AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #10

[Dum-Dum Sucker]

If anyone saw the start of the Wisconsin - Illinois game on t.v. on Saturday, it looked like a mini blizzard for a few minutes. The weather is making time short for this case, IMO.

Snowed on Saturday during our drive over to Wisconsin to view the leaves.

 

[not.a.muggle]

That’s from the dispatch log, right? Right after they called it a possible suicide attempt? Don’t read too much into the initial logs, the first officers on the scene are kind of freaking out too and they don’t always get it 100% right.

The sheriff essentially said the same thing today. Things change after the entire scene is looked over and evidence is reviewed.

 

[Randazzo]

I am guessing he was trying to convey a larger point that even the most mundane looking thing could be important, so don't assume and just call it in. Jmo.

That was my first thought too. But then again if I saw a half-eaten cheeseburger in a bag on my property I would think it very strange. It's normal to find trash, but partially eaten food? At least where I live, an animal would come along and get to it pretty quick. I wish the intent were clearer.

 

[2Hope4]

I see 2 possibilities of the door being kicked in.

1. The perpetrators did it. Possibly while intoxicated but either way they wanted to make their arrival known and cause fear to the occupants. Obviously not worried about being heard or attracting attention.

2. Door kicked in by Dad on arrival as somewhen he

I don't know if the door really was kicked in, or if the police knocked it open when they arrived. However, going with the theory that a perp damaged the door, if Dad went to answer the door, cracked it to see who was there, and immediately shut it because of who he saw, the perp could have feared Dad would get a gun, thus quickly had to gain access to the home before Dad could get a gun.

In my head that makes sense. Element of surprise. Waiting to break a window, find another entrance once Dad knew someone was outside would be too risky.

 

[ludakristen]

By now, the cops likely have a good indication as to if there was more than one perpetrator involved (ballistics).

As to the likelihood of one or more perpetrators in general, I think that it pretty much comes down to motive.

If this was a sexually motivated kidnapping, I would expect one. If this was a robbery attempt (doubtful), I would expect more than one.

We can only guess, but LE has evidence to work with.

I think it must be sexually motivated but I also don’t see how it was done by 1 individual. How? If he goes in the front door, which we assume is what happened, and murders Dad: is this maybe when Denise barricades herself and calls 911? And where is Jayme?

I’m a mom and I would never leave my kid like that. I can’t make those pieces fit in my head.

 

[Dum-Dum Sucker]

My theory is the shots heard by the neighbor — two of them — were from outside or near the front door as the perpetrator or perpetrators were breaking in. These may have been more audible, being outside vs inside the house, and more shots fired later inside killed Denise.

Yes, this.

 

[Habibte]

I don't know if the door really was kicked in, or if the police knocked it open when they arrived. However, going with the theory that a perp damaged the door, if Dad went to answer the door, cracked it to see who was there, and immediately shut it because of who he saw, the perp could have feared Dad would get a gun, thus quickly had to gain access to the home before Dad could get a gun.

In my head that makes sense. Element of surprise. Waiting to break a window, find another entrance once Dad knew someone was outside would be too risky.

Thanks 2Hope4, I was just thinking that in my mind at least, the element of surprise would be after everyone has gone to bed and sneak in through a door or a window... not smash through the front door.... if that's what happened...

 

[Miamama]

I think it must be sexually motivated but I also don’t see how it was done by 1 individual. How? If he goes in the front door, which we assume is what happened, and murders Dad: is this maybe when Denise barricades herself and calls 911? And where is Jayme?

I’m a mom and I would never leave my kid like that. I can’t make those pieces fit in my head.

Maternal instinct is strong, but so is survival instinct. Whichever threat is more immediate is probably the one you would follow. Like, if Jayme isn't in sight, but murdering maniac is coming right at you, you probably run in bathroom and lock the door before you even have a chance to think.

 

[MassGuy]

I posted earlier that, in my view, for law enforcement to put those cars out there as cars of interest they would have likely had to have been seen together and in close proximity to each other multiple times and on multiple cameras. While a coincidence like that can certainly occur, it is improbable.

Also, I don't think that law enforcement would risk their case by putting 2 cars out there to consider if there was a chance that 1 was unrelated to the crime (and potentially unidentifiable at all). A defense attorney would have a field day with "but what about that OTHER car?! Did you not find it?! Can you be sure it wasn't THEM?!" Yada yada yada.

IOW, I feel pretty strongly that both are involved.

JMO.

I disagree with the contention that LE wouldn’t put both out there in fear of a future defense tactic.

They have said explicitly, “these are vehicles of interest only.”

A life is on the line, a killer is on the loose, and it is their job to do everything in their power to bring Jayme home, and her family’s killer to justice.

Their concerns are too grave not to try this tactic, even if their level of confidence is not high in these vehicles being involved.

I hope they are confident though, and that these are the vehicles, or atleast one of them is.

 

[Confusion]

Sorry, but I had another thought... There may (or may not) be at least one gun/rifle/shotgun missing from the house since Dad was said to be a hunter. Is it possible that the person pounded on the door, which was more or less in the middle of the night, and Dad took his "hunting instrument" with him to tell the guy to get lost. He opened the door, showed weapon, told the guy to leave and started to shut the door. Before it was completely closed, the guy kicked it in, knocking Dad to the floor, took his weapon and shot him with it. Mom and JC had followed Dad into the room to see who was pounding, and ran into the bathroom when he was shot. This is where it gets really iffy... the guy may have shot the bathroom door so he could open it, and fatally wounded Mom with that shot. The guy's original anger is replaced by panic when he realizes that he just shot 2 people. Mom may have been calling 911 when he shot so the dispatcher didn't hear that sound, but did hear the aftermath of the shot. He may have disabled her phone (broke, removed the battery, whatever) and grabbed JC to take with him until he figured out what to do with her.

