AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #14

[Cardinal47]

Ok something that bothers me. The pictures of the auto's LE is looking for. Is the originality from photo's le might have gathered from video or are they from witness statements?

Witness statements 'it was sporty, low and red' could be anything but a video picture would seem they would have an exact model to look for. They have experts who could tell them the make and model exactly from a photo.

 

[LietKynes]

Oy-‍ This bloody page keeps reloading "an error has occurred and is reloading this page" eliminating everything I wrote while trying to post. This has been going on for two days. Frustrated-

If the page reloads... it was doing this for me yesterday -- scroll down to where you'd normally post. There might be a faded , cached copy of whatever you've started to write.

The post I was writing appeared that way --- I just had to click on the new post box.
Also, I don't move from the page if the site reloads, I just scroll down to see if my post appears greyed-out in the new post box below.
Hope that helps.

 

[tmar]

I think she would have been assaulted and killed in that house if not for that 911 call.

Perhaps Jayme was initially taken as a hostage, for security.
Now that the criminal/criminals have not been located, Jayme may not be required.
MOO.

 

[Stunned]

Right, they reported no guns were found at the scene. I don't think their initial assumption of suicide is significant in this case, since the coroner definitively declared it a homicide. Jmo

Were any guns registered too them?

 

[SeattleStew]

Right. Right there, why did he go to the door? I try to tell myself , don't get stuck there- move on with it. I guess I'm trying to figure out did he know this person, was it a stranger, did he hear something, was there a noise, knock ...... ?

Hi Harvest, I think a vehicle pulled in which made the dog bark. The dog barked and alerted James and he looked out the front blinds to check out what he could see. He sees a vehicle and heads toward the front door. At the same time, the perp exits vehicle, heads to front door, perp opens the storm door, kicks in front door, where James was standing. Shoots him right away. Now his biggest threat in the house at that moment is vanquished.

 

[cody22]

Were any guns registered too them?

We do not know.

 

[VeryVeritas]

There's no reason to abduct a 13 year old girl unless the purpose of the attack was to take her. She's a living, breathing, evidence-shedding machine. If this was a revenge attack on the family, why wouldn't all 3 family members be killed? If the point was to steal the child to hurt the family or demand ransom, the parents would not have been killed. If this was a murderer with a heart who did not want to hurt a child, he would have worn a mask and left Jayme unharmed.

Stealing a child puts a target on your back second only to acts of international terrorism. There are specialized FBI divisions and regional task forces whose sole purpose is to rescue or recover missing and exploited children. It is a very big jump to go from a run-of-the-mill street criminal to a kidnapper. There's a reason child molesters do not last long in prison - even hardened criminals do not condone hurting innocent children.

Thank you, and hopefully the reason why we are all here.

What I am concerned about is if this is a Duncan-style loner predator, there are not many people who would report the person missing or acting strangely. He could have set up a camp in the woods and not be seen for months. I am sure they are already checking campsites and flying drones over areas that could be potential campsites, but there is a lot of wilderness area out there.

I think this would also be a problem if it were a Looney living locally. Lots of cabins, hunting / fishing shacks and small homes in heavily wooded areas. Back roads leading away anywhere.

 

[Parks]

I think she would have been assaulted and killed in that house if not for that 911 call.

That is a valid thought but I’m hesitant to go there with you. Simply based on the thought, if he would’ve killed her within the home after the assault, there is little chance he chose to keep her alive after the assault elsewhere. I can’t go there yet, even if the odds are against her being alive.

 

[MassGuy]

Ok something that bothers me. The pictures of the auto's LE is looking for. Is the originality from photo's le might have gathered from video or are they from witness statements?

Witness statements 'it was sporty, low and red' could be anything but a video picture would seem they would have an exact model to look for. They have experts who could tell them the make and model exactly from a photo.

The Dodge Challenger is very specific, which tells me that video evidence likely played a role in its identification.

The vagueness of the black suv (2 different manufacturers) tells me that it’s possible that a witness may have identified that one.

We don’t know for sure how these vehicles were identified though, although it appears that surveillance footage contributed in regards to atleast one of them.

