AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #26

[SeekingJana]

Agree. My brain can not wrap itself around taking a teen girl unless for sexual purposes, probably making her the target. If not the target, another victim shortly thereafter. Her only chance of still being alive, imo, is if she WAS the target.

I agree 100% with your deductive reasoning. The only likely scenario in which she has survived is if she was the intended target all along and keeping her alive was paramount to achieving a long term goal. ( Jaycee Dugard- type case is all that comes to mind; maybe also Ariel Castro, I'm not so sure about his psychopathology because of his suicide before we had all the answers).

As far as we know, cases like Jaycee's, Elizabeth Smart's, and the 3 living survivors of Ariel Castro are extremely rare in the USA. In some parts of the world, not rare at all because children, especially female children, have zero value.

The odds are against a very publicized double murder resulting in a kidnapping with a surviving victim today. There was NO violence to others with the kidnapping survivors I can think of..
This is usually the case, though. A person enters a house to kill. OR, a person enters a house stealthily or stands on a street behind a bush or otherwise gains access to the victim.

When there's been a scenario where two people have been killed and one left alive and unharmed, usually the violence was from within the house and perpetrated by the occupants onto police attempting a hostage rescue.

I can't think of but one other case where there was a mixture of killing two parents, kidnapping their child ( or children), and leaving the child ( children) alive except the Joseph Duncan kidnapping of Shasta and Dylan Groene. From what I've read or heard on TV in Shasta's description of events, DYLAN was Duncan's primary target and Shasta was a secondary victim. Dylan was killed, and I believe Shasta's days on earth were coming to an end when she was recognized and rescued.

I hope so much Jayme is alive and will stay alive until found. In so doing, she will have defied astronomical odds and had a very psychologically disordered captor. The mixture of killing 2 to gather up one and abscond with her ( or him) and keep the youngster alive is extremely disordered.
One last thought- Jayme is on the cusp of having an adult female body vs. a more petite and child- like body. IF the perp. wanted a child-like victim, what then will happen when she grows up normally while in his capture?

The only good hope I see if she's still alive is for more facts to be released so people in the area have more to go on, to look for, to recall seeing at the Wal- Mart or the IHOP recently, or while there, like Shasta's case.

 

[doktor57]

I would like to know if the perp left with Jamey through the front door. Or if he wanted to spare her from having to see her father like that and they left somewhere else.

That would show if there was any compassion.

I'm thinking he probably clubbed her unconscious. He doesn't strike me as a very compassionate guy.

 

[aliensporebomb]

I see what you’re saying, but what’s true for you is not necessarily true for all. I mentioned a few weeks ago what happened to me when I received a late night unknown knock at my door - although I have plenty of weapons and training, I was not armed when I approached the door. Simply put, I did not feel an immediate threat. And luckily I was right, it was just some kids that had hit a deer down the road. You very well might have responded differently, but I don’t think either one of could say how James Closs would respond.

This is why I think it was somewhat socially engineered. Someone may have knocked on their door late at night saying they had hit a deer and needed to use a phone or needed help. James came to the front door and they started trying to get in the door and the rest is sadly history.

 

[aliensporebomb]

I don't think cop or ex cop. But something ex military. Get in, 'get the job done', get out. Calm, collected, prepared and intelligent. And I do think some 'off the grid' guy/doomsday prepper person.

I thought about this too. The fact that they got in and out in seemingly record time seems to indicate someone with a analytical possibly military mindset to get in, get the job done and not let emotions get in the way. The rage involved suggests someone who may be off their meds.

Usually when these things unravel as they usually do people after the fact go "Yeah, he was funny. Quiet. Kept to himself. Had a large gun collection. Wouldn't say hello on the street." Like things that SEEM obvious that the person is off later but people write off because they don't want to think ill of a neighbor or someone who is an acquaintance who in whispered tones is referred to as the town crazy person who may be off their meds. You wonder if it is someone like that.

