GUILTY WI - Principal John Klang, 49, dies in Cazenovia school shooting, 29 Sept 2006

[BarnGoddess]

Wow, you guys are fast. It took forever to get that Adobe link to open. LOL

 

[Sherlockmom]

>Safeguard our children is what they need to do......!!!!!
Right now any wing nut can walk into many schools in the US & take them as hostages / shoot as many as they want or can before LE gets there. <<


But how would you have them safeguard the children? You call for the government to do something but what would you have them do exactly? The government could have done nothing to save these children. The Amish do not want the government involved in their schools that is why they have their own. They would not have armed guards in the schools or weapons nor do anything to fight back. So, again, how could the government have prevented this? The perpetrator in this crime had never been in prison as far as I know. He didn't have a criminal record that I have heard about.

I believe that the government is already doing something about it. They are holding a completely useless conference on school violence which will accomplish nothing but to waste more taxpayer money and give a bunch of politicians the opportunity to get their faces in front of cameras and bloviate just before an election. But then everyone can say they tried to do something and feel better about it.

>>The laws we have feed the sick purps 3 meals a day / give them a free trial. Then feed & house them as long as they live. Something is wrong with that scenario. While grieving families pay high medical bills / funeral expenses etc etc Its just wrong!<<

Well all families who have sick people pay high medical bills and everyone has funeral expenses. Are you saying this should be the government's responsibility too? Why should I pay for someone else's medical expenses? Why should I pay for someone else's funeral? These people CHOOSE not to have health insurance because they don't believe in it. The Amish are probably extremely conservative when it comes to the government paying for these. THey like to take care of their own and they also do not like taking things from the government that usually has strings attached. They take care of themselves. One of the lessons we can learn from them. The last thing they want is the government in their lives any more than necessary. They will accept charity and seem to know the difference between charity and forced charity which is actually stealing with government sanction. And they don't want their schools turned into prisons either where even the parents are locked out.

>>>The laws we have feed the sick purps 3 meals a day / give them a free trial. Then feed & house them as long as they live. Something is wrong with that scenario. While grieving families pay high medical bills / funeral expenses etc etc Its just wrong!<<

Well I think our own prisoners should at least be treated as well as the prisoners at Gitmo. What laws do you think could be passed that the ACLU wouldn't immediately challenge and take to court?

Who elects the liberal representatives who appoint the liberal judges that let criminals roam free? Who elects the representatives that want to take prayer out of our school and God out of our country? We want a Godless government we don't want God in our public schools and then we seem shocked when we grow Godless people?

What does this country do to show that we value the lives of our children? Do we start before they are born protecting them? Before we point fingers at the government perhaps we need to look in the mirror. The government are people that we the people put into office. We have control over that. Who is tough on crime? Who isn't? Are we confusing people when when mothers kill their unborn children but we get mad at them when they do it seven years later?

We have become a country of whiners and cryers. We are real good at putting teddy bears, balloons and flowers at crime sites and holding candlelight vigils. We indeed may be the first country in the history of the world to cry ourselves to death. But when it comes to gathering people together to go vote in local elections you can hear a pin drop in the polls.

Given the beliefs of the Amish and their ways and the lack of a criminal record or, as far as we know, any indication that this man was capable of this type of crime just what do you think, specifically, that the government could have done to prevent this?

 

[Sherlockmom]

>Look at the kid who shot the principal in Wi Fox news stated he planned to kill more people. No death penalty in Wi......we'll have to support him for many years, he is 15 yrs old.<


Well I agree with you there. But you have to remember WE ARE THE GOVERNMENT. If there is no death penalty in WI it is not the fault of the government but our own fault. We elect government to represent us. There has been a breakdown in accountability. Elected officials have forgotten this and represent their own political agendas.

In WI there is an advisory referendum on the ballot in November to bring back the DP when there is DNA evidence. Several polls of state citizens have been taken that show the majority of citizens want the DP. This is only an advisory referendum which will show what the citizens want. Watch what happens after that.

I do not believe in the DP as a deterrent in all cases. I don't think it would matter in cases like these when the perpetrator is suicidal anyway. I believe that the DP is a punishment as should be prison. And I'm all for punishment of this type. I think it's a crime for citizens to have to financial support this type of scum.

Taxing the public to death to pay for someone else's health costs or funerals isn't going to do a thing to prevent crime. That's one way to tell who is really trying to do something. Are they more interested in spending money for freebies for all or to build prisons? Is it the government's responsibility to micro manage every situation and disaster in our lives or to provide those services that we are unable to provide for ourselves like providing for the national defence, building roads and prisons?

