AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #28

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Yes, I did miss that.

From the article:
"Fitzgerald said the neighbors' account of gunshots is unsubstantiated, and nothing points to shots going off around that time. He's unsure why their time frame differs from investigators'."

Do you think he's saying that they heard no shots or simply their timing was off?


I think he’s simply saying time frame wasnt verified by 2nd neighbor.. and he probably thinks there nice people.. but nice people can be wrong on timeline

Besides isn’t all this moot with Denise phone

If that phone is dormant for 1 hour before 911 call.. then erratic phone movements quick dial to 911 after phone begins to move again doesn’t that seal your timeline..
 
Yes, I did miss that.

From the article:
"Fitzgerald said the neighbors' account of gunshots is unsubstantiated, and nothing points to shots going off around that time. He's unsure why their time frame differs from investigators'."

Do you think he's saying that they heard no shots or simply their timing was off?

I think unsubstantiated means nothing they said matches the evidence. I think he means their account is not relevant to the crime.

See my previous post here for a list of the reasons I believe that:
AMBER ALERT - WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #28
 
Most posters have concluded that Jayme was the target. IF so, if, if... the killer didn't simply go to the house, thinking maybe there was a young girl there. IMO there was prior contact. Three possibilities:
1. Stalking. It does not appear this is the case because the sheriff has not identified cars hanging around before the incident.
2. Face to face contact. Jayme was 13, at an age where constant supervision is not the usual mode of operation. We have previously posted our errors in judgment at that age, and that could be the case here. Did anyone see Jayme talking to someone perhaps after school, or did Jayme go to all x-country practices, per schedule? How often was she alone?
3. Online conact. What kind of a person was Jayme? Did she spend a lot of time online?

IMO the killer, if he targeted Jayme, knew her from somewhere previously. Where? How? Surely someone - a classmate perhaps - saw something.

you raise good points however, i wouldn't underestimate the stealth of a stalker/criminal. it's definitely possible that she was being stalked - either by a complete stranger or someone with loose ties to the family - and no one was the wiser. Most people go about their lives not thinking someone could be near and watching them, so what could seem like an obvious clue in hindsight was not noticed or was brushed off at the time.
 
yeah i'm definitely leaning towards perp being a hunter.

Not hunting season. Hunters really don't violate the law. This isn't the wilderness. A lot of hunting is on private land or state land. Hunting season started Nov 17. Jayme was kidnapped Oct 15.
Violation of the hunting season is a fine of not more than $1,000 - $2000 or imprisonment for not more than 90 days, or both, and by a mandatory 3-year revocation of license.
 
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(Snipped by me for focus)

IMO the killer, if he targeted Jayme, knew her from somewhere previously. Where? How? Surely someone - a classmate perhaps - saw something.

There are so, many, many cases where the perp selected victims at the last minute; completely unknown to the victims. Groene, Pettit, and most serial killers through history. The longer this goes on without being solved, the more likely (IMO) that's what happened to the Closs family.
 
I think because the perp murdered two people, he can never let Jayme go, assuming he has her alive. But as very few people can hide a person inside their home forever, it does not seem likely. I don‘t think he ever intended to “keep” her. Whatever his “fantasy” may have been would have turned into a jolt of reality soon afterward and he would need to be free of her. I can’t help thinking she will be found...eventually...probably within a 25 mile radius. Jmo
 
I think he’s simply saying time frame wasnt verified by 2nd neighbor.. and he probably thinks there nice people.. but nice people can be wrong on timeline

Besides isn’t all this moot with Denise phone

If that phone is dormant for 1 hour before 911 call.. then erratic phone movements quick dial to 911 after phone begins to move again doesn’t that seal your timeline..

No. If the perp was in the house for up to 22 minutes, I would have expected he had been successful in keeping anyone (Jayme) from using a cell phone until that call was made. What makes it moot, IMO, is the Sheriff said the neighbor's timeline was off. I've seen posts saying the time must have been 12:51, but until now I did not see that the Sheriff had addressed this.
 
Were the neighbors out that night? I don't remember reading that they were. I'm also mid-fifties, hubby works so he goes to bed about 10-11 PM and back up at 4:30 AM. I typically stay up later, often until 1:00 AM or later and up about 6:30 AM. I am a night owl, even though I try to go to bed early. Still many older people like to watch the news before going to bed.
I seem to recall from an earlier thread (it seems so long ago lol) that the neighbours had been out earlier in the evening.
 
No new information; the sheriff just reaffirms that Jayme's case is top priority.

Sheriff: Nearly two months later, finding Jayme Closs still “number-one priority”
Sheriff Chris Fitzgerald said the FBI and the Department of Criminal Investigation is still on site, and an active part of the investigation. Fitzgerald said there’s nothing new to report in the investigation, but authorities continue to follow up on leads.

He said right now officers are trying to build a longer timeline of their lives through digital and social media records, hoping it could lead them to a clue that could help solve the case.

There’s an event Wednesday, December 12, called Tree of Hope for Jayme. It starts at five with a lighting ceremony at Riverview Middle School. It’s sponsored by Jennie-O, and the CEO of Hormel Foods will speak. There will also be prayer, messages of hope, and the lighting and release of lanterns.
 
Good question. Maybe they did hear something, but got the time wrong or it was unrelated to Closs case(?)

I am thinking so much that been released by the media in this case is based on someone interviewed without verification from LE. I know websleuths relies on posts here to have a media source, but in this case, I wonder if it it’s a bad idea to base any theory on any interview to the media.

On the other hand, any attention on Jayme is good attention. Hang in there, and hope every angle is considered. IMO.
 
