AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #22

[PommyMommy]

Feds ‘Giving Up’ On Search For Missing Jayme Closs: ‘The Case Is Going Cold’

^^^ Horse poop ^^^
JMO​

 

[CuriousMaine]

Has anyone contacted the writer of the new article about the source for LE having Jayme's phone?

I know it's been reported that they have DC's phone. I suspect the reporter may have misunderstood (not unusual). At least they fixed the "James was at work" part. Lots of articles still have incorrect info in 4 week-old articles.

 

[Bugurl747]

Snipped for focus and BBM

What makes this different IMOO is that he didn’t say NO COMMENT to lots of questions. He answered most questions with either an explanation/answer along the lines of the information that has already been released OR he answers with things like ‘I wish I knew the answer to that ‘ or ‘That question keeps me awake at night and I just don’t know the answer ‘ or ‘’I really don’t know ‘ etc etc etc
It was really telling to me personally that when it cane to this question about a possible older BF - his reply was NO COMMENT on that .
That is why it stood out to me and why I found it so interesting.

When I watched the video, I noted that some of the questions asked were followed by "and why" after them, prompting Fitzgerald to elaborate on his responses additionally. There were some questions where he explained how some of the processes worked and or who was involved with them.

There was a point towards the end of the interview where some of the same questions had already been asked and or were evidence related where Fitzgerald had already stated he could not comment on such matters which kinda led into a quick fire stutter of questions from the interviewer where most of the quick "no comment, can't comment" responses were. In general, I felt he said no comment or can't comment quite a few times during the hour long interview.

Thread 21 POST 85

Here are some interview snips with Chris Fitzgerald's responses :

Is there DNA found at the scene? No Comment

Can you comment on evidence collected? No Comment

Was there a sex assault during this invasion? No comment

Rumors of Jayme having 19 year old boyfriend true? Can't comment on that

What is the damage to the chair? No comment on the evidence

 

[charminglane]

Back Burners.

 

[Gardener1850]

<modsnip - quoted post removed>

The autopsies ruled both parents died from homicide via gunshots. If one of them had been a suicide and Jayme took the gun afterwards, the ME would be able to determine suicide from the evidence, without needing the gun present. They determined both were homicides.

 

[Angleterre]

Yes. We have the National Crime Information Center (NCIC) which is a central database used for tracking crime-related information.

It assists law enforcement in that it comprises 21 different categories containing everything from missing person’s files, to gang records.

Say a person goes missing. Their information would be loaded by local or federal agencies into NCIC. If this person turns up anywhere in the country, then the agency who entered the information would be made aware of it.

National Crime Information Center (NCIC) — FBI

Thankyou for informing me of this. This is where it may get confusing or I may cause the confusion ( apologies in advance) but we have what’s called the PNC ( Police National Computer) which records all vehicles and their registered owners, all Disqualified drivers, Identifying markers on individuals ie. marker for violent or for drugs, identifying marks scars and/or tattoos on individuals who have been stop checked for search purposes, people who are ‘Wanted’ either by an individual officer of a particular Police Force and the arrestable offence that is attached or wanted on a prison recall or a violation etc
Anyone who is missing or as we call them MFH would be on here or names and alias names and addresses of those convicted individuals.
This is just a snapshot of the PNC

However, that is totally different to the database to which I referred to regarding the analysis of sexually motivated crimes and the MO

And that is also a separate entity from our National Intelligence Model of recording ALL Intelligence/information regarding individuals who have been arrested or subjected to a stop and search procedure or convicted of crime or just information that has been inputted into the system regarding an individual that has come from other agencies or from informants or from other avenues provided it is provenanced ( ie backed up and not just gossip).

We have data warehousing too whereby ALL the systems can be cross referenced because we also have different databases for Domestic Violence referrals and Child Protection referrals to Social Services / social workers and a National recording system for registered sex offenders and their management.
And we have MAPPA ( multi agency public protection arrangements ) and RAMM ( Risk assessment management meetings for individuals who pose a serious risk and concern to others within the community but they have either finished their prison sentence or they are not a convicted person but have come into the RAMM arena after a referral say from the Mental Health arena and the disclosures made during one of their psychiatric reviews have been deemed so serious that public protection needs over ride that of confidentiality ( that is a last resort and is not a decision taken lightly).
So as you can see, a myriad of information systems.
Apologies for going a little OT

 

[Mom24]

^^^ Horse poop ^^^
JMO​

I was just going to write a long post, but you summed the entire thing up in two words.

 

[1987]

we don't know or at least I don't know what kind of phone mom had, but most phones are touch screen now, not all I know. does anyone know if latex gloves were on a hand would a touch screen phone respond? could perp have ended the call and had to remove gloves to do so? if gloves were even on, just thinking finger prints.

