AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #25

[Mom24]

Im discussing it because its my opinion that its still possible. Im here to discuss my opinion, not persuade or dissuade anyone of theirs.

Are you thinking it's still a possible suicide? Because without a weapon near the body that might be difficult to understand.
IMO LE pulled up, door is open and a man is dead. There are no other vehicles, no one else is around, the house at first glance appeared undisturbed and so the natural conclusion would be suicide. My grandfather died many years ago and the scene was very bloody and they initially called it in as a suicide. It wasn't, but that was how it was initially called in because he was alone, the scene was very bloody and no one else was at the home. Years before another man had died in town, the initial call was a suicide. He'd been shot in his home, but because he had initially called 911 and they arrived within minutes, the scene was bloody, the initial reaction was suicide. It's not as uncommon as you would think.
But unless James shot through the door, shot his wife, killed himself and then Jayme grabbed the gun and ran out the door, there's little chance this is a suicide. Additionally, a medical examiner will be able to tell trajectory of bullets and whether or not it would be possible to have been a self inflicted wound.
I don't think they look at every situation as a suicide, but a quiet house, a dead person and no one seemingly around, I could see where that would be the initial reaction.

 

[Gardener1850]

Did James really work that many hours? Or did his relatives get that impression, i.e maybe not seeing much of him? Not sure it matters really, unless for some unlikely reason he was getting the overtime that some nut job wanted and was killed over it, which is...ridiculous.

It may just have been a comment that all James really does is go to work, meaning what motive could anyone have against him. Jmo

BBM. I have never thought of that angle but it actually doesn't sound that ridiculous to me. In high turn over jobs, like factory work, there is always that one employee that can be counted on to show up and do their job well. I have a feeling Jim Closs was that kind of employee due to his long tenure at the factory-- he was dependable and competent. Sometimes that type of person gets bashed in office rumors just because they are dependable and always get offered the overtime hours first. My DH faced this in his workplace one time where he and another employee had the same position on opposite shifts. My DH was always the one offered extra hours or special assignments. If someone had to meet with the company CEO, for example, my DH was the one who got picked. My DH's coworker hated him for this alone and started saying nasty things about him behind his back. My DH took extra hours because we were trying to pay off debt and save up for a new car (and it did not hurt him to get extra points with the boss). The coworker started saying things like-- "this guy must hate his family because he is always here working"-- which could not have been further from the truth-- I was all for him working the extra hours and making advancements in his career. The coworker was on his 3rd marriage which was failing and he did not last long in that job (not due to anything my DH did but just because the coworker was not a good employee). Over a decade later, my DH and I are still happily married and he has a great career. Fortunately for us, the coworker moved on and never got violent, but there are people who will turn to violence if they hate someone enough. Jealousy can be a strong motive IMO.

All that said, I have doubts that a coworker issue was the cause of this crime. It doesn't make any sense to murder both James and Denise and take Jayme if employment jealousy was the problem. If someone had an issue with either of the parents or thought James was taking all the overtime hours, it would make more sense for only James to be murdered. I also think that a workplace dispute would more likely lead to the perp showing up at work or waiting outside of Jennie O for the person to get off work. It doesn't make sense to go to their house and involve the rest of the family. JMO.

 

[aliensporebomb]

I'm really really disappointed that LE is not doing a better job on this. This person is outsmarting them, Wow. Small community, big populous plant, how hard can this be?

3300 people in Barron. If the FBI is involved they probably have a dossier on every single one of them by now.

 

[aliensporebomb]

An interesting look at home invasions. The more you read about them, the more I'm worried this may have been random.
Providence man recounts violent home invasion

As a musician myself I guess I'll say "don't post pics of your expensive gear on gear forums, people can find out who you are and where you live". These people in this article are scum and need to be caught and think nothing of selling stolen gear for a quick buck. Poor guy, his son was very lucky he wasn't caught by these perps himself and his escape saved himself and his dad.

