WI WI - Evelyn Hartley, 15, La Crosse, 24 Oct 1953

[Startover]

My 1 cent on this missing case...the perpatrator went through the basement window....went up the stairs and suprized Hartley...she tried to fight back but at 5 ft 2 120 pounds...she was outmatched,,,the perpatrator took her trhough the window..she had time to cry out for help....but she received a mortal wound that caused her to bleed out.. I think in one spot there was found a very large circle of blood...enough to remder her dying...he placed her in his car..throwing out her bloody clothing .....Who do I suspect? Ed Gein...for several reasons...the fact that the perpatrator took the dead girl body with him....Geins MO of taking a victium dead bodys and leaving few clues except bloodstains {Mary Hogan and Mrs Warden] after he'd killed them...in his house was found the remains of vulvas of two young girls ...[showing that Gein did not confine his crimes to middle aged women (Weckler was 9 and Hartley was 14)...the evidence that he wasnt in La Crosse was a lie dectector test...lastly acording to a Life magazine story after Gein arrest...after Mary Hogan disappearence Gein made a odd remark to a neighbor that she wasnt missing ..she was at his house..and after Hartley vanisehment that Gein made a similar remark about Hartlety mystery... LAStly except for Mrs Warden body; Mary Hogan skull and various other body parts...Gein cremated his victiums body he stolen and.or killed..the largest piece was 3 Inches long...lasltly the remians were not cremated but reburied...apparetly some of the victiums were Apparently Roman Catholic

 

[Timmy78]

My 1 cent on this missing case...the perpatrator went through the basement window....went up the stairs and suprized Hartley...she tried to fight back but at 5 ft 2 120 pounds...she was outmatched,,,the perpatrator took her trhough the window..she had time to cry out for help....but she received a mortal wound that caused her to bleed out.. I think in one spot there was found a very large circle of blood...enough to remder her dying...he placed her in his car..throwing out her bloody clothing .....Who do I suspect? Ed Gein...for several reasons...the fact that the perpatrator took the dead girl body with him....Geins MO of taking a victium dead bodys and leaving few clues except bloodstains {Mary Hogan and Mrs Warden] after he'd killed them...in his house was found the remains of vulvas of two young girls ...[showing that Gein did not confine his crimes to middle aged women (Weckler was 9 and Hartley was 14)...the evidence that he wasnt in La Crosse was a lie dectector test...lastly acording to a Life magazine story after Gein arrest...after Mary Hogan disappearence Gein made a odd remark to a neighbor that she wasnt missing ..she was at his house..and after Hartley vanisehment that Gein made a similar remark about Hartlety mystery... LAStly except for Mrs Warden body; Mary Hogan skull and various other body parts...Gein cremated his victiums body he stolen and.or killed..the largest piece was 3 Inches long...lasltly the remians were not cremated but reburied...apparetly some of the victiums were Apparently Roman Catholic

UGH! You Gein fanboys need to go to Gein's page. There is no evidence whatsoever that Gein had anything to do with this. It wasn't just the lie detector, but investigations & eyewitness accounts that said Gein wasn't in Lacrosse at the time. Alot of what you said isn't even true, it came out of the judges book in which he made many false claims contradicting what police said. They also checked every body part & clothing they found checking for Evelyn because that was still a huge case at the time. The Weckler girl being a Gein victim is even more far fetched. Neither area is close to Plainfield, & as much as you guys want Gein to be some statewide, maniacal serial killer, that's not who he was.

 

[Quoththeraven]

UGH! You Gein fanboys need to go to Gein's page. There is no evidence whatsoever that Gein had anything to do with this. It wasn't just the lie detector, but investigations & eyewitness accounts that said Gein wasn't in Lacrosse at the time. Alot of what you said isn't even true, it came out of the judges book in which he made many false claims contradicting what police said. They also checked every body part & clothing they found checking for Evelyn because that was still a huge case at the time. The Weckler girl being a Gein victim is even more far fetched. Neither area is close to Plainfield, & as much as you guys want Gein to be some statewide, maniacal serial killer, that's not who he was.

