WI WI - Kelly Dwyer, 27, Milwaukee, 11 Oct 2013 - #1

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You would need to see the entire contents of the warrant. If the original charge included "drugs w/ intent to deliver" or however WI UCC defines it, the warrant most likely covered the scope of "accessing any electronic device which may contain material that is commonly used to maintain record keeping" JMO from submitting 100s of warrant requests. Do we even know what the warrant was in regards to? If the judge signed a warrant in regards to searching for evidence that may provide info on a missing person, than mostly anything and everything is fair game. There was probably no scope of limitations.
Okay was reading the complaint which generalizes it. Apparently it was execution of a second warrant unrelated to the drugs (apparently having to do with the disappearance). Unfortunately, like you mentioned, one would need to read the actual warrant to know the scope, but all warrants are required to specify what the scope of it is. The complaint states that several discs of pornographic material were found and the drive (in its box, apparently). While they began to review them and found CP and obviously got further warrants at that point, the honest question would be whether or not their initial warrant actually included digital media in the format it was in. Will be interesting to see what happens in court over this all, like the explanations and such.

What really bothers me is the way things are focusing. Like limiting PoIs. Sure, the guy is not a good guy, but his charges don't exactly equate to disappearing somebody. I pondered before about how many exits the building has, and what actual surveillance covers there. I don't think a guy who has allegedly been running a drug house and in possession of CP would do something to draw this much attention to himself without a decent alibi, especially if he is (apparently) smart enough to make her simply disappear from his apartment without a trace. He straight up admitted she was there, and even admitted to purchasing drugs and doing them (with her). That's a lot to admit when he could have said she left the night before, or didn't come back to his place, or anything like that. It's easy to focus on him because of other charges, but at the same time it's ignoring other possibilities.

Still want to know about that last text she sent and the guy she sent it to, especially since that number got disconnect right after her mom called. That still seems incredibly odd to me.
 
Search and seizure can be tricky. For instance, lets suppose a judge signs a warrant to search a residence for a stolen 50" TV. Only the areas of the residence that can be searched are those which could reasonably contain a TV. You couldn't search a desk drawer. On the other side, let's say the warrant is for locating a stolen ring. Basically the entire residence where a ring could be stored is searchable. Which essentially means ANYWHERE. Warrants depend on the creative writing of the person requesting it, and the generosity of the of the judge who signs it.
True, but it's not just the "where" it's the "what" of it. If a warrant says you can look for a stolen ring, you can look anywhere for the stolen ring, but you can't grab all the electronics in the house assuming they "might" be stolen as well, just to check the serial numbers, since they certainly don't fit the description of a ring. Obviously these examples are over-simplified, but in this case the issue would be whether what was seized could reasonably considered to be evidence (for seizure) regarding what the warrant was issued for or not.
 
KZ is determined and smart. He also has an attitude about cops...he doesn't respect or like them very much (in general). IF he did decide to run, I could see him being successful at it to some degree. He might give it a shot if he thinks he'll be spending the rest of his life in prison. Why not? At the same time, I have a feeling he thinks he can be exonerated of all charges (they will point to lack of evidence...that would be a term he would like). If that is indeed his feeling, he won't run.

I'm starting to get the feeling that KZ is a pretty arrogant guy. He doesn't respect cops & thinks he can beat the charges. MKE2013 can you comment on this?
Also the comment that why wouldn't you run rather than do the time for the crime. Is that his attitude or yours?
 
True, but it's not just the "where" it's the "what" of it. If a warrant says you can look for a stolen ring, you can look anywhere for the stolen ring, but you can't grab all the electronics in the house assuming they "might" be stolen as well, just to check the serial numbers, since they certainly don't fit the description of a ring. Obviously these examples are over-simplified, but in this case the issue would be whether what was seized could reasonably considered to be evidence (for seizure) regarding what the warrant was issued for or not.

You're right, it is over-simplified. Why would they check the serial numbers of electronics? They obviously don't think the ring is in the electronics.

I guess my over-simplified explanation of how evidence discovered of another crime other than what the warrant is specifically written for depends on the variables of WHAT that specific thing may be, is just that: over-simplified.
 