I worked at JennieO in Barron many decades ago and it was called Jerome's then (before it was sold). I can tell you that drugs were rampant even then and not overly hidden. One could go into the restroom on break and the majority of people were sharing them or selling them talking about them and did not care if all heard or saw. This was an evening shift. While there were no large numbers of different ethnicities in that day, there was an extremely high turnover and it was one of those places, imho, that would hire without much vetting of employees simply because of that. Much of the work is in cold, wet conditions and it is hard work. Employees also came from long distances or neighboring counties to work. As I said in an earlier post, Rice Lake is the biggest town around for an hour at least in most directions and two hours in some. Jerome's was and probably still is one of the biggest employers in quite a huge radius.

Since I worked there back when, I know people who still do and people who, like the Closses, that have worked there most of their lives. Turnover is high but day shift and other positions once one works their way up holds employees better. Office, cafeteria, maintenance, etc. probably retains employees better. Line work, however, probably far less so. Without going into too much more detail, one of my main theories is this was work or work/drug related. I am not saying the victims did drugs but it doesn't mean they did not see it go on or pick up on something like that or another crime.

The PT works there too as all know so that kind of gives you an idea of the fact that there are people with records for varieties of crimes who are hired and do work there. There are also many in and out with regard to trucks, deliveries, etc. Some employees also work between the plant in Barron and the ones in MN, or at least it used to be that way and I imagine it still is.

One thing that also bothers me to this day is the body found in Willmar, MN, since
identified. Later I found on the very same day a red or orange Challenger was stopped in Willmar (this was in a MN paper I saw later). While the car was stopped, it was let go. <modsnip - discussing other forums, sleuthing non-POI>

I apologize for the length of this post and promise they will not all be so long :)
 
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I don't know if this has been posted yet but the Sheriff said in an article today that the neighbor's account of gunshots is unsubstantiated:



Read more: 'You almost never see this': 5 questions about the Jayme Closs disappearance
Interesting, at first it seemed like it was set in stone what the neighbours said about the gunshots lol. But now the sheriff has made things clearer in that regard, so I guess we need not be concerned about the 20 minutes or so time frame! I also think (in my mind, at least) that their account has been weakened by speaking to media (including tabloid types) right, left and centre!
 
This IS very interesting! I too think it is one or both of the parents that were targeted by the intruder, and that they just decided to take Jayme with them as an afterthought. But I could be way off base.

It was just so cold blooded, how the crime went down. If we are to interpret Sheriff Fitzgerald literally, and I think that is the only way to interpret his words, the Closs parents were killed cold blooded and fast. That Jayme wasn’t killed might be it was someone familiar and personal. That’s all I can make of it, since she doesn’t have the profile to suggest she was capable of duplicity.
 
No. If the perp was in the house for up to 22 minutes, I would have expected he had been successful in keeping anyone (Jayme) from using a cell phone until that call was made. What makes it moot, IMO, is the Sheriff said the neighbor's timeline was off. I've seen posts saying the time must have been 12:51, but until now I did not see that the Sheriff had addressed this.

I think 12:51 is correct ( could be wrong)

If you wanna use earlier timeline you’d have to come up with scenario where 2 loud gunshots. Then perp who only enters 5 ft. Ether keeps jayme at bay or talks to her ... then someone re enters home 20 min later and makes 911 call and tosses phone .. dunno..she hides??

You could be correct.. sheriff has what’s on 911 tape, knows movement and info of Denise phone.. he’s firm on 12:51..

I couldn’t discount 12:31 entirely.. with only 5ft inside house I don’t know what happens next 20 min..
 
I think because the perp murdered two people, he can never let Jayme go, assuming he has her alive. But as very few people can hide a person inside their home forever, it does not seem likely. I don‘t think he ever intended to “keep” her. Whatever his “fantasy” may have been would have turned into a jolt of reality soon afterward and he would need to be free of her. I can’t help thinking she will be found...eventually...probably within a 25 mile radius. Jmo

But then we have people who managed to keep Jaycee Lee Duggard and her children (by her captor) for years and years - in a shanty in the backyard no less. Or the ones who kept Elizabeth Smart outside in a tent as they roamed around. It’s not impossible at all. And we don’t know how resourceful the perp(s) May have been or how well planned this was. We would like to think she’s being kept in a home but that may not be the reality. Perhaps an underground bunker, maybe a trailer, maybe a shipping container. Maybe a basement. Hell it could be a treehouse for all we know. This could all be a game to someone to keep her alive and see how long it takes police to figure it all out. :(
 
There are so, many, many cases where the perp selected victims at the last minute; completely unknown to the victims. Groene, Pettit, and most serial killers through history. The longer this goes on without being solved, the more likely (IMO) that's what happened to the Closs family.

I think your right... but Rhoden murders makes me pause.. a lot of similar items in crime...

Rural mostly area drug problems
Multiple deaths..with intent to kill.
Looked like executions

Dogs left unkilled.

Took them 2 yrs.. they had 5x the evidence.

We could have POI, Fitzgerald has to make stick, needs slip up, or something.

Sadly I think he needs body to tie with certainty to crime.. I’m guessing he’s playing coy in hopes of getting the girl / body ..and can then build case.
 
But then we have people who managed to keep Jaycee Lee Duggard and her children (by her captor) for years and years - in a shanty in the backyard no less. Or the ones who kept Elizabeth Smart outside in a tent as they roamed around. It’s not impossible at all. And we don’t know how resourceful the perp(s) May have been or how well planned this was. We would like to think she’s being kept in a home but that may not be the reality. Perhaps an underground bunker, maybe a trailer, maybe a shipping container. Maybe a basement. Hell it could be a treehouse for all we know. This could all be a game to someone to keep her alive and see how long it takes police to figure it all out. :(
What if Jayme (at least initially) was kept somewhere very close to home? Maybe even so close that the perps car never reached a camera that could identify his vehicle.
 
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