I didn't know WS's had an Ed Gein page. Since we're on the subject, were you aware that Ed Gein had briefly escaped from the Mendota Mental Health Institute sometime prior to 1980? He was in the unfenced geriatric unit at the time. According to a friend of mine, who used to be a CNA there and had actually worked with Ed Gein, who was senile at the time, she stated that the story goes that while in that facility, he approached another female resident and they decided to take a walk down the road to the Cosmos Club. When they got there, the bartender kind of had the suspicion that those two were patients at Mendota and called there to see if they were missing anybody. It turns out they were. They were then returned to the facility. I don't know if the incident ever made it to the newspapers, but, it still was a genuine 'prison break' by Ed Gein.

 

[ventport]

>>"after Mary Hogan disappearence Gein made a odd remark to a neighbor that she wasnt missing ..she was at his house..and after Hartley vanisehment that Gein made a similar remark about Hartley mystery"<<
The first instance is verified, the 2nd instance is a fabrication.

 

[SimplySalad]

Just read this entire thread. Whew. I think the Ed Gein theory, though possible, is far-fetched. Not his MO, not his victim type, too far away from his home and definitely not his type of shoe.

Something I've not seen much information on is the girl Evelyn was filling in for. Could she have mentioned to the wrong person about her babysitting plans, a predator who, when he went along to the house, decided to settle on Evelyn instead. I'm a bit of a vintage fashion nerd and in the 1950s that type of All Star High-Top shoe would have been worn almost exclusively by teens/young people and it would be unusual unless at a spoting event to see anyone over say, college age wearing them. Which is why I believe the police focused so heavily on the boys at Evelyn's school.

I believe it was someone who either knew Evelyn or the girl she was filling in for. A young man - or possibly two young men, who knew there would be a girl alone in the house and planned to assault her. They broke in, with some sort of mask concealing their faces but during the stuggle Evelyn managed to reomve the masks. Now they're in trouble because she can identify them. Something makes them panic (maybe a car drives past, etc.) and fearing someone is about to arrive home they force Evelyn down to the basement and out of the window they entered in. It would be a pretty bold move to leave out of the front door, especially as these young men are already panicking. Outside Evelyn tries to make a run for it, screams and one of them loses his head and stabs her. Perhaps she's still alive and now they're in way too deep to back out, they take her and (after either passing away from her injuries or being finished off) they hide her body.

Along similar lines is the theory that two youngsters on the spur of the moment decided to rob the house, not seeing a car outside and after a quick scout through the windows not seeing Evelyn. She could have been putting the baby to sleep in a room with drawn curtains or in the toilet etc. They break in, come face to face with her, they know each other, and events unfold as I theorised above.

A mother who had repaired the discarded jacket may have kept quiet to protect her son. This is just my two cents anyway

I definitely believe it was someone who knew the ‘intended’ victim being the original babysitter that Evelyn was filling in for. This is the key and I never put two and two together about how the questioned a ton of not all the people at the school. They constantly circle this in all the news articles I found.

 

[crhedBngr]

Just rumor and speculation, perhaps. I don't think he was nearby, he lived on that farm, some distance away. Evelyn's disappearance doesn't seem to fit Ed Gein's MO. He seemed to prefer women who were much older and deceased.

Ed Gein worked solo. Two men were supposedly seen with Evelyn when she was abducted.

Ed was tied to Bernice Worden, one of his known two live victims, because he knew she would be alone in the store where she worked; her son, Frank, mentioned this to Gein.

Bernice Worden was a 58 year old women who worked at a hardware store in Plainfield. In November of 1957, Gein had a conversation with Bernice and also with her son Frank. Most people knew Ed as a shy and reserved perosn so it was rare that he ever stricked up a conversation with just anyone. Frank, Bernice's son who was a sheriff, told Gein he would be out of town on a certain Saturday because he was going hunting. Frank and Gein both knew that Bernice Worden would be alone in the hardware store.

