AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #24

[Rubiconbob]

That or 911 call

So how do you catch a random person who left behind nothing (almost) but now has a 13 yr old girl he didn't have before? Never mind what happened inside- it doesn't appear to point to anybody.

Voice might be recognizable to someone on the 911 call.
Shell casings might tell you about the gun but its probably not unique
gun has blood on it
shoes might have blood on them, clothes
He may have left DNA behind and can be traced via familial relationships
He might have acted strangely the next day(s) but they would be on him by now
Would need a place to hide her if she is alive or a place to dispose of her if she isn't'- might live alone or have lots of property
Had to know Jayme would be there, not totally unfamiliar to the area- I assume she was the target
Tire tracks as you sped out of the gravel driveway
Cameras caught your car at 1am nearby
Blood etc.. in your car- noticed by someone or cleaned
dropped something along the way
ever made a comment about or got caught checking out young girls, or jayme specifically

It is strange or unlucky there wouldn’t be more left to go on.... build a profile and pray for digital slip up.. if perp didn’t use internet or cellphone much. Gonna be difficult...

Male 18 to 55. Knows how to use gun. That would be a ton of possibles in 200 mile radius. Gotta be one shoe print u would think or hope.. still think previous google searches in last 5 yrs for that address or residents would have an odd hit or two.

If it’s some random person that drove by house a lot. That could be difficult.

 

[bellyup]

If the criminal/criminals were looking to take someone that was shy and was a compliant type of teen, it sounds like Jayme would have fit those characteristics. I say looking for a.shy/compliant teen because it would be easier to dominate and scare that type of person I would think. Good luck to someone who would try to take my rebellious, at times grouchy and disagreeable teens.

I don't think someone was looking to take a "shy compliant teen" though. I think someone got involved with Jayme or someone in her family and felt slighted somehow.

That's just my gut feeling. I don't feel like this was "I want a teenager, any teenager will do." There are far easier targets in that case. Including taking Jayme when she was alone vs doing it while her parents were home and having to murder them.

 

[JRW]

I think the chances this are a trafficking case are slim to none. Traffickers target girls who won't be missed. Who are unlikely to be reported missing for a period of time. They are generally opportunistic and not predatory.

They take them from the streets, from friends homes, from parties or drug houses. They set up dates and lure girls to come them. They don't go to a suburban family home with guns ablazing to steal a specific child with specific coloration and commit two murders in the process. This crime just doesn't fit a trafficking profile at all and I'll be completely floored if I'm wrong on that.

bellyup, I totally agree with you. I would be shocked if this was a typical trafficking incident. I think the 2 murders involved would make the situation risky and there was a huge chance of things going awry with the abduction. Traffickers have plenty of other opportunities to snatch children that are way easier than this, and victims that would be as easily marketable as Jayme on the Dark Web Just my opinion

 

[Abba's Tears]

That's what I'm thinking. I think the 911 dispatcher and the police heard more on that 911 call then they are saying to the public because it's likely their biggest lead at this point. What was heard likely made the dispatcher think it was a possible suicide scenario.

I haven't seen any information about this but what are WI state laws regarding 911 calls being public information?? I've seen family complaining that they haven't been permitted to hear it but in most states 911 calls are public record. LE can file to suppress it's release but it would be on a specific time line and have to be made available eventually.

BBM
911 calls can be requested under the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA), however if they are part of an ongoing investigation they are not required to be released. LE does not need to file to suppress the release, they simply deny the FOIA for just cause.

 

[andreww]

IP addresses are not device specific. The external IP address is assigned by your ISP to your router which in turn assigns different internal IP addresses to all devices in the network.

Changing an IP isn't difficult.

Yes, the external IP is applied to your router, so you can't tell exactly which device is accessing a specific site, just that a device on the network is. But we are talking about cell phones which would have to have their own unique external IP address.

 

[tiffkinsadder]

IMO if the neighbors were correct about the time it opens up more scenarios. We'd need to figure out what in the world happened in that house for 25 minutes.

I'm mostly doubting the time is correct because LE has said the perp wasn't in the house for that long, and the crime happened very quickly.

