AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #27

[Quill]

Thx, Irmese.
Well stated.

Fight, I would not. And probably could not.

It may also be possible that Jayme "didn't appear to put up any struggle" because she was incapacitated.

a) knocked unconscious by a hit to the head
b) chemically-induced unconsciousness

I thought b) was only from "the movies" and not an MO used at all by current criminals until I read the link below. (oops. Wrong Again!)

Ether Man's Wife Was Victim, Too

Great post. If I may add to it, how about

c) stun gun

 

[WisconsinSleuth02]

Great post. If I may add to it, how about

c) stun gun

A stun gun would cause a lot of sound. The neighbor would probably hear.
This was tested on the JonBenet Ramsey case. Here's a video when they tested that theory.

 

[KLM6]

Im curious about Fitzgeralds communication tactics. Typically news like this case goes through local media outlets. This is the first time I have seen LE use under-the-radar podcast interviews as well as have video chats with tabloids, all while not continuing to talk to the reputable local and national news. The last tweet I can find from Paul Blume, who once was all over this case, is right before Thanksgiving and it was simply a recap of what was already stated. In one interview the sheriff says its important to keep the case focused in the media, so why isnt he doing these types of interviews with more popular sources? Ive always felt he sends subliminal messages in these interviews, but is he utilizing these sources knowing he will reach certain people? Or why? I dont think it would necessarily bother me as much if these interviews were in addition to say a word once in awhile with CBS, Fox, NBC, etc. or even a news personality, like Paul, who was once providing consistency through Twitter. Im also curious about the silence of the families, particularly Jim's, and wish I understood why. If this was my sister, and I truly didnt know what happened or where her child was, I would be pleading with anyone and everyone I could for help. Jmho.

 

[WisconsinSleuth02]

So most stun guns have 1 mil volts.
The guy weighed 215 pounds, so it would put 4,651 volts per pound.
Jayme weighed around 100 pounds, which would be 10,000 volts per pound.
It would likely cause even more pain to Jayme because of the distribution of energy. It would have been enough likely to gain control.

 

[Lillymac]

I want to emphasize this is MY opinion only.

I know theories abound when cases remain unsolved but for me it makes me feel so uncomfortable when the theories turn to blaming the victims especially when there hasn't been one shred or hint to support so many of them.

Someone said the police should come out and tell the public if the family had financial difficulties. WTH? It is inferring this happened due to them having financial difficulties and brought this on themselves. Based on what I ask?

Then some seem to believe 100 pound Jayme should have fought like a raging 600 pound tiger when facing a double brutal murderer who had just shot her parents dead in cold blood? Seriously?

Grown adults both men and women have been kidnapped by suspects and they didnt fight or flee either unfortunately but somehow a tiny 13 year old terrorized and traumatized child should be different?

Squirming 40 pound toddlers arent under the total control of armed cold blooded murderers.

Then I see some say Jayme went willingly even though Fitzgerald has made it very clear he has found no evidence Jayme had a boyfriend of any age and there is no connection between Jayme and anyone online.

I truly dont believe this naive protected child was so savvy she could outsmart over 200 investigators including the FBI experts who are known as the best experts in the world in tracking online and telephone data communication activity.

I respect others have theories in unsolved cases but IMHOO they should have some kind of supportive evidence as a basis.

Most are inferring somehow either Jim did something to bring this about or Jayme was somehow involved.

Of course Jayme went with the murderer. She had no choice. She knew this man is dangerous and evil. She had seen firsthand just how dangerous he is. So many victims have gone with the criminal who kidnapped them thinking if they did so the kidnapper would spare their life if they complied to all commands. Sadly in most cases the ones abducted wound up murdered but some were able to talk the suspect into letting them go although it doesnt happen often.

