Found Deceased WI - Kathleen Ryan, adult, teacher, car found burned with body inside, St. Francis, 2 Feb 2019 #2

[mks762]

Ducks?

It's a saying, it means having your affairs in order- having your responsibilities taken care of

 

[Joe Friday]

In giving this thought after not thinking about this case for awhile, it seems there would be easier (less painful) ways to end your life. If it was suicide, the timing and the place don't really make sense. I also think that if it was suicide, she'd have had all her ducks in a row.

Where was it said she didn't have her ducks in a row?

 

[owsley]

It's a saying, it means having your affairs in order- having your responsibilities taken care of

Yes, I understood the expression -- a bit flippant, under the circumstances. Perhaps I should have asked the poster if s/he had knowledge that this had not been done.

 

[Razz]

Yes, I understood the expression -- a bit flippant, under the circumstances. Perhaps I should have asked the poster if s/he had knowledge that this had not been done.

It certainly was not meant to be flippant.
Did she leave a note to anyone? Was there a will?
And this is the biggest thing and I'm going to get hammered for this.....but why take her car with her? But I tend to be too practical. (The car could have been left for one of the grands).
I'm just stating reasons why I'm leaning away from suicide. You certainly don't need to agree but I can assure you there is nothing flippant about this situation or how I see it.

 

[Curiousobserver]

It certainly was not meant to be flippant.
Did she leave a note to anyone? Was there a will?
And this is the biggest thing and I'm going to get hammered for this.....but why take her car with her? But I tend to be too practical. (The car could have been left for one of the grands).
I'm just stating reasons why I'm leaning away from suicide. You certainly don't need to agree but I can assure you there is nothing flippant about this situation or how I see it.

Its maddening because we are never going to know. There is evidence on both sides: There is no evidence of a traditional car-jacking or abduction such as use of the car in another crime or use of her ATM cards or credit cards. Location of the car was not in a traditionally high crime area. Location of the car was not in an area with easy escape access like public transit or a secluded road etc.. The car was on fire which could suggest an attempt to cover your tracks, or could be the means of the suicide, or could have been an accident that occurred after death by drug overdose. She was found in the passenger seat which suggests she didn't drive there, or could also be related to use of items in her glove box, such as the method of suicide like drugs. She was not so far off her intended route which suggests she did set out to go to the game that day. And of course all the evidence LE has that they haven't released.

My personal theory is that this was an accidental fire that was secondary to the cause of death that was not suicide: possibilities including drug overdose, heart attack, mechanical issues with her car. She had smoked in the past.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

In my opinion, she was the only target. In the perps mind, mission accomplished. Therefore, no danger to anyone else. This is a complex crime to solve but I do not believe it is unsolvable. The perp will become over confident and cocky, make a mistake, let something slip, raise suspicions, etc. LE is biding their time and will be well prepared to nail the perp to a wall when the time comes.

Send us a sign Kathleen so we can help you rest easy.

I agree.

This is not the only unsolved criminal case by far that remains unsolved. Iirc the last stats I read about about only 65 percent of homicide cases are solved. This means of course many of those unsolved cases may take years or even decades to solve as we have seen in other cases.

But we are seeing many hard to solve cases being solved even though it took years to do so. Thank goodness, there is no statute of limitation on murder.

This is one of those extremely difficult cases to solve, but it is solvable. Imo.

Imo, what it's going to take is the same thing it usually takes for difficult cases to finally become solved, and that is when someone will finally come forward about what they have known for years sometimes, about the suspect or suspects involved.

As long as her death is under suspicious circumstances the case will be ongoing, and will not be closed by the investigators just like it never is in any case.

Jmho

 

[owsley]

It certainly was not meant to be flippant.
Did she leave a note to anyone? Was there a will?
And this is the biggest thing and I'm going to get hammered for this.....but why take her car with her? But I tend to be too practical. (The car could have been left for one of the grands).
I'm just stating reasons why I'm leaning away from suicide. You certainly don't need to agree but I can assure you there is nothing flippant about this situation or how I see it.

I apologize. I was flippant in my assessment. Sorry for that.

Why take the car? It provided the mobility, and thus the seclusion, and the confined space -- if she did use it as some of us suspect.

 

[Razz]

I apologize. I was flippant in my assessment. Sorry for that.

Why take the car? It provided the mobility, and thus the seclusion, and the confined space -- if she did use it as some of us suspect.

