AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #31

[Julia966]

I never thought of this until now but could it possible he was working but not at the turkey plant? Sometimes I will say that my husband can't be somewhere because he is busy working on a day when he is out cutting firewood, or fixing the car or fixing someone elses car for sidework etc. IMO he could have been working a side job for extra money or doing a repair or chore the family needed done while Denise was at the party, if he was not at the turkey plant.

True, I wonder how it was phrased by Denise.

 

[ilovechili]

: )
I thought the reference to a potential burner phone was suggested meaning the *Perp* used one. Agree it is highly unlikely that a teen could think something like this through. Covering the tracks of a burner phone requires a bit of skill.

I think it has been looked at a variety of ways, one example is if a teen is not allowed their phone at night or is "grounded" from it, a cheap track phone would be a back up for those times. Or a tablet, etc.

Teens can forget to throw their garbage in the trash can or rinse a plate but can hide what they want to hide very well. We all have our skills in some areas and lack them in others lol. I am not one that thinks she did this but I am a believer in that no scenario should not be considered. It still in no way means she did anything wrong, just that it could be where she accessed some app or game or ran into some creep. Not unheard of.

 

[Rubiconbob]

Cornell is about 4 hours away...
I think Naiberg family is now from there...?

Closs had to visit there quite a bit...
I would frankly check all sex offenders in 400 mile radius.. especially if they have a tie to Barron...perp below drunk shooting gun trying to kidnap a little girl?? Less then 1 yr in jail.. I don’t really get that ...

Cornell man bound over for trial in child kidnapping case

 

[bizzle2]

I was figuring that since there was no evidence, no witnesses, no nothing to go on, they brought the dogs in just to make sure there wasn’t a security/nanny camera in the house somewhere. I have one in my living room that covers the front, back and garage door coming into the house. They’d need a dog to find it, too.

This was my sense of the electronic sniffing dogs too. That it was something LE did to cover their bases since they were coming up empty elsewhere, and that they weren't necessarily looking for something specific. More of a "we have access to this resource so we might as well see if it can help us." No harm in trying.

Same sort of deal with the mattresses IMO. They wanted to check for any DNA from non-family members that could point them toward someone they needed to talk to, or offer a potential motive.

I think both of those things were done like a week or more after the crime, which is why I lean toward the "covering their bases" angle with that and not something more specific.

 

[1987]

am I the only one that keeps my old phones and in a month or two has no idea where they are at in the house? here a teen could have a phone sized tablet with no money spent and I wouldn't have a clue unless my current phone broke and I had to find the old one.

 

[*Removed_for_profanity*]

: )
I thought the reference to a potential burner phone was suggested meaning the *Perp* used one. Agree it is highly unlikely that a teen could think something like this through. Covering the tracks of a burner phone requires a bit of skill.

I guess I was thinking we were still talking about a perp giving her one to use secretly. I’m a little slow, but I’ll catch up!

If I could get an answer on my internet question from ten pages back, I could maybe rule out a digital connection altogether. For me anyway.

 

[*Removed_for_profanity*]

This was my sense of the electronic sniffing dogs too. That it was something LE did to cover their bases since they were coming up empty elsewhere, and that they weren't necessarily looking for something specific. More of a "we have access to this resource so we might as well see if it can help us." No harm in trying.

Same sort of deal with the mattresses IMO. They wanted to check for any DNA from non-family members that could point them toward someone they needed to talk to, or offer a potential motive.

I think both of those things were done like a week or more after the crime, which is why I lean toward the "covering their bases" angle with that and not something more specific.

Yep. I think that’s why they took the carpet too. With so little to go on, what better way to make sure you get any and all evidence there is. Roll up the carpet and take it back where you can literally go over it with a fine toothed comb.

 

[JRW]

Agree with you, as well. Purchasing a burner phone would require the teen to A) have money, and B) be conscious of the fact that ANY place selling items like that will have cameras. If Jayme had been purchasing something like this for herself, LE already knows it.

The question is whether, or not, someone else could have been purchasing them for her. With all the chatter that occurs around teenage circles, I would almost guarantee LE would know about that, as well.

