AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #20

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mtnlites said:
Not necessarily. It's my opinion that the object of the crime was to abduct Jayme, but there's a chance that they were originally going to kill her, too, but at the last minute decided to take her. There is a chance that the perp still wanted to kill Jayme, but just didn't want to do it there. (For reasons that I am not going to speculate on publicly, but suffice to say that none of those reasons would be good.)
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Yes, that's a possibility and if you're hinting at a sex crime and murder I agree. But still, wasn't the object of the crime at the Closs home to abduct Jayme? Or do you think the perps were thrill killers who took Jayme for evil purposes as an afterthought? That more or less fits my lone perp white guy sex pervert killer profile and who lives in that area. But I think he went there purposely to take Jayme and terminated the parents more from necessity than for the thrill, but in that I could be wrong. Then he's triple evil.
 
Herb.Wis said:
Yes, that's a possibility and if you're hinting at a sex crime and murder I agree. But still the object of the crime at the Closs home was to abduct Jayme. Or do you think the perps were thrill killers who took Jayme for evil purposes as an afterthought? That more or less fits my lone perp white guy sex pervert killer profile and who lives in that area. But I think he went purposely to take and terminated the parents more from necessity than for the thrill, but in that I could be wrong.
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I am not married to one theory over another but yes, I DO think it is possible they (or he) took her as an afterthought and the original intent was to kill the parents and Jayme. (Or maybe even just the parents but then they saw Jayme and decided to take her with them.)
 
I know a lot of people saying that there are easier ways to take Jayme if that was the intent. That may not necessarily be true. I think the darkness of the night would play a huge role in that scenario.
My theory is that it is 100% local. They came for Jayme. Obviously didn't plan on 911 being called. Cars may not have even been used. Plenty of back trails and roads. I do have a question though and the answer could put my theory to bed. Would dogs be able to 100% follow a trail from the home?
 
Herb.Wis said:
Yes, that's a possibility and if you're hinting at a sex crime and murder I agree. But still the object of the crime at the Closs home was to abduct Jayme. Or do you think the perps were thrill killers who took Jayme for evil purposes as an afterthought? That more or less fits my lone perp white guy sex pervert killer profile and who lives in that area. But I think he went purposely to take and terminated the parents more from necessity than for the thrill, but in that I could be wrong.
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Need to eliminate the parents could be motivated by the fact that they would know him.
Or he wanted to do something terrible to Jayme as one last "I win" against the parent/parents/family.
 
Herb.Wis said:
Yes, and I definitely agree that somebody around Barron may know or vaguely suspect someone or something. That's why that recent NY Times article quote jumped out at me. But who out of shame or fear or cultural differences has not come forward yet. But I don't think it's a gang of killer teens in Barron. Nope.
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I think that was the most shocking aspect of the Grunwald case next to the ages of killers. Never would have dreamt gang affiliations in a a small Alaska area.
 
Celt1997 said:
One doesn't need to be involved in the drug problem in order to be a victim of the drug problem.

And, at this point, LE hasn't stated much of anything. Which is fine by me, but definitely leaves some things open for discussion.
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This is a good point. Some young people (not quite kids) broke into my grandmother's home because they just assumed an old lady had prescription drugs lying around the house and cash stuffed behind a cushion. They trashed the house pretty well and said if she had been home, they would have hurt her for not having those things. (This was like 2o or 30 years ago.)
 
DancingMuse said:
I agree with you daisy 6441; everything is still on the table, because we know so little.
You have really added a lot to the discussion with your very cogent questions and theories.
It is frustrating for all of us because a young woman's life hangs in the balance.

Seeming facts:
1) Jayme was alive at the end of the double homicide of her parents.
2) Her dog was alive also.

JMO: It "seems" that the rage is projected onto the parents. Not on Jayme though. She "seems" to be protected from that rage.
(And it doesn't have to be DIRECTED PERSONAL RAGE. It could be they just had to be "eliminated". Anything makes sense at this point.)

Seeming facts:
1) challenger was one car involved
2) black suv-type was the other car involved

JMO:
1) male unsub drove the challenger (Male tasked himself to do the shooting before Parents could arm themselves; Thank you SharonNeedles)
2) female unsub drove the black suv-type (Female tasked herself to safely get Jayme out the sliding side doors, and into the black car.)

The foster-care-related theories are interesting to me because as many WebSleuthers pointed out, the level of volatility, emotionality and feelings of profound loss somehow equate to the extremity of this crime.

