GUILTY WI - LAKE GENEVA SUITCASE MURDERS, Laura Simonson & Jenny Gamez - #2

[OhThatVictoria]

Introducing BDSM at trial in WI will be like bringing a stripper to a church bake sale.

(spit out my coffee reading this one)

:tyou:

It's the first time I laughed while reading this thread since it started. Thank you OhThatVictoria! Living in Milwaukee, I know this is so true!

Judy ~ I grew up in Waukesha County so I know from where I speak. Yeah, we need a touch of levity! I've had to stop reading / watching stuff online at times as it evokes incredible outrage over this case. I'm having a bit of fun at the good people of WI's expense.

I agree w/Rally that there are many progressives in WI but it still smacks of "golly gee". I'm back there often, hey der As a matter of fact, I'll forever be a WI girl at heart. (so I'm kinda making fun of myself too

 

[OhThatVictoria]

How will the charges not hold up in court? Hiding a corpse....they didn't die the day before he dumped them on the side of the road, he hid them in a suitcase and kept them there for a very long period of time. He obviously took precautions in making sure the bodies were not found previous (including when the cops searched his apartment on earlier visits).

KDub ~ I've been a bit hung up on the same issue. SZ hid Jenny for approx 18 months (at home - so that doesn't count?). He hid Laura for about seven months. So, if I'm interpreting what his defense is trying to posture, it was where he hid the luggage that is the crux of the matter. That ditch was their last stop.

EDIT . . . to take the point home, they seem to be debating whether he meant for the luggage to be found in the ditch.

 

[Judy]

Judy ~ I grew up in Waukesha County so I know from where I speak. Yeah, we need a touch of levity! I've had to stop reading / watching stuff online at times as it evokes incredible outrage over this case. I'm having a bit of fun at the good people of WI's expense.

I agree w/Rally that there are many progressives in WI but it still smacks of "golly gee". I'm back there often, hey der As a matter of fact, I'll forever be a WI girl at heart. (so I'm kinda making fun of myself too

Shootings (and subsequent murders) are on the rise. It was only weeks ago the Milwaukee Court House was the setting for Gay marriages (being contested now). MPD is always under the microscope - funny how the lens must be foggy! WAPD lens fogged up, too, from what I'm learning. The "X-rated" comment was very telling. I base my thinking/opinions/research on my background of Psych education (and profession) and working with abused women (and men). I've also studied the profiles of serial killers.

That's the reasoning behind my interest researching his predatory history and his lack of having a conscious after these acts, (empathy and remorse - I suspect, too). He's scary, for sure.

But hey, golly gee, it's nice to meet a WI girl (at heart) here!

Rallygirl - you are so right about how serial killers present. Most have been know as the "nice guy" - many have a wife and kids who had no idea of what they were up to - many hold down jobs and are active (sometimes leaders) within the community.

 

[Rallygrrl]

Watch it unfold. I have no degree in criminal justice or law, but I can kinda see where this case is heading. The defense attorneys are going to stun the jury with all sorts of lurid (and probably inaccurate) portrayals of the BDSM lifestyle. So much so, where they will be sitting there in shock regarding "these sexual deviants". Then they will transition into how the meetings with these victims was consensual and that their deaths were an "accidental" and death is a "potential risk" of being involved in this sort of lifestyle. I know better. I just hope the juries do, too. It all depends on the jury pool. I have been on jury duty, and the attorneys weed through people pretty good to find people that will side with their case. Since this is so high profile, jury selection could go on forever. People like me, who already have an opinion regarding BDSM and some knowledge of the community or other "alternative lifestyles", will be weeded out. They do not want us. Neither side does.

Now, why would the prosecution not want us? Well, basically because we have already gone into the trial with some inherent bias...that could lead to a mistrial. So, no one with some sort of "?" will be chosen. We will have to cross our fingers that the people who are chosen see the case for what it really is: not an issue of lifestyle choices, but murder.

