Found Alive WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *Arrest* #43

[kkdj]

Good thought but I do think that the realtor must disclose the history of the property.

I am a realtor in a different state. We have disclosure laws, as all states do, and I believe we would need to disclose something of this nature for a period of time.

 

[ilovechili]

They heard the 2 shots made outside. The 3rd shot, in the bathroom, was not heard by them.

I think this is likely as well. We also know there was a bit of time in between due to his having to get through the door with many attempts and taping. And it was inside.

 

[ilovechili]

I am a realtor in a different state. We have disclosure laws, as all states do, and I believe we would need to disclose something of this nature for a period of time.

I would suspect after a time one would not have to as you mention?

Also, can you offer as to if they rented it putting it out in nearby states as a vacation rental, would they have to disclose anything...?

 

[kkdj]

This is so true. In fact, there is an axiom in modern behavioral psychology which states " The opposite of love is not hate but indifference".

At some time in the future, probably years from now, JC may get to the place where she has indifference towards JP. If she can reach that stage, she will have healed and embraced her " new normal" which Elizabeth Smart has discussed. I believe she will do so with great support.

Ita. She's a fighter and a winner. She will get thru this and live a happy life imo. It is still raw and my heart aches for her, but I really feel she'll make it to her new normal and live well. She has a lot of support.

 

[kkdj]

I think this is likely as well. We also know there was a bit of time in between due to his having to get through the door with many attempts and taping. And it was inside.

I don't understand why he felt he had to kill Denise. She clearly was defenseless and he was masked from head to toe so she could have never described him except for height and weight. He could have tied her up, as he did Jayme and she could have just been there alive until someone found her.

 

[human]

I cannot see that the killer’s family would ever want to go to that nightmare house. I doubt if the neighbors will be holding any potluck parties with them..

I imgine someone may buy that **llhole. I cannot see any of the neighbors being happy about it though.

There is nothing attractive about it that someone with $$$ would buy it. If it was on a lake or river, that would change everything. A rich person may buy it to raze it and build something else. It is not even good hunting land as you cannot shoot a gun that close to structures.

 

[ilovechili]

I don't understand why he felt he had to kill Denise. She clearly was defenseless and he was masked from head to toe so she could have never described him except for height and weight. He could have tied her up, as he did Jayme and she could have just been there alive until someone found her.

So agree. He wanted to kill as much as kidnap. Or had some reason... Totally agree.

 

[ilovechili]

I cannot see that the killer’s family would ever want to go to that nightmare house. I doubt if the neighbors will be holding any potluck parties with them..

I imgine someone may buy that **llhole. I cannot see any of the neighbors being happy about it though.

There is nothing attractive about it that someone with $$$ would buy it. If it was on a lake or river, that would change everything. A rich person may buy it to raze it and build something else. It is not even good hunting land as you cannot shoot a gun that close to structures.

Agree. Second vacation or lake homes etc. lost a lot of value during the housing bust. Still have not entirely come back to my knowledge. This one will not go for much. Unless someone from out of state thinks it is a buy due to their prices elsewhere and that even is unlikely. Middle of nowhere. No lake. Etc., as you said.

 

[kkdj]

Agree. Second vacation or lake homes etc. lost a lot of value during the housing bust. Still have not entirely come back to my knowledge. This one will not go for much. Unless someone from out of state thinks it is a buy due to their prices elsewhere and that even is unlikely. Middle of nowhere. No lake. Etc., as you said.

But didn't people buy in this little subdivision for getaway vacation/hunting season homes?

 

[Auntie Cipation]

I would suspect after a time one would not have to as you mention?

In California I believe it's three years. Not 100% certain but that's my impression.

When I dealt with my dad's house in 2012 after his death from cancer, the realtor did ask me if he had been in the house when he died. Since the answer was no, I don't know what else beyond basic disclosure she might have recommended (such as a lower asking price perhaps?).

 

[photographer4]

So forgive me if this came up already as I’ve not had time to read every post... but I’m calling Bs on Patterson.

He parroted what the police said in the media. That he was there only about four mins. But that doesn’t explain how neighbors heard the shot that took out James and the one that broke in the door. He was there when the shots went off til a few seconds before cops arrived. That’s gotta be longer than four mins. How long did he sit outside and watch for lights to go off etc?

 

[kkdj]

So forgive me if this came up already as I’ve not had time to read every post... but I’m calling Bs on Patterson.

He parroted what the police said in the media. That he was there only about four mins. But that doesn’t explain how neighbors heard the shot that took out James and the one that broke in the door. He was there when the shots went off til a few seconds before cops arrived. That’s gotta be longer than four mins. How long did he sit outside and watch for lights to go off etc?