 

[Maybelline]

This just recently confirms that it does happen and you can hold on to some amount of hope. Here is a link to an article dated December 1st talking about a recent sentencing for one of three young men (well known by the family) that abducted a girl (15 at the time) in Minnesota, who was able to run away at some point. I have attached the link and if you hit a paywall just highlight the entire address bar at the top when you call it up and click “go” in your device, or whatever button you press to execute a command. If you are unable to get the article for any reason, let me know and I will attach the article itself that I took a screenshot of.

First of 3 defendants sentenced for abducting western Minnesota girl who later escaped – Twin Cities

 

[crhedBngr]

Self-delete - posted same thing twice.

 

[crhedBngr]

This just recently confirms that it does happen and you can hold on to some amount of hope. Here is a link to an article dated December 1st talking about a recent sentencing for one of three young men (well known by the family) that abducted a girl (15 at the time) in Minnesota, who was able to run away at some point. I have attached the link and if you hit a paywall just highlight the entire address bar at the top when you call it up and click “go” in your device, or whatever button you press to execute a command. If you are unable to get the article for any reason, let me know and I will attach the article itself that I took a screenshot of.

First of 3 defendants sentenced for abducting western Minnesota girl who later escaped – Twin Cities

I had to pause my adblocking software, and open it in an incognito window, but here's the text I was able to copy:

ALEXANDRIA, Minn. — As family and friends read impact statements at the Friday sentencing of Thomas Barker in Douglas County District Court, his victim sat with her head down, unable to look at the man who kidnapped her.

It was her first time in the courtroom for the Alexandria girl, now 16, who escaped from three men after being held captive for 29 days. She was taken from her home in August 2017, later swimming across part of lake about 20 miles west of Alexandria to escape.

In July, Barker, 33, of Carlos, pleaded guilty to kidnapping, criminal sexual conduct in the first degree with a dangerous weapon and criminal sexual conduct in the first degree causing fear of great bodily harm.

From left, Thomas Barker, Steven Powers and Joshua Holby
Judge Timothy Churchwell sentenced Barker to 25 years in prison. He is also required to register as a sexual offender for the rest of his life, and after his release will be on lifetime probation. When he is to be released from prison, a petition can be filed to have Barker civilly committed, which means if the conditions are met, he would be confined indefinitely.

“It’s hard being in the courtroom,” said the girl’s mother said. “This has been a very long process and we are glad to be done.”

The mother said that along with her daughter and the rest of their family and friends, she wishes he would have gotten a longer sentence.

“We all have a lifetime of dealing with this,” she said.

In a letter written by the victim and read by her mother in court on Friday, she wrote, “Dear Thomas, I think you’re sick. You make me sick to my stomach. My life will never be the same. …”

She said she is always scared someone is going to kidnap her. She said she just wants her happy life back and for people to stop calling her names because it was not her fault for what happened. She said she has bad dreams and doesn’t know whom she can trust.

Mods: Does not contain the victim's name.

 

[Evinrude]

I agree 100% with your deductive reasoning. The only likely scenario in which she has survived is if she was the intended target all along and keeping her alive was paramount to achieving a long term goal. ( Jaycee Dugard- type case is all that comes to mind; maybe also Ariel Castro, I'm not so sure about his psychopathology because of his suicide before we had all the answers).

As far as we know, cases like Jaycee's, Elizabeth Smart's, and the 3 living survivors of Ariel Castro are extremely rare in the USA. In some parts of the world, not rare at all because children, especially female children, have zero value.

The odds are against a very publicized double murder resulting in a kidnapping with a surviving victim today. There was NO violence to others with the kidnapping survivors I can think of..
This is usually the case, though. A person enters a house to kill. OR, a person enters a house stealthily or stands on a street behind a bush or otherwise gains access to the victim.

When there's been a scenario where two people have been killed and one left alive and unharmed, usually the violence was from within the house and perpetrated by the occupants onto police attempting a hostage rescue.

I can't think of but one other case where there was a mixture of killing two parents, kidnapping their child ( or children), and leaving the child ( children) alive except the Joseph Duncan kidnapping of Shasta and Dylan Groene. From what I've read or heard on TV in Shasta's description of events, DYLAN was Duncan's primary target and Shasta was a secondary victim. Dylan was killed, and I believe Shasta's days on earth were coming to an end when she was recognized and rescued.

