AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #28

[daisy6441]

Can you see the pictures of the door posted here in several posts?

Looks like the framing of the house with the prehung door removed .

 

[human]

You can't kick a door in on the hinge side. If the deadbolt wasn't locked it would be so much easier to kick open and wouldn't hurt the door frame much if at all.

Can you see the pictures of the door posted here in several posts?

 

[human]

Here is a video of installing a prehung exterior door.
The wood that is broken is clearly the door, not the frame

 

[JaneEyre]

I think the cabinet placement is really strange. Has anyone ever seen such a placement right by a front door? And the snowmen right in a walking pathway. Makes no sense.

If James fell, how did he not fall on any of those items? Where would the door fall? In or out of the house?

Wouldn’t the door fall into the house?

Where were the bullet casings? In or outside?

Could LE have moved some of these things?

If the carpet was removed, they would have to move things.

Does anyone know when this door pic was taken in relationship to the carpet being removed?

I saw pictures of carpet removal, but that could have been bedroom carpet

I have a very open floor plan that I despise. I want a partial wall between two of the rooms. Not up for construction right now, I purposely sought out a large curio cabinet to place in this space. It’s not up against a wall - it IS the wall for now.

Point is, people do things that might seem odd for their own reasons and comfort. Another thing I’ve done that probably others find backwards is that I’ve filled the full wall bookcase in the living room in the back of the house with my most beautiful books, leaving the full wall bookcase in the first room you enter filled with the left-overs. Most people would want the entry room to contain the beautiful ones. But these give me comfort and relax me. They are how I know I am home (I unpacked these before unpacking my clothes when we moved). So I want them surrounding me where I live and relax - the living room.

So perhaps this piece of furniture was placed strategically either for practical purposes like my first example, or sentimental reasons like my second.

 

[daisy6441]

Here is a video of installing a prehung exterior door.
The wood that is broken is clearly the door, not the frame

I have seen doors hung plenty of times and it looks like they took the whole frame and door off. It was gone before reporters started taking pictures.

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

Just crazy that someone,or someone's can get in, commit double homicide,and dissapear in a flash with victims daughter without a trace. In such a small town, that's like a fishbowl.

 

[daisy6441]

I have a very open floor plan that I despise. I want a partial wall between two of the rooms. Not up for construction right now, I purposely sought out a large curio cabinet to place in this space. It’s not up against a wall - it IS the wall for now.

Point is, people do things that might seem odd for their own reasons and comfort. Another thing I’ve done that probably others find backwards is that I’ve filled the full wall bookcase in the living room in the back of the house with my most beautiful books, leaving the full wall bookcase in the first room you enter filled with the left-overs. Most people would want the entry room to contain the beautiful ones. But these give me comfort and relax me. They are how I know I am home (I unpacked these before unpacking my clothes when we moved). So I want them surrounding me where I live and relax - the living room.

So perhaps this piece of furniture was placed strategically either for practical purposes like my first example, or sentimental reasons like my second.

Looks like they had it there as catch all.

 

[1987]

we don't know how aged the door might have been, maybe none like almost new or lots like was put on there when house was built or anything in between. I broke my door in two places because I came home and family member had broken door on accident and I was going to show them on another area of the door that doors didn't break that easy, well I broke two more spots and that was the end of me thinking I knew anything about doors. I replaced with a steal door because wood can look fine and break super easy.

 

[ilovechili]

My big thing I continually come back to is where James was and even where the family was that day and in fact the past few days.

It seems to me James' whereabouts are avoided entirely and never confirmed in a definite manner and certainly not by time frame. We have a lot of the time frame regarding Jayme and Denise at least with regard to the party.

Another reason it bothers me is just say Denise and Jayme stopped at Dairy Queen on the way home or even on the way to the party, grabbing a cake for her sister's grandchild because it is on her way and they seem like that type of family, to help the others host or throw a party. Please note, I know nothing about the DQ, I am just using it as an example just as I could use Kwik Trip or the grocery store, the Dollar Store or McDonald's....

Now let's just say I was in the same place with my similar aged daughter if I had one about five minutes ahead of Denise and Jayme. I never even saw them nor was I in the business at the same exact time. But now let's say a man approached and talked to my daughter that made me feel quite uncomfortable even though he did nothing really wrong but maybe was just a bit odd. Maybe it is a stranger or maybe the clerk seems to know him so we dismiss it even more. We leave, go home, nothing happened and we are safe and it leaves the memory as unimportant. For no reason would we connect or relate this to Denise and Jayme as at no point in the investigation have ever been told they were even in that business.

Now fast forward at least 24 hours and longer probably for many people, or people not from the area before we hear about this. And we know the Amber Alert took some time. Yet it is never said Jim stopped here, Jayme and Denise stopped there, just turn in any tips. Many people do not want to bother if they think their tip may be silly, others know nothing is private and maybe do not want to appear to be a sycophant or a fool, etc. AND they may dismiss it as not important OR because again, they have no idea it could relate, they do not report it. In the beginning my initial guess for a long time was the party was in Rusk County over near maybe Denise's or James' family members or even elsewhere. If I recall correctly, we did not even know for which side.