 

[cheko1]

>

Well I agree with you there. But you have to remember WE ARE THE GOVERNMENT. If there is no death penalty in WI it is not the fault of the government but our own fault.


Many people Sherlock don't want the death penalty in Wi or in any state. I for one have sent letters over & over to every official elected in Wi to re-instate it. So I take absolutley no fault in not having the death penalty here. I am well aware of the referendum in Nov.

Wis does NOT have welfare, they do have Badger Care for low income families. The same elected officials refuse to help Mom's get child support from dead beat Dad's. I know of one case where a guy is 40 grand in arrears. The court system, government & no one helps this Mother. She is about to loose her home & everything she worked hard for. Yet she carries health insurance on her babies.

Yet if a lunatic went on a shooting spree she'd have no life insurance to cover them.

 

[cheko1]

>

But how would you have them safeguard the children? You call for the government to do something but what would you have them do exactly? The government could have done nothing to save these children. The Amish do not want the government involved in their schools that is why they have their own. They would not have armed guards in the schools or weapons nor do anything to fight back. So, again, how could the government have prevented this? The perpetrator in this crime had never been in prison as far as I know. He didn't have a criminal record that I have heard about.

Nobody needs to go into the schools except for the teachers & children during the day, if they do they should contact LE. They need a armed guard / put them behind shatter proof window & sit daily. Every public school needs required to update for the safety of the kids or else they don't get government aide.

Unfortuanately the Amish are on their own. They don't need or want help. That is a shame..nothing could or would of prevented the mad man to kill so many.


Why should I pay for someone else's medical expenses? Why should I pay for someone else's funeral?

You already do pay for others health insurance its Badger Care. In Wis we all pay for it out of our tax money.



>>>The laws we have feed the sick purps 3 meals a day / give them a free trial. Then feed & house them as long as they live. Something is wrong with that scenario. While grieving families pay high medical bills / funeral expenses etc etc Its just wrong!<<

I meant the purps who go into schools shooting kids don't deserve diddly squat. Some laws may need rewritten these school shootings are becoming heinous.

Who elects the liberal representatives who appoint the liberal judges that let criminals roam free? Who elects the representatives that want to take prayer out of our school and God out of our country? We want a Godless government we don't want God in our public schools and then we seem shocked when we grow Godless people?

I am but one voter in Wisconsin! I am not to blame for what goes on in our state. I vote every election & proud to say I do so. I also drive people who don't drive to the polls. I then work calling reminding people to vote. What more do you want me to do????

Furthermore I don't feel the government could of done a thing to prevent this massacre at all. But each state needs to look to see that it doesn't happen again.

 

[Sherlockmom]

>But each state needs to look to see that it doesn't happen again.<



There is no way to see that it doesn't happen again. That's the point. I do not want our schools to turn into prisons and I don't want to have to call a cop before I can go into a school and get my kid or see what is going on in there.

I don't want to turn this into a debate with you about welfare, health care and burial expenses. The fact that I already have to pay for some of these things already through my taxes is an irritation to me. I have enough trouble paying for my own and if I was allowed to keep more of my own money I'd have a little less trouble. I believe it is wrong and not what was intended when our country first began.

The point is that people came through, as Americans always do as the most generous people on the face of the earth, and set up funds to take care of these expenses privately. That is how it should be. We don't need the government to do it for us. That was the point. That is how the Amish feel about it too.

You won't see alot of weeping and wailing and you won't see monuments of teddy bears and balloons. You won't see candlelight vigils. They are a stoic people. They won't point fingers or gripe about the government not helping them. They won't blame anyone. I don't agree with all of their philosophies, esp. their pacifism however I respect them as decent law-abiding citizens.

A armed guard behind glass will only be effective if he is in the exact spot that the perpetrator is at the same time. Most armed guards in banks and other places are usually the first ones shot. That is because the bad guys have the advantage of surprise. Unless he/she stays behind the glass he would most likely be as well. And if someone has managed to grab a child as a hostage? What are they to do? And if a kid comes to school with bombs strapped to them? You close one door but there are dozens of other ones open. Turning our schools into fortresses is NOT going to protect our kids from everything. But I have no problem with armed guards in schools or even arming the teachers in each classroom although I believe most of them would refuse to do so.