 

[PommyMommy]

Ok something that bothers me. The pictures of the auto's LE is looking for. Is the originality from photo's le might have gathered from video or are they from witness statements?

Witness statements 'it was sporty, low and red' could be anything but a video picture would seem they would have an exact model to look for. They have experts who could tell them the make and model exactly from a photo.

Fitzgerald said on Monday that through video camera footage from businesses and homes, they have identified two vehicles that were near the Closs home on Monday, October 15.
Jayme Closs' Aunt: 'We'll never stop looking for you'

 

[MsBetsy]

But 12:30am to 1:30am covers the time from 23 minutes before the 911 call until 30 minutes after the first officers arrived. What am I missing from what you are saying?

Just that they may not have reason to believe he was on the road before 12:30. That's all. 1:30 would cover about 30 minutes after the crime occurred. They are more interested in looking for a vehicle when he was driving FROM the crime rather than driving TO the crime. Otherwise they would have included the 30 minutes before the crime was already in progress. Maybe they are more sure of the route he took from the crime rather than his actions before he got there. I really don't know. The only other thing that makes sense is that they think he may have arrived a few minutes after 12:30, since they usually include the time before the crime actually started. Jmo

 

[cody22]

That is a valid thought but I’m hesitant to go there with you. Simply based on the thought, if he would’ve killed her within the home after the assault, there is little chance he chose to keep her alive after the assault elsewhere. I can’t go there yet, even if the odds are against her being alive.

Jayme was the main thrilling reason he did all this. He was not through having his fun yet.....?

 

[Gardener1850]

OCT 22, 2018 SUMMARY OF PRESS CONFERENCE

• Choppers in the air today are mapping/gridding area for the search tomorrow, 10/23.
• Search area based on info investigators have collected.
• Two vehicles of interest: 1) 2004-2010 Black Acura MDX OR 2006-2010 Black Ford Edge and, 2) 2008-2014 Red or Orange Dodge Challenger
• They do not know what license plates are on the vehicles.
• They have not ruled out any scenarios.
• Surveillance was taken from private homes and businesses. They were able to put together different shots to get those vehicles shown on the placards.
• Tips led to the search area, can’t provide specific information on tips.
• Tomorrow, volunteer teams will be led by LE. Other agencies assisting. Anything found will be given to LE who will give to an evidence officer.
• Won’t comment regarding James at the door of the house.
• They don’t know exactly what happened in the house.
• Won’t comment about any witnesses.
• Can’t assure the community about safety except that no similar crimes have taken place since this one. They do not know motive.
• There is no gag order on family. Family wants all communication to go through LE. They just want to find Jayme.
• 

2000 volunteers requested for search tomorrow.
UPDATE: Sheriff Fitzgerald announces vehicles of interest in Jayme Closs disappearance

Hope you feel better soon.

Ok something that bothers me. The pictures of the auto's LE is looking for. Is the originality from photo's le might have gathered from video or are they from witness statements?

Witness statements 'it was sporty, low and red' could be anything but a video picture would seem they would have an exact model to look for. They have experts who could tell them the make and model exactly from a photo.

(BBM)
See PommyMommy's summary of the presser where they introduced the vehicles of interest:

Surveillance was taken from private homes and businesses. They were able to put together different shots to get those vehicles shown on the placards.

 

[CuriousMaine]

But 12:30am to 1:30am covers the time from 23 minutes before the 911 call until 30 minutes after the first officers arrived. What am I missing from what you are saying?

Others have pondered: Maybe the perp(s) traveled down that road earlier, even hours earlier, parked, watched and waited...

I think the police covered it by asking anyone with any info on the cars to come forward, but posters are wondering why Sheriff didn't ask for a wider window of time, specifically before or after crime.

If someone saw the challenger (etc) at 10:05 pm, 12:15 am or 2:10 am on or near USH 8, I'd hope they're not sitting on that info thinking, "oh, well, cops said 12:30-1:30, guess I won't tell them about ..."