I hope so much Jayme is alive and will stay alive until found. In so doing, she will have defied astronomical odds and had a very psychologically disordered captor. The mixture of killing 2 to gather up one and abscond with her ( or him) and keep the youngster alive is extremely disordered.
One last thought- Jayme is on the cusp of having an adult female body vs. a more petite and child- like body. IF the perp. wanted a child-like victim, what then will happen when she grows up normally while in his capture?

The only good hope I see if she's still alive is for more facts to be released so people in the area have more to go on, to look for, to recall seeing at the Wal- Mart or the IHOP recently, or while there, like Shasta's case.

This just recently confirms that it does happen and you can hold on to some amount of hope. Here is a link to an article dated December 1st talking about a recent sentencing for one of three young men (well known by the family) that abducted a girl (15 at the time) in Minnesota, who was able to run away at some point. I have attached the link and if you hit a paywall just highlight the entire address bar at the top when you call it up and click “go” in your device, or whatever button you press to execute a command. If you are unable to get the article for any reason, let me know and I will attach the article itself that I took a screenshot of.

First of 3 defendants sentenced for abducting western Minnesota girl who later escaped – Twin Cities

sicko’s.....hope they have a hard time where they are going.

 

[porridgeuk]

https://kstp.com/news/one-month-after-jayme-closs-disappearance-barron-county-community-not-giving-up/51467
Just seen this article where Fiizgerald states he wants hunters to call police if they find “someone was on the property, dug a hole, left clothing behind, a backpack, kids clothing, a gun.”

Interesting that a backpack is included in the list and kids clothing, does this possibly mean that Jayme did take some things from the home with her?

 

[Maybelline]

https://kstp.com/news/one-month-after-jayme-closs-disappearance-barron-county-community-not-giving-up/51467
Just seen this article where Fiizgerald states he wants hunters to call police if they find “someone was on the property, dug a hole, left clothing behind, a backpack, kids clothing, a gun.”

Interesting that a backpack is included in the list and kids clothing, does this possibly mean that Jayme did take some things from the home with her?

My guess is he was just throwing out there ideas of things a person could find that should be turned into the sheriff’s department. Just giving examples basically.

 

[Gardener1850]

This just recently confirms that it does happen and you can hold on to some amount of hope. Here is a link to an article dated December 1st talking about a recent sentencing for one of three young men (well known by the family) that abducted a girl (15 at the time) in Minnesota, who was able to run away at some point. I have attached the link and if you hit a paywall just highlight the entire address bar at the top when you call it up and click “go” in your device, or whatever button you press to execute a command. If you are unable to get the article for any reason, let me know and I will attach the article itself that I took a screenshot of.

First of 3 defendants sentenced for abducting western Minnesota girl who later escaped – Twin Cities

I had to pause my adblocking software, and open it in an incognito window, but here's the text I was able to copy:



Mods: Does not contain the victim's name.

We have a thread for her here: Found Safe - MN - JB, 15, Alexandria, 8 Aug 2017 *Arrests*

 

[Ragnarok]

Online true crime groups, discussion boards seize on Jayme Closs disappearance

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Online true crime groups, discussion boards seize on Jayme Closs disappearance

Fitzgerald said social media can complicate investigations, noting that authorities must look into every tip they receive. Though he appreciates efforts to aid the search for Jayme, he said some tips are too broad and don't further the case. He encouraged people to be as specific as possible.

“A tip that says she’s by a river really doesn’t help us," he said.

Still, Carlson emphasized that police don't want to discourage anyone with important information from reaching out.

"We’ll deal with the stuff that’s not true, but we really, really need to know the stuff that’s true," he said.

 

[JudgeJoe]

This just recently confirms that it does happen and you can hold on to some amount of hope. Here is a link to an article dated December 1st talking about a recent sentencing for one of three young men (well known by the family) that abducted a girl (15 at the time) in Minnesota, who was able to run away at some point. I have attached the link and if you hit a paywall just highlight the entire address bar at the top when you call it up and click “go” in your device, or whatever button you press to execute a command. If you are unable to get the article for any reason, let me know and I will attach the article itself that I took a screenshot of.

