WI WI - Evelyn Hartley, 15, La Crosse, 24 Oct 1953

[TracyLynnS]

I just started watching the youtube videos linked on page 8 or 9. I have a couple questions so far.

In the first video, they show the official police photo of the step ladder in the basement placed under the open window. This is supposed to be the entry point for the perp(s) and the exit which Evelyn was taken out of the house.

But supposedly, she was already injured and bleeding at this time during the abduction, but there is no blood at all on the basement wall under the window. If someone is dragging her through the house and pulling her through that basement window, leaving a pool of blood on the ground nearby, why is there no blood at all on the basement wall, around the window inside, etc.

And wouldn't she be resisting, clawing, whatever during this abduction, but the window is neatly open upward on the hinge, glass not broken. This looks like an entry point to me, and one or more men didn't drag a young woman through that window to get her out of the house.

Maybe they took her out the back door and that's why there's a pool of blood on the ground near that basement window?

Also, both Evelyn's father and the man she was babysitting for were professors at the college.

I know 1700 local males at the high school, college, and town were polygraphed and passed. But they didn't polygraph everyone and we all know they're not foolproof. Is it possible that Professor Rasmussen was talking to his students at the college or other men in town about how his family planned to go to the homecoming game and innocently commented that Professor Hartley's daughter would be babysitting for him?

Such a statement or conversation would let the perp know (if he was a student, fellow teacher, college employee, or even a local guy at the town diner) when and where Evelyn would be, how long she would be alone, etc.

I wonder if he told anyone about his plans. My first thought was a college student, because they could possibly also know Evelyn and/or her father, and target her.

It was mentioned earlier that Evelyn was filling in for a different babysitter who backed out. Who was she and how many days/hours in advance did they know Evelyn would be replacing her?

ETA: according to video #2, the basement window well that had a large pool of blood in it was around the corner at a neighbor's house. There was a pool of blood and human hair in the back yard of the Rasmussen home, from where Evelyn was abducted. A trail of blood from that house led to the house where they found the blood in the window well. That's the evidence Evelyn's mother saw when said she knew her daughter couldn't have survived her wounds.

 

[STANDREID]

In an effort to a) address the question of the size 16 pants and b) bump this up:

http://shop.nordstrom.com/s/hudson-.../3574940?origin=sizechart&tn=Sizeandfit_popup

Evelyn was 15. She probably could still wear girls' pants (I wore size 12 and 14 girls' pants until I was 23!). As we can see from the Nordstrom link, there are still girls' pants in size 16.

That makes some sense except Evelyn was 5-7 and girls sizes are for young ladies under 5-3 I believe. Maybe her mom gave the size and confused the number with what she had worn a year or two ago. Five foot seven would be above normal even for a woman. I wonder if girls sizes have undergone the same vanity sizing changes since 1953 that women's sizes have.

 

[my_tee_mouse]

That makes some sense except Evelyn was 5-7 and girls sizes are for young ladies under 5-3 I believe. Maybe her mom gave the size and confused the number with what she had worn a year or two ago. Five foot seven would be above normal even for a woman. I wonder if girls sizes have undergone the same vanity sizing changes since 1953 that women's sizes have.

Possible. I remember in 1970 I wore a size 3 dress "off the rack," but when I had to sew a dress in Home Ec, the pattern which was based on my measurements was a size 12. Could the size 16 pants have been sewn for her by her mom? Or maybe there were "tall big girl" sizes back then?

 

[TracyLynnS]

I'm almost done reading the thread. On page 21 of 25 so far. Watched all the vids on youtube. Some of my questions were answered.

October 24, 1953 was a Saturday. Mr. Rasmussen could have still told someone he was going to the game and getting a babysitter, so a bad guy would have advanced knowledge, but according to posts here, Evelyn was a last minute replacement THAT DAY. I don't know how many hours ahead of the babysitting job she knew she would be filling in, but apparently it was sometime that day.

Posts here have conflicting info on whether or not there was blood in the house. Some say drops of blood some say no blood. I assume people are getting their info from newspaper reports that are inaccurate. That messes up my idea about why there is no blood around the basement window. If she was not heavily injured inside the house, no blood would likely be on the basement wall and around the window if that is the way she exited the house.