I meant, why would she use her car to kill herself while destroying it in the process, but I can't really know what
was going on inside her head.

If you go back to the beginning of this thread, there have been legitimate arguements why this could have been a suicide, why it could not, why it could have been a homocide, why it couldn't, what may have happened and why.

I agree with @Curiousobserver that we may never know and he/she listed reasons why. As much as I feel that whatever happened was tragic, I am backing off suicide for the reasons I listed.

 

[owsley]

If you go back to the beginning of this thread, there have been legitimate arguements why this could have been a suicide, why it could not, why it could have been a homocide, why it couldn't, what may have happened and why.

Why could it not have been a suicide? (Or a homicide for that matter.)

 

[OnlyFacts]

Everyone has their own opinion. Mine is that suicide is ridiculous.

 

[owsley]

Everyone has their own opinion. Mine is that suicide is ridiculous.

What interests me is why others hold the opinions that they do; why, then, ridiculous?

 

[OnlyFacts]

Suicide statistics from AFSP

Firearms 50.6 %
Suffocation 27.7%
Poisoning 13.9 %
Other 7.8%

 

[Detectivediva]

Suicide statistics from AFSP

Firearms 50.6 %
Suffocation 27.7%
Poisoning 13.9 %
Other 7.8%

Yes suicide by self immolation is less than 1% in the U.S. (but as high as 40% in other countries).

Source:
Why Do People Commit Suicide by Fire?

 

[kirkassoc]

Has it been stated that LE considers this a "closed" case? I tend to believe it highly "unlikely" she committed suicide in this way. But, if given a choice (which I believe she had, if suicide), I would definitely choose water, sleeping pills, hanging, or anything over pouring gasoline on myself and striking a match. But, we have all seen in the news where people have set themselves on fire to draw attention to some sort of cause they were promoting or to make some kind of statement.

Where did she obtain the gas to do something like this? I have never carried extra gasoline in my car, but maybe some do.
Her family would know if she had quantities of gasoline in her vehicle (cans missing from garage, etc) or LE would know if she stopped somewhere on the way and filled up gas cans. They will also know whether or not she suffered with depression or if there was a new worry in her life for some reason (i.e., health issues).

To me, this is one of the most perplexing cases (along with the Dermond case) on WS. I, for one, have to wrestle with common sense in order to believe she committed suicide in this way. But there it is. I admit I haven't a clue.

 

[Joe Friday]

Has it been stated that LE considers this a "closed" case? I tend to believe it highly "unlikely" she committed suicide in this way. But, if given a choice (which I believe she had, if suicide), I would definitely choose water, sleeping pills, hanging, or anything over pouring gasoline on myself and striking a match. But, we have all seen in the news where people have set themselves on fire to draw attention to some sort of cause they were promoting or to make some kind of statement.

Where did she obtain the gas to do something like this? I have never carried extra gasoline in my car, but maybe some do.
Her family would know if she had quantities of gasoline in her vehicle (cans missing from garage, etc) or LE would know if she stopped somewhere on the way and filled up gas cans. They will also know whether or not she suffered with depression or if there was a new worry in her life for some reason (i.e., health issues).

To me, this is one of the most perplexing cases (along with the Dermond case) on WS. I, for one, have to wrestle with common sense in order to believe she committed suicide in this way. But there it is. I admit I haven't a clue.

There has been no conformation that gasoline was used in this case or at least that information has never been made public. I would think if an accelerate was used the Fire Department would been able to detect that. One would think they would have tested for it. If you poured gas over yourself inside of a car with the windows closed it would likely cause an explosion when ignited. The force from the explosion would buckle the roof and blow most if not all of the windows out. Glass from the windows would be propelled away from the car. Glass lying ten or fifteen feet from a car burning car would not be normal had the car just started on fire or had been set on fire not using an accelerate.

Someone planning on buying gas to pour over themselves doesn't need to use a 'red gas can', any container would do such as a soda bottle or even a travel mug. If she did stop that day to purchase gas and paid cash there would be no record of the purchase on her bank account to lead LE in that direction. It would be impossible to look through every gas stations video footage from Milwalkee to Gurnee IL to see if she stopped somewhere that day to purchase gas.

She very well could have pulled into the driveway, got into the passenger seat, left the car running because it was cold outside, took some pills and passed out and the car started on fire on it's own perhaps from vegetation under the car. She was incapacitated at the time and didn't exit the car and her body was consumed by the fire. But apparently the toxicology report didn't show any drugs in her system or there was not a good enough sample of tissue to conclude that from the test.