I agree... I know instances of teens buying phones for other teens because they don't have one or the phone was taken away. It doesnt take much to buy one and saving up a few weeks allowance and passing it off to a friend to get you a phone is quite easy. Also even if the phone doesnt have the prepaid plan paid for you can still use them to access wifi. So the phone doesnt even have to have active service to use as an internet resource

 

[*Removed_for_profanity*]

am I the only one that keeps my old phones and in a month or two has no idea where they are at in the house? here a teen could have a phone sized tablet with no money spent and I wouldn't have a clue unless my current phone broke and I had to find the old one.

Nope. Lol I keep my old ones because I’m too cheap to get insurance on a new one. I already have my replacement.

 

[Rubiconbob]

am I the only one that keeps my old phones and in a month or two has no idea where they are at in the house? here a teen could have a phone sized tablet with no money spent and I wouldn't have a clue unless my current phone broke and I had to find the old one.

Yes... I have 3 old iPhones....a lot times I just nuke them .. do reinstall and give to nephews or somebody that needs phone..
I still say burner over old phone ...but trade in value is so low most times people just keep as back up...

you’d think if this was family squabble that escalated quickly that burner would be ruled out... and POI cell would be moving at 12:52.

 

[ilovechili]

I don't know what his normal work schedule is, but I did just look up the place out of curiosity. It's a 24/7 operation and although it's call a "turkey store", it appears to be a huge animal processing plant. I was picturing an actual store.

(/city girl )

It actually takes up a few city blocks. They process live birds from start to finish. I can't swear to it but I think the name "The Turkey Store" came in along with when they started processing more things like turkey sausage, turkey burger, etc. instead of just whole birds or roasts... They even put out a cookbook years ago in that name using those products. Do not hold me to that, it is IF my memory serves me correctly....

 

[chili367]

It could be, I have no idea. It did not used to be, be nice if we could ask someone. It used to be two shifts and then sanitation teams came on as food plants have to be sanitized. And Sunday would be the day the parking lot was empty. This is based on a long time ago, maybe someone else can tell us what is true there today?

Even then, I guess, I still have other reasons for thinking he did not work. I am trying to follow the rules and can't state them. And an almost 30 year was it employee, I would think one would have a regular shift re seniority and a line supervisor position if one so chooses. If this was Saturday, I could believe it, not so easily on Sunday.

Again, it is simply my opinion. I respect that others may differ.

Seniority also gets you OT when available. That probably is more than any side job would get him and he'd be near last on the list for forced OT.

But, again, not disagreeing with your overall premise.

 

[Julia966]

I question whether a teen would think about cameras, dogs and LE, though, when acquiring a burner phone. Their biggest concern would be their parents, so it seems like hiding the phone and keeping it quiet would be the only issues on their minds.

 

[bizzle2]

If I may add, this is also a 13 year old we are talking about. I agree with what Roses said, and I don’t believe a teen keeps up her end of the subterfuge flawlessly. Which is how this would have had to have gone down, since there’s no evidence of a burner (or online coaching). My teen can’t get the milk back in the fridge better than half the time...

Haha.

Yea, I think I could have worded it better when I talked about the sophistication of the second phone. You put it better than I did. I find it somewhat unlikely that she would even be aware of how to get and set up a burner phone, but the kicker for me is that I find it extremely unlikely that she would be able to keep the fact that she had one under wraps.

Example: I coach a 12 year old girls soccer team. At our last practice before the winter break a couple girls kept asking to go to the bathroom, and spending a lot of time at their soccer bags. Within 30 minutes I realized they were sneaking over there to eat candy they had gotten in school that day. The evidence was all over their green mouths. The point of the story is not that I'm a smart guy who quickly figured out their plan. The point is that kids that age are terrible at hiding things from adults. They think they are being sneaky, but they really aren't.

 

[Julia966]

Very true (mother of two previous teenagers) and a hilarious example. But, on the other hand, you only know what you find out. You don't know what you don't find out.

 

[Lillymac]

This article might help to understand what these amazing dogs do. And why the were brought in.

