one main 'forum/thread' contact with LE regarding a case rather than having tons of people calling. Since masnitram has been in regular contact with the WI detective working this particular case and he has been willing to share a great bit of detail of case file info, any questions we may have or theories we may have would be best to be communicated between manistram and the detective with regards to the theories discussed here.

That doesn't mean you shouldn't send a possible match directly yourself. The one contact thing is just something we try to do here at WS rather than having dozens of people calling LE with the same info so say they don't get the same possible match submitted umpteen times.

hth

 

[Mensch]

I don't call LE. I compile my report and send to ME with a cc to LE along with my phone number. If LE calls - I talk with them. Since I have been searching for David Arthur Stack as a missing person unrelated to this case, I have documented my notes on my search, posted a photo of David, the person I believe to be this UID, made my screen shots and am waiting for masnitram to come on and reply and go from there. I did not mean to disrupt a discussion on circumstances. I only look for possible matches. The circumstances are anyones guess - even when on a report.

 

[masnitram]

I don't call LE. I compile my report and send to ME with a cc to LE along with my phone number. If LE calls - I talk with them. Since I have been searching for David Arthur Stack as a missing person unrelated to this case, I have documented my notes on my search, posted a photo of David, the person I believe to be this UID, made my screen shots and am waiting for masnitram to come on and reply and go from there. I did not mean to disrupt a discussion on circumstances. I only look for possible matches. The circumstances are anyones guess - even when on a report.

Mensch- Great minds think alike! Post #75 on this thread I bring up a Mr. David Arthur Stack. I am waiting (another call is in order to Colorado) on if David had the same dental issues and scarring. With the link you provided from his brother...I may go that route and see if I can find James current information.

* ya know what, I did send David in for comparison to Waukesha earlier....but I'm not sure if it was to my current contact...I'll check on that.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5531494&postcount=75

 

[Cubby]

I don't call LE. I compile my report and send to ME with a cc to LE along with my phone number. If LE calls - I talk with them. Since I have been searching for David Arthur Stack as a missing person unrelated to this case, I have documented my notes on my search, posted a photo of David, the person I believe to be this UID, made my screen shots and am waiting for masnitram to come on and reply and go from there. I did not mean to disrupt a discussion on circumstances. I only look for possible matches. The circumstances are anyones guess - even when on a report.

Thanks my misunderstanding. :blushing:

 

[masnitram]

I spoke with my step dad who is retired LE in IL from 1966-1986. (Not DuPage)

I asked him his thoughts on the clothing and the possibility of this UID being an exiting inmate from DPC jail. Heagreed it was very plausible given the info we know. He thought perhaps the county had a contract or agreement of somekind with Gaedes to provide exiting inmates with clothing at cost or close to cost. He suggested that if that were the case the inmate would have been provided clothing while still incarcerated rather than choosing to shop at this store a few blocks away. It sounded very possible to me. He agreed on checking the booking and inmate list for the 30 days prior to 9-14-77. DuPage may be able to check their info for anyone matching the UID's age and description along with possible first name.

He also said old prints are usually photographed to be entered electronically. Though it is possible prints from 77 might not be in any/many electronic data bases as of yet. If this guy was in DuPage his print card might be on file somewhere too.

In IL a request must go through to discard any possible evidence and this kind of info.. and if I know DuPage I see them being a county to hang onto things and not discard much.

hth

This is outstanding news! And I like the idea of the clothing being a contract deal between Gaede's and the local jail. Even by 70's standards the clothes (as mentioned earlier) seemed to be quite the mishmash. Perhaps they only gave out/sold slightly damaged or discontinued merchandise...


Regarding the fingerprints; I have to find out exactly how the process was handled.

 

[masnitram]

You all have done a fantastic job on this un id'd person. Thank you.

I have 2 questions - and forgive me if they are silly or already discussed.

I know there was speculation that our person may have been in a stolen car ring. If so... would it make sense he'd have the many sets of keys? Wouldn't he have to hot wire them? What other jobs would require him to carry multiple sets of keys? Valet? (altho I would think he'd hang them on the board)

And.. the clothes... They sound a bit odd for his age and that time period. Maybe, if he did indeed get them from that upscale shop, they were on the clearance rack? I was 17 back then... and all "typical" guys then wore T shirts, Levis, etc.. not fur trimmed jackets, etc..

thoughts?

Thanks carterkatt! I brought up the stolen car ring much earlier as there was some local Wisconsin "chop shops" that were rather notorious in the 70's. One was in the Waukesha County area and run by the Milwaukee Chapter of the "Outlaws" motorcycle gang while the other was near Appleton,WI (run by "conventional" thugs). I highly doubt our JD was a member of the "Outlaws" but I can't speak of the group run out of Appleton. However the info on that group is limited...

As far as the job, before I spoke to the detective there wasn't really much of anything to go on regarding the JD. When I found out he had a card for a local RV/Camper dealership, the detective stated he felt he may have worked there and added to that fact both the Gurnee PD and Waukesha Sheriffs feel the man was local. But you are correct, those job possibilities have been considered..but there isn't a whole lot to go on.

And yes, the clothes are an odd mix. As Cubby mentioned..perhaps there may have been an agreement between the Wheaton jail and Gaede's to provide clothing to released inmates.