My first inclination when I read about the time difference between when Kathleen was supposed to arrive at the game and when the burning car was found was maybe a candle was used to start the car on fire. Candle burns down and eventually starts a fire.

JMO

 

[NervousNellie]

My first inclination when I read about the time difference between when Kathleen was supposed to arrive at the game and when the burning car was found was maybe a candle was used to start the car on fire. Candle burns down and eventually starts a fire.

JMO

RSBM

A candle can burn down and burn out, also. Uncontrolled fire is not guaranteed just because a candle is allowed to burn down.

 

[owsley]

When reading of a homicide, people rarely say, "Well, that's not how I would have murdered him."

So I find it odd that, when reading of a suicide, people reply, "Well, that's not how I would kill myself."

And then expect that reply to be viewed as a logical argument against the possibility.

(Possible suicide, I should say.)

Also, even if less than 1% in this country choose fire, that's still quite a few Americans; in 2016 there were about 45,000 suicides here.

It's illogical to say that, since the percentages are low, this eliminates the possibility.

The main thing that makes me think this is a suicide? LE's reaction to it six months on.

 

[owsley]

When reading of a homicide, people rarely say, "Well, that's not how I would have murdered him."

So I find it odd that, when reading of a suicide, people reply, "Well, that's not how I would kill myself."

And then expect that reply to be viewed as a logical argument against the possibility.

(Possible suicide, I should say.)

Also, even if less than 1% in this country choose fire, that's still quite a few Americans; in 2016 there were about 45,000 suicides here.

It's illogical to say that, since the percentages are low, this eliminates the possibility.

(Particularly if a person died alone by fire, in a private setting like this one.)

The main thing that makes me think this is a suicide? LE's reaction to it six months on.

 

[kirkassoc]

There has been no conformation that gasoline was used in this case or at least that information has never been made public. I would think if an accelerate was used the Fire Department would been able to detect that. One would think they would have tested for it. If you poured gas over yourself inside of a car with the windows closed it would likely cause an explosion when ignited. The force from the explosion would buckle the roof and blow most if not all of the windows out. Glass from the windows would be propelled away from the car. Glass lying ten or fifteen feet from a car burning car would not be normal had the car just started on fire or had been set on fire not using an accelerate.

Someone planning on buying gas to pour over themselves doesn't need to use a 'red gas can', any container would do such as a soda bottle or even a travel mug. If she did stop that day to purchase gas and paid cash there would be no record of the purchase on her bank account to lead LE in that direction. It would be impossible to look through every gas stations video footage from Milwalkee to Gurnee IL to see if she stopped somewhere that day to purchase gas.

She very well could have pulled into the driveway, got into the passenger seat, left the car running because it was cold outside, took some pills and passed out and the car started on fire on it's own perhaps from vegetation under the car. She was incapacitated at the time and didn't exit the car and her body was consumed by the fire. But apparently the toxicology report didn't show any drugs in her system or there was not a good enough sample of tissue to conclude that from the test.

My first inclination when I read about the time difference between when Kathleen was supposed to arrive at the game and when the burning car was found was maybe a candle was used to start the car on fire. Candle burns down and eventually starts a fire.

JMO

I don't know why I thought an accelerant was used? Perhaps because her body was burned beyond recognition? Couldn't tell the sex of the occupant? If no accelerant was used, how did everything burn up like that? This makes it even more perplexing that there was no accelerant used. I cannot imagine! If that was my Mom, Sis, Daughter, etc., I would want some answers. Perhaps the family knows much more than we will ever be privy to. Such a sad story for such a "picture perfect life. "

 

[Kittybunny]

Scenarios I find least likely - an accidental death or completely random carjacking. I'm 50-50 on suicide vs foul play by someone who knows her. (I was about 1% suicide before, but agree silence by LE and family pushes that probability higher).

I lean towards there having been an accelerant and that it just hasn't been released publicly. In my mind, the presence of accelerant and any indications of purchase are the biggest determining factors as to whether I believe she committed suicide or foul play was involved.

In the case of suicide, I would expect that there was the use of accelerant, and some record of purchase or container at some point, either at a gas station or something found in the car. Arson investigators should be able to find some evidence, even in a very destructive fire.

In the case of foul play, I would expect that there may or may not have been accelerant but if there was, the assailant took any containers with them so as to not leave evidence linking back to them.