If I had to do it all over again I wouldl home-school my kids. Too much I don't like about public schools. But even at home children are not safe these days. There has to be a change in thinking and the way we punish criminals and protect children. From all kinds of evils.

Think about all of the crimes that have been done against children that we read about right here and think about how some of these perpetrators were punished in the past for abusing or harming children. Look at the whole Yates scenario. That is part of the problem.

 

[cheko1]

Sherlock,

You were the one to try to turn this into a debate....not me!
We'll just have to agree to disagree!

 

[Sherlockmom]

>You were the one to try to turn this into a debate....not me!


We'll just have to agree to disagree!

You were the one who brought the government into it by blaming them for not doing enough which isn't the case. There are lots of schools that already have armed guards. In one of the recent shootings the guard wasn't there that day. He didn't save anyone.

Somehow you seemed to think health insurance, burial expenses and dead beat dads had something to do with this thread too. I was hoping to spare us all another blame the government/George Bush thread. It seems to creep into just about everything.

I could see it coming so I thought I'd head it off at the pass and spare us all the agony.

 

[s_finch]

My daughter's school (middle school) has started in the last few days locking all exterior doors (about time!), and getting more stringent on lock down procedures. All the schools in our district have a deputy sheriff on campus at all times, but there are many entry doors at each school that are unsupervised. At least the middle school is taking these precautions, but I know the primary school is not because my son goes there and I can walk right in any time. I could roam those halls for forever as I'm a familiar face and no one would question me. Good thing I'm not a crazed gunman. I"m gonna speak with the middle school principal in the morning about his new procedures and encourage him to continue them and ask about the other campuses.


When I was in school, the worst thing I had to fear were the "mean girls" who liked to taunt nerds like me. Gee how times have changed.

 

[SewingDeb]

When I was in school, the worst thing I had to fear were the "mean girls" who liked to taunt nerds like me. Gee how times have changed.

They really have. My son's school had lockdown today. I could hear the sirens from my house on the hill overlooking the school.

 

[lilsister]

did anyone see the article about teachers carrying guns in school...it has almost come to that point...so very sad :sick:

 

[angelwngs]

My daughter's school (middle school) has started in the last few days locking all exterior doors (about time!), and getting more stringent on lock down procedures. All the schools in our district have a deputy sheriff on campus at all times, but there are many entry doors at each school that are unsupervised. At least the middle school is taking these precautions, but I know the primary school is not because my son goes there and I can walk right in any time. I could roam those halls for forever as I'm a familiar face and no one would question me. Good thing I'm not a crazed gunman. I"m gonna speak with the middle school principal in the morning about his new procedures and encourage him to continue them and ask about the other campuses.


When I was in school, the worst thing I had to fear were the "mean girls" who liked to taunt nerds like me. Gee how times have changed.

Have you considered what schools do when students must go outside and then reenter the school when exterior doors are always to be locked? That in itself presents another unsafe issue. I taught elementary school.
P.E., changing classes, and recess outside became huge issues when teachers did not have keys to exterior doors, yet all exterior doors were required to be locked behind us when we exited. It made for serious problems when we had emergencies on the playground and were forced to beat on the doors until the closest classroom teacher could hear us to allow us entry back into the school. Even when there was no emergency it was often a problem to get someone to hear us to allow reentry to the school when the entire class was reentering.(This presents the perfect time for some nutcase to attack students: Outside the school, students and teachers locked out until someone lets them reenter!) Several teachers would even break the rules and place a tiny rock to prevent a side door from completely closing. This, of course, totally voided the security of "locked doors".

Teachers had keys to schools when I first began teaching, but administration felt this too was unsafe, with too many keys floating around...

 

[s_finch]

Have you considered what schools do when students must go outside and then reenter the school when exterior doors are always to be locked? That in itself presents another unsafe issue. I taught elementary school.
P.E., changing classes, and recess outside became huge issues when teachers did not have keys to exterior doors, yet all exterior doors were required to be locked behind us when we exited. It made for serious problems when we had emergencies on the playground and were forced to beat on the doors until the closest classroom teacher could hear us to allow us entry back into the school. Even when there was no emergency it was often a problem to get someone to hear us to allow reentry to the school when the entire class was reentering.(This presents the perfect time for some nutcase to attack students: Outside the school, students and teachers locked out until someone lets them reenter!) Several teachers would even break the rules and place a tiny rock to prevent a side door from completely closing. This, of course, totally voided the security of "locked doors".

Teachers had keys to schools when I first began teaching, but administration felt this too was unsafe, with too many keys floating around...