The youtube video reporter says that 300 local school boys were polygraphed until the school district put a stop to it. Other posts here say 1700 males from the high school, college, and local area were polygraphed. And still other posts say it was 2000 or more ppl. Maybe those were volunteers? Or the numbers are somehow wrong. You know how goofed up newspaper articles can be.

 

[Claudette]

There was most definitely blood in the house and outside of the house, including a hand print on a neighbors garage. I don't recall any sources saying that there weren't, no that there aren't any.

 

[mommylicious]

Did anything ever come of the recorded confession?

 

[flourish]

IIRC, there was some discussion here a while back about whether the substance on the living room carpet was blood or mud. It's possible that discussion stemmed from some black and white newspaper photos?

I don't recall any articles stating it wasn't blood, just talk here, but it's been a while, so I could totally be wrong.

Sent from my Event using Tapatalk 2

 

[joellegirl]

60 years today.
And no mention in the LaCrosse Tribune...I thought they would do a story with it being the 60th anniversary.

 

[Claudette]

Just recording this for future readers and discussion, right now it is 6:30pm CST, half an hour before she would go missing (according to the neigbor who heard screams at this time) - it is pitch black out and started getting dark around 5 or 5:30. Leaves are still on the tree, the trees are never completely bare this time of year, but they will be in a few weeks at the most.

 

[kline]

60 years today.
And no mention in the LaCrosse Tribune...I thought they would do a story with it being the 60th anniversary.

If you google 'evelyn hartley' there is a 60th aniversary story by CNN that is pretty good.
Rest in Peace Evelyn.

 

[Veidt]

This case always makes me sad I hope anyone of her family who is still alive gets some closure. May she rest in peace.

 

[Samuke]

Alright, so I managed to make it to page 11 before deciding to comment on this long-going thread, so forgive me if anything I mention was thought of or mentioned in the intervening pages.

1) With regards to the basement window, and marks on other windows. While the question of them going back out the window is still reasonable, the point of the ladder being in the basement certainly explains how they probably got in through it. It was mentioned the ladder was in the basement because they had been painting. If they were painting, there would have been fumes, which most certainly would not have been acceptable in a house with a baby. The reasonable assumption would be that they left a window open to vent the fumes.

2) From what I've read marks were found on windows on neighboring houses. By page 11 people were wondering about why there would be, especially on ones blood was found on. The interpretations I've read in various articles were that the perpetrator(s) had attempted to break into neighboring houses first. As mentioned, the house she was in had a BIG picture window for the living room, which faces the back of the house. I think it's possible the perp(s) were trying to break into houses, perhaps for burglary, perhaps for general mischief, and happened to see Evelyn through the window. They tried to break into a window or so (based on the marks), but then happened upon the open window I suggested above. All they needed to do was pry off the screen (found in the yard) to get in.

3) Somebody mentioned this earlier, but head wounds cause a significant amount of bleeding. I know for sure because I got a tiny cut on my head once and there was just blood everywhere. Has it been suggested that she perhaps got a broken nose during the encounter, though? At one point blood was found halfway up a wall, a head wound or a broken nose (especially if she were running away and/or smashed into a wall) would explain blood at that height. Broken noses bleed horrendously, and even spray everywhere, and are definitely easy to get in an encounter.

Anyway, just some thoughts since we recently passed the anniversary again.

An aside regarding her clothing size. Clothing sizes were modified in the 80s for women's clothing. Prior to that they were more realistic. There's a whole myth about Marilyn Monroe being a size 12-16. A size 16 in the 50s is something like a size 8 now. Here's an article about that myth that talks about clothing sizes: http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2012/04/marilyn-monroe-was-not-even-close-to-a-size-12-16/

 

[Marilynilpa]

Alright, so I managed to make it to page 11 before deciding to comment on this long-going thread, so forgive me if anything I mention was thought of or mentioned in the intervening pages.

1) With regards to the basement window, and marks on other windows. While the question of them going back out the window is still reasonable, the point of the ladder being in the basement certainly explains how they probably got in through it. It was mentioned the ladder was in the basement because they had been painting. If they were painting, there would have been fumes, which most certainly would not have been acceptable in a house with a baby. The reasonable assumption would be that they left a window open to vent the fumes.