MOO: It has that weird vibe of a family-on-family or, couple-on-another-couple crime; Almost like, "a relative of Jayme's is bringing up our child, so we're going to take Jayme from her parents to get back at that whole family that wrecked ours."
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BBM

With the cars -- I think they aren't really sure if it was both, just one, or maybe neither. Those were just unidentified cars seen on cameras in the area. They've called them vehicles of interest, but haven't called them suspects.
 
retiredrickyinCO said:
I can't believe all the posts suggesting that drugs could be the center of this crime. This seemed to be a squeaky clean family and for them to be attacked personally in this manner I think is unfair. Can't imagine what would happen if a family had a "marginal" lifestyle what people would say about them.
The only way I could even imagine there be any connection to drugs would be if either parent had to discipline employees at work for drug usage or possibly they were made aware of people doing drug transactions and they were targeted in that way. You have to remember this is working in a meat packing plant and some characters there might not live up to the highest standards. Not all, but certainly some. It is not a job for everyone. But I am virtually 100% certain it wasn't for any drug use or unpaid drug bill by anyone in the Closs family. If anything they showed their disapproval for drugs or disciplined someone and that somehow came back against them. MOO
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Drugs COULD very well be at the center of this crime. You do NOT have to be involved with drugs to be a victim of a drug related crime. It happens all the time...from property theft, to robbery, to violent random home invasions, to murder.
 
Jbetty567 said:
Theory on the delay between gunshots heard (if correct - 12:30 ish) and 911/extraction of Jayme: she was hiding. Perp planned the whole thing - she was targeted. Blew parents away but she hid and he had to take time to find her. She called 911 from moms phone from her hiding spot but couldn’t say anything - and then he found her. Possible yelling or screams on 911 (unverified).
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BBM
I had an AH-HAH feeling when I read your Jayme was hiding during the time between gunshots reported and 911 call.

BRILLIANT sleuthing! Pretty sure I hadn't read that theory before. It makes perfect human nature sense.


 
DancingMuse said:
I agree with you daisy 6441; everything is still on the table, because we know so little.
You have really added a lot to the discussion with your very cogent questions and theories.
It is frustrating for all of us because a young woman's life hangs in the balance.

Seeming facts:
1) Jayme was alive at the end of the double homicide of her parents.
2) Her dog was alive also.

JMO: It "seems" that the rage is projected onto the parents. Not on Jayme though. She "seems" to be protected from that rage.
(And it doesn't have to be DIRECTED PERSONAL RAGE. It could be they just had to be "eliminated". Anything makes sense at this point.)

Seeming facts:
1) challenger was one car involved
2) black suv-type was the other car involved

JMO:
1) male unsub drove the challenger (Male tasked himself to do the shooting before Parents could arm themselves; Thank you SharonNeedles)
2) female unsub drove the black suv-type (Female tasked herself to safely get Jayme out the sliding side doors, and into the black car.)

The foster-care-related theories are interesting to me because as many WebSleuthers pointed out, the level of volatility, emotionality and feelings of profound loss somehow equate to the extremity of this crime.

MOO: It has that weird vibe of a family-on-family or, couple-on-another-couple crime; Almost like, "a relative of Jayme's is bringing up our child, so we're going to take Jayme from her parents to get back at that whole family that wrecked ours."
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I'm just wondering when, out of total frustration, a family member is going to start speaking publicly about all this. They have to have suspicions and certainly more info than has been released. jmo
 
I have been sitting on the information for a few days but I saw someone brought up Jayme's other social media account. I looked at it and she hadn't saved anything in a year <modsnipped best not to mention it since against TOS>
EDIT
 
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Mountain_Kat said:
Drugs COULD very well be at the center of this crime. You do NOT have to be involved with drugs to be a victim of a drug related crime. It happens all the time...from property theft, to robbery, to violent random home invasions, to murder.
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Agree! Innocent people can be victims of others using drugs. Happens all the time in my experience. Short of saying it was the wrong house, this whole hit/cartel thing places blame on the parents which is a huge no no!
 
daisy6441 said:
I have been sitting on the information for a few days but I saw someone brought up Jayme's other social media account. I looked at it and she hadn't saved anything in a year but I did notice she had one follower. I looked at the name and found an address that is less than two hours from Barron.
EDIT
I don't know how much I can say without getting in trouble or if this information is against the rules.
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You can link the social media account on here. Just like Jayme's FB and Instagram were linked back on the first thread of this case.
 
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