Excellent points, thank you!!!!! I will be checking with our principal on this. Our teachers are supposed to have walkie talkies with them at all times, so that would help with getting back in, but still............

 

[2luvmy]

Have you considered what schools do when students must go outside and then reenter the school when exterior doors are always to be locked? That in itself presents another unsafe issue. I taught elementary school.
P.E., changing classes, and recess outside became huge issues when teachers did not have keys to exterior doors, yet all exterior doors were required to be locked behind us when we exited. It made for serious problems when we had emergencies on the playground and were forced to beat on the doors until the closest classroom teacher could hear us to allow us entry back into the school. Even when there was no emergency it was often a problem to get someone to hear us to allow reentry to the school when the entire class was reentering.(This presents the perfect time for some nutcase to attack students: Outside the school, students and teachers locked out until someone lets them reenter!) Several teachers would even break the rules and place a tiny rock to prevent a side door from completely closing. This, of course, totally voided the security of "locked doors".

Teachers had keys to schools when I first began teaching, but administration felt this too was unsafe, with too many keys floating around...

At my DD's schools the teachers and students have ID badges that are to be on their person at all times. The students badges are similar to credit cards, they swipe them for lunch and to check out library books. The teachers' badges are used for lunch and to enter and exit the building. There is a little box thing next to each door and the teachers just wave their name badges in front of them and the door unlocks. A lot easier than fiddling with a key, etc. Also, depending on who you are in the school, the badge only opens the doors at a certain time. So if you are the cook, maybe you only have access from the early morning to mid-afternoon. Teachers have access from early morning to early evening, and then the administrators have certain times, etc. Coaches that are not teachers have access limited to practice times, etc.

 

[Annie]

At my DD's schools the teachers and students have ID badges that are to be on their person at all times. The students badges are similar to credit cards, they swipe them for lunch and to check out library books. The teachers' badges are used for lunch and to enter and exit the building. There is a little box thing next to each door and the teachers just wave their name badges in front of them and the door unlocks. A lot easier than fiddling with a key, etc. Also, depending on who you are in the school, the badge only opens the doors at a certain time. So if you are the cook, maybe you only have access from the early morning to mid-afternoon. Teachers have access from early morning to early evening, and then the administrators have certain times, etc. Coaches that are not teachers have access limited to practice times, etc.

That system would be great, but in case the school couldn't afford it, there could be keys on hooks in the office for a teacher who is going outside for PE or recess to use. It could be placed back on after they come in. All other doors could be locked. This wouldn't be expensive at all.

 

[BarnGoddess]

Have you considered what schools do when students must go outside and then reenter the school when exterior doors are always to be locked? That in itself presents another unsafe issue. I taught elementary school.
P.E., changing classes, and recess outside became huge issues when teachers did not have keys to exterior doors, yet all exterior doors were required to be locked behind us when we exited. It made for serious problems when we had emergencies on the playground and were forced to beat on the doors until the closest classroom teacher could hear us to allow us entry back into the school. Even when there was no emergency it was often a problem to get someone to hear us to allow reentry to the school when the entire class was reentering.(This presents the perfect time for some nutcase to attack students: Outside the school, students and teachers locked out until someone lets them reenter!) Several teachers would even break the rules and place a tiny rock to prevent a side door from completely closing. This, of course, totally voided the security of "locked doors".

Teachers had keys to schools when I first began teaching, but administration felt this too was unsafe, with too many keys floating around...

I was just talking with one of my co-workers. He has three children in school here. We are a very small town. There are about 250 kids in high school. We also have an elementary and middle school. His wife went to the elementary school to have lunch with her youngest. They have days when parents come eat with the kids. She parked in her usual spot so she could dash in the back door and be able to run out and get back to work. Not this time. All doors were locked. She had to go around to the main entrance.

There is also talk of installing a system with an ID Card reader. All students will have them in high school. After the school closes for the day, they can set it so no one's card will open the doors. The community uses the school auditorium for concerts and there are adult computer classes on occasion, but the system will be disarmed to allow for these occasions. They are also going to get prices to install cameras in every classroom and in the halls of all the schools. The high school doesn't serve lunch, so most kids go to the nearest fast food place and return back to school. They need a way to get back in.

The "It can't happen here" way of thinking is changing.

 

[Taximom]

A teenager who pried open his family's gun cabinet brought two weapons to his rural school Friday and shot the principal to death after a struggle with adults and other students, authorities said.