Okay was reading the complaint which generalizes it. Apparently it was execution of a second warrant unrelated to the drugs (apparently having to do with the disappearance). Unfortunately, like you mentioned, one would need to read the actual warrant to know the scope, but all warrants are required to specify what the scope of it is. The complaint states that several discs of pornographic material were found and the drive (in its box, apparently). While they began to review them and found CP and obviously got further warrants at that point, the honest question would be whether or not their initial warrant actually included digital media in the format it was in. Will be interesting to see what happens in court over this all, like the explanations and such.

What really bothers me is the way things are focusing. Like limiting PoIs. Sure, the guy is not a good guy, but his charges don't exactly equate to disappearing somebody. I pondered before about how many exits the building has, and what actual surveillance covers there. I don't think a guy who has allegedly been running a drug house and in possession of CP would do something to draw this much attention to himself without a decent alibi, especially if he is (apparently) smart enough to make her simply disappear from his apartment without a trace. He straight up admitted she was there, and even admitted to purchasing drugs and doing them (with her). That's a lot to admit when he could have said she left the night before, or didn't come back to his place, or anything like that. It's easy to focus on him because of other charges, but at the same time it's ignoring other possibilities.

Still want to know about that last text she sent and the guy she sent it to, especially since that number got disconnect right after her mom called. That still seems incredibly odd to me.

Limiting POIs?.. Who is limiting POIs?.. And how exactly is it that anyone(other than those working on this active investigation/case) would know that POIs have been limited to Kris Zocco?..

My point very simply is that the only reason we know(as in the public) that there is this "focus" on Kris Zocco is due to the fact that he was the last known person to be with Kelly Dwyer alive...which led to of course his being investigated.. In the process of that investigation Kris Zocco's multiple other illegal activities came to light...<<---all of this is public knowledge thus the reason that we know who Kris Zocco is, and that he is not only charged with these multiple other illegal activities, but also remains a POI in Kelly's "disappearance"(and might I add with damn good reason, IMO)..

There is nothing at all indicating that this LE are solely, and only focused on Kris Zocco.. Imo this LE does not have some type of inappropriate tunnel vision going on where Kris Zocco is concerned, not at all, imo.. With just the little that is known to us, the public, this LE would be absolutely negligent and failing at their job if they were not focused on Kris Zocco at this point in time..and imo that focus will remain until there is evidence pointing away(ie.that rules out his involvement) from Kris Zocco's involvement in Kelly's "disappearance".. IMO that's just SOP on how any Missing Person investigation is handled..

IMO there is very good reason that Kris Zocco is a POI and at this point remains a focus of this LE regarding Kelly's "disappearance".. I do however believe that if there are indicators of other possibilities of how/who is responsible for Kelly 's disappearance that this LE is absolutely focusing and investigating those people/angles as well.. But Imo the fact remains that Kris Zocco is the correct place where the investigation starts with his being the last place/person that saw Kelly Dwyer alive(the warrant clearly states that the last place Kelly was, was KZ's apt)..the investigation starts there and works its way out.. When the evidence starts/stops with that person the focus is going to remain there(and again IMO with just the little that we do know I absolutely agree that LE's focus should continue on KZ)..

**Please forgive the limitations that come w/my posting via mobile ATM**
 
Limiting POIs?.. Who is limiting POIs?.. And how exactly is it that anyone(other than those working on this active investigation/case) would know that POIs have been limited to Kris Zocco?..

My point very simply is that the only reason we know(as in the public) that there is this "focus" on Kris Zocco is due to the fact that he was the last known person to be with Kelly Dwyer alive...which led to of course his being investigated.. In the process of that investigation Kris Zocco's multiple other illegal activities came to light...<<---all of this is public knowledge thus the reason that we know who Kris Zocco is, and that he is not only charged with these multiple other illegal activities, but also remains a POI in Kelly's "disappearance"(and might I add with damn good reason, IMO)..

