WI WI - Kelly Nolan, 22, Madison, 23 June 2007 #1

[angarella]

I was very much hoping for a different outcome in this case. My prayers to Kelly's family. Rest in Peace Kelly.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Sometimes LE will even give out, I won't say lies, but mis-information to "play" a suspect. You must remember it's a delicate balance. Anyway, Enough about the media.

Law Enforcement. After reading these 10 pages it is clear to me that many of you think LE is inept at their job. Nothing could be further from the truth. These investigators have years of college training, years of expirience and the latest technology. There are many factors and variables that must be considered before, during, and after an investigation. It is not as simple as you might think.

If something you read in the papers doesn't make sense, that just tells me LE is doing their job.

In closing I would just like to say...have a little confidence in the LE in this country. They are better than you think...

Welcome to the forum, Whisky! I am sure your insight to LE and the media will come in handy. Glad you chipped in!

I am not naive to either, however. In working with both over the years, it has helped shaped my opinions. No one ever said LE had a simple task to perform in what they do. I agree most of the LE officers of this country are well educated, experienced, and try to entertain the latest technologies. Common sense is still the greatest tool they possess in their vast knowledge of Criminal Justice and they should use it.

I must say I have never been keen on use of misinformation to the public in any way from any source. It breeds mistrust when the public realizes they were misled. Our overall criminal justice system carries with it a definite responsibility to be law abiding and honest which, unfortunately, we do not always see to be the case. The end does not always justify the means, in my opinion.

America's Most Wanted is one of the most viable groups working with both LE and the media. They get the information out to the public and the public helps put the perp where he/she belongs. This should show LE how vital it is to include the public in investigations from the beginning. How many people have they put away because John Q. Public stepped forward to solve their case and/or bring the missing home? Common sense prevails here.

Why wait until the trail has gone cold or our children are dead before LE realizes the right way to do things is to include the people (the public) who can stop things BEFORE they happen while there is still time? I, for one, am sick and tired of the statistics being what they are in this nation of well educated, experienced, and technologically savy Law Enforcement officers who aren't willing to understand the best way to fight crime in this day and age is to include the people who have to live with it daily who can STOP it immediately if they are given a chance to do the right thing by alerting them via the media. (Thank Goodness for the Amber Alert System now!)

It is clear to me you have only been here long enough to read 10 pages and I would love to invite you to stick around to read a thousand plus more. We do understand how things work, but maybe you will understand why we are here and why we are frustrated with the way things have not and are not working.

In the meantime, another family gets to bury another dead woman while LE "works" the case.

 

[JimNikki]

First, I think it's great that people are talking about this and other cases. I get the feeling that you all have good intentions about what you do or what you say. I think you're really trying to help. The problem is, that many of you simply don't understand how a criminal investigation works, and the ONLY information you have is that of which you read in the media. That information is days/weeks behind the investigation.

I would generally agree. However, until yesterday, it wasn't a criminal investigation...was it? Most of what you've read over the past 10 pages would relate to a missing person's case in which we (the public) were asked for help. While people, including myself, speculated on the 'facts' as presented, I believe virtually everyone is aware it's LE's job is to find out what happened, and I don't think anyone was ever saying they were inept, although it may appear that way to many because ours was to help find her and there didn't seem to be much help from LE in relation to the task they asked of the public as they seemed to continually water the urgency down.

The media is more about coverage. Most media outlets have an agenda. I can't and won't take the time to explain it further. Take it with a grain of salt. The news media also feels they are entitled to priviledged information, and that if they pressure enough people they will get what they want. So in an attempt to appease the media, LE releases bits of info, keeping in mind that they need to save something for the next time the media cries. If it were up to me, I wouldn't release ANYTHING unless it were to HELP in the investigation.

I believe everyone understands the media and their sensationalist need(s) to sell papers/forward an agenda/meet the slant of the story they are writing. In this specific case, however, the media isn't what got everyone questioning LE...it was the words straight out of their mouths that did.

Law Enforcement. After reading these 10 pages it is clear to me that many of you think LE is inept at their job.

Blanket statement & not accurate. What many feel is that, in this case, LE was indeed more concerned with the potential for embarrassment than they were with finding Kelly and that is what kept it a mystery for so long despite what appears to many, some pretty obvious red flags.

Madison's LE made it very, very, very, very clear they believed this was a missing person's case from the first day they asked for the public's help to the last, not the media... The media took that insistence, which doesn't sell, and made it about the lifestyle of the victim...which falls under the "coverage" blanket you speak of.