James was shot through the door. Denise got up to see what was going on and was shot but not mortality. Jayme was being sexually assaulted and Denise made it to the phone (or had it on her) and called 911. The perpetrator saw this and heard someone say help. He kicked the phone away. Took Jayme. Denise died before LE got there. Might explain the mattress being taken out of the house for evidence. I can’t see where the chair fit in. Unless the perpetrator tied her up in it. She got loose as Jayme was being hurt and got to her phone, perpetrator heard or saw and shot her, kicking the phone away and quickly took Jayme. Speculation only.

 

[JRW]

That man who broke into their home and stole her clothing what ever happened to him?

I believe the police cleared him and didn't consider him a suspect.

 

[1987]

Exactly. The IP address that connects to your router is not the IP address that I'm talking out here.

the router has its own ip address and each item has another ip address that is going threw the router, all different ip addresses, each item, all has a mac address, even the router. mac addresses are unique and never change no matter where item is or what network it is on, the item gets its mac address when manufactured and always keeps it and it sends the mac address out and the router identifies it. a mac address can be used to specifically block a exact item or in reverse to block all but one item or any combination of. not sure how it is being applied here with ip addresses but I have a couple of ideas on how a device could be identified, just not sure it applies if the network was locked so just not getting my thoughts too deep in that area. if ips and mac address aren't understood it can rapidly confuse some. a mac address can identify even the brand of a phone and if it is a world phone etc, maybe even give a persons name if they have named the device.

 

[Maybelline]

I don't think someone was looking to take a "shy compliant teen" though. I think someone got involved with Jayme or someone in her family and felt slighted somehow.

That's just my gut feeling. I don't feel like this was "I want a teenager, any teenager will do." There are far easier targets in that case. Including taking Jayme when she was alone vs doing it while her parents were home and having to murder them.

That’s true.

 

[SandyQLS]

So how do you catch a random person who left behind nothing (almost) but now has a 13 yr old girl he didn't have before? Never mind what happened inside- it doesn't appear to point to anybody.

Voice might be recognizable to someone on the 911 call.
Shell casings might tell you about the gun but its probably not unique
gun has blood on it
shoes might have blood on them, clothes
He may have left DNA behind and can be traced via familial relationships
He might have acted strangely the next day(s) but they would be on him by now
Would need a place to hide her if she is alive or a place to dispose of her if she isn't'- might live alone or have lots of property
Had to know Jayme would be there, not totally unfamiliar to the area- I assume she was the target
Tire tracks as you sped out of the gravel driveway
Cameras caught your car at 1am nearby
Blood etc.. in your car- noticed by someone or cleaned
dropped something along the way
ever made a comment about or got caught checking out young girls, or jayme specifically

I have thought all along that the unsub does not work a typical M-F 9-5 type of job. I doubt he worked on Monday Oct 15, at least not in the morning after his 1AM crime. He is comfortable exerting all this energy, executing his plan, driving, at 1AM. JMO

 

[Confusion]

All possibilities. Except I do not think Jayme had the phone in her hand.

The phone used was found in close proximity of both parents. Fitzgerald said he thinks the phone may have been kicked and just happened to land closer to Denise's body than Jim's.

That means to me the phone was found in the general location where both Denise and Jim's bodies were found.

Fitzgerald said the commotion heard on the call seem to come from another room from where the phone was located. It was the room Jayme was in. Imo

Imo this is when the suspect turned to Jayme after killing both parents and that is what is being overheard on Denise's phone located in the area she and Jim were in.

I dont think Jayme even knew her mom had tried to call 911 nor knew it did connect to the dispatcher.

I think this poor frightened traumatized child was just screaming for someone. ....anyone to help her hoping she could be heard outside.

Jmo

It is also possible that Jayme did make the call, but the phone was dropped or thrown (not by her) somewhere between the bodies. I'm really not too convinced it happened anything like what I said. I was just trying to come up with a reason for the damaged chair and Molly not leaving the house. MOO

Just to be clear i can't say I know for sure how the Tribal LE and local LE interact. BUT everyone is a human being and we are looking at a missing little girl and a double homicide. Even if there was some friction in day to day between the to groups I can't imagine that they would be anything less than cooperative in this matter. They don't want this individual living on their land either.

