GUILTY WI - Dr. Beth Potter and husband murdered at UW Arboretum, Madison, March 2020 *Arrests*

[Charlot123]

Maybe there was more cash in the home because the parents withdrew some extra for emergency purposes lately?

We don’t know if there was a lot of cash. Despite her good looks, MPC could have been deeply insecure about herself, and about the relationship. Some people brag of being rich to make partners feel that they are worthy of love, like other kids “buy” friendship.

I would be interested in finding out about M’s grades and social adaptation, especially in comparison to her brothers’ ones.

Now, in my world, two 18-year-olds are not “teens”, they are young adults. Not commenting on the perpetrators - what is there to say? - a hideous crime, all the more so that the successful slain couple, obviously, had felt they did owe to the world and less privileged, and lived up to their ideals,

But the daughter...really not right in her head. Now her own life is destroyed, not to speak of others.

 

[Charlot123]

Not so fast. Does anyone know how old the daughter was when they adopted her? If she was not a baby, or adopted from overseas, who knows what kind of abuse she endured before she came to them?

Sometimes the abuse is prenatal, and not intentional. Malnutrition or lack of prenatal care is abuse as well. Likewise, of course, substance abuse by the bio parents.

But in this situation, it seems from the MM, that the adoptive parents tried to reconnect M. with her bio family, and M. had certain relationships with some of them.

I wonder if her brothers were the couple’s bio children. M. had a double last name, and the brothers looked not unlike the parents. JMO - it might have added into the complex dynamic between M. and adoptive parents in that she felt she did not quite belong. It takes a while to reach an understanding and balance in such cases.

One more feeling I am left with is that Potter-Carre were people of high social responsibility and, obviously, the donors to many social causes. Such parents raise their kids in “sharing” traditions, but children are different. They may need to go through the phase of spending on themselves, clothes and cosmetics, before they mature. I would not be surprised if emotionally, M was not quite 18 and did not yet have the capacity to process her parents’ lessons.

I think that her mother’s sadness when the BF moved in had to with the realization that despite all their efforts, their daughter grew up egotistical.

 

[Charlot123]

So their daughter was adopted from Guatemala. Wonder if their sons were adopted to?

Not by the looks or the last name, but one can never tell.

 

[Charlot123]

My feeling is that daughter and boyfriend being asked to move was not the motive for these murders. These 2 suspects have no respect for human life and did not care about the cruelty and the terror they inflicted on these two innocent victims. Being asked to move doesn't trigger someone to shoot 2 people in the head. JMO

It could have been the motive if the BF felt he was “dissed”.

 

[Charlot123]

I am interested in the definition of “teenagers”. I looked up “juvenile court” and “age of majority”, it seems that in US, except for Nebraska and Alabama, it is 18 years of age. In Neb and Ala, it is 19. So the perps are adults, or am I wrong? And so is MPC.

 

[katydid23]

Abandonment Issue?
@katydid23 ^ Yes, entirely possible adopted dau was very sensitive about this.
OTOH, based on Mother's friend's comment re Mother sending dau & BF to airbnb, does not seem Mother 'threw them out of house and onto the street penniless.' Although we do not know, I got impression that Mother/parents planned to foot the bill for airbnb. Jmo, could be wrong.
Or is it possible Mother told her friend a reason varying a shade or two from the absolute, positive factual unvarnished truth? Perhaps she was aware of young man's prior arrest, etc?
Tragic deaths, regardless.

I know they were not kicked out onto the streets, penniless. But even so, adopted kids often have extreme sensitivity to feeling rejected, and being asked to leave the family home and move to an air BnB, even if it was being paid for by mom, it would be felt like it was an emotional rejection of some kind. JMO IMO

I am NOT defending the murders, obviously. Just trying to understand what set things off.

 

[Inthedetails]

I know they were not kicked out onto the streets, penniless. But even so, adopted kids often have extreme sensitivity to feeling rejected, and being asked to leave the family home and move to an air BnB, even if it was being paid for by mom, it would be felt like it was an emotional rejection of some kind. JMO IMO

I am NOT defending the murders, obviously. Just trying to understand what set things off.