Very early on LE also made it very clear they were not going to be "fooled" again:

>>>The last time a local missing person garnered national attention was in 2004 when Audrey Seiler's fake disappearance became national news story and later a notorious one."I'm not sure that we've ever seen anything in Madison like Audrey Seiler, and I think that there is no interest on the department's behalf that this becomes a spectacle like Audrey Seiler," said DeSpain.<<<

I'm not going to pull up every quote made by LE, but there are many that lead to the perception of a very casual attitude towards the investigation by LE...including the mystery 'positive' news the family received (I believe) July 3rd which (at least perceptually in the minds of many in the public) confirmed what the media was implying...that this was more of a lifestyle issue than an actual individual in danger. Perhaps that was their intention.

If LE intended to mislead or confuse any potential suspects with their statements regarding this specific case, there is no doubt they did it successfully..as virtually every new development confused virtually everyone that followed the case which can be proven by the 2 threads, 10+ pages...and these are the people that WANTED it solved and actively did what they could with that limited information to help.

Unfortunately, people searching for Kelly heard it every day from people as they handed out posters. Oh, she probably just took off for awhile. Oh, I heard she's an alcoholic, etc.

Bottom line, if there is a perception of ineptitude on LE by the public regarding this case (here or at the local coffee shops), it was either put there by LE itself intentionally or was actual. Nobody (that I'm aware of) here made it up nor does anyone here think LE in this country is inept...Including me. It is just hard to shake the feeling that we/I/anyone who was out looking could've done more early on to get the tips in faster and perhaps both find Kelly alive and well and prosecute anyone involved in her disappearance with consistent, basic (not all) information.

Please don't take it as a blanket opinion on all of LE. That couldn't be further from the truth. IMO, it was LE's PR in relation to this specific case that caused that perception, not the public. Obviously, LE knows what they're doing.

No disrespect intended, just another point of view.

 

[snarkymalarkey]

Yes and did you see this: "Paras has said the employee's intention was to get Nolan to her downtown apartment, but the restaurant worker deferred to another man, who claimed to be Nolan's friend."

It sounds as if kelly was so drunk she was unable to say whether the guy was a friend or not.

I thought this too...but she called her sister at some point to say where she was? I wonder how much time elapsed between phonecall and "friend" claiming to know her.

 

[Trino]

Why wait until the trail has gone cold or our children are dead before LE realizes the right way to do things is to include the people (the public) who can stop things BEFORE they happen while there is still time? I, for one, am sick and tired of the statistics being what they are in this nation of well educated, experienced, and technologically savy Law Enforcement officers who aren't willing to understand the best way to fight crime in this day and age is to include the people who have to live with it daily who can STOP it immediately if they are given a chance to do the right thing by alerting them via the media. (Thank Goodness for the Amber Alert System now!)

It is clear to me you have only been here long enough to read 10 pages and I would love to invite you to stick around to read a thousand plus more. We do understand how things work, but you will understand why we are here and why we are frustrated with the way things have not and are not working. In the meantime, another family gets to bury another dead woman while LE "works" the case.

Although there certainly are good-guy cops, since the late 1960's, TV and civil right riots, LE has never recovered the good guy image and respect they once commanded. In most cases they interact with the public in a brisk, matter-of-fact, slam-bang-thank-you persona, leaving the feeling that the public is not knowledgeable enough to offer help to their expertise. Most LE offer little empathy or sympathy - just go about their jobs.

The bottom line is you're on your own to protect yourself against crime; LE's job has become "after the fact," since in most cases LE arrives after a crime has taken place. The best they can then do is try to put the missing pieces together, which hopefully will be the case with the Kelly Nolan murder.

 

[cheko1]

I must agree with everyones opinion of LE.......

We would of loved to of had Kelly found alive & well. I would of been very glad to of heard she was found in any other condition except for dead. She became a statistic, now since LE is / was so convinced they had the answers that she was just gone / instead of kidnapped & murdered they have a job to do. Lets hope they arrest someone soon & Kelly's case doesn't go into the Cold Case file with so many others in Wi.

I hope more then anything they find whoever did this to her. Her family needs closure. They went along with LE to sway people from talking. Poor April took a verbal beating for withholding contents of her last phone call with Kelly. April if you read this I am very very sorry for what I said.

Everyone here wants the end result to be an arrest & conviction of the murderer. Now LE has its chance to prove to the public they can & are capable of doing there jobs.

As a taxpayer in Wi I feel its time for our elected officals to put pressure on people to do the jobs they're being paid to do. Not just push paper work into the Cold Case files. We have many unsolved murders & people who need arrested & put away where they belong. Instead they are allowed to walk among us & thumb there noses at LE.