If I'm remembering correctly, if a crime is committed on tribal land, by and against a tribal member, it is handled by the tribal police. In the case of more serious crimes, I believe they usually either work with the local, state or federal LE depending on what the crime is. As far as I know, none of the reservations there have a place to incarcerate anyone. I've known several people, including relatives, who have lived on all 3 of them at different times, and helped start the tribal police at one (eventually becoming their chief of police.) If a crime was committed against a non-tribal member and/or off tribal land, I believe that the local police would handle it. Unfortunately, the person I could have asked that would know the most about it died a couple years ago. MOO

It did say in the police dispatch that the voicemail indicated the phone lists to Denise at that address. Don't know what her voicemail said so don't know how they came to that.

It wouldn't have to say much. If it said just, "Hi, you've reached the number of DC", I doubt there are many women in that town with the same name. MOO

The neighbors would have heard more than two shots then right?

There isn’t much in a 45 mile radius from there. Lots of forest

45 miles would go almost to Eau Claire and St. Croix, plus Turtle Lake with all the casino people, Rice Lake and other mid-sized towns. MOO

No, 1:03 is the time of the 911 call by the neighbours clock.

The neighbors had nothing to do with the 911 call. Their clock was checked for the time of the shots, 1:03 was the time the responding officer checked in saying it was a possible suicide. MOO

 

[andreww]

James was shot through the door. Denise got up to see what was going on and was shot but not mortality. Jayme was being sexually assaulted and Denise made it to the phone (or had it on her) and called 911. The perpetrator saw this and heard someone say help. He kicked the phone away. Took Jayme. Denise died before LE got there. Might explain the mattress being taken out of the house for evidence. I can’t see where the chair fit in. Unless the perpetrator tied her up in it. She got loose as Jayme was being hurt and got to her phone, perpetrator heard or saw and shot her, kicking the phone away and quickly took Jayme. Speculation only.

I don't think there is time for a sexual assault. Three or four minutes from entrance to exit. He came there to take Jayme, that's it.

 

[tiffkinsadder]

I don't think they know exactly how long. They are just saying that it was probably only a few minutes because the perp left basically no evidence of being there behind.

I'm pretty sure they are thinking that the crime started right around when the 911 call was placed.

Or in the process of happening?

 

[Le Singe]

"ADVISED OF A POSSIBLE SUICIDE ATTEMPT" was how it was dispatched. That didn't come from first responders.

I don't think it was shocked reaction coming from the dispatcher. I firmly believe something led the 911 dispatcher to believe it was a possible suicide call.

no we've been over this a lot first mention of suicide was from one of the officers on scene.

 

[andreww]

I don't think they know exactly how long. They are just saying that it was probably only a few minutes because the perp left basically no evidence of being there behind.

I'm pretty sure they are thinking that the crime started right around when the 911 call was placed.

I think they know exactly how long the crime took.

 

[calo44]

Cell towers will have a record of all phone numbers that routed through the towers at the time that Jayme was abducted. If the abductor's phone was turned on, and if the phone used a number that is registered to an owner, then it should be possible to narrow down the list of people in the area at the time of the abduction.

Agreed, especially phones that are traveling or moving from tower to tower at 1 am. They relied heavily on cell phone data in the Jessica Chambers case recently; its pretty impressive how they can put the data together and piece part of the crime together from all those little pings.

 

[tiffkinsadder]

I don't think there is time for a sexual assault. Three or four minutes from entrance to exit. He came there to take Jayme, that's it.

If I’m going with the neighbor hearing shots at the they stated, before the 911 call, that’s 25 minutes. He may have begun hurting her during this time. 911 was called, in no way was he done, so he took her. Speculation only.

 

[andreww]

If I’m going with the neighbor hearing shots at the they stated, before the 911 call, that’s 25 minutes. He may have begun hurting her during this time. 911 was called, in no way was he done, so he took her. Speculation only.

The Sheriff has said he wasn't there for more than a couple of minutes. Sorry if it doesn't fit your theory.

 

[1987]

example of a wifi monitor software.

 

[Rubiconbob]

Agreed. Perp knew he had to be in and out in quick time.

Then drive away at speed limit.

Don’t know why they took mattress??
Perp May have leaned on?? Dunno

I don't think there is time for a sexual assault. Three or four minutes from entrance to exit. He came there to take Jayme, that's it.

d