AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #28

[ilovechili]

Just catching up on this today. Interesting post on the Jennie O plant. Makes me wonder how thorough their background checks are. I wonder if they do drug tests on part-time employees? With all the meth heads and sex offenders in the area, I would hope they would do a background check AND drug test on ALL employees (full time and part time). I worked in an office and they did a background test and a drug test! A co-worker had an old DUI on their record and that person was suspended for two days for "investigation purposes" before they were allowed back to work!! This was because they did not list it as a criminal offense when hired since the DUI was so old. For such a small town, Barron has a high rate of crime, meth heads and sex offenders. From the outside, it looks so serene and nice.

I posted some of that and was talking back when. In no way do I know how it is handled nowadays. And in no way is it meant at the corporation or anyone; I just think, as many know in any area, that considering all things, when one has a factory and employees turn over and come from all over, and crime nowadays, and people have looked up the crime in the area, it can probably be safely assumed that it probably does go on. Those that do not do such things can also be very naive to it, and so can the employer. Food for thought though.

 

[bellyup]

Just catching up on this today. Interesting post on the Jennie O plant. Makes me wonder how thorough their background checks are. I wonder if they do drug tests on part-time employees? With all the meth heads and sex offenders in the area, I would hope they would do a background check AND drug test on ALL employees (full time and part time). I worked in an office and they did a background test and a drug test! A co-worker had an old DUI on their record and that person was suspended for two days for "investigation purposes" before they were allowed back to work!! This was because they did not list it as a criminal offense when hired since the DUI was so old. For such a small town, Barron has a high rate of crime, meth heads and sex offenders. From the outside, it looks so serene and nice.

"Applicants for employment will be tested after a conditional job offer has been extended."

"Team Members can be tested for "reasonable cause" such as odor of alcohol or marijuana, attendance, performance, and behavior issues at work."

The above is from their application. It sounds like they test on hire and suspicion. So routine or regular ongoing testing doesn't seem to be a thing (unless you are a driver).

To note; It does not say anything about background checks nor does the application even ask if you've ever been convicted of anything. Which IMO (and based on seeing records on some of the employees) they are a felony-friendly employer.

 

[ilovechili]

"Applicants for employment will be tested after a conditional job offer has been extended."

"Team Members can be tested for "reasonable cause" such as odor of alcohol or marijuana, attendance, performance, and behavior issues at work."

The above is from their application. It sounds like they test on hire and suspicion. So routine or regular ongoing testing doesn't seem to be a thing (unless you are a driver).

To note; It does not say anything about background checks nor does the application even ask if you've ever been convicted of anything. Which IMO (and based on seeing records on some of the employees) they are a felony-friendly employer.

And then there are temp agencies who is who the PT I believe was employed through. Not saying anyone did anything, or that there are not those that may do some drugs in their private lives, just that it is a big plant, a number of employees and a very varied background of many, and a number of trucks, etc. probably in and out so it is not far fetched to think the answer may lie there. imho.

 

[ilovechili]

Great point!

That makes a whole lot of sense. Sudden and intentional. It sure fits being Sunday night at that hour.

 

[Trino]

My own theory on this case is that Jayme was the target all the time, and that it might be someone connected to James' hunting group. The Sheriff has said that he believes James and Denise were killed instantly, which suggests someone used to handling a gun. A hunter can take out an animal pretty swiftly, so i would imagine they can do the same to a human too.

Maybe James had invited the group back for a beer at sometime after a hunting session? The perp takes a liking (for want of a better word) to Jayme, and over a course of weeks/months formulates a plan to take her. He knows where they live. it's isolated, knows the layout of the property and maybe even knows James locks his guns away after a shoot? He chooses a quiet Sunday night, gets James to answer the door somehow (or kicks it in), kills James and Denise and takes Jayme - mission accomplished in 4 minutes.

I'm not sure where the 911 call fits into this but i'm working on it. All MOO of course.

Hunting season had not started when this happened. Starts mid-November.

 

[cj1132]

Most posters have concluded that Jayme was the target. IF so, if, if... the killer didn't simply go to the house, thinking maybe there was a young girl there. IMO there was prior contact. Three possibilities:
1. Stalking. It does not appear this is the case because the sheriff has not identified cars hanging around before the incident.
2. Face to face contact. Jayme was 13, at an age where constant supervision is not the usual mode of operation. We have previously posted our errors in judgment at that age, and that could be the case here. Did anyone see Jayme talking to someone perhaps after school, or did Jayme go to all x-country practices, per schedule? How often was she alone?
3. Online conact. What kind of a person was Jayme? Did she spend a lot of time online?

IMO the killer, if he targeted Jayme, knew her from somewhere previously. Where? How? Surely someone - a classmate perhaps - saw something.

After the first couple weeks, I started to feel that Jayme was not the target and I feel that way more strongly now. Sadly, I think she was collateral damage.