Wisc gets electronics-sniffing dog to help in child predator investigations

Digital Detection Dog

Posted: Wed 8:13 AM, Oct 31, 2018

Barron teenager Jayme Closs.

"Kozak, like most electronic detection canines, is on a food-reward diet, which means he is only fed when he finds an electronic device. This requires him to either be trained or deployed on an operation every day, in order to stay fed and keep his skills up to snuff," says the Wisconsin Department of Justice.

Kozak is named after kidnapping survivor Alicia Kozakiewicz. At age 13, she was abducted by an online predator and tortured in his basement.

In 2016, Wisconsin lawmakers passed Alicia's Law to cut the time and process it takes to find the location of suspected internet predators.

"I am absolutely overjoyed that K9 Kozak, the new Wisconsin ICAC Canine Officer, has been named after me!" said Alicia Kozakiewicz. "What I experienced was truly heinous, but so much good has come from it, such as, Alicia's Law, which I worked alongside the group, Protect, to pass in Wisconsin. How amazing that Alicia's Law has gone on to fund Kozak's addition to this incredible team of heroes. Go get 'em, Kozak!"

K9 Kozak was trained at the same center as K9 Bear. Bear helped in the Jared Fogle case and raids on a home of former gymnastics coach Marvin Sharp.

The Internet Crimes Against Children Task Force has received 915 tips in the first half of 2018. They've inspected more than 315,000 gigabytes of data on hard drives and other storage devices.

In 2017, Target 2 reported on the work of electronics-sniffing dogs. Click here to learn more about what the dogs can do.

 

[ilovechili]

Seniority also gets you OT when available. That probably is more than any side job would get him and he'd be near last on the list for forced OT.

But, again, not disagreeing with your overall premise.

Oh for sure, I do not disagree with you either. This plant would be ramped up for Thanksgiving and quite possibly it is 24/7. I do know they have to sanitize though and if they are now running three processing shifts and trying to do that when--on employees' break time? As they work 24/7 processing without stop? That would bother me and may explain their recent recalls but perhaps that is how it is nowadays with food factories, I have no idea.

I also get that Jim's family said he worked a lot of OT so I see where the likelihood is he worked if he wanted OT and it was available. Yet I still do not believe he did on Sunday for reasons I mentioned and other reasons. I could be entirely wrong but it is what my opinion is. It also does not mean he necessarily was doing anything secretive, I just think it was an excuse not to go to a family party. I think he may have worked Saturday, Sunday was his only day off and did not want to have that day scheduled for him as well. Possibly anyhow.

 

[ilovechili]

So the one address in the call log they spent over an hour at was probably family and in a short period of time they also entered Jayme as missing and went to see the sister. It all makes sense that the first probably informed them no, she is missing, she should be there, etc.

Has my eyesight gone to heck or can anyone find the contact with the school officer/contact? It was in the original log. I thought it was said that was how they found there should be a child in the home as well and in the beginning, it was the main contact, I thought around 5ish something in the morning that they said allowed them to realize she probably should be there and they issued not an Amber Alert but a missing alert...

 

[Megnut]

Anyone interested in trying to break down the 911 call again? Old territory, I know, but we have new members with new insight every day. The 911 is some of the only verified data out there, at this point. We have a neighbor account, sincere but subject to human error, and we have the 911 call. We THINK we know about AT LEAST 2 gunshots, which SEEM to coincide with the crime. Remember, the neighbors heard two loud sounds but did not indicate from a particular direction. IMO that means those sounds reverberated. I get no sense they associated those sounds with the Closs home until AFTER learning from LE what horrors had transpired.

There are two things I'd like to hear your thoughts on...

1. The neighbors' dog's agitation or awareness in the 1 o'clock hour, by their account. What was the dog sensing? LE presence at the Closs property or foot traffic nearby perhaps??? I wonder if their dog is typically a barker... some dogs would bark at a perceived threat but others might not.

And 2. Because of the 911 call, we know some things. The basics. That someone dialed it. That it disconnected. Was the phone turned OFF when LE found it? What would send call backs to voicemail? Do we think the phone did or didn't ring when the 911 operator called back?