His other victim, Mary Hogan, was also alone when she was killed by Gein.

Mary Hogan was a 51 year old woman who worked at a tavern in Pine Grove, Wisconsin. Gein had been to the tavern she worked at several times. On the December 8, 1954 Ed waited for all of her customers to leave. When he walked into the tavern Mary told him that she was closing.

(Details on the murders of the two above women are found in the link below. It's possible there are other victims who are unknown.)

Victims/ Suspects - Edward Theodore "Ed" Gein

Ed Gein Murders - Topics on Newspapers.com

 

[crhedBngr]

I didn't know WS's had an Ed Gein page. Since we're on the subject, were you aware that Ed Gein had briefly escaped from the Mendota Mental Health Institute sometime prior to 1980? He was in the unfenced geriatric unit at the time. According to a friend of mine, who used to be a CNA there and had actually worked with Ed Gein, who was senile at the time, she stated that the story goes that while in that facility, he approached another female resident and they decided to take a walk down the road to the Cosmos Club. When they got there, the bartender kind of had the suspicion that those two were patients at Mendota and called there to see if they were missing anybody. It turns out they were. They were then returned to the facility. I don't know if the incident ever made it to the newspapers, but, it still was a genuine 'prison break' by Ed Gein.

MSM Link, please?

 

[Noirdame79]

Not saying that the cases are related, but the unsolved murder of 13-year-old Janett Christman in Columbia, Missouri in 1950 has some similarities. Probably both of these cases inspired the urban legend "The Babysitter And The Man Upstairs" and several movies.

 

[ventport]

Another November 1, 1952 mystery regarding certain people missing near Ed Gein's land was the disappearance of two hunters, Ray Burgess and 43 year old Victor Bunk Travis. They were supposed to go squirrel and rabbit hunting on the farm property of Lars Thomsen, right across the road from Ed Gein's property.

To this day, authorities have NEVER searched the Lars Thomsen farm for Victor Travis.

In 1961, investigators learned that Ray Burgess wasn't the person he said he was and may have been contracted to kill Victor Travis. The new article below explains it better than I can.

As of Dec 1, 1957, the tentative total was 14 bodies/parts, not including the one found in 1960.

So what happened to all the evidence that filled a dump truck that was sent to the state crime lab? From the news article I read, sometime in the 1960's, money was requisitioned for their burial and the body parts were all dumped in a mass grave and buried. No attempt was ever made to determine who was who and to this day no attempt has been made to identify the body parts using DNA. What a sham of justice.

• Lars Thomsen's property was not across the street from Gein, it was about 5 miles away in Hancock.
• If Travis was contract-killed, and in that folk knew where Travis & Burgess were going hunting, it's highly doubtful the body would be in that location.
• known total of individuals connected to Gein's crimes is 16. Yes, it could be higher; the grave robbing is -other than the 2 opened graves- based solely on Gein's word.
• The remains at the time of burial were so deteriorated then that they were unrecognizable as being human. And with DNA-testing decades into the future, they were buried. It was not a 'sham', it was SOP.

What's difficult to wrap today's mind around is that in this time period, and especially in that rural area, there simply wasn't the money to investigate every piece of evidence and every angle. The goal was to remove the perpetrator from the street, and this they did. They never even brought the Hogan evidence into court; just did some prep work in case the Worden case fell thru.

 

[bev1228]

I've just started to read up on Evelyn's disappearance and possible murder. Never knew about this case until a few days ago and wow what a bizarre case !

Does anyone know for sure which way the story goes in terms of Did Mr. Tom Hartley drive Evelyn to the Rasmusen's home or did Mr. Viggo Rasmusen go to Evelyn's home and pick her up? I've seen both versions in the papers. Does anyone know for certain if a babysitter was a no show and Evelyn filled in? I've only seen one report so far out of about 30 articles that claim Evelyn was a back up for the night after a no show by a babysitter. Why would Mr. Hartley call Evelyn, if he had been the one to drop her off at the Rasmussen's home just two hours prior? It makes no sense to me that the kidnapper/ murderer? would struggle to take Evelyn, who is almost 5'7" to a basement and try to exit her body thru a window, proceeding to then drag her almost to a car he parked almost two blocks away and speed away with Evelyn on a Saturday night during a huge football game that many people in her neighborhood would be either attending or listening to on their radio? And if I have it right, the Rasmusens were also going to attend the game. What time did the game start? The window between Evelyn beginning to babysit venture and Dad calling and all of this takes place in less than two hours.

