AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #32

[Rosiebones]

That porch is so tiny for two people amd all of that holdng and kicking action

Swat has a special battering ram

I guess they could just reach down and move that gizmo that holds storm doors open, I do it all the time when I am bringing in groceries.

 

[DetJoseyWales]

If the first officer arrives, goes to the porch or at least close enough to see the feet of James in the doorway, then door must have been opened by James because the 36 inch opening arc would have pushed his legs aside as the perp went in to shoot Denise. This would also be true if he shot James through the door, because as he pushed the door open he would push James to the side. I doubt that he would rearrange his legs after going in and the first officer clearly states he sees James' feet in the doorway. The door was removed from its hinges and removed. I remember seeing that picture and forgive me if I say I could never find it now.

Think depth perception. Don't be too literal. The door was kicked in. Maybe shot at, too. James was killed instantly with a shot most likely to the head. His feet could be seen as officers approached the doorway. That doesn't mean they were hanging out over the sill on the porch. They could have been, and most likely were, several feet inside, as that's the only plausable explanation that matches the door being kicked in (and possibly being shot at)

 

[DetJoseyWales]

Once again I will go against the norm. I don't mean any offence to anyone. I have to say as I have previously said thinking when something happened and knowing are two different things. My husband and I have our clock set forward by funnily enough 7-10 mins. However, I know our incident started happening at 11:07 why do I know that? I happened to be here on WS with internet time. I no more think the Smirkers lied than fly they heard something they gave a timeframe according to their timepiece (Alarm Clock) which was possibly set 10 mins ahead. I think it is very easy to say I heard xyz at such a time by my clock oh BTW My clock is 10 mins fast. I don't understand why people question the Neighbours. JMHO

The police don't buy the Smeakers timeline either. And they are questionable because their accounts have been so erratic, from whether they were in bed, or had just gotten home, to selling their story to a rag like Radar, to providing a profile of the Closs family that does not match the description given by a single other source -- never came to their door, recluses, never left their house, didn't know they had a daughter (while Jayme was standing daily in her driveway waiting for the bus, and the family was all over town engaged in activities with their kid). And then maintaining that the FBI came to their door, interviewed them, and told them that "Help" had been heard on the 911 call. That's where that particular load of BS started circulating from. The chances the FBI is going to give information about what is contained in a 911 call to a witness during an interview is absolutely, ZERO.
These people IMO are the most unreliable element of the case, and are so flaky they have unintentionally added confusion to the investigation.

 

[DetJoseyWales]

I don’t think it’s people not believing Smrekars .... they simply believe they were sincerely wrong on time ... or mrs Smrekar was... why would she be laser focused.. at that time it was just another night. She didn’t know...so glancing at clock she coulda got wrong ...

Mrs smerkar goes onto say door was shot up and the word help was heard on 911 tape based on what fbi told her. A lot of people now take that as fact... so it’s not smerkars issue it’s just the clock /time issue....

No, it's definitely a Smeakers issue. You think the FBI showed up at their door to interview them as potential witnesses and told them what was in the 911 call? Seriously? And as I detailed in reply elsewhere here, their accounts of what type of family the Closses were are completely opposite those of anyone else who has ever known them.

 

[DetJoseyWales]

Interesting statement from a cold case detective about Jaymes' case:

"Stranger abduction with two murders inside the home is uncommon", he said in an email to USA TODAY NETWORK-Wisconsin. "
"If the ultimate goal was kidnapping or sex trafficking, Mains said, it wouldn't be necessary to kill the parents."

"You may kill them because they know who you are or because the purpose is to kill them and not the kidnapping," he said. "It is an extra, extraordinary step and it is done for a specific purpose not related to the kidnapping."

Full article can be seen here:
Barron in limbo as one month passes since Jayme Closs disappearance, parents' murders

Lex, that was from Nov. 15. If you'd like to see how people reacted to it in here as I remember there was discussion on threads here around that time. It was a good story. So was the TV interview with Det Mark Furhman (infamous OJ Simpson case) in which he assessed that Denise was the target. Stuff becomes ancient history in here pretty fast lol.

 

[DetJoseyWales]

Seems out of character for a woman who is described as Denise has been described. I could see James not answering or Jayme if she was home alone. That is one of the things I said way back, maybe they came knocking when Jayme was alone and she didn't answer the door because she was told not to.
Regardless, they have put things out there that have been disputed so taking things they said as concrete evidence is a bad idea. The FBI and sheriff aren't telling any one anything but told them someone said help on the 911 call? The sheriff even said not to rely on anyone but him to give information.