No one came to 'save' Jayme. Not one person has said one unkind word against Jayme's parents. Quite the contrary. Family members said Jayme and Denise were inseparable and James was Jayme's knight in shining armor. No this evil came to destroy goodness and replace it with his evil wickedness. Imo

It is obvious to me all three victims were all inside of their home when this occurred. The evidence at the scene showed that to be true because they said Jim answered the door.

That would be easy to determine for the police on the scene by the position of Jim's body when found. He was found inside of his home with his feet closest to the inside doorway. The frontal shot would propel his body backwards landing on his back with his feet closer to the door. So I am puzzled why some insist he was coming home entering through the door when none of the officers have said that.

I don't know why the theories in this case have made me so depressed but it has. So much so at times I have had to walk away and not read for awhile.

Imo none of the three victims are to blame for what happened to them.

I havent seen any evidence released by the proper authorities that has supported any of the three brought this on.

Sorry for the rant but I just had to express how all of it has made me feel for these three victims. Its heartbreaking and I hope none of the families ever read what has been assumed about their dear loved ones.

I will take another much needed break again.

Take care.

Jmhoo and nothing more.

So you're thinking it was random??

 

[Quill]

A stun gun would cause a lot of sound. The neighbor would probably hear.
This was tested on the JonBenet Ramsey case. Here's a video when they tested that theory.

Very interesting. The difference here though is that the nearest neighbors were 500 yards away and inside their home. I don't think they could have heard that, JMO. When I was a teenager, our closest neighbors were about that distance and we couldn't hear a thing from their place unless a gun was shot or if an ATV was coming up their drive toward ours as it neared the road. They were also trying to make a point in the video that you would not be able to subdue someone with a stun gun, and admittedly, I have zero experience with those devices. However, Abby Hernandez has lived to tell about her abduction and 9 month captivity and her abductor did use a similar device to subdue her in his truck.

 

[SharonNeedles]

If you're planning to kill two adults and abduct a 13 year old, the 'best' time to do so would be when everyone is asleep.
Totally unexpected, no time to call 911 or grab a gun.

What if the shots the neighbours heard around 00.31 were test shots to see if the Closses were sound asleep.
If lights would have gone out at say 00.05 and you fire two loud shots half an our later and the lights stay off, you could assume people are asleep, or at least could have fallen asleep again by the time you show up at their door. Pretending to be hunting is also a great way to check things out.

Not true. A key elemement in a planned assault is identifying and eliminating any threats as quickly as possible. Entering a dark and unfamiliar home where the primary threat (James) may have weapons available and time to react is much riskier. I do think this was planned and eliminating James right away was part of that plan.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Not true. A key elemement in a planned assault is identifying and eliminating any threats as quickly as possible. Entering a dark and unfamiliar home where the primary threat (James) may have weapons available and time to react is much riskier. I do think this was planned and eliminating James right away was part of that plan.

Which is triggering the notion that this was someone with skill; not a novice teenager. Had a plan, and executed it to the result he wanted.
Not a novice.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[SharonNeedles]

Which is triggering the notion that this was someone with skill; not a novice teenager. Had a plan, and executed it to the result he wanted.
Not a novice.

Amateur opinion and speculation

Actually I do believe it’s just as likely as not that the assailants were novice - it takes no particular skill to pull it off at all. I believe 100% that this was well planned and carried out by three people, one driver/lookout and two assailants. If there’s any skill / experience / training involved I believe that’s in the planning.

And personally, I get a strong feeling that the assailants in the house had no idea that Jayme was there and had no idea what they were supposed to do. Realizing that a 911 call had been placed forced them to make an immediate decision.

 

[waterfalllady]

I agree but I just dont like that people keep making her out like this frail helpless person...her strength is the only thing thats going to keep her alive/help her escape /bring her home...we dont know the circumstances of why she left with the perp or how she left with the perp.. but people need to realize its harder to pick up an unwilling person and put them in a car than people are making it out to be. 100 pounds is small but not so small that it would be impossible for her to be diffiucult

Respectfully, I think you are not considering the huge effect trauma has on people. I've said this before, but I witnessed a horrible crime when I was 12 or 13. I just completly froze. Anyone would have been able to do anything to me because my mind just left my body. Luckily the person who did it wasn't interested in hurting children. I don't think the lack of evidence of a fight is anything. He also had a gun and killed her parents. If she did have conscious control of herself she was terrified.