As a resident it sickens me that LE makes an arrest, the person goes to court & is released on bond, only to find out there were several warrants out for the jerks arrest. He laughs his rear off at LE for being so stupid. Been 4 yrs now & he still runs free

 

[UCFAlumni2002]

I think the biggest issue is that when someone 18 or older goes missing, it's automatically assumed that he/she just needed to "get away" rather then he/she might have been abducted. Look at now 26 year old Jennifer Kesse... when she vanished in Jan. 2006, it took two days for LE to find her car, which was parked a little over a mile from her home. Until they found her car, they felt that she just "needed to get away" or had a "fight with her boyfriend" or what not. Also with all the various reporting requirements, sometimes you have to wait for over 72 hours before being able to report a missing person and even when you do, it has to be an immediate family member... not a friend, roommate, boyfriend, coworker, etc. The laws need to change and they need to change soon. It honestly would be better for every case to be treated as a missing persons case since we all know the first 48 hours are crucial.

My prayers go out to Kelly's family and may the memories they hold of Kelly get them thru this difficult time.

Still praying for Jennifer Kesse, her family and friends and for the miracle everyone wants. Expect Miracles...

 

[fran]

It appears there is much frustration with LE about the information given out prior to them finding the victim's body. (has it been confirmed?) But, they were between a rock and a hard place with this case, if you ask me. There was the possibility that Kelly was off on her own, yet the possibility also that she was truly, 'missing,' ie without her consent.

If you look at the last presser given, where a LE officer spoke, not the spokesman, but LE, they said they had been looking at SEVERAL locations, and the final location where they ended up was the most probable. He even said it was 'the pings' that led to the location but he also said he wouldn't give out the exact 'form' of how they used the pings.

IMHO, LE can't give out every single bit of information they have as often times it's something only LE knows AND the perp, that ends up getting him caught and yes, convicted. Whatever Kelly said to her sister is known by LE, her sister, and most probably the perp as well. So, EXACTLY what was said in that last phone call wasn't necessary for the public to be on the look-out for Kelly.

LE already said they're going to go back and reinterview everyone. IMHO, LE already might have a POI, but they don't want to 'tip' him off that they're on to him. Just like in the SP case where everyone was criticizing MPD for their lack of keeping tabs on SP before he was arrested,..........little did we know that they were following him and tapping him the whole time!

I too hope they are able to catch this person. Whether this is his first kill or not, let's hope it's his LAST!

JMHO
fran

 

[BethInAK]

I must agree with everyones opinion of LE.......

We would of loved to of had Kelly found alive & well. I would of been very glad to of heard she was found in any other condition except for dead. She became a statistic, now since LE is / was so convinced they had the answers that she was just gone / instead of kidnapped & murdered they have a job to do. Lets hope they arrest someone soon & Kelly's case doesn't go into the Cold Case file with so many others in Wi.

So you think that when kelly's family report her missing she was alive and had the police taken her case more seriously at that time, she'd be alive now?

I think there is no reason to believe she lived beyond the night that she disappeared. Forgive me for being blunt and perhaps callous.

 

[BethInAK]

I thought this too...but she called her sister at some point to say where she was? I wonder how much time elapsed between phonecall and "friend" claiming to know her.

You are right. Perhaps the emphasis on the 'claimed to be her friend" is because he's saying that someone who would cause her death is obviously not a friend. but I do not know.

 

[Ang50]

http://wkow.madison.com/News/index.php?ID=13075

OK - now after reading this link above - I understand about Cafeguy. It seems more like it was clearly bar time (2:00am in WI) and time to leave. It also seems that Kelly really needed help to get home and might not have been able to do it on her own. So as Cafeguy is helping her outside, some other guy comes along, says he knows her, and will take her home.

Cafeguy doesn't know Kelly any better than this guy, plus maybe he still has to close down the bar, so he doesn't refuse. All plausible and certainly this guy has nothing to hide then, if he didn't do it.

 

[Ang50]

So you think that when kelly's family report her missing she was alive and had the police taken her case more seriously at that time, she'd be alive now?

I think there is no reason to believe she lived beyond the night that she disappeared. Forgive me for being blunt and perhaps callous.

I think I can speak on what cheko meant. The outcome doesn't matter or time of death. It's that she was obviously truly missing, but LE didn't necessarily treat it like that, or allowed the impression that she was gone voluntarily.

If LE had approached it differently, maybe more people would have reported suspicious things they saw that night. Maybe surveillance tapes would not have been written over.

I also believe Kelly was probably killed the same night she disappeared. However, if LE had treated it as a kidnapping/possible homicide from the beginning with the public, perhaps they'd have stronger evidence or better leads on the murderer. That's what cheko's criticizing, I believe, and I agree.

Maybe they do have someone in mind. But that someone has had almost 20 days to make plans, kill again, leave the country, lawyer up, whatever... This isn't like the Christine Rudy case where LE knew who probably did it, waited for a slip up on a traffic violation and took him into custody until they found her body.

 

[christine2448]

Prayers to Kelly's family and may she rest in peace.

Salem

Amen, prayers to all involved.

