AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #25

[Seattle1]

Police said that they tried to phone the house but the phone was "disconnected". I'm trying to understand what that means. Presumably, if police had a phone number for the landline, then the phone was connected and paid for. Does "disconnected" mean that the line was cut? Sorry, I don't really understand your question.

About 3 years ago, I terminated my 25 year landline service and phone number, for dedicated use of my cell phone. However, as of this date, my name and former number still appear in the latest telephone directory. Curious, I just dialed my old number, and heard the following intercept, message:

You have reached a number that has been disconnected or is no longer in service. If you feel you have reached this recording in error, please check the number and try your call again.

I think it's more likely than not that this is what happened when the Police Dispatcher tried contacting the Closs residence and reported the number as "disconnected." MOO

 

[cherrymeg]

Catholic Church actually requires a closed casket. If Denise was later cremated, I believe it's possible Denise family rented a casket for her body to receive the christian ritual.

https://rcav.org/uploadedFiles/Abou...Burials_in_the_Catholic_Church_May_2_2012.pdf

FUNERAL MASS:

The body of the deceased should be present in church for the Funeral Mass or “Mass of Christian Burial.”

The casket remains closed during the funeral. and should be covered with a white pall in remembrance of the baptismal garment. In addition to its liturgical significance, the pall serves a very practical purpose: it avoids ostentation, prevents possible embarrassment of the poor and emphasizes Christians’ equality before God.

I've been to two Catholic funerals they were both open casket. One was a nun.

 

[cherrymeg]

About 3 years ago, I terminated my 25 year landline service and phone number, for dedicated use of my cell phone. However, as of this date, my name and former number still appear in the latest telephone directory. Curious, I just dialed my old number, and heard the following intercept, message:

You have reached a number that has been disconnected or is no longer in service. If you feel you have reached this recording in error, please check the number and try your call again.

I think it's more likely than not that this is what happened when the Police Dispatcher tried contacting the Closs residence and reported the number as "disconnected." MOO

I was wasn't sure if it meant they canceled that service or if the took the phone off the hook at night. That might just come up as busy.

 

[Ragnarok]

Is there a way to see this without paying? Every link I try tells me I have to pay to subscribe.

I just clicked the link and the article displayed without a payment request?

 

[Seattle1]

I was wasn't sure if it meant they canceled that service or if the took the phone off the hook at night. That might just come up as busy.

This post is about the dispatchers report indicating "disconnected" I don't think that means "busy" which is the signal one hears when phone off the hook (without call waiting service).

 

[Seattle1]

I've been to two Catholic funerals they were both open casket. One was a nun.

The link in post referenced Canon law for Funeral Mass where the closed casket is covered with white pall as at the Closs' service. (Not to be confused with a Funeral Vigil).

 

[IceIce9]

Catholic Church actually requires a closed casket. If Denise was later cremated, I believe it's possible Denise family rented a casket for her body to receive the christian ritual.

https://rcav.org/uploadedFiles/Abou...Burials_in_the_Catholic_Church_May_2_2012.pdf

FUNERAL MASS:

The body of the deceased should be present in church for the Funeral Mass or “Mass of Christian Burial.”

The casket remains closed during the funeral. and should be covered with a white pall in remembrance of the baptismal garment. In addition to its liturgical significance, the pall serves a very practical purpose: it avoids ostentation, prevents possible embarrassment of the poor and emphasizes Christians’ equality before God.

Of course, but isn’t it usual to have a visitation

Catholic Church actually requires a closed casket. If Denise was later cremated, I believe it's possible Denise family rented a casket for her body to receive the christian ritual.

https://rcav.org/uploadedFiles/Abou...Burials_in_the_Catholic_Church_May_2_2012.pdf


FUNERAL MASS:

The body of the deceased should be present in church for the Funeral Mass or “Mass of Christian Burial.”

The casket remains closed during the funeral. and should be covered with a white pall in remembrance of the baptismal garment. In addition to its liturgical significance, the pall serves a very practical purpose: it avoids ostentation, prevents possible embarrassment of the poor and emphasizes Christians’ equality before God.