 

[Bugurl747]

Thankyou for informing me of this. This is where it may get confusing or I may cause the confusion ( apologies in advance) but we have what’s called the PNC ( Police National Computer) which records all vehicles and their registered owners, all Disqualified drivers, Identifying markers on individuals ie. marker for violent or for drugs, identifying marks scars and/or tattoos on individuals who have been stop checked for search purposes, people who are ‘Wanted’ either by an individual officer of a particular Police Force and the arrestable offence that is attached or wanted on a prison recall or a violation etc
Anyone who is missing or as we call them MFH would be on here or names and alias names and addresses of those convicted individuals.
This is just a snapshot of the PNC

However, that is totally different to the database to which I referred to regarding the analysis of sexually motivated crimes and the MO

And that is also a separate entity from our National Intelligence Model of recording ALL Intelligence/information regarding individuals who have been arrested or subjected to a stop and search procedure or convicted of crime or just information that has been inputted into the system regarding an individual that has come from other agencies or from informants or from other avenues provided it is provenanced ( ie backed up and not just gossip).

We have data warehousing too whereby ALL the systems can be cross referenced because we also have different databases for Domestic Violence referrals and Child Protection referrals to Social Services / social workers and a National recording system for registered sex offenders and their management.
And we have MAPPA ( multi agency public protection arrangements ) and RAMM ( Risk assessment management meetings for individuals who pose a serious risk and concern to others within the community but they have either finished their prison sentence or they are not a convicted person but have come into the RAMM arena after a referral say from the Mental Health arena and the disclosures made during one of their psychiatric reviews have been deemed so serious that public protection needs over ride that of confidentiality ( that is a last resort and is not a decision taken lightly).
So as you can see, a myriad of information systems.
Apologies for going a little OT

Interesting and informative!

 

[MassGuy]

Thankyou for informing me of this. This is where it may get confusing or I may cause the confusion ( apologies in advance) but we have what’s called the PNC ( Police National Computer) which records all vehicles and their registered owners, all Disqualified drivers, Identifying markers on individuals ie. marker for violent or for drugs, identifying marks scars and/or tattoos on individuals who have been stop checked for search purposes, people who are ‘Wanted’ either by an individual officer of a particular Police Force and the arrestable offence that is attached or wanted on a prison recall or a violation etc
Anyone who is missing or as we call them MFH would be on here or names and alias names and addresses of those convicted individuals.
This is just a snapshot of the PNC

However, that is totally different to the database to which I referred to regarding the analysis of sexually motivated crimes and the MO

And that is also a separate entity from our National Intelligence Model of recording ALL Intelligence/information regarding individuals who have been arrested or subjected to a stop and search procedure or convicted of crime or just information that has been inputted into the system regarding an individual that has come from other agencies or from informants or from other avenues provided it is provenanced ( ie backed up and not just gossip).

We have data warehousing too whereby ALL the systems can be cross referenced because we also have different databases for Domestic Violence referrals and Child Protection referrals to Social Services / social workers and a National recording system for registered sex offenders and their management.
And we have MAPPA ( multi agency public protection arrangements ) and RAMM ( Risk assessment management meetings for individuals who pose a serious risk and concern to others within the community but they have either finished their prison sentence or they are not a convicted person but have come into the RAMM arena after a referral say from the Mental Health arena and the disclosures made during one of their psychiatric reviews have been deemed so serious that public protection needs over ride that of confidentiality ( that is a last resort and is not a decision taken lightly).
So as you can see, a myriad of information systems.
Apologies for going a little OT

We have VICAP, which is similar to what you described. Violent Criminal Apprehension Program - Wikipedia

 

[mtnlites]

This case really reminds me of the Lauria Bible and Ashley Freeman kidnapping and murders. There were 3 perps involved who broke into the Freeman's home and shot Danny and Kathy Freeman and kidnapped, raped and murdered Lauria and Ashley. It was over money owed for drugs (presumably by Danny Freeman). I wonder if what happened at the Closs home was debt related? Maybe not drugs but perhaps money owed for something else? James and Denise were the target and they took Jayme for reasons of their own?

I have also brought up this case several times so I'm glad that someone else brought it up. They claimed that they had not initially planned on taking Lauria and Ashley, that it was a last minute decision. And poor Lauria didn't even live there. LE truly botched that case. They had the evidence that helped them find the perps on the second day after the crime. If they'd acted it on it then, they might have found the girls alive. Instead, it took them 18 years...

 

[Angleterre]

Snipped for focus and BBM


When I watched the video, I noted that some of the questions asked were followed by "and why" after them, prompting Fitzgerald to elaborate on his responses additionally. There were some questions where he explained how some of the processes worked and or who was involved with them.

There was a point towards the end of the interview where some of the same questions had already been asked and or were evidence related where Fitzgerald had already stated he could not comment on such matters which kinda led into a quick fire stutter of questions from the interviewer where most of the quick "no comment, can't comment" responses were. In general, I felt he said no comment or can't comment quite a few times during the hour long interview.