 

[cluciano63]

BBM. I have never thought of that angle but it actually doesn't sound that ridiculous to me. In high turn over jobs, like factory work, there is always that one employee that can be counted on to show up and do their job well. I have a feeling Jim Closs was that kind of employee due to his long tenure at the factory-- he was dependable and competent. Sometimes that type of person gets bashed in office rumors just because they are dependable and always get offered the overtime hours first. My DH faced this in his workplace one time where he and another employee had the same position on opposite shifts. My DH was always the one offered extra hours or special assignments. If someone had to meet with the company CEO, for example, my DH was the one who got picked. My DH's coworker hated him for this alone and started saying nasty things about him behind his back. My DH took extra hours because we were trying to pay off debt and save up for a new car (and it did not hurt him to get extra points with the boss). The coworker started saying things like-- "this guy must hate his family because he is always here working"-- which could not have been further from the truth-- I was all for him working the extra hours and making advancements in his career. The coworker was on his 3rd marriage which was failing and he did not last long in that job (not due to anything my DH did but just because the coworker was not a good employee). Over a decade later, my DH and I are still happily married and he has a great career. Fortunately for us, the coworker moved on and never got violent, but there are people who will turn to violence if they hate someone enough. Jealousy can be a strong motive IMO.

All that said, I have doubts that a coworker issue was the cause of this crime. It doesn't make any sense to murder both James and Denise and take Jayme if employment jealousy was the problem. If someone had an issue with either of the parents or thought James was taking all the overtime hours, it would make more sense for only James to be murdered. I also think that a workplace dispute would more likely lead to the perp showing up at work or waiting outside of Jennie O for the person to get off work. It doesn't make sense to go to their house and involve the rest of the family. JMO.

My ex worked at the post office for thirty years and overtime was fought for, argued about, gossiped about, etc...he was the only one who never wanted any at all. But everyone else did.

The link to work and both parents being killed only strikes me since they both worked there...in someone unstable, they could both be “enemies”.

 

[Jethro4WS]

That's a good analysis, and exactly what I think happened. But it only addresses the first fact I mentioned. It doesn't address:

* Sheriff says the deaths of Denise and James Closs are ruled homicides, because both died of gunshot wounds and no gun was found on the scene. I can't remember the exact quote, but it was a bit strange the way the Sheriff worded it.

* Sheriff's Department says "this case is particularly interesting as there were no weapons found on scene."

It's the three things together that really confound me. Trying to think of something that would explain all three facts, I came up w/ a possibility, though I acknowledge it's a stretch - and one I don't expect happened: a suicide note at the scene.

I understand the issue. It is problematic.

I don't know when the first bullet point was said but I expect that it was early. However, the second bullet point quote came much later.

The first one certainly could be based on initial investigation and preliminary notions of the crime flow but the second came later after law enforcement would have enhanced the 911 call and was able to model the crime flow and have a good understanding of how the crime played out and yet he says the same thing. So the conundrum is why would the Sheriff have an expectation, given what they know about the crime flow, that the firearm used in the crime would be found at the scene and yet it wasn't.

What it suggests to me is that what transpired into the Closs home that night is not consistent with how the crime is being perceived in the media (or even here at WS). Clearly if this was a home invasion style crime the Sheriff should have no expectation that the perpetrator would leave their weapon behind at the scene.

 

[Gardener1850]

One of the things that has always bothered me about this case is the location of James red pickup truck in the driveway. Why wouldn't he have parked next to Denice's car in front to the double garage doors instead of so far down off the driveway ? Was this just a quirk of his to park there, or did he normally pull in next to his wife's car ? Unless this was James' usual practice, it almost looks as if he couldn't pull in next to his wife's car because a car was already parked there.

(Just thinking out loud, I guess.)

I think he parked there in order to leave room for both of them to be able to do a u-turn and pull out of the driveway in forward drive. Living on a busy HWY it probably was easier than trying to back out. I also noted that in order to get to the front door from the location where Denise's car was parked requires going up a set of steps in the hill next to the garage. Perhaps where James parked he could easily walk across the lawn and not have to take the extra stairs. After a day working on his feet that might have been his preference. JMO.

 

[aliensporebomb]

I am frustrated also ...but put yourself in there shoes...zero home cam ..47 second 911 call... you could have shoe prints and gun type and that’s it... if it’s common gun and average atypical shoe... not a lot there

Unless there's footprints or tiretracks in the mud/snow outside which would have more information about sole/tire tread type than just random impressions in carpeting.

 

[Mom24]

I always get tangled up on the social media rules but the family is asking people to print fliers and post at truck stops, etc on one of the public Facebook pages. Hoping someone traveling for the holiday will see something.

If I can post the flier here or someone can link it?

You can msg the mods and see if it's okay to link the flyer. Isn't there a find jayme website?