The 15-year-old was taken into custody and charged as an adult with murder, the district attorney said. No one else was hurt.

Authorities said the teen had complained about being teased by other students and decided to confront teachers and the principal using a shotgun and handgun taken from his parent's bedroom. The shooting also came one day after the principal gave him a disciplinary warning for having tobacco on school grounds, according to a criminal complaint.

Witnesses said the student walked in with the shotgun before classes began. A custodian, teachers and students wrestled with him, but he broke through, took out the handgun and shot Weston Schools Principal John Klang three times, Sheriff Randy Stammen said.

A custodian said the teen was a special-education student who told him he was there to kill someone, but did not say who.

"He was calm, but he was on a mission," said Dave Thompson, 43, who also has two children at the school.

Sophomore Shelly Rupp, 16, described the boy as a freshman with few friends and said he was "just weird in the head."

"He always used to kid around about bringing things to school and hurting kids," she said at a gas station nearby where students and townspeople gathered.

Thompson said the student first pointed a shotgun in a teacher's face. Thompson grabbed away the gun, but the student then appeared to be reaching for another gun, so Thompson and the teacher took cover. Thompson ran into a kitchen to call 911.

Klang then confronted the gunman. After the shots were fired, the principal, who was wounded, somehow wrestled him to the ground and swept the gun away, the complaint said.

Klang, 49, was shot in the head, chest and leg, authorities said. He died hours later at a hospital in Madison.

Sheriff Randy Stammen praised Klang's swift action. "The heroics of the people involved in this can't be understated," he said.

The teen, identified as Eric Hainstock, said a group of kids had teased him by calling him names and rubbing up against him, the complaint said, and the teen felt teachers and the principal would not do anything about it.

So Hainstock decided to confront students, teachers and the principal with the guns, according to the complaint.

The complaint also said Hainstock had told a friend a few days earlier that Klang would not "make it through homecoming," referring to festivities planned for the school's homecoming weekend.

Hainstock could get life in prison if convicted, District Attorney Patricia Barrett said. Wisconsin does not have the death penalty.

Detectives executed a search warrant at Hainstock's house late Friday, the sheriff said. The teen was scheduled to make an initial court appearance Monday.

more at the link http://www.forbes.com/infoimaging/feeds/ap/2006/09/29/ap3056502.html

Just ran across this update:
Wisconsin teen "freaked out"-didn't intend to kill
BARABOO, Wisconsin (AP) -- A teenager accused of gunning down his principal told detectives in a videotaped interview that he didn't mean to kill him but "freaked out" when the principal tackled him in a school hallway.
Eric Hainstock, 16, also told investigators in the same interview hours after Principal John Klang was fatally shot that he'd been in anger management classes for years but found them useless.
"He's like, 'Your choices are based on your beliefs,'" Hainstock said, referring to his instructor. "Like, 'duh.' It gets annoying."
Prosecutors presented the videotaped interrogation of Hainstock at a hearing on his request to be tried as a juvenile. He could be sentenced to life in prison if convicted on adult charges. If convicted as a juvenile, Hainstock would be released at age 25.
(more at link)

 

[SieSie]

Just ran across this update:
Wisconsin teen "freaked out"-didn't intend to kill
BARABOO, Wisconsin (AP) -- A teenager accused of gunning down his principal told detectives in a videotaped interview that he didn't mean to kill him but "freaked out" when the principal tackled him in a school hallway.
Eric Hainstock, 16, also told investigators in the same interview hours after Principal John Klang was fatally shot that he'd been in anger management classes for years but found them useless.
"He's like, 'Your choices are based on your beliefs,'" Hainstock said, referring to his instructor. "Like, 'duh.' It gets annoying."
Prosecutors presented the videotaped interrogation of Hainstock at a hearing on his request to be tried as a juvenile. He could be sentenced to life in prison if convicted on adult charges. If convicted as a juvenile, Hainstock would be released at age 25.
(more at link)

This isn't related to the Amish school shootings, is it?? I'm confused.

 

[Taximom]

This isn't related to the Amish school shootings, is it?? I'm confused.

The comment I quoted appeared in this thread, so I updated it here.

 

[SieSie]

The comment I quoted appeared in this thread, so I updated it here.

Oh, I see. Thanks, I was confused and thought I was missing some connection, lol.

PSUFan - thanks for the update from the local paper. I saw a People magazine at my dentist office and it showed the new school and said it's called "New Hope" - great name. Welcome to WS, by the way.