Regarding the issue of "hiding a corpse". Give me a break. You expect anyone to believe you were not "hiding a corpse" after keeping at least one victim and possibly two for several months in a fridge or freezer or in your car is not "hiding a corpse"? I think that one is pretty cut-and-dry. I cannot imagine any story a defense attorney could spin to convince one juror that SZ was just "holding onto them until he had time to bring them to LE attention". Dropping the victims' bodies off in a suitcase on the side of the road in the middle of nowhere (even if it was on the same street as a police station) does not constitute "turning over evidence". That is "hiding a corpse". Give me a break. In many cases, I tend to give the defense a chance and listen to their argument, but this one...you gotta be kidding me. The defense has its work cut out for it because no one, not one single person in their right mind, would think, "Hmmmmmmmm....oh yes, he was just 'holding onto the victims bodies until he had some time to turn them over by dumping their remains on the side of the road'". Do-de-do. Like that is something a "normal" person would do?

 

[Rallygrrl]

Watch it unfold. I have no degree in criminal justice or law, but I can kinda see where this case is heading. The defense attorneys are going to stun the jury with all sorts of lurid (and probably inaccurate) portrayals of the BDSM lifestyle. So much so, where they will be sitting there in shock regarding "these sexual deviants". Then they will transition into how the meetings with these victims was consensual and that their deaths were an "accidental" and death is a "potential risk" of being involved in this sort of lifestyle. I know better. I just hope the juries do, too. It all depends on the jury pool. I have been on jury duty, and the attorneys weed through people pretty good to find people that will side with their case. Since this is so high profile, jury selection could go on forever. People like me, who already have an opinion regarding BDSM and some knowledge of the community or other "alternative lifestyles", will be weeded out. They do not want us. Neither side does.

Now, why would the prosecution not want us? Well, basically because we have already gone into the trial with some inherent bias...that could lead to a mistrial. So, no one with some sort of "?" will be chosen. We will have to cross our fingers that the people who are chosen see the case for what it really is: not an issue of lifestyle choices, but murder.

Regarding the issue of "hiding a corpse". Give me a break. You expect anyone to believe you were not "hiding a corpse" after keeping at least one victim and possibly two for several months in a fridge or freezer or in your car is not "hiding a corpse"? I think that one is pretty cut-and-dry. I cannot imagine any story a defense attorney could spin to convince one juror that SZ was just "holding onto them until he had time to bring them to LE attention". Dropping the victims' bodies off in a suitcase on the side of the road in the middle of nowhere (even if it was on the same street as a police station) does not constitute "turning over evidence". That is "hiding a corpse". Give me a break. In many cases, I tend to give the defense a chance and listen to their argument, but this one...you gotta be kidding me. The defense has its work cut out for it because no one, not one single person in their right mind, would think, "Hmmmmmmmm....oh yes, he was just 'holding onto the victims bodies until he had some time to turn them over by dumping their remains on the side of the road'". Do-de-do. Like that is something a "normal" person would do?

 

[Rallygrrl]

I have no opinion regarding BDSM. I am not personally involved in the community, but know people who are. As far as I understand, death is not normal "okay, I agree to that". There is a trust situation between participants, and it usually involves pushing things, but NOT DYING. So we are gonna have a lot of fun with this case, since perception of an alternative lifestyle could cloud some people's judgement. I am not sure, but some people may think death was consensual for engaging in behaviors that are considered risky.

Reality is, you see someone in distress, no matter what the situation, you call 911. Period. That is just the right thing to do. I do not care what the situation is. Someone who fell off a bike or kinky sex...if they are in distress, you call 911. As a former LE officer, SZ should have known that. You do not stuff them up in a suitcase and drive them back to West Allis and stick them in a fridge/freezer. I do not care what the situation was...ya just do not do that. As I have said before, this reeks to me of something else. I am not sure what...but it is something else.

We need a criminologist to pipe up here since I see no reason to keep the victims' bodies for so long. That suggests something else. If he really wanted to hide something, he could have disposed of the victims right away. But he KEPT THEM. So this says something else was going on regarding him bringing the victims' bodies back to his home.