Is it at all possible, that the struggle starts in the living room, Evelyn herself flees to the basement (possibly to help protect the baby upstairs) and succumbs to the attack in the basement.... Attacker leaves her for dead in the basement and flees thru the basement window..... But, Evelyn comes to and she herself forces herself thru the basement window, too weak to climb the staircase. She manages to ease herself out of the basement window and drag herself for a while and then the attacker spots her and grabs her again and flees.

 

[ScreamingSkullSaloon]

I've just started to read up on Evelyn's disappearance and possible murder. Never knew about this case until a few days ago and wow what a bizarre case !

Does anyone know for sure which way the story goes in terms of Did Mr. Tom Hartley drive Evelyn to the Rasmusen's home or did Mr. Viggo Rasmusen go to Evelyn's home and pick her up? I've seen both versions in the papers. Does anyone know for certain if a babysitter was a no show and Evelyn filled in? I've only seen one report so far out of about 30 articles that claim Evelyn was a back up for the night after a no show by a babysitter. Why would Mr. Hartley call Evelyn, if he had been the one to drop her off at the Rasmussen's home just two hours prior? It makes no sense to me that the kidnapper/ murderer? would struggle to take Evelyn, who is almost 5'7" to a basement and try to exit her body thru a window, proceeding to then drag her almost to a car he parked almost two blocks away and speed away with Evelyn on a Saturday night during a huge football game that many people in her neighborhood would be either attending or listening to on their radio? And if I have it right, the Rasmusens were also going to attend the game. What time did the game start? The window between Evelyn beginning to babysit venture and Dad calling and all of this takes place in less than two hours.

Is it at all possible, that the struggle starts in the living room, Evelyn herself flees to the basement (possibly to help protect the baby upstairs) and succumbs to the attack in the basement.... Attacker leaves her for dead in the basement and flees thru the basement window..... But, Evelyn comes to and she herself forces herself thru the basement window, too weak to climb the staircase. She manages to ease herself out of the basement window and drag herself for a while and then the attacker spots her and grabs her again and flees.

Hello, this is my first post here on Websleuths. I have been researching the Evelyn Hartley case for several years now and want to do everything I can to help solve this case. I would like to answer some of your questions. Tom Hartley was actually Evelyn's brother. Richard was her Father. Evelyn was picked up by Mr. Viggo Rasmussen that night from her home at 1533 Johnson Street and brought to his residence at 2415 Hoeschler Drive. The original Babysitter Janice Cowley was unavailiable to babysit that night due to the fact that she would also be attending the College Homecoming Football game and had informed the Rasmussen's of this several days prior. The Rasmussen's then asked Richard Hartley if Evelyn would be available to do so. Evelyn agreed but then later told her parents that she did not want too and Evelyn's Mother Ethel told her that she had committed to babysit already and that she must do so.
The reason for Richard Hartley calling the Rasmussen home to check on Evelyn is that whenever she would babysit her parents made it a habit to call around 8:30pm to check in on her.
As far as whether or not Evelyn was taken through the Southwest Basement window or through the front door (with self-locking door lock) we may never know.
I continue to study this case and hope to someday help solve this case. There are a few other missing people's cases that I work on but this case is the one that I have dedicated the most time and energy on.

 

[PGHJW]

Was the 1969 "confession" audio ever released? I've seen a fairly terrible transcript that really doesn't amount to much.

 

[Quoththeraven]

Was the 1969 "confession" audio ever released? I've seen a fairly terrible transcript that really doesn't amount to much.

Some locations and names were eliminated from this transcript at the request of La Crosse police.