This +1000

 

[Forpsy]

The police don't buy the Smeakers timeline either. And they are questionable because their accounts have been so erratic, from whether they were in bed, or had just gotten home, to selling their story to a rag like Radar, to providing a profile of the Closs family that does not match the description given by a single other source -- never came to their door, recluses, never left their house, didn't know they had a daughter (while Jayme was standing daily in her driveway waiting for the bus, and the family was all over town engaged in activities with their kid). And then maintaining that the FBI came to their door, interviewed them, and told them that "Help" had been heard on the 911 call. That's where that particular load of BS started circulating from. The chances the FBI is going to give information about what is contained in a 911 call to a witness during an interview is absolutely, ZERO.
These people IMO are the most unreliable element of the case, and are so flaky they have unintentionally added confusion to the investigation.

How do you know the police "didn't buy the Smeakers timeline either?"

 

[DetJoseyWales]

That porch is so tiny for two people amd all of that holdng and kicking action

Swat has a special battering ram

Hi Human, enjoy your thoughts here. One thing about that front porch. Most people have seen pictures of it looking from the front yard toward the front door. From that angle, depth perception is skewed, and it looks smaller than it really is. I remember seeing another set of pictures -- oh about two miles worth of threads back lol -- from the angle of the deck and sliding glass doors area around the side of the house. You could see the front porch from that side angle, and it looks quite deep, I'd guess 5-6 feet from doorsill out to the edge of the step.

 

[stephlovescheese]

I'd like to know if James worked on Sunday and if so what time? If not, what was his schedule that day. I know the family had been told James worked, but I'd like to have LE confirm it.

Did Jayme have any known problems at school, by that I mean was she bullied or what was the reason she changed schools. I'd like LE to confirm it was bc the Aunt moved and nothing nefarious going on.

I'd like for them to confirm they cleared the two girls that were driving by the scene that night. I'm sure they have, but I'd like for them to acknowledge it.

All really good points @girlhasnoname ! I’d like to see these questions answered too.

 

[ilovechili]

The police don't buy the Smeakers timeline either. And they are questionable because their accounts have been so erratic, from whether they were in bed, or had just gotten home, to selling their story to a rag like Radar, to providing a profile of the Closs family that does not match the description given by a single other source -- never came to their door, recluses, never left their house, didn't know they had a daughter (while Jayme was standing daily in her driveway waiting for the bus, and the family was all over town engaged in activities with their kid). And then maintaining that the FBI came to their door, interviewed them, and told them that "Help" had been heard on the 911 call. That's where that particular load of BS started circulating from. The chances the FBI is going to give information about what is contained in a 911 call to a witness during an interview is absolutely, ZERO.
These people IMO are the most unreliable element of the case, and are so flaky they have unintentionally added confusion to the investigation.

I don't have a solid opinion of these neighbors one way or the other regarding the timeline or anything else.

I would point out though that they are not the only ones that did not realize this couple had a child. Authorities did not either seem to know she stood out for the bus daily, was dropped off daily or went to school in Barron, ran Cross Country in Barron, that her parents worked in and lived in Barron for decades and that she had lived there all 13 years of her life with the same parents so far as we know, or that she should have been at home.

I do not mean anything by that other than to say for such a small town, and the fact this couple had worked and lived there for decades, and used facilities like the community center, local businesses regularly, etc., like Kwik Trip (there was a mention way back of a clerk in an article knowing mom and Jayme), as did a bakery worker know mom and what she regularly bought for her family when she came in, it kind of boggles one's mind on occasion.

In most small towns, people know if you blink, whether Joe's car was seen at Subway at lunch time, and whether Billy Bob stops for a drink at such and such a watering hole every Monday through Thursday at exactly 4:01 p.m (meaning oh my he must cut work 5 minutes early every day). Hell, when you live in a fishbowl, people will call you and tell you when they went by your house on the way to work, they noticed you left your mailbox open and you might want to go shut it before the blizzard hits. And those that know it all better than most? Your local snowplow operator who plows the roads at all hours, your local LE, your mailman (from the mail addressed to 3 family members at the address), because they have routes that take them around the community, etc., etc.

The Smrekars knowing little about the family or their child surprises me not at all. There is a good chance they could see each other in the grocery store and not realize it is their neighbor. Now if the Smrekars had a 13 year old child at the same school, I would find it far more difficult to believe because then their lives would likely intersect at times and the children would ride the same bus. And to give the family credit, if they were overly nosy, they would probably know a lot more about them than they do, they actually had very little they knew or said about them. There was no he always comes home late, she wears pajama pants when getting the mail, they make that poor girl push mow the entire yard (ludicrous made up examples to try to make my point). Now if they had a lot to say to keep getting paid or be in the news, I would doubt their memory more. Yet they really haven't any info except gun shots and one time they took up some misdelivered mail. They know nothing about them which to me makes what they did say probably pretty credible. (Minus any twist put on by the rag media).