 

[Cubby]

thanks masnitram. I know DuPage contracted with local farmers in the 60's to provide eggs and such for inmates so it is really not a stretch to think they contracted with a local clothing store to provide exiting inmates with clothing.

I didn't find confirmation the jail was housed in the same building as the courthouse back in 77, but if not the jail would have still been in the same immediate area. If I find an exact address I'll add it.

 

[masnitram]

Ok, the library books and the clothes....both mens and womens did belong to our JD.

Here is the email reply from the detective:

"Misc clothing for both men and women. When I talked with the owner of the vehicle he told me that the clothing and the books did not belong to him."

So JD was on a bicycle in Gurnee, IL at approximately 3am with three bags of clothing and library books? He had to have stolen the vehicle much earlier then the approximated time!

So he had to be relatively local at that time in order to take the stolen car to wherever his residence was at the time....pick up his clothes and books and hit the road.

**I again reread my notes; I must have misunderstood what the detective stated about the contents of the vehicle. I knew the lighter didn't belong to the vehicle owner as well as the library books. My bad; I do see that he said the clothing wasn't considered useful (I took that to mean it was unclear who it belonged to and NOT that it DID belong to our JD...but was subsequently not found to be useful at the time).

 

[Mensch]

Mensch- Great minds think alike! Post #75 on this thread I bring up a Mr. David Arthur Stack. I am waiting (another call is in order to Colorado) on if David had the same dental issues and scarring. With the link you provided from his brother...I may go that route and see if I can find James current information.

* ya know what, I did send David in for comparison to Waukesha earlier....but I'm not sure if it was to my current contact...I'll check on that.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5531494&postcount=75

Teeeriffiiiic! That is great news masnitram! I should read the entire thread first, eh? Can you follow up soon on your submitted contact? I have an obligation to the MP (David) that I have been searching for. I know you will understand that I can't just assume it is taken care of. When I turn one in, I cannot make that assumption because sometimes communication gets "filed" on another person's desk, held over until after lunch or passed on to someone else who hasn't a clue what to do with a cold case.
I just don't understand why you or anyone would have to contact the family or know the circumstances of the case? I can't imagine sending a postmortem photo to a family member! If the circumstances are workable, such as voluntary missing, the time is not way off, and more importantly, the image characteristics are similar then why not go ahead and send in your findings with side by side photos and get an answer one way or another? With all this discussion wouldn't it be just as "possible" that David had a friend who loaned him the car....so many things it could be without vilifying him further. Why is it even relevant? Does that make sense?
I am only interested in getting the fastest possible resolution to these cases....bottom line kind of thing and that is a image possible sent to get a review for closure to the case. Just trying to understand the process here.
Thanks for all your efforts here!

ETA...I made the example of a friend loaning him the car because logic dictates he had a "home base" somewhere close. It is 3 am and he is clean shaven and he had no shaving kit in the car? All the "possibles" are speculation and I really am trying to understand the relevance.

 

[Cubby]

First I would like to make a mod note, due to some above discussion on possibly contacting the family of a MP. Tricia has made note in various area's of the forum it is never ok to contact family of a crime victim on behalf of websleuths. The general rule of thumb is we bring info to LE and LE can make contact with the family if they deem necessary. We do have some family we work with, and in those cases family has reached out to ourselves.

I'm being a bit cautious regarding this topic as we had an incident within the last few days with a former WS member harrassing a crime victims family to the point where the family had to ask this former member to stop contacting them. Unfortunately WS had to remove all reference to this victims case from the forum due to this unfortunate situation. While different circumstance, it is never ok for WS's to contact crime victims on behalf of WS. For further explaination pls see the following post from Tricia.
Contacting Crime Victim Family Members - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Please don't take the above the wrong way that I am insinuating anyone working this case or participating here in the UID forum would behave in the same manner the former member did. I am sharing this due to previous discussion regarding family members and want to make sure anyone reading understands WS policy on contacting family. And I am doing so to be extra cautious in light of recent events.

If you have any further questions regarding this rule please send them to me off forum via pm.

Thank you kindly,
Cubby

 

[Cubby]

Respectfully Mensch, the information made available to the public regarding Davids case and that he was known to hitchhike does not necessarily mean that information was made public to vilify him. Many not so pretty details are made available regarding a missing person such as they were a known transient, had substance abuse problems etc. to help narrow the field for which the public to assist.
Part of what we do here at WS is discuss cases.

There is a sticky thread which precedes my involvement here in the UID on what to do when deciding whether or not to submit. It is a general guideline offered for those who wish to assist or learn with matching or sleuthing missing persons and UIDs.

Tips before submitting - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community


It basically boils down to the differences in knowledge, experience, software and or resources each WS member brings to the table here. We need to keep that in mind and respect what everyone here has to offer. We each might do things a little differently. Some might need more discussion, and assistance to help them learn the ropes. Everyone is welcome, everyones thoughts and idea's are welcome provided they comply with TOS. We each have the choice to which threads we read, how much of the discussion we wish to read.


Respectfully,
Cubby

 

[nerosleuth]

What other jobs would require him to carry multiple sets of keys? Valet? thoughts?

Could the JD have been a locksmith?

Maybe he worked for an automotive locksmith service. That would be one occupation that I can think of that would have multiple set of keys.