I'm curious about previous relationships in the family. Did they bond? Or were there always struggles? My hunch is that there were struggles.

I don't think TOS allows much discussion about this until more info is in MSM or we see another arrest.

Tragic, tragic, story. What a loss that we lost these two people.

jmo

 

[stmarysmead]

For me, when a crime exceeds a certain level of cruelty...when those involved can allow torture or be knowledgeable of suffering and yet let it continue...then how and why become less important to me, except for curiosity. There’s no mitigation for these killers in sad backgrounds or the fact they didn’t feel as loved or whatever.

This poor woman lay suffering beside her dead husband till morning. Whether that was known or not, the killers watched a movie and went to bed.

The capacity to have knowledge of a terrifying kidnapping, a murder, the fact that REAL people who you knew or who loved you were lying in their underwear...or pajamas in the mud and cold....and spend your energies composing alibis...easily distracting yourself...thinking only of yourself...says to me that there is something in these humans that is unfixable...and inexcusable.

How they got that way is not as important as the fact that they ARE that way. The core part of all of us that makes us human...the ability to feel and empathize beyond ourselves...does not exist in them anymore.

This was not a crime of passion...it was a crime that was planned and organized. At every step was the ability to step back and think of these victims as fellow human beings, to think of the fear and pain and suffering they would endure! But there was none of that. Ego and greed, yes. Compassion...they had none.

 

[Inthedetails]

For me, when a crime exceeds a certain level of cruelty...when those involved can allow torture or be knowledgeable of suffering and yet let it continue...then how and why become less important to me, except for curiosity. There’s no mitigation for these killers in sad backgrounds or the fact they didn’t feel as loved or whatever.

This poor woman lay suffering beside her dead husband till morning. Whether that was known or not, the killers watched a movie and went to bed.

The capacity to have knowledge of a terrifying kidnapping, a murder, the fact that REAL people who you knew or who loved you were lying in their underwear...or pajamas in the mud and cold....and spend your energies composing alibis...easily distracting yourself...thinking only of yourself...says to me that there is something in these humans that is unfixable...and inexcusable.

How they got that way is not as important as the fact that they ARE that way. The core part of all of us that makes us human...the ability to feel and empathize beyond ourselves...does not exist in them anymore.

This was not a crime of passion...it was a crime that was planned and organized. At every step was the ability to step back and think of these victims as fellow human beings, to think of the fear and pain and suffering they would endure! But there was none of that. Ego and greed, yes. Compassion...they had none.

I think we all agree that the crime was horrific and absolutely inexcusable.

But, some of us are interested in how this came to be - wanting to know background, etc. as a way to understand the crime, not to excuse it.

That's actually the part of crimes that interest me the most - figuring out the dynamics, motivations, personalities, human behavior, etc. That in no way means I think crimes are excusable.

This particular crime is ripe for delving into family dynamics and I hope we will eventually be able to explore that - with the understanding that nobody here thinks the crime is excusable.

jmopinion

 

[stmarysmead]

I know they were not kicked out onto the streets, penniless. But even so, adopted kids often have extreme sensitivity to feeling rejected, and being asked to leave the family home and move to an air BnB, even if it was being paid for by mom, it would be felt like it was an emotional rejection of some kind. JMO IMO

I am NOT defending the murders, obviously. Just trying to understand what set things off.

Eighteen is old enough to vote. The assumption is that one possesses the ability to process information and make appropriate decisions.

We are all living thru a unprecedented pandemic. This woman had an underlying condition. This woman was a Dr. Dad was self isolating. These are reasonable explanations for asking to follow rules that apply now to all of us.

When they refused, they were provided with their own apartment, paid for by the victims. That’s generosity.

But none of this could be processed by those killers?

I think we all agree that the crime was horrific and absolutely inexcusable.