If we assume there are no gunshots in the 911 call, enhanced or otherwise, who is yelling?

1. Multiple perps, to each other or to whom?
2. A single perp, but to whom
3. Jayme. Just because the sheriff said they believe Jayme was home at the time her parents were murdered based "on the 911 call and evidence at the scene" doesn't mean she could be heard ON the call.
4. Denise or James. Technically we don't KNOW whether or how much shooting happened before the 911 call connected or whether and/or how much after it was diconnected.
MOO I wonder if the indecipherable voices were muffled by walls, bedding or the position of the phone's microphone, for instance, face down.

Do we think there may have been TWO modes of departure? One takes off in a car, another on foot? These are just my thoughts.

My heart breaks for Jayme's remaining family. Sad, little Molly socks me in the gut.

Let's hope LE is close to bringing Jayme Closs home!

 

[ilovechili]

Anyone interested in trying to break down the 911 call again? Old territory, I know, but we have new members with new insight every day. The 911 is some of the only verified data out there, at this point. We have a neighbor account, sincere but subject to human error, and we have the 911 call. We THINK we know about AT LEAST 2 gunshots, which SEEM to coincide with the crime. Remember, the neighbors heard two loud sounds but did not indicate from a particular direction. IMO that means those sounds reverberated. I get no sense they associated those sounds with the Closs home until AFTER learning from LE what horrors had transpired.

There are two things I'd like to hear your thoughts on...

1. The neighbors' dog's agitation or awareness in the 1 o'clock hour, by their account. What was the dog sensing? LE presence at the Closs property or foot traffic nearby perhaps??? I wonder if their dog is typically a barker... some dogs would bark at a perceived threat but others might not.

And 2. Because of the 911 call, we know some things. The basics. That someone dialed it. That it disconnected. Was the phone turned OFF when LE found it? What would send call backs to voicemail? Do we think the phone did or didn't ring when the 911 operator called back?

If we assume there are no gunshots in the 911 call, enhanced or otherwise, who is yelling?

1. Multiple perps, to each other or to whom?
2. A single perp, but to whom
3. Jayme. Just because the sheriff said they believe Jayme was home at the time her parents were murdered based "on the 911 call and evidence at the scene" doesn't mean she could be heard ON the call.
4. Denise or James. Technically we don't KNOW whether or how much shooting happened before the 911 call connected or whether and/or how much after it was diconnected.
MOO I wonder if the indecipherable voices were muffled by walls, bedding or the position of the phone's microphone, for instance, face down.

Do we think there may have been TWO modes of departure? One takes off in a car, another on foot? These are just my thoughts.

My heart breaks for Jayme's remaining family. Sad, little Molly socks me in the gut.

Let's hope LE is close to bringing Jayme Closs home!

Well said.

Hindsight or going back to look I often find is worthwhile. We are months in and have heard tons of theories so I have went back lately to the call log and it sometimes gives one a new view to go back after some time and discussions. As you say, it is one of the very few "official" things we have. Often one looks back at something they have not seen in awhile and it gives new thoughts.

To my knowledge, unless I missed it, we still have no for sure explanation of the MI contact early on. We seem to know now what the other couple of addresses on it were related to.

Your remark about the neighbors' dog makes me also wonder was someone on or near their property? Probably not likely but a thought... And then were picked up later, could people have scattered if there were more than one, in a hurry, after a 911 call? The neighbors' account as well does not match LE as we all know ad nauseum by now but it still is one of the things that make one go hmm. Not directed at the neighbors, more so wondering why LE from the start said their clock was wrong and now their account is said to be probably entirely likely wrong. There is no reason to disbelieve the neighbors but there also is no reason to disbelieve LE. So it remains a mystery. Theories abound, the neighbor misreading the clock, etc. but they are theories and it remains a mystery.

I gather no one has found the school contact? There was one early on in this log. It is not so much that it may be important so much as where did it go?

Grasping at straws but as you say, it is the little bit of probably actual info we have.

We also apparently have a missing part of an interview--where the brother talked about yes, he darned well did have a gut instinct...