I think they have a visitation, or viewing, with the option of having the casket open.

I just found it odd that her father said it was a closed casket, normally they have a viewing for the family, at least, if not the public.

Roman Catholic Funeral Customs

The most common elements of a Roman Catholic funeral are:

1. A Vigil service with either the body or cremated remains present. If the body is present, the casket may be either open or closed.

Roman Catholic Funeral Customs

 

[IceIce9]

I've been to two Catholic funerals they were both open casket. One was a nun.

My sister in law was a nun, and when a nun that belonged to that convent died they always had a 3- day visitation with open casket.

 

[KLM6]

Catholic Church actually requires a closed casket. If Denise was later cremated, I believe it's possible Denise family rented a casket for her body to receive the christian ritual.

https://rcav.org/uploadedFiles/Abou...Burials_in_the_Catholic_Church_May_2_2012.pdf

FUNERAL MASS:

The body of the deceased should be present in church for the Funeral Mass or “Mass of Christian Burial.”

The casket remains closed during the funeral. and should be covered with a white pall in remembrance of the baptismal garment. In addition to its liturgical significance, the pall serves a very practical purpose: it avoids ostentation, prevents possible embarrassment of the poor and emphasizes Christians’ equality before God.

Respectfully, As a Catholic in the U.S. I can tell you that a closed casket is not mandatory. There is a rite and vigil that should be done with the casket closed, but the casket can be open at the wake and at the funeral Mass. The article you referred to is from Vancouver, so maybe its different there, idk. Most often with most funeral homes though, regardless of religion, even if a casket is closed for the wake, the immediate family will be offered a private viewing. If they were not allowed to see them, it was most likely because the funeral home advised against it.

 

[Seattle1]

Of course, but isn’t it usual to have a visitation
I think they have a visitation, or viewing, with the option of having the casket open. I just found it odd that her father said it was a closed casket, normally they have a viewing for the family, at least, if not the public.
Roman Catholic Funeral Customs
The most common elements of a Roman Catholic funeral are:

1. A Vigil service with either the body or cremated remains present. If the body is present, the casket may be either open or closed.

Yes, I agree it's common to also have a Vigil or Viewing (with open casket) in addition to the decedent's Funeral Mass of Christian Burial. According to the Obituary, a Visitation was held a couple hours prior to the Funeral Mass. However, under the circumstances of their deaths -- killed by gunshots, it makes perfect sense to me that the family and/or Denise Dad opted not to have an open casket Viewing, Vigil, Visitation, or Funeral Mass of Christian Burial. MOO

 

[KLM6]

With the phone lines, think of it in terms of your power or cable tv lines. If they are damaged or the wires are down, your service is not "disconnected", you just have "no service". So if you call a landline where there is paid service, but lines have been physically damaged, the phone will ring continuously or it will ring busy (in a lot of cases its a fast busy). If you get a "disconnected" message, it means that service has been shut off by the company (non-payment, cancelled, etc.).

 

[Pretty Go Pale]

My mind still keeps kicking these facts around:

* First responding LE on the scene at the Closs house advises dispatch of "possible suicide attempt."

* Sheriff says the deaths of Denise and James Closs are ruled homicides, because both died of gunshot wounds and no gun was found on the scene. I can't remember the exact quote, but it was a bit strange the way the Sheriff worded it.

* Sheriff's Department says "this case is particularly interesting as there were no weapons found on scene."

By my reading, these facts -- taken together -- make me think there was something odd about the shootings -- something that at least seemed to suggest that if not for the lack of a gun being found at the scene, one of the deaths could be perceived as a suicide.

Even if I'm off on my analysis, these three facts are really bugging me; I think LE sees something strange about the shootings, but is keeping the info, understandably, close to the vest.

 

[sbsuzilight]

My sister in law was a nun, and when a nun that belonged to that convent died they always had a 3- day visitation with open casket.

As a Catholic, I can tell you that normally there is a wake, which is visitation in the funeral home for family and friends. If possible, the casket is open, but sometimes that is not possible due to the condition of the body. The morning of the funeral a short visitation is allowed for final goodbyes. Then the casket is closed and remains closed at the church.