 

[HayLouise]

Here is a thorough recap of #JaymeCloss case as we hit Thanksgiving. Jayme's tight-knit family planning to gather at her grandfather's house for the holiday. Waiting anxiously for that one call. #FindJayme #FindJaymeCloss

Paul Blume on Twitter

The grandfather of a Wisconsin girl still missing after her parents were slain plans to host Thanksgiving at his home, hoping to provide some comfort to grief-stricken loved ones.

AP Central U.S. on Twitter

 

[Gardener1850]

My ex worked at the post office for thirty years and overtime was fought for, argued about, gossiped about, etc...he was the only one who never wanted any at all. But everyone else did.

The link to work and both parents being killed only strikes me since they both worked there...in someone unstable, they could both be “enemies”.

That's true, but even if someone hated both parents, why take Jayme? I'm not reading too much into both parents working at the same employer in this case, only because there are so few employment opportunities available in the area. If LE investigated every person who worked at Jennie O in Barron they probably would have to interview more than half the town. Unfortunately that's not realistic-- to interview someone simply because they worked there. In the Superbike murders case in SC police had a list of customers and Todd Kohlhepp was on that list but was never interviewed. They didn't solve that case until he was caught for other crimes and confessed to the Superbike murders too. I won't be surprised if it turns out to be someone who worked at Jennie O at one point, but that doesn't necessarily mean this was an employment dispute either. Because there are so few jobs in the area and the factory employs 1000's of people not everyone who works there necessarily knew the Closs'. I would not be at all surprised if the perp's name is listed on a list in LE's files for the case (I'm certain they have a list of all employee names) but perhaps they have no way to connect him in any way that makes sense so he has not been interviewed/investigated. Regardless, Jayme being taken still stands out to me as unusual for that type of motive (workplace grievance). I can't seem to make the pieces of the puzzle fit. JMO.

 

[Seattle1]

Paul Blume‏Verified account @PaulBlume_FOX9
Paul Blume Retweeted AP Central U.S.

Here is a thorough recap of #JaymeCloss case as we hit Thanksgiving. Jayme's tight-knit family planning to gather at her grandfather's house for the holiday. Waiting anxiously for that one call. #FindJayme #FindJaymeCloss

Paul Blume added,

AP Central U.S.‏Verified account @APCentralRegion
The grandfather of a Wisconsin girl still missing after her parents were slain plans to host Thanksgiving at his home, hoping to provide some comfort to grief-stricken loved ones.
10:48 AM - 21 Nov 2018

As investigators continue the search, Naiberg said his family is doing what they can to help, making flyers and giving them to people to take to places they go on vacation.

Naiberg said he was close with Jayme and recalls how she and her mom visited him every weekend after his wife died nearly three years ago. They would decorate her grave and sometimes bring him collectibles from antique stores.

“I got a lot of things around here I look at and think of them,” he said.

March 16 will be three years since his wife passed away, Naiberg said.

“That was hard to get over,” he said. “I don’t know if I’ll ever get over this.”

 

[Deleted member 158085]

A funeral held at a Catholic Church probably requires a closed casket, I'll agree with that since I've never seen an open casket inside a Catholic Funeral Mass. But... usually the bodies are held at funeral homes for a day or two before the funeral mass takes place. That is where friends and families come together to mourn the loss of loved ones. Its not uncommon for caskets to be open at funeral homes depending on the wishes of the deceased person and or his/her loved ones. They then close the casket and transport it to the Church for a funeral mass, which is typically a closed casket, then off to the cemetery etc....

My grandmother’s casket was open inside the church for visitation prior to the mass. It can be opened inside the church, but most close during mass, which is after viewing is over.

 

[bellyup]

Has anyone seen any mention of LE requesting trail cams from local hunters? Seems to me there would be many leading up to the start of hunting season. There has to be something, somewhere.

 

[Sanz]

I think he parked there in order to leave room for both of them to be able to do a u-turn and pull out of the driveway in forward drive. Living on a busy HWY it probably was easier than trying to back out. I also noted that in order to get to the front door from the location where Denise's car was parked requires going up a set of steps in the hill next to the garage. Perhaps where James parked he could easily walk across the lawn and not have to take the extra stairs. After a day working on his feet that might have been his preference. JMO.

Or, to add another possibility that James or the family for that matter were expecting a delivery that evening or early morning and he parked his truck allowing room for the delivery to be put in the garage or closer to the front door of the house. Moo

 

[Gardener1850]

That's a good analysis, and exactly what I think happened. But it only addresses the first fact I mentioned. It doesn't address:

* Sheriff says the deaths of Denise and James Closs are ruled homicides, because both died of gunshot wounds and no gun was found on the scene. I can't remember the exact quote, but it was a bit strange the way the Sheriff worded it.