 

[KDub]

Who they pick for jury's will sometimes surprise you. I was on a 1st degree murder trial once, it was a young man who was in the Navy at the time of his murder (the accused was a regular civilian), at the time I was in my 20s and my brother was a deployed Marine, I thought for sure there was no way they were going to pick me, I figured they would view me to be too sympathetic to the victim, view him as my brother....but they did pick me. P.S. The accused was 100% without a doubt, guilty....it was also a very interesting experience.

 

[Sos]

My guess is that the attorneys are playing up the BDSM aspect to distract the public. They did that with Dahmer regarding his involvement in the LBGT community (back then, being gay was still a "fringe" in the Milwaukee community). It is one of those, "Well, the victims were involved in something 'subversive' so they must have deserved it" sort of tactics.

I feel the same way about most of what we are being told - the information shared from SZ, LE and Media is so insane that its difficult not to react emotionally; when I react others have control and I feel they are trying to lead me away from the truth.

Seriously: A former LE officer in an apartment with a dead animal odor and a fly infestation gets visited by LE both as friends and as a missing persons inquiry - they do not think something is amiss standing in the odor filled room full of flies........ ?

 

[OhThatVictoria]

Another thing that just doesn't sit right in this case . . .why doesn't SZ know when he met Jenny Gamez? how can he not remember if they met in late 2012 or early 2013? I can understand a memory lapse when asked to retrace from a decade (or more) but not remembering when you caused the death of someone and it was just two years ago?

There is very little published about their meeting, one article mentions that the hotel has had three owners:
http://www.cbs58.com/news/local-new...wo-women-stuffed-in-a-suitcase-265313631.html

Police are now trying to confirm his claims pulling guest book records, looking for witnesses from late 2012 and early 2013, and looking up Jenny Gamez's airline records.

Hotel managers told us Zelich's name wasn't in their records but police say records could be missing because the hotel was sold multiple times. In records CBS 58 uncovered we found the hotel changed hands three times. Surjit LLC. sold to Wisconsin Hospitality LLC. and then to current owners of Sunrise Hotel Incorporated.

I may be reaching here but Is it possible that Zelich knew about that hotel's record, making any evidence linking him there (or not) nearly impossible to trace? Either he wanted no evidence to support a murder charge in Kenosha County OR he just wasn't there and doesn't want to disclose the location.

I located court records / timeline of two lawsuits filed against the first of three hotel owners:

Community Bank & Trust vs Surjit LLC - $ 255,159.47
The case was filed on 11/12/12 and the date for the final determination / judgement status was 4/17/13.
http://www.freecourtdocket.com/case/57fd9c90ec183e08/WI/2012CV000391

Also note that a similar suit was filed on 3/20/11 (and dismissed on 7/6/11) the previous year:
Community Bank & Trust vs Surjit LLC $ 1,848,096.65
http://www.freecourtdocket.com/case/3e024851a8e40171/WI/2011CV000662

This might be a coincidence but two of the three names listed on the case docket provide an address in Franklin, WI.

SZ purchased / lived in Franklin, WI. Do we have his previous address in Franklin? Could he have had knowledge of this company / partners / hotel? Whether it's relevant, he was also in the title business at one time (and sued by his partner).

Who feels like digging around for more info? Names for the owners of Surjit LLC can be found on case docket(s) and these links. (I did not do a search for the third name on the case docket):

http://www.whitepages.com/name/Surjit-Toor
http://www.whitepages.com/name/Harpreet-Toor

Overall, I'd like to learn more about SZ's lawsuits. He inherited money yet didn't seem to be able to hold on to it. What was up with that?

 

[Sos]

Another thing that just doesn't sit right in this case . . .why doesn't SZ know when he met Jenny Gamez? how can he not remember if they met in late 2012 or early 2013? I can understand a memory lapse when asked to retrace from a decade (or more) but not remembering when you caused the death of someone and it was just two years ago?