 

[1987]

the burial arrangements leads me to think they died of a shotgun blast at close range, that might make embalming almost not do able. beyond that the family made a choice that was theirs to make. they died together and apparently loved each other so why not bury them together. if nothing else by doing so would make me think that both his and her family cooperated enough to manage to make a choice together. other thing I might also consider if they had two plots together the family might have wanted to reserve the second one just incase they needed it to put their child with them because there is no way of knowing she will come back alive, though I still have hope.

 

[sbsuzilight]

Is there a way to see this without paying? Every link I try tells me I have to pay to subscribe.

Go to post 206 in this thread. That link will open it up. I tried the one you posted and could not get to it, as you said.

 

[andreww]

I've considered the closed casket news as possible evidence that the wounds were in the head/neck area and were obviously severe. This might explain why there was no communication on the 911 call, because the person simply couldn't speak.

 

[Warwick7]

The last month I have really been aware of kidnappings and disappearances.
This guy:
Hotel owner with 'sex dungeon' arrested for trying to buy child came up on my news feed. He thought he was purchasing a child. That he was selling to clients. There are now 3 perps in this triangle; the kidnapper seller, the purchaser and his establishment, and his clientele.

There are volunteers who pose as underage girls to help LE build cases. They volunteer at atypical hours and the research back was that these guys are like cockroaches. Take 10 off the streets, 10 more spawn. Really disheartening to read.

I appreciated your post Oceanblueeyes. Something to look forward to. Let's go Genomes!

I wish there was a sad face button to push.

 

[1987]

I've considered the closed casket news as possible evidence that the wounds were in the head/neck area and were obviously severe. This might explain why there was no communication on the 911 call, because the person simply couldn't speak.

this would also explain no rescue attempt. I think if there was any chance that they had still had a heart beat or breathing for a min after the call and even if not when LE got there a rescue would have been attempted unless it was so obvious that there was zero chance.

 

[JaneEyre]

Of course, but isn’t it usual to have a visitation


I think they have a visitation, or viewing, with the option of having the casket open.

I just found it odd that her father said it was a closed casket, normally they have a viewing for the family, at least, if not the public.

Roman Catholic Funeral Customs

The most common elements of a Roman Catholic funeral are:

1. A Vigil service with either the body or cremated remains present. If the body is present, the casket may be either open or closed.

Roman Catholic Funeral Customs

Yes, and you only say it’s closed casket if it is never opened for a public viewing. Catholic visitation is no different than Protestant. Casket is usually open during visitation unless there is a specific reason to have it closed (the person’s wishes not to have a viewing or, more likely, severe damage to the body that would be disturbing). The casket is then closed but present for the funeral mass. But then, this is how I have always seen it done for Lutherans as well - open for visitation and closed during the funeral service.

 

[KLM6]

My mind still keeps kicking these facts around:

* First responding LE on the scene at the Closs house advises dispatch of "possible suicide attempt."

* Sheriff says the deaths of Denise and James Closs are ruled homicides, because both died of gunshot wounds and no gun was found on the scene. I can't remember the exact quote, but it was a bit strange the way the Sheriff worded it.

* Sheriff's Department says "this case is particularly interesting as there were no weapons found on scene."

By my reading, these facts -- taken together -- make me think there was something odd about the shootings -- something that at least seemed to suggest that if not for the lack of a gun being found at the scene, one of the deaths could be perceived as a suicide.

Even if I'm off on my analysis, these three facts are really bugging me; I think LE sees something strange about the shootings, but is keeping the info, understandably, close to the vest.

I know the whole suicide thing gets people worked up on here. But I agree with you. The 'advised of a possible suicide attempt', then a minute later 'man down, possible suicide', gets me. What did they initially see before they found James dead that caused them to think suicide attempt? I still believe its possible that James's death wasnt ruled suicide because the weapon is missing. Ive stated this a few times before and get bashed all over the place. But I do firmly believe its a possibility. With another person dead, and Jayme missing, its safer to call it a homicide for now until all the facts are in. And its very possible to change that ruling later. jmho.