* Sheriff's Department says "this case is particularly interesting as there were no weapons found on scene."

It's the three things together that really confound me. Trying to think of something that would explain all three facts, I came up w/ a possibility, though I acknowledge it's a stretch - and one I don't expect happened: a suicide note at the scene.

What is the context of those quotes by the sheriff? Especially the second one. Context is important for deciphering his meaning IMO. LE has clearly stated this is not a suicide. This is a double homicide. The ME's report is finalized. To insist it could still be suicide or to say maybe LE is lying for some reason is hurtful to the family and could be harmful to the investigation as well. JMO.

Here are some other things the sheriff said recently:

“This is the worst crime that’s ever happened in Barron County.” Those are the words of Barron County Sheriff Chris Fitzgerald, now one month since Jayme Closs disappeared and her parents were found shot to death in their home.

Sheriff Fitzgerald keeping hope Jayme Closs is still alive, calls it the worst crime in county history

They have had murder suicides before, why would this crime be worse if one parent was secretly a suicide?

Fitzgerald said his gut tells him this was a targeted, not random, attack.

“I mean, if I’m there to take revenge on dad or mom and this kid walks out of whatever room she is in in the house, and just shows up and I didn’t know that, I would have shot her and went on,” Fitzgerald said. “That didn’t happen, so for whatever reason, they took her.”

News 18 asked the sheriff to verify he has no doubt Jayme was abducted against her will.
“I believe that, I mean she’s missing and endangered,” Fitzgerald said. “She is a 13-year-old girl. We have no evidence to prove that she was involved at all.

Sheriff Fitzgerald keeping hope Jayme Closs is still alive, calls it the worst crime in county history

He is calling this a targeted attack and he is operating under the assumptions:
1. Jayme was the target.
2. She was taken against her will.
and 3. She was not involved.
Again, how would suicide of one of the parents fit into a scenario like this? What possible reason would LE have to keep something like that quiet and flat out lie to the community and her family? LE does sometimes lie but usually it would be more in the vein of misdirection or evading answering questions directly (like if they had decided not to release the causes of death in this case). Lying about something like this would cause a huge loss of trust and I cannot imagine what purpose it would serve. JMO.

 

[Deleted member 158085]

Did James really work that many hours? Or did his relatives get that impression, i.e maybe not seeing much of him? Not sure it matters really, unless for some unlikely reason he was getting the overtime that some nut job wanted and was killed over it, which is...ridiculous.

It may just have been a comment that all James really does is go to work, meaning what motive could anyone have against him. Jmo

This is what I’m thinking. When my brother is working a lot of overtime for some reason I may guess at how many hours he’s working but likely not really know. I think it was just that sibling’s way of stressing that he worked a heck of a lot so didn’t have much time for outside of work interactions.

 

[Gardener1850]

The most popular turkey producer in the area and it was the month before Thanksgiving. I think you are right that it starts and stops there. Mandatory OT at a turkey plant in October is like mandatory OT at H&R Block in March before tax time. Comes with the territory.

Excellent point.

 

[1987]

jenny o is doing a lot year around I think. I commonly have jenny o turkey ham in my fridge. while it is the season for whole turkeys jenny o has a product demand to keep up with year around.

 

[cluciano63]

That's true, but even if someone hated both parents, why take Jayme? I'm not reading too much into both parents working at the same employer in this case, only because there are so few employment opportunities available in the area. If LE investigated every person who worked at Jennie O in Barron they probably would have to interview more than half the town. Unfortunately that's not realistic-- to interview someone simply because they worked there. In the Superbike murders case in SC police had a list of customers and Todd Kohlhepp was on that list but was never interviewed. They didn't solve that case until he was caught for other crimes and confessed to the Superbike murders too. I won't be surprised if it turns out to be someone who worked at Jennie O at one point, but that doesn't necessarily mean this was an employment dispute either. Because there are so few jobs in the area and the factory employs 1000's of people not everyone who works there necessarily knew the Closs'. I would not be at all surprised if the perp's name is listed on a list in LE's files for the case (I'm certain they have a list of all employee names) but perhaps they have no way to connect him in any way that makes sense so he has not been interviewed/investigated. Regardless, Jayme being taken still stands out to me as unusual for that type of motive (workplace grievance). I can't seem to make the pieces of the puzzle fit. JMO.

Agree...taking Jayme makes no sense to me in any scenario where she was not the motive.