 

[Confusion]

I've been trying to think of where he could have gone other than the casino to get off the roads and possibly get cleaned up some, without leaving Jayme alone in the car. The one place I came up with is the park in Turtle Lake, which is right off highway 8. I'm not sure how it is now, but I know that years ago their restrooms were open overnight. He wouldn't have had to drive past the casino, because it's a block or two before it, and he could have gone back east on 8 when he left there. Then again, I'm not even positive that the park is still there if the casino has expanded at all in the past few years. MOO

 

[Rubiconbob]

Earlier post brought up Barron County underbelly problems..arrest reports in 60 mile radius are pretty stunning..would think volume of drug crimes would be for larger city...some of it you would think has to be fake... sadly... no...wouldn’t stun me if wrong house hit or payback for an arrest..like was mentioned..but if that’s case.. why take jayme..


Wisconsin woman accused of trading sex with children for drugs and cash

 

[retiredrickyinCO]

After the first couple weeks, I started to feel that Jayme was not the target and I feel that way more strongly now. Sadly, I think she was collateral damage.

I have always felt that way that it was one or both of the parents that were targeted and not Jayme. When you go to the door with a loaded gun you mean business and there is usually some vengeance/revenge. I also don't think it was on any fault of the parents but possibly more of what they knew. It could even be something such as road rage or a lovers triangle but those would seem quite remote as far as I'm concerned. I don't believe it was random, casino, robbery or mistaken identity. I also don't believe the sex trafficking theory. You go to the house at that hour when you expect them all to be home. Taking Jaymee could be because he had physical contact with the perps (DNA) or even once the 911 call happened they might have thought of using her as a hostage in case they ran into LE. But until we have more of a definite purpose of this crime that is my opinion. But it might only take one or two new facts released from the sheriff for me to change my way of thinking completely.

 

[Ms Buffyton]

Also, just reviewing the DM article again that says "According to the family Denise and Jayme were "inseparable" but there was a certain disconnect between James and the rest of the family." (Daily Mail Exclusive 12/6/18) In separate interviews the brother said he had a "gut feeling" and the Aunt said she thought it appeared to be "planned". Hoping for a break of some sort in this case. For all we know, LE may have some confirmed DNA and are putting this puzzle together. The days are now becoming months.

 

[MyBelle]

Most posters have concluded that Jayme was the target. IF so, if, if... the killer didn't simply go to the house, thinking maybe there was a young girl there. IMO there was prior contact. Three possibilities:
1. Stalking. It does not appear this is the case because the sheriff has not identified cars hanging around before the incident.
2. Face to face contact. Jayme was 13, at an age where constant supervision is not the usual mode of operation. We have previously posted our errors in judgment at that age, and that could be the case here. Did anyone see Jayme talking to someone perhaps after school, or did Jayme go to all x-country practices, per schedule? How often was she alone?
3. Online conact. What kind of a person was Jayme? Did she spend a lot of time online?

IMO the killer, if he targeted Jayme, knew her from somewhere previously. Where? How? Surely someone - a classmate perhaps - saw something.

This case reminds me of the one where the older male teacher kidnapped, transported cross country and concealed his student for several months. They were finally found. I hope LE is fully investigating those who worked at her previous school. JMO

 

[daisy6441]

I've been trying to think of where he could have gone other than the casino to get off the roads and possibly get cleaned up some, without leaving Jayme alone in the car. The one place I came up with is the park in Turtle Lake, which is right off highway 8. I'm not sure how it is now, but I know that years ago their restrooms were open overnight. He wouldn't have had to drive past the casino, because it's a block or two before it, and he could have gone back east on 8 when he left there. Then again, I'm not even positive that the park is still there if the casino has expanded at all in the past few years. MOO

That is a good idea. But wouldn't home be as good a place as any? Unless this person lives with parents or someone they think might talk? Or had to drive a while.

 

[Irmese]

It is a bit of a change but to add to your comment, I have often wondered where the neighbors were until 11:30 that night. In no way am I accusing the neighbors, I am saying I am in the age range of mid 50s and most of us are not the biggest night owls by that age or if we are, it is at home. The area there, other than bars or the casino, would not have most people out to that hour on a Sunday night as pretty much shown to us by very few vehicles seen on the way to the crime scene by LE. Even a family gathering, most would not be there until 11 p.m. on a Sunday. . grandkids have school the next day, people have work, etc. A thought I had and it may be far fetched but let's say the neighbors were at the casino. They won or upset someone, could be a stranger, could be someone that knew them that knew it was just them, no children at home. Someone followed them from a bit of a distance down Highway 8. They see their blinker and them turning into a driveway (from a distance) and as they get closer, they look for a driveway, see the Closses and pull in. They see lights on possibly (Jim still up?), think they have the right house and head for the door. No idea wrong house or Jayme home. Again, I am not accusing them of anything, just saying, it could be something that simple, and mistaken. And Jayme was not expected at all. Thoughts anyone?

Were the neighbors out that night? I don't remember reading that they were. I'm also mid-fifties, hubby works so he goes to bed about 10-11 PM and back up at 4:30 AM. I typically stay up later, often until 1:00 AM or later and up about 6:30 AM. I am a night owl, even though I try to go to bed early. Still many older people like to watch the news before going to bed.