I have no reason to doubt the Smrekars and I have no reason to doubt LE. Making the time line work is a bit difficult but it can be made to work with some scenarios. I take the 5 feet 4 minute thing as a hypothetical, and even possibly an attempt to convince a perp they have nothing for evidence.

Maybe one day all of the seeming oddities will make sense.

Not an attempt to debate or disagree--just a different take on it and jmho. I can also see and understand the opinion you give which many agree with as well. I am undecided. At least they told what they recall, I do not doubt someone is out there who knows what happened who is silent.

 

[Pretty Go Pale]

The police don't buy the Smeakers timeline either. And they are questionable because their accounts have been so erratic, from whether they were in bed, or had just gotten home, to selling their story to a rag like Radar, to providing a profile of the Closs family that does not match the description given by a single other source -- never came to their door, recluses, never left their house, didn't know they had a daughter (while Jayme was standing daily in her driveway waiting for the bus, and the family was all over town engaged in activities with their kid). And then maintaining that the FBI came to their door, interviewed them, and told them that "Help" had been heard on the 911 call. That's where that particular load of BS started circulating from. The chances the FBI is going to give information about what is contained in a 911 call to a witness during an interview is absolutely, ZERO.
These people IMO are the most unreliable element of the case, and are so flaky they have unintentionally added confusion to the investigation.

Old lady Smrekar reminds me of the grandmother in Flannery O'Connor's short story, "A Good Man is Hard to Find." That only makes sense, as we are dealing with an obviously violent "Misfit" in this case.

 

[Tim Constas]

The police don't buy the Smeakers timeline either. And they are questionable because their accounts have been so erratic, from whether they were in bed, or had just gotten home, to selling their story to a rag like Radar, to providing a profile of the Closs family that does not match the description given by a single other source -- never came to their door, recluses, never left their house, didn't know they had a daughter (while Jayme was standing daily in her driveway waiting for the bus, and the family was all over town engaged in activities with their kid). And then maintaining that the FBI came to their door, interviewed them, and told them that "Help" had been heard on the 911 call. That's where that particular load of BS started circulating from. The chances the FBI is going to give information about what is contained in a 911 call to a witness during an interview is absolutely, ZERO.
These people IMO are the most unreliable element of the case, and are so flaky they have unintentionally added confusion to the investigation.

Under "crime details" at the very beginning of this thread, Fitzgerald says,

• He says the call lasted less than a minute and the only word that can be understood is “help”. [15]

 

[Forpsy]

I don't have a solid opinion of these neighbors one way or the other regarding the timeline or anything else.

I would point out though that they are not the only ones that did not realize this couple had a child. Authorities did not either seem to know she stood out for the bus daily, was dropped off daily or went to school in Barron, ran Cross Country in Barron, that her parents worked in and lived in Barron for decades and that she had lived there all 13 years of her life with the same parents so far as we know, or that she should have been at home.

I do not mean anything by that other than to say for such a small town, and the fact this couple had worked and lived there for decades, and used facilities like the community center, local businesses regularly, etc., like Kwik Trip (there was a mention way back of a clerk in an article knowing mom and Jayme), as did a bakery worker know mom and what she regularly bought for her family when she came in, it kind of boggles one's mind on occasion.

In most small towns, people know if you blink, whether Joe's car was seen at Subway at lunch time, and whether Billy Bob stops for a drink at such and such a watering hole every Monday through Thursday at exactly 4:01 p.m (meaning oh my he must cut work 5 minutes early every day). Hell, when you live in a fishbowl, people will call you and tell you when they went by your house on the way to work, they noticed you left your mailbox open and you might want to go shut it before the blizzard hits. And those that know it all better than most? Your local snowplow operator who plows the roads at all hours, your local LE, your mailman (from the mail addressed to 3 family members at the address), because they have routes that take them around the community, etc., etc.

The Smrekars knowing little about the family or their child surprises me not at all. There is a good chance they could see each other in the grocery store and not realize it is their neighbor. Now if the Smrekars had a 13 year old child at the same school, I would find it far more difficult to believe because then their lives would likely intersect at times and the children would ride the same bus. And to give the family credit, if they were overly nosy, they would probably know a lot more about them than they do, they actually had very little they knew or said about them. There was no he always comes home late, she wears pajama pants when getting the mail, they make that poor girl push mow the entire yard (ludicrous made up examples to try to make my point). Now if they had a lot to say to keep getting paid or be in the news, I would doubt their memory more. Yet they really haven't any info except gun shots and one time they took up some misdelivered mail. They know nothing about them which to me makes what they did say probably pretty credible. (Minus any twist put on by the rag media).

I have no reason to doubt the Smrekars and I have no reason to doubt LE. Making the time line work is a bit difficult but it can be made to work with some scenarios. I take the 5 feet 4 minute thing as a hypothetical, and even possibly an attempt to convince a perp they have nothing for evidence.