First of 3 defendants sentenced for abducting western Minnesota girl who later escaped – Twin Cities

OT: Victim’s impact statement says she’s tired of people calling her names because this wasn’t her fault. Didn’t say where she’s experiencing that CRAP, but would hope others would put a stop to that BS in the swiftest, harshest way legally possible. Kicked off all extra-curricular activities, fired from jobs, etc.

Back on topic... I can’t speak much for hope, but do have some words for “statistics”. They come up in every case. While I think stats are important to consider, I don’t put as much weight on them as some. Seems to me there are more “firsts” these days. The victim above was held by 3 captors. The recent mass shooting in CA had the shooter posting to SM while shooting. A few here have mentioned Jayme’s case seems video game-like. Don’t want to ramble, but these crimes do each seem to have a new, “twist”. Often bolder, more brazen, more violent, more unpredictable, MO. We know violent criminals often “research” other violent crimes while planning their own. No idea how this is relevant to Jayme’s abduction, but feel somehow, that it is. I think there will be some “firsts” in here that fall outside the “stats” box. Again, MO.

 

[megsan]

I think Jayme was taken simply because she had DNA evidence “on” her. They couldn’t just leave her whether she was alive or dead.

 

[Trino]

I thought about this too. The fact that they got in and out in seemingly record time seems to indicate someone with a analytical possibly military mindset to get in, get the job done and not let emotions get in the way. The rage involved suggests someone who may be off their meds.

Usually when these things unravel as they usually do people after the fact go "Yeah, he was funny. Quiet. Kept to himself. Had a large gun collection. Wouldn't say hello on the street." Like things that SEEM obvious that the person is off later but people write off because they don't want to think ill of a neighbor or someone who is an acquaintance who in whispered tones is referred to as the town crazy person who may be off their meds. You wonder if it is someone like that.

I like your analytical possibly military mindset, get the job done quickly, and not let emotions get in the way. Obviously, killing two people, one an unarmed woman, shows no emotion involved. Just do it. Almost like, there will be secondary casualties. It's just part of the operation.

 

[Rosiebones]

Since we cannot and absolutely should not sleuth family, relatives and friends or the victims themselves TOS, it leaves us with a huge gap in information. Many on here, myself included, are leaning toward someone familiar to them and are frustrated because we must wait until LE puts the pieces that they and only they know, together for a big picture. But that is the right way to go.

 

[Curiousobserver]

I think Jayme was taken simply because she had DNA evidence “on” her. They couldn’t just leave her whether she was alive or dead.

I agree they have some DNA that they know is not from one of the three victims. That is why they removed a mattress (the source of the DNA) and why they asked family members for DNA samples: to exclude them. My personal gut feeling is that the neighbors are right about the approximate time; the killer was there for 20-30 minutes, not 5-10, and the motive was primarily abduction and sexual assault. The killer was hoping to have a several hour head start but the 911 call changed his plans. How the killer made a connection to the family I have no idea but it could have been as simple as following them home from somewhere and waiting nearby.

 

[cluciano63]

The reason I have doubts that LE has much to go on is because unlike a murder case, where LE can stay silent for years while they collect evidence, (Pike family i.e.) this is also a missing victim case, possibly still alive. In similar cases (Hannah Anderson, Brittany M. Smith) LE went public with the name of the POI immediately in order to find the missing teen, in both cases murdered family members were found and both girls were located alive.

While past cases do not always help, I do think LE would consider past successful outcomes in how they handle this one. Jmo

 

[cluciano63]

I agree they have some DNA that they know is not from one of the three victims. That is why they removed a mattress (the source of the DNA) and why they asked family members for DNA samples: to exclude them. My personal gut feeling is that the neighbors are right about the approximate time; the killer was there for 20-30 minutes, not 5-10, and the motive was primarily abduction and sexual assault. The killer was hoping to have a several hour head start but the 911 call changed his plans. How the killer made a connection to the family I have no idea but it could have been as simple as following them home from somewhere and waiting nearby.

I doubt they could have known that any visible DNA did not belong to one of the three family members at that point but jmo.