I have pondered that question myself quite a bit and in my opinion SZ maybe choosing not to tell the truth there because if he came to Oregon or California to get Jenny then the argument could be made that she was kidnapped and then the defense argument of consensual accident goes right out the window

 

[ClaireNC]

(respectfully snipped)

Overall, I'd like to learn more about SZ's lawsuits. He inherited money yet didn't seem to be able to hold on to it. What was up with that?

One of the recent articles said that the money SZ and his sister inherited from their father went into buying the condo that they shared. Which they sold after the embezzlement lawsuit. Has anybody looked at the real estate records on that property? How much did they buy and then sell it for? Was the condo in Franklin?

 

[KDub]

I believe it was in Franklin, but I don't have the address on that.

 

[FBEye]

KDub, I believe the Washington St address and the current Lincoln Ave address were back to back.

Just Simply Red's posts numbers 636, 751, & 1084 state in Aug 2006 she moved into the Franklin condo with him and in Aug 2007 she moved out of the Washington St duplex.

The condo info is from:
http://county.milwaukee.gov/CountyTreasurer7712.htm
http://gcswebportal.milwaukeecounty.org/GCSWebPortal/Search.aspx
showing:
10027 WHITNALL EDGE DR E
FRANKLIN WI 53132
In this timeframe, Trulia shows the condo was sold in 2003, then next early 2007: [B]http://www.trulia.com/homes/Wisc...27-W-Whitnall-Edge-Dr-E-Franklin-WI-53132[/B]

My guestimate would be this order (from Spokeo, PeopleFinders, Ancestry, and White Pages searches):
2001-2003- 11229 W National Ave, Apts 104 & 110, West Allis WI
2003-2007- 10027 W Whitnall Edge Dr Unit E Franklin, WI
2007-2012- 5832 W Washington St, West Allis, WI
2012-2014- 8011 W Lincoln Ave, #1, West Allis, WI

Before 2001, he also has these addresses:
8535 W Waterford Ave #6, Milwaukee
9430 W Maple Ct, West Allis (1989)
3774 S 24th St, Milwaukee

*****************

To answer some of the questions about the Franklin condo address, here's my 7-6-2014 post #46 with some info that might help.
The Trulia link above shows the sales history of:
09/09/2010 Sold $162,000
08/10/2007 Sold $167,000
01/03/2007 Sold $85,000 (????)
06/26/2003 Sold $159,900
08/30/2001 Sold $145,000

 

[Rallygrrl]

Thank you for your response, SOS. Yeah...it is kinda "Hmmmm" that no one did anything. I have posted quite a bit regarding this case. I work in property management. I am kinda like "WTF?" when I walk into a unit and see flies and it stinks. I am really aware and looking around for ANYTHING that does not seem right. I cannot poke around too much...but if I smell something, I just back out and call the cops. I ain't paid enough to dead with that.

But, on a few occasions, I have been right. In my case, it was elderly people who passed. I had one murder scene where a guy got his brains blown out, but I did not deal wit that...they sent over a hazmat crew for that one. I am thankful, since brains were everywhere. I am a punk-rock woman who does property management...but I do not clean up brains.

I have a connection to this case. I am OUTRAGED by how, once again, the police department let someone go. I throw away a gum wrapper and I get arrested. How does this happen where the people who are supposed to "Serve and Protect" are the very people you are scared of?

 

[Rallygrrl]

Thank you for your response, SOS. Yeah...it is kinda "Hmmmm" that no one did anything. I have posted quite a bit regarding this case. I work in property management. I am kinda like "WTF?" when I walk into a unit and see flies and it stinks. I am really aware and looking around for ANYTHING that does not seem right. I cannot poke around too much...but if I smell something, I just back out and call the cops. I ain't paid enough to deal with that.

But, on a few occasions, I have been right. In my case, it was elderly people who passed. I had one murder scene where a guy got his brains blown out, but I did not deal wit that...they sent over a hazmat crew for that one. I am thankful, since brains were everywhere. I am a punk-rock woman who does property management...but I do not clean up brains.