 

[LIZZY64]

R.I.P Kelly Nolan
WE now know you are safe in the comfort of the good Lord

 

[JimNikki]

It appears there is much frustration with LE about the information given out prior to them finding the victim's body. (has it been confirmed?) But, they were between a rock and a hard place with this case, if you ask me. There was the possibility that Kelly was off on her own, yet the possibility also that she was truly, 'missing,' ie without her consent.

I agree with your post Fran. Everything that LE officer said made logical sense. It's a shame that everything presented before the body was found (in which only one of those options was ever presented to the public and, it would appear, to the family*) as probable now generates such intense frustration, but it shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone. Unless, of course, the whole "significant pieces of information" shared by investigators that led the mother to believe Kelly was alive as of 07/04 & the announcement itself was a ruse (if so, pulled off extremely well with some amazing acting...or without family knowledge) to throw off POI's.

*http://www.madison.com/tct/news/200116

 

[UCFAlumni2002]

I do think that they always keep hope alive until evidence and facts point otherwise in regards to telling the mom that Kelly was alive as of 7/4.

 

[JimNikki]

Very good point UCF.

 

[fran]

I think that LE and the family always keeps up hope that the missing person is alive, but in every case there comes a point where LE is well aware that chances are the victim is no longer living. Of course they don't always say this to the vicitim's family. That's why the victim's family often times refers to their loved one in the present tense, rather than past. IMO, that was one of the idications in the SP case that MPD used to 'suspect' SP, was that in his interviews, while just saying he wanted to keep the focus on Laci and her return, he referred to her in the past tense.

The very first day I heard about Laci missing, I didn't think anything of it, thought she'd just had an argument with hubby and went somewhere to 'cool off.' It wasn't until I heard a few days later that she still hadn't turned up (missed Christmas with her family) that I then suspected foul play. I believe MPD knew within hours they were looking for a body, long before they announced it to the MSM. Long before they told Sharon and Ron about Amber. I believe Sharon knew too,............she just couldn't admit it, too hard of a scenario, not acceptable..............until she found out about SP's gf. Then it was in her face.

When Kelly first went missing, because of the circumstances, IMO, it was logical to think that she was voluntarily missing. But, as time went by and she still didn't show up, things got a little more intense, and I would think most especially behind the 'blue line.' IMO, that's why, without cameras and helicoptors flying overhead, LE was quietly going about their business of checking with the cell phone company, using technology to pinpoint Kelly's phone, searching, searching, searching.

Once LE finally got to the point they thought they NEEDED to more intently search a specific area, they quietly went there at 4:30 in the morning, quietly contacting the family of their intentions. It wasn't until daybreak that the media found out and the news of the search went national. By the time the MSM got involved, LE had actually already located the body, the media just didn't know about it for awhile.

IMHO, there's still much LE knows about this case they're not disclosing. LE and the family. LE, the family, and the PERP. Heck, who knows, maybe LE is already talking to the perp.


JMHO
fran

 

[mssheila]

"Wray defended the way his department has released information about the case. Police have not released the details of a cell phone conversation between Nolan and her sister around the time Nolan disappeared, for example, and they've asked the family not to discuss details of the investigation. Police also have not released any information about who Nolan may have been with the night she disappeared or descriptions of any possible suspects. Authorities said they learned a lesson from the 2004 disappearance of UW-Madison freshman Audrey Seiler, who faked her own abduction. In that case, media pressure determined how police released information, Hanson said, which included a sketch of a phony kidnapper."The media's deadlines are not our deadlines," he said. "We have to get information out as best as we can but it cannot dictate an investigation."


The lesson, it would appear, they've learned is to not be so quick to believe the missing person may be a victim of foul play until there is physical proof that they were...protecting themselves from embarrassment, but at what expense?

Early in this case someone asked the question about whether Audrey Seiler has affected the police's decisions on how to handle these cases. I've always thought that our MPD would never react like that just because of one case. I've been owned. To the people who think Audrey committed NO CRIME- one of them is listed above. She determined how this case was handled. The reason police don't take seriously a young missing person (male or female- Look at Amos Mortier!) who was last seen downtown is AUDREY SEILER. I've been listening to the radio all this week, and I am astounded at the people who never thought she'd be found dead. There are so many people who assumed she just walked away. Why? Thanks Audrey.

 

[Ang50]

I second this, mssheila. But I'm unwilling to lay blame at Audrey's feet for this, if LE allowed it to affect their investigation. Her case might have affected what was released to the media and what the public thought. But LE should not have treated this as an Audrey case.

Madison LE is not infallible. In fact, there's a very famous case where Madison LE did not believe a rape victim, even charged her with filing a false report and it took a LONG time before she was vindicated. http://www.truthinjustice.org/cryrape1.htm
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/12/06/ap/national/mainD8LRJLB80.shtml

I have no doubt that NOW they are doing everything they can. I know Madison officers personally, some Madison DA's and I know they care. Just maybe they need to err on the side of taking this missing persons report more seriously in the first place.