Whitey Barclay : That's about the time. about the time you hauled that Hartley girl down there (unintelligible) [owner of house deleted] That right?
Clyde Tywee Peterson : . I's up on that deal.
Whitey Barclay: Huh?
Clyde Tywee Peterson: I's up on that deal.
Whitey Barclay: You was up or down? What everything else [location deleted].
{Unintelligible}
Clyde Tywee Peterson: Up, up, up.
Whitey Barclay : What do you mean, up? ---(deleted)---- why not? Why not?
Clyde Tywee Peterson: .. dig up graves and everything else [location deleted].
Whitey Barclay: but the thing is, you hauled her from La Crosse down to --( house location deleted)----and back to La Crosse. huh?
Clyde Tywee Peterson: no.
Whitey Barclay: You didn't haul her back every time?
Clyde Tywee Peterson: no.
Whitey Barclay: You did haul her up there, though?
Clyde Tywee Peterson: .. no witness.. no proof. they haven't found her, have they?
Whitey Barclay: I don't give a sh-- (deleted)----about proof.
Unidentified Woman #1: What girl?
Whitey Barclay: The Hartley girl.
Unidentified Woman #1: What Hartley girl?
Whitey Barclay: Yeah, well this is the Hartley girl that disappeared in La Crosse, and he hauled her to---( location deleted)---and she disappeared.
Whitey Barclay: He {unintelligible}. You know damn right he all done it and I know it, and he told me with his own mouth.
Unidentified Woman: From La Crosse?
Whitey Barclay: Yeah. That's the girl they never did solve the mystery on, see.
Whitey Barclay : I'll tell you another thing that's ridiculous, (unintelligible) won''t tell him, Jack Gaulthair he went crazy and shot himself.
Whitey Barclay : Yeah. yeah
Whitey Barclay: He knows about it, too. ---( name deleted)---- knows about it, and you know ---(deleted)---- is scared to death of his kids because he's afraid he's goin' to kill {unintelligible}, and I think ---( deleted)---- knows about it, too.
Whitey Barclay: I'll be damned.
Whitey Barclay: I think, I think she's buried down there, too. and old --( deleted)----is just scared of his kids! ---( name deleted)---- was the biggest man there was. why is he scared of his kids?..... cause he knew where she's buried, didn't he? You think I'm right or wrong? I. I can read between the lines Tywee.. and. and shut it off, shut it off. ~End of transcript~

Three interesting points; Clyde admitted 3 times to being involved. Barclay alluded to the fact that Peterson transported Hartley to and from La Crosse to a residence in La Farge. Peterson didn't say dig up grave, he said dig up graves. Plural. Who would those other graves be? I have a good idea of who they might be and they're all from the same family of one of the suspects.

We have an eye witness, Ed Hoefer, (Mr. X) who saw two men and a girl near a garage by the Rasmusen home and then again when his vehicle almost collided with theirs head on leaving from near the scene of the kidnapping, two blocks down from the Rasmusen house.

We also have a similar case that happened in 1951 involving two of the suspects named in the tape. In the first incident, it was Gaulthair and Driscoll. Both also dragged the (likely extremely drunk) victim, one pushing and one pulling, probably the same scenario at the Rasmusen home. One on the outside of the window pulling and one on the inside pushing a terrified girl up through the basement window. Though, from the tape it appears Peterson and Gaulthair were involved in the actual Hartley kidnapping and took her to possibly Driscoll's house. Driscoll was the one with the deformed face received from a farmer's wife who beat him with a rake.

 

[ScreamingSkullSaloon]

Was the 1969 "confession" audio ever released? I've seen a fairly terrible transcript that really doesn't amount to much.

No it hasn't unfortunately. Only the redacted transcript.

 

[Betty P]

No it hasn't unfortunately. Only the redacted transcript.

I recall reading this several years ago on someone's blog or personal web site. IIRC it came from a recording of a suspect who hung out at a local bar and occasionally talked about the crime when he was in his cups. Is that the one?