Thread 21 POST 85

Here are some interview snips with Chris Fitzgerald's responses :

Is there DNA found at the scene? No Comment

Can you comment on evidence collected? No Comment

Was there a sex assault during this invasion? No comment

Rumors of Jayme having 19 year old boyfriend true? Can't comment on that

What is the damage to the chair? No comment on the evidence

Ok I’m not going to harp on anymore about this because it is all a matter of personal perspective and opinion (and I’m giving mine not just as a member of WS but also having had the benefit of experience as a Detective and an SIO in murder and serious crime ) and ( I’m not saying that this gives me ‘rites’ or that I’m more informed than you or better placed to know than you because I’m not and that is not what I mean) . In this case I only know as much as the rest of you all but my gut feeling is what I personally am going on here .
I do understand and appreciate what you are saying. As stated, I’m not saying that I am right BUT I would expect him to say NO COMMENT to DNA being recovered and NO COMMENT on what evidence has been recovered and NO COMMENT on sexual assault and NO COMMENT regarding the chair damage. This is all part of the evidence chain so of course he is not going to tell us what they have hence NO COMMENT.

BUT the question about the 19 year old BF is a question that IMOO is in a different category. It’s not a question about evidence recovery, of which he’s not going to tell us hence NO COMMENT.

It’s a question about a potential theory, line of enquiry, prospective offender . A question which, if he was to follow his own personal style of communicating ( look at previous press conferences to see what i mean about his own personal manner of dealing with and answering speculation etc ) he could have or would have said NO , that’s just rumour or NO, that’s not a line of enquiry that we are looking at or following or NO, it’s not helpful to keep perpetuating these rumours which are just that, rumours ....

He could have answered by wording it in any of the ways I’ve mentioned but he doesn’t do that . He doesn’t do what is normal to do for him based on his previous press conferences and updates.

He specifically chooses to say NO COMMENT.

That is why , IN MY OPINION, it’s a big red flag.

But it’s only my opinion and I could be wrong. My gut is telling me otherwise. We are all entitled here on WS to respectfully state our own opinions and this is mine .

But I also take on board the alternative opinions of all you great WS people out there who just want what I want - to bring Jayme safely home x

 

[BB71]

Actually, she probably wouldn’t have taken her cell phone, it’s too easy to trace. IMO

I don't think Jayme would think like that. But maybe. The pink fuzz ball on the chair (on the left side near possible mule tape) and the recovery of her phone tells me that she was in bed whenever this all went down. If so (Le would know if no shoes were gone, no coat gone) why not say she was abducted?

 

[cluciano63]

Are the pics of Jayme from the family party ones that can be posted? I have not seen them, would like to see what she looked like when she was abducted, seems more useful.

 

[pepper 34]

Human wrote:
"I can only go by what my husband does if he hears a noise. He looks out windows to see if he can figure out what is going on.

I cannot imagine anyone going boldy to answer a door at that hour, There had to be some exploration at first, I think.

What if the person hollered they had an accident? Would he simply go to the door or think he should go help?"

Nope...family inside, sorry. I would call 911. That seems so cold, but....

I agree. That's how I would handle the situation, too. Maybe that's why the door was kicked in though. Poor James... even if he opened the door to help someone, it seemed he was going to suffer the same fate, imo.

 

[cluciano63]

I don't think Jayme would think like that. But maybe. The pink fuzz ball on the chair (on the left side near possible mule tape) and the recovery of her phone tells me that she was in bed whenever this all went down. If so (Le would know if no shoes were gone, no coat gone) why not say she was abducted?

Also could be helpful if they have since narrowed down which coat, for example, is now missing from the home, if any. Any possible clothing description...

 

[1987]

so I don't have any latex gloves to try but I did find a nitrile glove and put it on and tried to see if a phone or tablet would respond. the blue nitrile glove did have full operation of a Motorola touch screen phone and a ipad. nitrile is commonly available glove type.

 

[cluciano63]

OT...when I went to let my little dog run outside to the courtyard for her morning relief...my door was not locked


Yikes. Had taken her out at midnight and somehow did not lock up.

 

[Jabarn]

I am not aware of one where every offense and details are available in one national data base.

The FBI may have one but I dont think its accessible for public viewing. Someone else may know though. Here it is up to each agencies what to report. Some do ...some dont and not in detail.

Your system sounds very interesting and I am sure it's very useful for all who are in the criminal justice system in your country.

Thank you for describing the system you have in place.

There is a system in Wisconsin that posts brief information on unsolved missing persons: Clearinghouse for Missing & Exploited Children & Adults | Wisconsin Department of Justice

Jayme’s case is so hard to understand. There is no obvious motive.

The murders of the parents suggest a perpetrator either very angry, or very determined. IMO.

The interview with Sheriff Fitzgerald Saturday on DrydenWire did not provide any additional leads, fwiw. He mostly seemed to be throwing his hands up.

 

[cluciano63]

Radar and Nancy Grace are the same level for me...though once in a great while Radar has true info...still, neither is reliable imo.