There is nothing at all indicating that this LE are solely, and only focused on Kris Zocco.. Imo this LE does not have some type of inappropriate tunnel vision going on where Kris Zocco is concerned, not at all, imo.. With just the little that is known to us, the public, this LE would be absolutely negligent and failing at their job if they were not focused on Kris Zocco at this point in time..and imo that focus will remain until there is evidence pointing away(ie.that rules out his involvement) from Kris Zocco's involvement in Kelly's "disappearance".. IMO that's just SOP on how any Missing Person investigation is handled..

IMO there is very good reason that Kris Zocco is a POI and at this point remains a focus of this LE regarding Kelly's "disappearance".. I do however believe that if there are indicators of other possibilities of how/who is responsible for Kelly 's disappearance that this LE is absolutely focusing and investigating those people/angles as well.. But Imo the fact remains that Kris Zocco is the correct place where the investigation starts with his being the last place/person that saw Kelly Dwyer alive(the warrant clearly states that the last place Kelly was, was KZ's apt)..the investigation starts there and works its way out.. When the evidence starts/stops with that person the focus is going to remain there(and again IMO with just the little that we do know I absolutely agree that LE's focus should continue on KZ)..

**Please forgive the limitations that come w/my posting via mobile ATM**
I guess it's because I've seen a lot of cases where officers bring up charges against somebody, and when there isn't sufficient evidence to convict, just close the file because, in their opinion, there is no other option. Obviously, I'm not talking about where the evidence is ignored, or what have you, but where there is little, if any, to go on. For instance, where I live (literally across a stream) there was a murder several years back. Despite the fact that he lived 4 hours away and had an alibi, the police accused her estranged husband. When he was (obviously) found not guilty, the police refused to even bother looking for another killer. You see it with wrongly imprisoned persons as well, who are exhonerated through new evidence, yet those who put them away still insist they "got the right guy." Now, not saying KZ is innocent (I wouldn't know), or even necessarily that LE are just focusing, just wondering out loud what is being followed up on.
 
Does Scott Peterson come to anyone's mind besides me?

Unbelievable! I'm catching up as I was out yesterday. When I read the idea of suicide, my first reaction was KZ isn't the type. After my first impression, I thought, but 'what do I know?'. After that, I thought, depends on if KZ is a narcissist, like Scott Peterson, or not!

What if Kelli told KZ she was or thought she might be pregnant. The idea doesn't go along with her partaking in drugs but she may not have, telling KZ the reason why she wasn't going to that night. We only have his word about the drugs anyway. Wait, nix, depending on if she had been drinking heavily or not at the restaurant. Someone there, since she was a regular, would probably know if Kelly imbibed or not Thursday night. If she didn't, or only had one, it may have stood out to the bartender giving credence to this theory. That would be a piece of the puzzle leading LE to doubt KZ's story too.
 
Unbelievable! I'm catching up as I was out yesterday. When I read the idea of suicide, my first reaction was KZ isn't the type. After my first impression, I thought, but 'what do I know?'. After that, I thought, depends on if KZ is a narcissist, like Scott Peterson, or not!

What if Kelli told KZ she was or thought she might be pregnant. The idea doesn't go along with her partaking in drugs but she may not have, telling KZ the reason why she wasn't going to that night. We only have his word about the drugs anyway. Wait, nix, depending on if she had been drinking heavily or not at the restaurant. Someone there, since she was a regular, would probably know if Kelli imbibed or not Thursday night. If she didn't, or only had one, it may have stood out to the bartender giving credence to this theory. That would be a piece of the puzzle leading LE to doubt KZ's story too.

KZ does not have a Scott Peterson type personality, in my opinion.

I actually never thought of the pregnancy theory but that is VERY plausible. I do remember that he once said that a lot of guys start to think about having kids around 37-38. So, if she was pregnant, it wouldn't be ideal but it's not like he had a wife and kids already. He could break up with his real girlfriend and deal with the situation or keep the real gf and try to keep it a secret. I don't think he would have been upset to the degree that you're suggesting. KZ is also not financially greedy. He doesn't care about money that much and is a generous person and paying child support would not be the end of the world for him. He's the type to throw money at a problem so he doesn't have to deal with it.
 
I'm starting to get the feeling that KZ is a pretty arrogant guy. He doesn't respect cops & thinks he can beat the charges. MKE2013 can you comment on this?
Also the comment that why wouldn't you run rather than do the time for the crime. Is that his attitude or yours?