If so, it does sound like he occasionally said things about the crime that the public didn't know.

 

[ScreamingSkullSaloon]

I recall reading this several years ago on someone's blog or personal web site. IIRC it came from a recording of a suspect who hung out at a local bar and occasionally talked about the crime when he was in his cups. Is that the one?

If so, it does sound like he occasionally said things about the crime that the public didn't know.

Yes it was recording by the Tavern owner Mel Williams. The two men on the tape recording were Clyde "Tywee" Peterson and Whitey Barclay. In the recording Peterson states that he helped take Evelyn to someone's residence (Name and House have been redacted) and also admits to digging up grave(s). They also mention Frank "Jack" Gaulthair as being the person to have killed Evelyn. Jack was friend's with an individual by the name of Marion Driscoll and both were adjudged guilty of contributing to the delinquency of a minor by the first name Donna in 1951 who at that time was approximately the same age as Evelyn when she was abducted. Some believe that the redacted person and location could possibly be Marion Driscoll and his farm and that Evelyn was buried under the floor of an old tobacco shed there in La Farge Wisconsin.

Do I believe this to be the case? It very well could be but there are so many other potential leads as well.

 

[Quoththeraven]

Yes it was recording by the Tavern owner Mel Williams. The two men on the tape recording were Clyde "Tywee" Peterson and Whitey Barclay. In the recording Peterson states that he helped take Evelyn to someone's residence (Name and House have been redacted) and also admits to digging up grave(s). They also mention Frank "Jack" Gaulthair as being the person to have killed Evelyn. Jack was friend's with an individual by the name of Marion Driscoll and both were adjudged guilty of contributing to the delinquency of a minor by the first name Donna in 1951 who at that time was approximately the same age as Evelyn when she was abducted. Some believe that the redacted person and location could possibly be Marion Driscoll and his farm and that Evelyn was buried under the floor of an old tobacco shed there in La Farge Wisconsin.

Do I believe this to be the case? It very well could be but there are so many other potential leads as well.

Frank "Jack" Gaulthair later committed suicide Christmas Day, 1967. That, of course, was mentioned in the tape.

 

[mommeof2]

I just listened to this case. It would be nice for police to finally solve it. Sad that her parents are deceased and never knew what happened.

 

[Ciriii57]

I haven't read the whole thread yet so this has probably already been answered but there seems alot of uncertainty as to why they left, with Evelyn, through the basement window, which was quite a difficult task. Maybe I am stating the obvious but presumably they had no other option since every other door and window was locked? Presumably at this time the door would have been one of the ones that needed to be physically locked and unlocked everytime, not self-locking but can be opened from the inside (which I think are more recent). If Evelyn had locked the front door and then, say, placed the keys in a bowl on the side or hung them on a hook, then the intruders would not have known where they were or which key was which and wouldn't have had time to search. The basement window was the only way in and out they knew of.

I am inclined to believe that this was a burglary gone horribly wrong. They may have seen the owners leave and assumed the place to be empty. There was clearly a struggle in the living room and perhaps they dragged her into the basement out of sight hoping to leave her there, but alive. Once there she probably started screaming and in the heat of the moment she was injured by one of the assailants. At this point panic probably set it, and they reaslised that Evelyn could identify them (especially if she already knew them), leaving them no option but to dispose of her. JMO

 

[PGHJW]

I'd love to know where the transcript of the recording actually came from. I know where to find it, I've read it. It just doesn't make a whole lot of sense, even looking past the redactions.

Came across a podcast called Casefile. Episode 224 is the Hartley case. I only listened to the portion regarding the recording. Bits and pieces of info that I'd never read anywhere, but nothing groundbreaking. The most interesting is that an author visited Dorien "Whitey" Barclay, the man questioning "Tywee" in the recording, at the assisted living home. Barclay was said to have been fairly far gone at that point but acted oddly at the mention of the name Evelyn Hartley. Barclay died in 2007 and his obituary is still online. He may not have participated in the event, but he's certainly guilty of not disclosing info back then...