If one wants to jog someone's memory OR to have them realize what they basically forgot about may have been important it would help to hear they stopped at this business, etc. when one has a missing child. No area, no vehicle, no direction traveled, no timeline. It is just odd to me.

That is one example of many I could think of where the people may not have seen the victims nor even been in the place anywhere at all near the same time as the victims but it could be significant, etc. It could be a car you passed, a couple arguing in the parking lot that you would not have connected to anything, again an odd man at the DQ, etc.

To me, the longer that information is not shared, the less chance someone will have a fresh memory on what day it was, or how exactly it went, etc. I mean just look at the neighbors with the gunshots and that was just hours later but apparently, they were wrong with their memory and account...

This is one of my biggest hang ups. I cannot come up with too many reasons not to share this or how it could negatively affect the case and it very well could have or still could help it. All that I can figure is it plays in and they do know something big we do not know and Lord, I hope so.

Friday was a day off school, where was Jayme? What did the family do Saturday?

I know some will say it was said James was at work but that point has never quite been cemented nor solidified. We also heard the sheriff say he was unsure about Jayme's phone and we later found out it was plugged in in the kitchen. I do not think that was missed in the initial investigation.

This in no way is a knock or insult of law enforcement; I am simply saying this information is pretty vague and I can only figure it is intentional and even perhaps for a very good reason. I just know I am not very familiar with Rusk County for instance but spent days trying to think of who lived over there that I could think of, what businesses existed, etc. and who may have seen something strange.

It is not any duty of law enforcement to inform the public of an investigation and there are really important reasons they do not and I get that. Which, to me, is why this information not being provided seems significant.

Does anyone else feel this way and understand what I mean? It is a point I cannot get past and a big one to me.

Sorry for the very longwinded post. I am fairly confident I broke no rules this time

 

[human]

James is on the floor as LE can see his feet.
Are the bullet casings in the house or are they on the porch?
I am guessing inside or LE would not have suicide, would they?
If inside, the perp must have shot James after going into the house?
If James was shot as soon as the perp saw him through the window in the door, the casings would be outside.
I have to think that the casings were inside or LE would have not thought suicide.
The perp was in the house then when he shot James.
Is there a place in the house where James could have seen who was at the door before he went to it?
I would try to look before I walked to the door. I would think they heard and saw the car drive up but maybe not

 

[1987]

James is on the floor as LE can see his feet.
Are the bullet casings in the house or are they on the porch?
I am guessing inside or LE would not have suicide, would they?
If inside, the perp must have shot James after going into the house?
If James was shot as soon as the perp saw him through the window in the door, the casings would be outside.
I have to think that the casings were inside or LE would have not thought suicide.
The perp was in the house then when he shot James.
Is there a place in the house where James could have seen who was at the door before he went to it?
I would try to look before I walked to the door. I would think they heard and saw the car drive up but maybe not

where casings fell could depend on type of firearm. say a semi auto 9mm would eject its own casing right away all In one motion, but say a pump shotgun and it would eject its casing when the pump action was used to load next shell, or a revolver and the empties would just be all dumped out before reload.

 

[daisy6441]

James is on the floor as LE can see his feet.
Are the bullet casings in the house or are they on the porch?
I am guessing inside or LE would not have suicide, would they?
If inside, the perp must have shot James after going into the house?
If James was shot as soon as the perp saw him through the window in the door, the casings would be outside.
I have to think that the casings were inside or LE would have not thought suicide.
The perp was in the house then when he shot James.
Is there a place in the house where James could have seen who was at the door before he went to it?
I would try to look before I walked to the door. I would think they heard and saw the car drive up but maybe not

He could have been moving towards the door when it was breached.

 

[Mom24]

a few things about door frames and kicking in doors. It really doesn't take much to kick in a door, because the door isn't the weakest point, it's the frame itself where the latch is. When you go out your front door look at the latch setting, it's been drilled out to catch the door latch as you close it so it's weaker. Also, where the hinges are is another place where the door frame is weakened. A door frame is merely a 2 by 4 that's been nailed into the frame of the house, and while it holds the door in place, if you hit it, it will splinter. I've seen the wind grab a storm door and literally snap it so hard that it splinters the door frame, so if the wind can do that (and I'm not talking hurricane force winds), than a good well placed kick can do the same.
What people get stuck on is the door. They wonder how someone can kick in a solid door or a steel door. Answer is, you can't. But you can splinter that two by four door frame in areas where it's been drilled out for door hardware and may only be 3/4inches thick.
What we do know, however it happened, is what LE has said, the door was kicked in.

 

[JnRyan]

Wait...but how does that mean perp wasn't a hunter? Could've hunted in the past and could've hunted after the crime. This person definitely had knowledge of firearms and how to shoot to kill. Could be a hunter, could be someone with a police or military background.