Anything I say about KZ is my best guess only. Yes, I've known him for years and used to be very close to him. Still, I certainly don't know everything that goes through his mind.

He's not really that arrogant of a person (at least he doesn't come across that way). He is actually self-deprecating and funny. He can be cranky and has a bit of a temper but those are probably the worst things I can say about my exposure to him. Oh, and the lies. He definitely struggles with telling the truth on a consistent basis. I don't know why. Most of the lies were stupid and pointless.
 
Was the search planned for Saturday, today?

Or for Saturday, next weekend, November 16th?

TIA...:seeya:

ETA... Jeez... :doh:... I just re-read the posts above... search was for Saturday... Today... wonder if any clues were found? :waitasec:

FYI... I was googling a search for Kelly at the McKinley Marina yesterday...

found nothing..:(

maybe LE will be searching today, too?.... Or instead of yesterday?

:dunno:

Here is the mention of the marina search:



WBG - can you tell us where you found this?

Sorry for taking so long to answer folks.
Other than when the landfill search was discontinued recently, I've not run across any media reports about searches being conducted by LE.

I read about the search of the marina on the find Kelli FB page late on Saturday after the search was probably already over for the day. The missing FB isn't against TOS but I'm unsure, when LE isn't organizing a search, how to refer to it here. Other cases, where searches are run by volunteers, have been widely supported and advertised. Not sure what's going on with this case, but wanted to point out that someone seems to be putting effort behind searching for a possibly discarded Kelly.

IMO it's good to know someone is looking. I wonder if people came out to help search the marina.
I haven't checked the FB again since Saturday. Even if searchers found something, they mark it and call LE, so we may not hear about the results if there were any at all.

Haven't seen anything about a search planned for November 16th.
 
True, but it's not just the "where" it's the "what" of it. If a warrant says you can look for a stolen ring, you can look anywhere for the stolen ring, but you can't grab all the electronics in the house assuming they "might" be stolen as well, just to check the serial numbers, since they certainly don't fit the description of a ring. Obviously these examples are over-simplified, but in this case the issue would be whether what was seized could reasonably considered to be evidence (for seizure) regarding what the warrant was issued for or not.

What I can't fathom is why anybody would be disappointed or argue about the legitimacy of a search when child *advertiser censored* is discovered. Who cares as long as it is found and one more person is stopped from perpetuating this crime.
I realize a fair investigation is required to validate that the perp is the perp (or perv), but who cares why LE found the *advertiser censored*? We know why but why care about the nitty gritties? In order to protect people who enjoy viewing and/or selling *advertiser censored* of real living children?
Certain examples, citing a person's rights, cause Woe confusion as to why laws are needed/created in the first place. Whose rights are being violated here, in the case of child *advertiser censored*?

I get the point about LE making errors and the falsely accused and that one crime doesn't prove another crime. But,
KZ is the witness who told Kelly's mother that he saw Kelly on the street outside his apartment building Friday morning. Why would he make that claim when Kelly can't be seen leaving his building? The mother's comments were raw yet she didn't accuse anyone. The media reported later that the person who made the claim was KZ.
 
What I can't fathom is why anybody would be disappointed or argue about the legitimacy of a search when child *advertiser censored* is discovered. Who cares as long as it is found and one more person is stopped from perpetuating this crime.
I realize a fair investigation is required to validate that the perp is the perp (or perv), but who cares why LE found the *advertiser censored*? We know why but why care about the nitty gritties? In order to protect people who enjoy viewing and/or selling *advertiser censored* of real living children?
Certain examples, citing a person's rights, cause Woe confusion as to why laws are needed/created in the first place. Whose rights are being violated here, in the case of child *advertiser censored*?
Oh, we were just discussing the reasoning he might use for a defense. If they found CP because of improper procedure (i.e. grabbing things on a warrant if they weren't covered by the warrant and looking at them before deciding to get the CP warrant), it isn't considered valid evidence, and as far as a conviction goes it wouldn't matter that they found it at all because as far as "evidence" is concerned, that'd be all they have. A very scary thought.