But, some of us are interested in how this came to be - wanting to know background, etc. as a way to understand the crime, not to excuse it.

That's actually the part of crimes that interest me the most - figuring out the dynamics, motivations, personalities, human behavior, etc. That in no way means I think crimes are excusable.

This particular crime is ripe for delving into family dynamics and I hope we will eventually be able to explore that - with the understanding that nobody here thinks the crime is excusable.

jmopinion

I agree with your post and meant no criticism of efforts to have a broader understanding on a board like this. My point is more in how to deal with these people in regard to punishment for these crimes. I’m weary of the expert witnesses who try to invoke empathy toward killers who possess no empathy for anyone else.

 

[Inthedetails]

I agree with your post and meant no criticism of efforts to have a broader understanding on a board like this. My point is more in how to deal with these people in regard to punishment for these crimes. I’m weary of the expert witnesses who try to invoke empathy toward killers who possess no empathy for anyone else.

Snipped.

I hear ya. The punishment part of following crimes generally holds little interest to me, which doesn't mean I don't think criminals shouldn't be punished and removed from society. It's just not a topic that pulls me in.

Different people are interested in different aspects of crime.

It gets tedious to defend a desire to understand criminals - to have to explain that does not mean excusing.

I really hope we can avoid those tedious exchanges and understand that WSers all have different interests they want to discuss.

Not aimed at you personally.

jmo

 

[kay74]

A 14 year old or anyone any age for that matter would know better than to do this horrible crime. 18 is not a teenager. You can join the military at 18. It's the upbringing. He was a foster child. Only an animal would do this. He's a screwed up human being. Seeing his picture on facebook with a gun is enough to scare anybody. Guns are killing machines.

 

[Wild Rose]

bbm
Ita.
The bolded might give a clue as to some motive.
Also --did the daughter and bf go on a spending spree with her parent's credit cards after the murders ?
It's possible the daughter was told 'there will be no more free rides, you need to earn your money' ..or something like that.

Gold name chains. My kids couldn't afford, me either most weeks.

 

[stmarysmead]

Gold name chains. My kids couldn't afford, me either most weeks.

Snipped.

I hear ya. The punishment part of following crimes generally holds little interest to me, which doesn't mean I don't think criminals shouldn't be punished and removed from society. It's just not a topic that pulls me in.

Different people are interested in different aspects of crime.

It gets tedious to defend a desire to understand criminals - to have to explain that does not mean excusing.

I really hope we can avoid those tedious exchanges and understand that WSers all have different interests they want to discuss.

Not aimed at you personally.

jmo

I understand your point. But tedious as it might seem, a discussion board is just that. I think I we can respectfully look at what might have motivated these killers...and that is very interesting to me as well. But as part of the discussion, we should be able to debate whether that particular “reason” works in this particular “case.”

To date, its true that we know little of the family dynamics. But asking two 18 year olds that are living in your home...one by gracious invitation only...to follow rules during a pandemic that if NOT followed, definitely can seriously endanger your life...is no rejection.

What was the punishment for not following? Paying for them to live at the Mom’s expense in their own apartment. And providing a car...that they would then be kidnapped and driven to their deaths in.

I believe there is value in trying to understand the victims as well as the killers. I’m just trying to imagine from the victims perspective, what else could they have done as parents to be more supportive and loving?

 

[MimosaMornings]

Bethandrobin’s website now requires a password?

 

[fred&edna]

Has LE located the gun used in the murders?

 

[fred&edna]

Bethandrobin’s website now requires a password?

Hmmm... it appears so. Maybe for privacy reasons?

 

[cluciano63]

I can’t find it in me to care who was adopted...this is horrific and inexcusable on every level.

 

[Inthedetails]

I can’t find it in me to care who was adopted...this is horrific and inexcusable on every level.

Yes, It's inexcusable.

<modsnip>
jmo

 

[Lusitana]

He may actually not be a gang member. He could be a poser.
They did it for the money. Not the first case and not the last. It's disgusting.