Maybe one day all of the seeming oddities will make sense.

Not an attempt to debate or disagree--just a different take on it and jmho. I can also see and understand the opinion you give which many agree with as well. I am undecided. At least they told what they recall, I do not doubt someone is out there who knows what happened who is silent.

I agree 1000+ with this. I don't care if the Smeakers were nosy. Just the same I did not get from them that were looking for their fifteen minutes, They were--especially in the very beginning--just giving words to their thoughts. She said, and I am paraphrasing, that there was a loud boom then a few seconds later, a louder boom. She asked her husband "what was that, was that a gun" and her husband answered "yes and it's a big one too." Stuff like that fits in with everything we know so far. As for the time discrepancy, there are a handful of reasons that deal with those credibly. I think, if you take away the Smeakers, you've got nothing. Mrs Smeaker heard what she heard. It was odd enough to make her look at her clock and it gives us a timeline. And everything they say after that, when the various media outlets got a hold of them, is edited this way and that and now people are accusing them of having an angle. Pay attention to the stuff they said at the beginning before their memories were "aided." I find them credible. JMO

 

[ilovechili]

Under "crime details" at the very beginning of this thread, Fitzgerald says,

• He says the call lasted less than a minute and the only word that can be understood is “help”. [15]

He did say it early on. In the beginning, there was a bit of openness before the total more vague responses that have continued after that.

 

[ilovechili]

I agree 1000+ with this. I don't care if the Smeakers were nosy. Just the same I did not get from them that were looking for their fifteen minutes, They were--especially in the very beginning--just giving words to their thoughts. She said, and I am paraphrasing, that there was a loud boom then a few seconds later, a louder boom. She asked her husband "what was that, was that a gun" and her husband answered "yes and it's a big one too." Stuff like that fits in with everything we know so far. As for the time discrepancy, there are a handful of reasons that deal with those credibly. I think, if you take away the Smeakers, you've got nothing. Mrs Smeaker heard what she heard. It was odd enough to make her look at her clock and it gives us a timeline. And everything they say after that, when the various media outlets got a hold of them, is edited this way and that and now people are accusing them of having an angle. Pay attention to the stuff they said at the beginning before their memories were "aided." I find them credible. JMO

I agree. I don't think most people with such a horrendous tragedy would do anything more than give their best recollection (man I would WANT it solved if I lived next door) and if she was in doubt, she would say so. I know I would and I think most would. Such a big loud gun though for someone looking for a fast getaway. I am beginning to rethink a few things... not that it will do any good or be right lol

 

[Forpsy]

Old lady Smrekar reminds me of the grandmother in Flannery O'Connor's short story, "A Good Man is Hard to Find." That only makes sense, as we are dealing with an obviously violent "Misfit" in this case.

Probably ought to refer to the Smeakers by their titles vis a vis, Mr. and/or Mrs as opposed to "Old lady Smeaker. jmo. Probably wouldn't hurt to stay on topic either.

 

[Rosiebones]

A few observations from someone who has been reading this since the beginning.
It is impossible to keep observations simple and full of common sense (Occam Razor) since we have NO facts and as soon as something is stated we go down every rabbit track and soon are in a land of the absurd. So, LE, give us something.

As one who has been reading these threads since the beginning, I have noticed that we are on the third, and in some cases the fourth go round on some subjects, which in some cases has presented new ideas but for those of us on here for the long haul it is frustrating.

The sheer length of these discussions have made it impossible, at least for me, to even go back and find specifics facts. Bless all of you who can do that !!!

 

[Pretty Go Pale]

Probably ought to refer to the Smeakers by their titles vis a vis, Mr. and/or Mrs as opposed to "Old lady Smeaker. jmo. Probably wouldn't hurt to stay on topic either.

Thanks for the feedback, Forpsy.

 

[Julia966]

If the 5 feet is tied to the 4 minutes, we KNOW it can't be exact. The 911 call was received at 00:53:26 and terminated 47 seconds later. They know something was going on at 00:53:26 and probably know whether the bad guy was there at that time. They may know the bad guy was still there 47 seconds later, so 00:54:13. The first officer arrived at 01:00:29, and reportedly no bad guy was there then. That leaves a period of 6 minutes and 16 seconds, from the end of the 911 call to the officer pulling in the driveway. They can not narrow it down to 4 minutes. The 5 feet and 4 minutes comments can not be taken literally.

Right. Unless LE has other information that pins it down. It's a pretty bold statement IMO, and I take it with a grain of salt until other info becomes available.

 

[Tricia]

Hey Everyone,

I'm going to close this thread in a moment and open a new one.
Thanks,
Tricia