I get the point about LE making errors and the falsely accused and that one crime doesn't prove another crime. But,
KZ is the witness who told Kelli's mother that he saw Kelli on the street outside his apartment building Friday morning. Why would he make that claim when Kelli can't be seen leaving his building? The mother's comments were raw yet she didn't accuse anyone. The media reported later that the person who made the claim was KZ.
Well, right, but KZ also said she had spent the night there. Why even say she had come into the building? I honestly wish somebody knew the building a bit better. Like I mentioned before, it's quite possible that cameras only watch the main entrance and that there are other exits without cameras. The reports I read only say entering and (not) leaving the building as opposed to his apartment, which would imply that there aren't cameras in every hall showing all the doors, and a lot of buildings have doors that are exit-only that they don't bother to watch with cameras since they don't expect people to be coming in them.

Edit: Especially given that mke2013 said that he has a habit of lying.
 
My head is in a bad place today so I'm having trouble concentrating.
Just realized I spelled Kelly "Kelli" in all my posts today. Another case I follow involves Kelli Bordeaux who is missing from nearby Fort Bragg, NC.

My spelling error clicked when I went to the official Find Kelly Dwyer FB page to see what height info the flyer there has on it ~ 5'7". Not sure who made her shorter, as I remember Kelly described as 5'7" from the start because that's my height too.

Imo, depending on bone structure, at 5'7" a woman isn't considered big or fat at 145 pounds. Unless a size medium or ten is considered fat. At 138 lbs. some smalls and eights fit well too. Since older, the stomach area becomes harder to keep in check which is really annoying. Oh, and one's butt gets smaller! lol! (Maybe I'll try wearing my pants backwards!).
 
I googled LaFayette Floor Plans... I hope these are the correct buildings... and I hope it is okay that I have posted links here...

http://www.lafayetteva.com/p/apartm...olk-va-23508/lafayette-towers-apartments-6945

http://www.lafayette-towers.com/Apartments/module/property_floorplans/property[id]/33476/

According to the links, these are in Norfolk, VA and Detroit, MI respectively.

Imo, depending on bone structure, at 5'7" a woman isn't considered big or fat at 145 pounds. Unless a size medium or ten is considered fat. At 138 lbs. some smalls and eights fit well too. Since older, the stomach area becomes harder to keep in check which is really annoying. Oh, and one's butt gets smaller! lol! (Maybe I'll try wearing my pants backwards!).
Yeah, I didn't personally think she was very big. But then, I'm the only person in my family who hasn't hit 200 lbs.
 
Oh, and the lies. He definitely struggles with telling the truth on a consistent basis. I don't know why. Most of the lies were stupid and pointless.

I'm not sure this little tidbit has come out before but it could be significant...alleged drug user and child *advertiser censored* possessor, POI in missing person case, and now habitual liar. It all kinda fits IMO.

Lying to Kelly could have led to all manner of conflicts with her (and a possible motive for her disappearance) and lying to LE (which he was probably inclined to do if there was any culpability on his part) is a great way to dig a deeper hole for yourself.

It appears KZ is his own worst enemy - JMO.
 
http://www.bizjournals.com/milwauke...7/08/finally-a-clear-view-park-lafayette.html

When I googled KZ's Milwaukee address (post 121) the above article came up.

I checked to see if the apt. building where KZ lives has an indoor parking garage.
Between the two towers, there's a garage. The article explains some problems the building had.
Since 2011, the probs have been addressed and units intended as condos are being rented out instead.

Therefore, if KZ has a car, he may have driven out of the garage with Kelly inside his vehicle.
What if he lied to LE about owning a car?
Just like we previously discussed the trash chute/garbage room/trash system as a possible way to remove Kelly from the building, why wouldn't it be possible to remove her via the garage?


http://www.mandelgroup.com/apartments/apartment_detail.cfm?n_id=101

Private secure storage available too. Has LE checked that out, with dogs? Underground parking too.

I thought there was another link for the apartments posted earlier too. Now I can't find it.

Also I recall someone posting he had the penthouse but I don't believe that's true. I'm unsure why now - just something I noticed before - he's on the 18th floor but the building has 20 floors iirc.
 
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