I too have thought he just went along with some of the things being said in the media, from LE and online groups. I don't think we have the truth yet from his confession. It just seemed so convenient.

 

[ilovechili]

In California I believe it's three years. Not 100% certain but that's my impression.

When I dealt with my dad's house in 2012 after his death from cancer, the realtor did ask me if he had been in the house when he died. Since the answer was no, I don't know what else beyond basic disclosure she might have recommended (such as a lower asking price perhaps?).

That surprises me, even from a natural death? Interesting to know.

 

[bizzle2]

Good thought but I do think that the realtor must disclose the history of the property.

If he isn't charged with a crime in Douglas County then there isn't anything to disclose.

 

[ilovechili]

So forgive me if this came up already as I’ve not had time to read every post... but I’m calling Bs on Patterson.

He parroted what the police said in the media. That he was there only about four mins. But that doesn’t explain how neighbors heard the shot that took out James and the one that broke in the door. He was there when the shots went off til a few seconds before cops arrived. That’s gotta be longer than four mins. How long did he sit outside and watch for lights to go off etc?

This is so how I feel. Everything for lack of a better term was too matchy-matchy for my taste. I do allow for the fact that they probably took hours of interviews and took the "facts" that best fit for the complaint but it was like he parroted both what LE said and what was said on some websites...

 

[SeekingJana]

I don't understand why he felt he had to kill Denise. She clearly was defenseless and he was masked from head to toe so she could have never described him except for height and weight. He could have tied her up, as he did Jayme and she could have just been there alive until someone found her.

This is a very important point!
It totally surprises me that I never thought of him possibly letting Denise live once we knew that JC had been the target.
He absolutely could have spared her life by disabling her ability to stop him or run after him carrying or dragging her beloved daughter by wounding her with a non-fatal injury to her leg as he had a knife right there, but chose not to.

It's not at all like the threat from a larger man than JP like James who likely had a weapon and probably could have disabled him if not for JP's gun. This is not a statement for or against gun control, but what I believe James would have done for his family if he'd had any chance at all.

I don't think it's inaccurate to conclude that JP was especially sadistic and cruel to the female victims with absolutely no provocation from them for such. It was what JP says he had planned, so it's what he did.

 

[ilovechili]

But didn't people buy in this little subdivision for getaway vacation/hunting season homes?

Yes but not sure how the market is with it anymore, it is "nowhere" and now it has a "stain". Also, most that truly want to be nowhere, go to nowhere, not in the middle of a "loop" of homes. If they want to be "nowhere" but close to "somewhere" there are many other options. Just not sure how much attraction it would have... But maybe to an out of state buyer...

 

[bizzle2]

So forgive me if this came up already as I’ve not had time to read every post... but I’m calling Bs on Patterson.

He parroted what the police said in the media. That he was there only about four mins. But that doesn’t explain how neighbors heard the shot that took out James and the one that broke in the door. He was there when the shots went off til a few seconds before cops arrived. That’s gotta be longer than four mins. How long did he sit outside and watch for lights to go off etc?

Between Jayme's account of the events, the 911 call, and the arrival of the police he couldn't have been in there for more than 5-6 minutes at most.

It's possible he sat outside for a bit of time. Not sure how likely that would be though. His whole plan was to do it quickly so I kind of doubt he'd want his car to be at the end of the driveway for very long and risk being spotted.

 

[Seattle1]

I don't understand why he felt he had to kill Denise. She clearly was defenseless and he was masked from head to toe so she could have never described him except for height and weight. He could have tied her up, as he did Jayme and she could have just been there alive until someone found her.

I think we also have to consider that DC's very nurturing act to attempt to protect her only child, JC, may have also fueled JP. He may detest women so much that just witnessing DC embrace her child was enough for JP to want to punish her at close range. Absolutely evil. MOO

 

[Auntie Cipation]

That surprises me, even from a natural death? Interesting to know.

On the one hand, I had the impression that at least one of the cultural groups that were moving heavily into that neighborhood were often rather superstitious about certain things (she recommended painting the front door a specific color, and also suggested that we use a certain numeral often in the asking price, because both were seen as lucky). On the other hand I also had the impression she was legally required to disclose a death on the property in the last three years. So I don't really know, legality vs. targeted marketing...

If he isn't charged with a crime in Douglas County then there isn't anything to disclose.

Hmm, good thought! But it will still be common knowledge what happened even with no criminal charges.

Also, with regard to the house being "tainted", if the buyer isn't put off by the history, it's entirely possible the neighbors will be totally fine with a new owner coming in and giving the place a new story. Especially if there is remodeling etc so that it no longer looks/feels like the place where horrible things happen. This might even apply to the Barron house as well as the Gordon house. IMO and experience.