 

[MsBetsy]

I think I'm on the same page as MsBetsy so hopefully she won't mind if I try to explain. The point is that the neighbors claim to have heard gunshots at 12:31. But police are only looking for anyone who saw the vehicles on HWY 8 from 12:30 to 1:30. We are assuming that where ever the perps came from took more than 1 minute to drive to the house. Therefore we are thinking that either:
1. The police don't care about witnesses who saw the vehicles going towards the house.
OR
2. The neighbor's claim of hearing 2 shots at 12:31 may not be accurate nor even relevant to this case.

I lean towards #2 at this time. Which would change a lot of theories proposed so far. JMO.

Thank you. You explained it much better than I did.

 

[bizzle2]

Ok something that bothers me. The pictures of the auto's LE is looking for. Is the originality from photo's le might have gathered from video or are they from witness statements?

Witness statements 'it was sporty, low and red' could be anything but a video picture would seem they would have an exact model to look for. They have experts who could tell them the make and model exactly from a photo.

They have the cars on video. I'd stress that these vehicles are just vehicles of interest. The sheriff says below that the owners are not suspects. They've likely been able to verify the owners/alibis of the owners of other cars seen on the videos, but haven't yet been able to clear these vehicles. They must be pretty sure of the make/model, but they couldn't get plate numbers off the video.

Transcripts of interview with Sheriff Fitzgerald:

BANFIELD: And those vehicles, I got them up on the screen now. It`s a little difficult. There`s not a perfect description, but the way we know of them, vehicle number one is likely a 2008 to 2014 Dodge Challenger, either red and orange color. And vehicle number two is likely a 2006 to 2010 black Ford Edge or it could be another car, a 2004 to 2010 black Acura MDX. Why such a discrepancy and what kind of cars this might be?

FITZGERALD: We`ve had our experts go over hours of video and those are the best images that we can come up with so far. They continue to look at that information as we see -- as it comes across our investigator`s desk and that was the best we could come up with so far. And that`s why we released that to the public so they could help us because there were definitely two vehicles in the area that were vehicles of interest. They are not suspects. They are vehicles of interest. We need to know why those vehicles were in the area and who they belong to.

BANFIELD: To either exclude them or include them in this investigation, correct?

FITZGERALD: That is correct.

BANFIELD: And do you have any read on plates at all?

FITZGERALD: No, there is no good shot at this time. Again, we continue to go over video. If there`s anybody else that has video, we continue to collect that. We believe we have most or all of the video that we need collected and we hope -- unless we`re missing somebody out there, we hope that if anybody has video or truck video or video from maybe a dash cam of some sort, we want to collect that video.

BANFIELD: And so the information that you just released on these cars that are of interest, these vehicles, did that come from doorbell cams or did that come from surveillance from businesses, but maybe not particularly right in the area of their home?

FITZGERALD: I don`t know exactly where every piece of evidence came from or video came from, but I can tell you it came from private homes and from businesses. I do know that. But the exact outcome of each video that we recovered is unknown.

CNN.com - Transcripts

 

[MassGuy]

Jayme was the main thrilling reason he did all this. He was not through having his fun yet.....?

It’s possible that she is still alive, but the odds are against it.

Common sense says that if someone goes through all that trouble to kidnap a girl (two murders) he would keep her alive for a period of time.

In general though, that’s not how it works.

Still hope, but fading.

 

[Jethro4WS]

I think I'm on the same page as MsBetsy so hopefully she won't mind if I try to explain. The point is that the neighbors claim to have heard gunshots at 12:31. But police are only looking for anyone who saw the vehicles on HWY 8 from 12:30 to 1:30. We are assuming that where ever the perps came from took more than 1 minute to drive to the house. Therefore we are thinking that either:
1. The police don't care about witnesses who saw the vehicles going towards the house.
OR
2. The neighbor's claim of hearing 2 shots at 12:31 may not be accurate nor even relevant to this case.

I lean towards #2 at this time. Which would change a lot of theories proposed so far. JMO.

We don't know why law enforcement has chosen that specific time period. It can be mutually exclusive of anything we know about.

 

[MsBetsy]

Were any guns registered too them?

We dont know for sure, it hasn't been verified. But I think they may have owned a gun. Jmo

 

[MsBetsy]

We don't know why law enforcement has chosen that specific time period. It can be mutually exclusive of anything we know about.

Or it might be a clue. Jmo