2) From what I've read marks were found on windows on neighboring houses. By page 11 people were wondering about why there would be, especially on ones blood was found on. The interpretations I've read in various articles were that the perpetrator(s) had attempted to break into neighboring houses first. As mentioned, the house she was in had a BIG picture window for the living room, which faces the back of the house. I think it's possible the perp(s) were trying to break into houses, perhaps for burglary, perhaps for general mischief, and happened to see Evelyn through the window. They tried to break into a window or so (based on the marks), but then happened upon the open window I suggested above. All they needed to do was pry off the screen (found in the yard) to get in.

3) Somebody mentioned this earlier, but head wounds cause a significant amount of bleeding. I know for sure because I got a tiny cut on my head once and there was just blood everywhere. Has it been suggested that she perhaps got a broken nose during the encounter, though? At one point blood was found halfway up a wall, a head wound or a broken nose (especially if she were running away and/or smashed into a wall) would explain blood at that height. Broken noses bleed horrendously, and even spray everywhere, and are definitely easy to get in an encounter.

Anyway, just some thoughts since we recently passed the anniversary again.

An aside regarding her clothing size. Clothing sizes were modified in the 80s for women's clothing. Prior to that they were more realistic. There's a whole myth about Marilyn Monroe being a size 12-16. A size 16 in the 50s is something like a size 8 now. Here's an article about that myth that talks about clothing sizes: http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2012/04/marilyn-monroe-was-not-even-close-to-a-size-12-16/

Very nice post!

Regarding a broken nose, I agree with you that this is a very good explanation for the presence of blood.

I also think it's reasonable that the perps were looking for a house to break into, perhaps they had even seen the family leave and weren't aware Evelyn was babysitting the infant.

 

[STANDREID]

Yes, the anniversary of the crime has just passed and Evelyn's 76th birthday is coming up in about 3 weeks. She disappeared exactly 4 weeks before her 16th birthday.

 

[joesmom1]

FYI
The last remaining original investigator from the LaCrosse Police Department in dealing with this case has passed away. His name was Willard Sill and he was 101 years old. He interviewed Ed Gein in regards to this case and said that Gein's home smelled of death.

 

[KAE]

FYI
The last remaining original investigator from the LaCrosse Police Department in dealing with this case has passed away. His name was Willard Sill and he was 101 years old. He interviewed Ed Gein in regards to this case and said that Gein's home smelled of death.

RIP Detective Sill.

I want back and watched the videos posted earlier in this thread after reading this and noticed something I missed the first time. At about 5:55 in this video, retired police officer Don Schoenfeld, says:

At the time we had reports from down south, the Goose Island area, heard screaming in that area."

Evelyn Hartley Chapter 2.mov - YouTube

I don't remember if this was ever discussed here. I searched the thread for "Goose Island" but didn't get anything.
Anybody remember seeing any references to this in the old newspaper archives? Was this talked about in the book?
From Google Maps, Goose Island seems like It's a county park and campground. Was it the same back in 1953?

 

[STANDREID]

That's interesting. I don't know anything about Goose Island but I see that it's only a couple of miles south of the La Crosse city limits and connected to the mainland by a bridge and causeway. Maybe there's some connection but I don't imagine that screams are all that unusual there on October Saturday nights.

 

[dogperson]

Alright, so I managed to make it to page 11 before deciding to comment on this long-going thread, so forgive me if anything I mention was thought of or mentioned in the intervening pages.

1) With regards to the basement window, and marks on other windows. While the question of them going back out the window is still reasonable, the point of the ladder being in the basement certainly explains how they probably got in through it. It was mentioned the ladder was in the basement because they had been painting. If they were painting, there would have been fumes, which most certainly would not have been acceptable in a house with a baby. The reasonable assumption would be that they left a window open to vent the fumes.

2) From what I've read marks were found on windows on neighboring houses. By page 11 people were wondering about why there would be, especially on ones blood was found on. The interpretations I've read in various articles were that the perpetrator(s) had attempted to break into neighboring houses first. As mentioned, the house she was in had a BIG picture window for the living room, which faces the back of the house. I think it's possible the perp(s) were trying to break into houses, perhaps for burglary, perhaps for general mischief, and happened to see Evelyn through the window. They tried to break into a window or so (based on the marks), but then happened upon the open window I suggested above. All they needed to do was pry off the screen (found in the yard) to get in.