 

[Rubiconbob]

Im curious about Fitzgeralds communication tactics. Typically news like this case goes through local media outlets. This is the first time I have seen LE use under-the-radar podcast interviews as well as have video chats with tabloids, all while not continuing to talk to the reputable local and national news. The last tweet I can find from Paul Blume, who once was all over this case, is right before Thanksgiving and it was simply a recap of what was already stated. In one interview the sheriff says its important to keep the case focused in the media, so why isnt he doing these types of interviews with more popular sources? Ive always felt he sends subliminal messages in these interviews, but is he utilizing these sources knowing he will reach certain people? Or why? I dont think it would necessarily bother me as much if these interviews were in addition to say a word once in awhile with CBS, Fox, NBC, etc. or even a news personality, like Paul, who was once providing consistency through Twitter. Im also curious about the silence of the families, particularly Jim's, and wish I understood why. If this was my sister, and I truly didnt know what happened or where her child was, I would be pleading with anyone and everyone I could for help. Jmho.

I agree completely...

The latest from Fitzgerald... was that an actual interview?? Or series of prepared statements from both sides.. he doesn’t seem to be doing ton of interviews if any..

If u follow first 24 hours.. calling fbi than later 4 teams going over Crime scene..
Watch his old cases.. I think he’s good.. don’t think perps left him much.. and might take 6/10 months to get break or somebody to talk.

Ohio was 8 people killed... took them over a year.. had to be 5x the evidence in this case

 

[DutchTreat]

Not true. A key elemement in a planned assault is identifying and eliminating any threats as quickly as possible.Entering a dark and unfamiliar home where the primary threat (James) may have weapons available and time to react is much riskier. I do think this was planned and eliminating James right away was part of that plan.

Not true. A key elemement in a planned assault is identifying and eliminating any threats as quickly as possible. Entering a dark and unfamiliar home where the primary threat (James) may have weapons available and time to react is much riskier. I do think this was planned and eliminating James right away was part of that plan.

Who says it's unfamiliar. It might very well have been someone who knew the Closs family. And even might have been at their home at some point in time.
And there is also night vision gear. I wonder if the door usually would have been unlocked. If so, it could have been a different scenario, in which the perp would have gotten into the parents bedroom totally unnoticed.

Does anyone know what the hunters who hunt at night use? Do they have some sort of night vision equipment?

 

[Andreee]

I agree but I just dont like that people keep making her out like this frail helpless person...her strength is the only thing thats going to keep her alive/help her escape /bring her home...we dont know the circumstances of why she left with the perp or how she left with the perp.. but people need to realize its harder to pick up an unwilling person and put them in a car than people are making it out to be. 100 pounds is small but not so small that it would be impossible for her to be difficu

So if someone broke into your house, shot and killed two family members, and told you to come with them, you'd fight them? I think you'd do whatever you thought might help you to survive the situation.

Exactly, and of course! No, Jayme was not frail, but realistically she would not be difficult for a bigger male with a friggin' gun to subdue!

 

[Andreee]

You're absolutely entitled to your opinion, as am I. I love reading opinions that differ from mine; it keeps me on my toes. If I didn't, this platform wouldn't work for me. I was just pointing out (my opinion) that many of these questions were answered and put away pretty far back in the threads. Most were satisfied with those answers, but you don't have to be. My opinion is that its a rabbit hole that has led to speculation that has no basis in fact even though others have tried explaining how the school system in that area is organized. I think several posts related to mental functioning and similar issues might have been deleted on those earlier threads because it went off the deep end. I don't want the thread to get shut down as so many tend to at this stage. I am a big advocate of the scroll & roll, but it has become monotonous for the few of us remaining who have been here since Day 1. We are understandably at the "hash and re-hash" stage of this case. Its the natural order of following cases like these. It happens every time when there is little to info coming in from LE. Keeping the thread alive is important, though, so whatever it takes, I guess.