 

[Irmese]

what never made sense for me was that they said LE told them their clock was seven minutes off. It strikes me as very odd that they weren't aware their clock was wrong and had to be told. Sensationalist media do much harm to ongoing investigations when they pay for stories that are misleading. JMO

A lot of people set the BR alarm clock a few minutes fast, but their clock could just run a little fast. I'm not worried about the seven minutes difference. I think they were correct in what they reported because she also said she went outside about 1 AM and heard nothing. She didn't say that she and her hubby heard the shots and she got up to go outside right then. She said she often has trouble sleeping, so I think that she had lain there for 20+ minutes then got up again.

 

[singlemom]

some pretty bizarre theories have been posted recently. I believe that the simplest theory is probably the most likely. Perpetrator is a sexual predator who targeted Jayme and the parents were in the way. Get rid of the parents, control Jayme and take her away to have her all to himself. I sadly don't hold out much hope for her return at this point but there have been miracles in the past. However, since he killed the parents I don't believe he would have any hesitation to kill her too.

 

[CuriousMaine]

James in the doorway has me wondering some things.

(snipped by me, answered in BBM)

Questions.

1. Were the bullet casings inside or outside of the house
Good question. They did appear to use metal detectors and rakes early in investigation.

2. Was the door shot with bullets?
Good question. I think it's very possible.

3. Why did they think it was suicide with the door kicked in?
Maybe thought it possible that James broke in the door; similar to suicide/double homicide in Barron County a year prior(?)
Link: Sheriff: Altercation Led To Chetek Double Murder-Suicide

4. What’s up with the neighbor gunshot report?

Good question. Maybe they did hear something, but got the time wrong or it was unrelated to Closs case(?)

 

[Gardener1850]

A lot of people set the BR alarm clock a few minutes fast, but their clock could just run a little fast. I'm not worried about the seven minutes difference. I think they were correct in what they reported because she also said she went outside about 1 AM and heard nothing. She didn't say that she and her hubby heard the shots and she got up t go outside right then. She said she often has trouble sleeping, so I think that she had lain there for 20+ minutes then got up again.

Perhaps you missed this new quote from the sheriff:

Fitzgerald said the neighbors' account of gunshots is unsubstantiated, and nothing points to shots going off around that time. He's unsure why their time frame differs from investigators'.

"There’s nothing to show that somebody was in the house for 20 minutes," he said.

Read more: 'You almost never see this': 5 questions about the Jayme Closs disappearance

 

[Irmese]

Most posters have concluded that Jayme was the target. IF so, if, if... the killer didn't simply go to the house, thinking maybe there was a young girl there. IMO there was prior contact. Three possibilities:
1. Stalking. It does not appear this is the case because the sheriff has not identified cars hanging around before the incident.
2. Face to face contact. Jayme was 13, at an age where constant supervision is not the usual mode of operation. We have previously posted our errors in judgment at that age, and that could be the case here. Did anyone see Jayme talking to someone perhaps after school, or did Jayme go to all x-country practices, per schedule? How often was she alone?
3. Online conact. What kind of a person was Jayme? Did she spend a lot of time online?

IMO the killer, if he targeted Jayme, knew her from somewhere previously. Where? How? Surely someone - a classmate perhaps - saw something.

I do think she was the target.
1. Stalking - Very possible. Someone could be watching from the woods, park some distance away, walk through the woods, spy through the windows, maybe even break in and look around. They could probably get in easily through the garage or basement window, maybe just picked the lock on the glass door.
2. Face to face contact. Very possible. She may not have had constant supervision, but she probably had a very defined social circle, at least until this year when she changed schools. Was that the reason someone came to get her, contact with her had been cut off when she changed schools and her aunt moved into her current school district? Could it be someone who hung around the aunt's old house while Jayme was there? A neighbor of the aunt's?
3. Online contact. Very possible. Maybe he pretended to be a girl and friended her on social media. Maybe he has a daughter, a little sister, a niece, etc. who is a friend of Jayme's.

Could be any or all of these, IMO.

 

[Irmese]

Perhaps you missed this new quote from the sheriff:

Read more: 'You almost never see this': 5 questions about the Jayme Closs disappearance

Yes, I did miss that.

From the article:
"Fitzgerald said the neighbors' account of gunshots is unsubstantiated, and nothing points to shots going off around that time. He's unsure why their time frame differs from investigators'."

Do you think he's saying that they heard no shots or simply their timing was off?

 

[MesquiteO21]

My own theory on this case is that Jayme was the target all the time, and that it might be someone connected to James' hunting group. The Sheriff has said that he believes James and Denise were killed instantly, which suggests someone used to handling a gun. A hunter can take out an animal pretty swiftly, so i would imagine they can do the same to a human too.

Maybe James had invited the group back for a beer at sometime after a hunting session? The perp takes a liking (for want of a better word) to Jayme, and over a course of weeks/months formulates a plan to take her. He knows where they live. it's isolated, knows the layout of the property and maybe even knows James locks his guns away after a shoot? He chooses a quiet Sunday night, gets James to answer the door somehow (or kicks it in), kills James and Denise and takes Jayme - mission accomplished in 4 minutes.

I'm not sure where the 911 call fits into this but i'm working on it. All MOO of course.

yeah i'm definitely leaning towards perp being a hunter.