3) Somebody mentioned this earlier, but head wounds cause a significant amount of bleeding. I know for sure because I got a tiny cut on my head once and there was just blood everywhere. Has it been suggested that she perhaps got a broken nose during the encounter, though? At one point blood was found halfway up a wall, a head wound or a broken nose (especially if she were running away and/or smashed into a wall) would explain blood at that height. Broken noses bleed horrendously, and even spray everywhere, and are definitely easy to get in an encounter.

Anyway, just some thoughts since we recently passed the anniversary again.

An aside regarding her clothing size. Clothing sizes were modified in the 80s for women's clothing. Prior to that they were more realistic. There's a whole myth about Marilyn Monroe being a size 12-16. A size 16 in the 50s is something like a size 8 now. Here's an article about that myth that talks about clothing sizes: http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2012/04/marilyn-monroe-was-not-even-close-to-a-size-12-16/

You make a lot of great points! I think whoever took Evelyn was probably the very same ones who tried to break into other houses, and I don't think they came there specifically to get Evelyn or to abduct anyone. I think they were burglars. Maybe they didn't know she was in the house and she caught them and they decided to take her so she couldn't talk. Or maybe they took her for a sexual purpose once they realized a young lady was in the house. But I don't think they came there to abduct Evelyn or anyone else.
Head wounds will certainly bleed a great deal as do nose bleeds. Maybe she started screaming and a burglar slapped her across the face or smashed his hand over her face to get her to be quiet. I used to suffer from nose bleeds and you can lose what looks like a lot of blood; mine used to saturate several tissues, so if she was wiping at her face and maybe stumbling against the wall, this would have smeared the blood around. Or if she had a head wound she may have been dizzy or disoriented and bumping into the wall smearing blood.
I think this was a burglary gone horribly wrong and that the perpetrators probably placed her somewhere in the general area or in a body of water. Sadly, the perpetrators are very likely to be deceased by now.

 

[amber1]

You make a lot of great points! I think whoever took Evelyn was probably the very same ones who tried to break into other houses, and I don't think they came there specifically to get Evelyn or to abduct anyone. I think they were burglars. Maybe they didn't know she was in the house and she caught them and they decided to take her so she couldn't talk. Or maybe they took her for a sexual purpose once they realized a young lady was in the house. But I don't think they came there to abduct Evelyn or anyone else.
Head wounds will certainly bleed a great deal as do nose bleeds. Maybe she started screaming and a burglar slapped her across the face or smashed his hand over her face to get her to be quiet. I used to suffer from nose bleeds and you can lose what looks like a lot of blood; mine used to saturate several tissues, so if she was wiping at her face and maybe stumbling against the wall, this would have smeared the blood around. Or if she had a head wound she may have been dizzy or disoriented and bumping into the wall smearing blood.
I think this was a burglary gone horribly wrong and that the perpetrators probably placed her somewhere in the general area or in a body of water. Sadly, the perpetrators are very likely to be deceased by now.

I like all of your points! I think a burglary gone wrong is also a great explanation. It def. deviates away from sexual serial killer stand point, which would make sense why other crimes similar to Evelyns around the time were in-existent around the area. I've always thought it was either someone she knew personally (or who knew her), or a burglary gone wrong. Twenty minutes away from my own home, there was a burglary gone wrong in the late 1990s. A 12 year old girl named Cally Jo Larson came home from school, only to find a robber in her home. He raped & murdered her, just because she was there & it was convenient for him with no one else home. He high-tailed to Texas from MN the next day, but eventually was caught. I'm wondering if this was the scenario that played out with Evelyn.

 

[dogperson]

I like all of your points! I think a burglary gone wrong is also a great explanation. It def. deviates away from sexual serial killer stand point, which would make sense why other crimes similar to Evelyns around the time were in-existent around the area. I've always thought it was either someone she knew personally (or who knew her), or a burglary gone wrong. Twenty minutes away from my own home, there was a burglary gone wrong in the late 1990s. A 12 year old girl named Cally Jo Larson came home from school, only to find a robber in her home. He raped & murdered her, just because she was there & it was convenient for him with no one else home. He high-tailed to Texas from MN the next day, but eventually was caught. I'm wondering if this was the scenario that played out with Evelyn.

I think you're right and it's very likely the case with Evelyn was about the same as the one in your hometown. If they broke in thinking nobody was home they wouldn't be wearing ski masks, for instance, and she would have seen their faces. She may even have known them and they decided they had to keep her from telling.