I have no idea who he would be, why he would have been pounding on the door in the first place, or where he would have taken her, but I wanted to throw out something that didn't involve JC attracting a pedophile, one of the parents gambling away all of their money and then some, or just a local junkie looking for thrills. It's still very hard to come up with anything that really makes sense. MOO

 

[Shewhoshallnotbenamed]

That just makes me feel like they really have absolutely nothing.

That’s not necessarily true. LE may just need additional substantial, and credible evidence to obtain an arrest warrent(s).

 

[EJB123456]

I don't know if the door really was kicked in, or if the police knocked it open when they arrived. However, going with the theory that a perp damaged the door, if Dad went to answer the door, cracked it to see who was there, and immediately shut it because of who he saw, the perp could have feared Dad would get a gun, thus quickly had to gain access to the home before Dad could get a gun.

In my head that makes sense. Element of surprise. Waiting to break a window, find another entrance once Dad knew someone was outside would be too risky.

I’m trying to find the interview but heard on the radio while driving - (I think HLN on XM) the person being interviewed said the door was ajar when first responder got there. They could see a body. Definitely was the opposite of indicating the police kicked in the front door. Looking for the video...Makes me wonder what the perp and Jayme’s exit point was. Not that it still couldn’t have been the front door.

ETA: This was today.

 

[ludakristen]

Maternal instinct is strong, but so is survival instinct. Whichever threat is more immediate is probably the one you would follow. Like, if Jayme isn't in sight, but murdering maniac is coming right at you, you probably run in bathroom and lock the door before you even have a chance to think.

Ok I see what you mean, and I agree.

I still struggle to see this being done by 1 person only. What if Denise grabbed a gun as he was preoccupied with getting into the house and shooting James? What if Jayme knew how to handle a gun? It’s just so risky.

 

[Dum-Dum Sucker]

I've been thinking about the comment that Jayme made online about having a twin with the same birthday and same initial "J".
Potential theory - an online groomer tells Jayme that he has the same birthdate as her and uses a name starting with J. A 13year-old could well fantasize about a twin in the sense of soulmate. A computer search would soon sort that theory out. Is just my opinion.

I assumed Jayme was referring to her best friend pictured with her.

 

[Habibte]

Daily mail interview with the neightbours

. States hears gunshot at 12.37 am (afterwards corrected by LE to 12.30 am as their clock was out of sync)
. wife asks husband if a gunshot. He says yes and a big gun too.
.12.54am 911 call from the Mums phone
.12.49 Law enforcement arrive

.Neighbours did not call the police
.Neighbours noticed that their dog was acting strangely
. Claim they did not know the Closs family well and had little interaction with them
.According to Joan (neighbour), FBI officers who interviewed her and Tom told them that there was only one word that could be made out of the 911 call from Denise's cell. That word was HELP

. LE state they have received 1300 tips and closed off 1100 of them

 

[Colorado303]

For you Daily Mail fans, apparently the neighbors who heard the gunshots have given the DM an interview.

Half the free world knows LE has asked family and witnesses not to talk to the press as it might hurt the investigation/ jeopardize Jayme’s safe return. So no one in Barron is making a peep except for these yahoos who will talk to anyone. Bet they’re getting plenty of glares when in line at the local grocery store.

 

[Myrtlesandroses]

That's cool, you'd probably be a reliable witness then. I haven't been around a lot of guns and at times I struggle to differentiate a backfire or firecracker to a shot from A gun. I wonder how many people could differentiate those sounds that aren't that familiar with guns, especially if they were half asleep with distance between houses with windows shut bc it was cold out? Validity/reliability of the statement would depend on individual.
The YouTube videos, to me, were interesting because it opened the doors to the varying sounds engines/backfires can make and some of them are LOUD and IMO could sound like a gun shot under certain circumstances. JMHO.​

This brings up an interesting question-- how familiar with firearms were the neighbors? Many of us have been operating under the assumption the gun had to be big based on their statement, because we assumed the neighbors know firearms. But if they dont-- what if what sounded BIG, was just close and they didn't know any better? JMO and a thought to ponder.

 

[human]

Thank you. <modsnip - rude>. Thank you for explaining instead. Jayme is the focus. Drugs shouldn’t even be a factor at this point anyways. We don’t even have a subject in site, let alone if they’re into drugs. Let’s move past the drug scenario

If one reads the arrests in the area, there are big drug issues as well as child sex issues. A neighbor 1/2 mile away was arrested on drug charges and probation violation.

Did this neighbor have unsavory visitors ?

 

[human]

I'm glad you finally signed up Yellowcat11.

Respectfully, if you are responding to my post I did not stereotype or put one addiction above another.

I simply stated that there are telltale signs often associated with the substance that one is addicted to that differ from one another. And those signs are often distinguishable. No better, no worse, just different.

That said, welcome to Websleuths and glad you finally signed up!

I will not be addressing the topic again as it seems to be not relevant.

I think it is highly relevant if you look at the criminal issues in the area

 

[SarahThePrincess]

Interesting theory but unfortunately there is absolutely no evidence or even any indication that this might have been what happened. Might be a good script for a movie, though.

Well that’s generous of you!! Thank you!

What about a boy from the reservation?