Contrary to what people believe many in the military are not as proficient with firearms as the movies and TV would have you believe. Overall the Marines and Coast Guard, both small services by comparison, receive a lot of training. Most soldiers receive training in the M-4, and M-249 and the M-240 but only familiarization with a handgun and shotgun. I was in the Navy and in 25+ years I fired less 400 rounds over that time and only 5 of those rounds were with the M-16. (Off duty, I've fired a personal handgun more than 400 rounds on a civilian range in one month.) Air Force is about the same. One of my first bosses in the Navy never fired a gun in his basic training and he retired with 22 years of service never having fired a gun. Another boss stated he fired 30 rounds from a .45 in basic and never fired a gun again in almost 30 years. And neither one was not a lawyer or a doctor or other such staff officer.

 

[Rosiebones]

a few things about door frames and kicking in doors. It really doesn't take much to kick in a door, because the door isn't the weakest point, it's the frame itself where the latch is. When you go out your front door look at the latch setting, it's been drilled out to catch the door latch as you close it so it's weaker. Also, where the hinges are is another place where the door frame is weakened. A door frame is merely a 2 by 4 that's been nailed into the frame of the house, and while it holds the door in place, if you hit it, it will splinter. I've seen the wind grab a storm door and literally snap it so hard that it splinters the door frame, so if the wind can do that (and I'm not talking hurricane force winds), than a good well placed kick can do the same.
What people get stuck on is the door. They wonder how someone can kick in a solid door or a steel door. Answer is, you can't. But you can splinter that two by four door frame in areas where it's been drilled out for door hardware and may only be 3/4inches thick.
What we do know, however it happened, is what LE has said, the door was kicked in.

Is it possible then (never having seen a kicked in door before) that the door could have been kicked in so violently that it hit JC and knocked him down or at least stunned him?

 

[Mom24]

He could have been moving towards the door when it was breached.

Here's the thing, it's after midnight, you have to get up in the morning so you're asleep in bed. By that time, probably deep asleep. If someone came crashing into your home, how long would it take you to rouse and then realize that someone has crashed in through your front door and is in your home?
This is what trips me up. This didn't happen at 6pm, it happened after lights were out, people were in bed and most likely asleep. Even if I heard a large noise and I was deep in slumber, it would take me at least a few moments to orient myself to what was going on. To then charge into a room and confront someone? I don't think I'd do that. You'd want to take a moment to assess things, grab your phone, dial 911, look for a protective weapon.
So was James in bed? Was he sleeping on the couch? Was he still awake watching TV? And what about Jayme? Wouldn't she have been asleep? Wouldn't most kids look to hide? In a closet? Run to their parent? She's 13, she's just been jarred awake. I've had teens, you wake them from a deep sleep and they stand there muddled for a few minutes.
So why would James have been at the front door? Do you sit by your front door all night? Wouldn't it make more sense if he'd been shot in his bed?
There's just things that don't make sense.

 

[Mom24]

Is it possible then (never having seen a kicked in door before) that the door could have been kicked in so violently that it hit JC and knocked him down or at least stunned him?

Possibly, but why would he be standing by his door after midnight?

 

[1987]

IMO we don't know enough to even know what we don't know in this case.

 

[ilovechili]

Yes, this is my question also. If there is a case in the news that we think has some possible connections due to the timing, location , or circumstances can we not mention it here ? Trying to clarify...TY.

Some of them seem to remain so maybe in each single post we have to tie it back again somehow or show how we think it relates? Just guessing. I am a newbie and have read the rules and am the type who abides. I also, before I ever joined, read every post and there are tons and it took me a long time over time. I thought I had a good understanding of what could be said but maybe I was seeing some before they were later deleted for the same reasons and that is why I thought it was okay.

 

[daisy6441]

Here's the thing, it's after midnight, you have to get up in the morning so you're asleep in bed. By that time, probably deep asleep. If someone came crashing into your home, how long would it take you to rouse and then realize that someone has crashed in through your front door and is in your home?
This is what trips me up. This didn't happen at 6pm, it happened after lights were out, people were in bed and most likely asleep. Even if I heard a large noise and I was deep in slumber, it would take me at least a few moments to orient myself to what was going on. To then charge into a room and confront someone? I don't think I'd do that. You'd want to take a moment to assess things, grab your phone, dial 911, look for a protective weapon.
So was James in bed? Was he sleeping on the couch? Was he still awake watching TV? And what about Jayme? Wouldn't she have been asleep? Wouldn't most kids look to hide? In a closet? Run to their parent? She's 13, she's just been jarred awake. I've had teens, you wake them from a deep sleep and they stand there muddled for a few minutes.
So why would James have been at the front door? Do you sit by your front door all night? Wouldn't it make more sense if he'd been shot in his bed?
There's just things that don't make sense.

No telling how many kicks it took. Denise might have woken him. Maybe they stay up watching tv like my husband and I do after the kids go to bed. I lay awake with my phone, lately trying to catch up on this thread.