Yes, yes and yes!

 

[rosesfromangels]

Actually I do believe it’s just as likely as not that the assailants were novice - it takes no particular skill to pull it off at all. I believe 100% that this was well planned and carried out by three people, one driver/lookout and two assailants. If there’s any skill / experience / training involved I believe that’s in the planning.

And personally, I get a strong feeling that the assailants in the house had no idea that Jayme was there and had no idea what they were supposed to do. Realizing that a 911 call had been placed forced them to make an immediate decision.

If there were three, that is most definitely a planned act as you suggest. In your theory, what do you speculate as motive?
Thank you for expanding my thinking.

 

[daisy6441]

Im curious about Fitzgeralds communication tactics. Typically news like this case goes through local media outlets. This is the first time I have seen LE use under-the-radar podcast interviews as well as have video chats with tabloids, all while not continuing to talk to the reputable local and national news. The last tweet I can find from Paul Blume, who once was all over this case, is right before Thanksgiving and it was simply a recap of what was already stated. In one interview the sheriff says its important to keep the case focused in the media, so why isnt he doing these types of interviews with more popular sources? Ive always felt he sends subliminal messages in these interviews, but is he utilizing these sources knowing he will reach certain people? Or why? I dont think it would necessarily bother me as much if these interviews were in addition to say a word once in awhile with CBS, Fox, NBC, etc. or even a news personality, like Paul, who was once providing consistency through Twitter. Im also curious about the silence of the families, particularly Jim's, and wish I understood why. If this was my sister, and I truly didnt know what happened or where her child was, I would be pleading with anyone and everyone I could for help. Jmho.

Maybe they feel the killer would be listening to that form of information and its a tactic?

 

[daisy6441]

Which is triggering the notion that this was someone with skill; not a novice teenager. Had a plan, and executed it to the result he wanted.
Not a novice.

Amateur opinion and speculation

You ever play SOCOM? Most of the game is planning an attack and carrying it out. Even missions that require you to extract a person.

 

[Rubiconbob]

Actually I do believe it’s just as likely as not that the assailants were novice - it takes no particular skill to pull it off at all. I believe 100% that this was well planned and carried out by three people, one driver/lookout and two assailants. If there’s any skill / experience / training involved I believe that’s in the planning.

And personally, I get a strong feeling that the assailants in the house had no idea that Jayme was there and had no idea what they were supposed to do. Realizing that a 911 call had been placed forced them to make an immediate decision.

First thought wouldn’t be perps has no idea .. but could be possibility... if your from Barron or live there long you’d have to know that’s no police time and quick 30 second drive out of town from Closs house..

Could see teenagers / druggie / or any perp and see this being simple robbery.. James doesn’t obey perp or flinches .. 2 quick shots and robbery messed up.. would explain yelling on 911 tape.. if it’s Double shotgun they coulda been done with ammo..

 

[MommaK43]

I’ve been following this feed for a bit and finally made an acct. I have a a simple question bc I’ve seen/heard conflicting reports so please excuse me if these have already been answered.
Was dad shot thru the storm door, actual door?

 

[OhThatVictoria]

If there were three, that is most definitely a planned act as you suggest. In your theory, what do you speculate as motive?
Thank you for expanding my thinking.

It’s hard to fathom one person feeling the need to kill two people, much less three people committed to an execution and abduction? I could see it if this was an abduction for a hefty ransom but that’s just not the case here. It wasn’t a robbery. The more people involved, the more likely it is to get caught (loose lips sink ships and all that).