I have a connection to this case. I am OUTRAGED by how, once again, the police department let someone go. I throw away a gum wrapper and I get arrested. How does this happen where the people who are supposed to "Serve and Protect" are the very people you are scared of?

 

[Rallygrrl]

I am just back to my job in property managemenet. If someone complained to me that they had a fly infestation I would, logically, say to myself, "something is dead". That is just common sense. You do not have to be a rocket scientist. That is NOT normal. If there are flies...something is dead. Flies do not stick around...in fact, their lifespan is about 3 days. So, if you got 'em and they do not go away (if you are clean)...something is DEAD. I kinda blame property management of SZ'a unit on this one. You can enter with proper notice. Usually 24 hours. If tenants are complaining...yeah, I go in.

 

[Rallygrrl]

I go in. If something is "off" I call the police. I was in a situation where I had a "horder". OMG. But that is another story.

So, do not MF tell me this is "normal". Besides, what tenant who rents an apartment in a building has an additional fridge/freezer? I am just sayin. I saw the building. That is an apartment building. How many fridges do you need? That, right, there, would have tipped me off. And I am not a freaking detective.

I guess nothing is too stupid for people to ignore.

 

[Judy]

I’m wondering if this is too much of a stretch, but could the WAPD who questioned him about Laura and did the walk through of his apartment have been previous buddies from the job? Could they have conversed about old times and how they used to dabble in the cell phone business? Could they have talked about the good old days when they watched the dancers on the tax-payers dime instead of enforcing the law? Possibly they were too busy giving him the high-five for all the women he chased while on duty to notice anything unusual. As his attorney will say, “It’s not like he was doing anything criminal.” :gathering:

 

[Sos]

I’m wondering if this is too much of a stretch, but could the WAPD who questioned him about Laura and did the walk through of his apartment have been previous buddies from the job?

Were the names of the LE officers that did the walk through ever released by LE ?

If so; is there a way to cross reference their seniority with SZ's retirement date to see if they were on the force when SZ was still working as an LE officer ?

 

[ClaireNC]

*****************

To answer some of the questions about the Franklin condo address, here's my 7-6-2014 post #46 with some info that might help.
The Trulia link above shows the sales history of:
09/09/2010 Sold $162,000
08/10/2007 Sold $167,000
01/03/2007 Sold $85,000 (????)
06/26/2003 Sold $159,900
08/30/2001 Sold $145,000

Thanks FBEye! I've been thinking about OhThatVictoria's question, "Overall, I'd like to learn more about SZ's lawsuits. He inherited money yet didn't seem to be able to hold on to it. What was up with that?" Here is what I came up with:

They bought the condo in 2003 for $159,900 and sold it at a loss in 2007. The father's estate was valued at about $450,000. Assuming that amount was the net value of the estate (after debts were paid, etc.) SZ and his sister each received about $225,000. If they paid cash for the condo, that left about $145,000 each after the condo purchase. Did he have steady employment between 2001, when he left the police force, and 2007, when he got his private security license and started working for Securitas? He was involved with LegalShield, was a partner in the company, Comprehensive Title, (which he got caught embezzling from), maybe still selling cell phones and possibly working for a car dealership. That doesn't sound like anything that was truly bringing in a steady income for those 6 years. By the time the lawsuits from Household Finance, Livingston Financial, First American Title and Midland Funding hit in 2008 - 2010 the inheritance money was gone, since those lawsuits resulted in garnishing his wages from Securitas. The total amount of the garnishes was approximately $93,400.

I think he was probably living off his inheritance for much of the time between 2001 and 2007, when that money ran out he started working for Securitas. Then the lawsuits hit and his wages were garnished. It doesn't seem like he much in terms of assets when he was arrested. I think the money was just spent over the years.

Also note, I didn't look into the sale of the condo in 2007. Did both SZ and his sister sell the condo or did SZ sell off his share of the condo to his sister for $85,000. I haven't had much luck finding the actual real estate transactions for properties in Franklin, WI. Has anybody else?