GUILTY WI - Six deer hunters killed, 2 injured in Sawyer County shooting, 21 Nov 2004

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golfmom said:
As Vang walked away, ''Bob hollered at him in a somewhat louder voice. He said, 'We got your back tag number and we're going to turn you in to the sheriff for trespassing.' ''
This is after Vang brushed past them. If this is the threat Bob made after Vang brushed past, obviously Vang was free to go, and was no longer in physical peril from the group, (if he ever even was in the first place). I agree that being surrounded by a group of people is intimidating, especially if you throw in racial slurs. However, at the point when they let him walk away, it was his responsibility to either let it go or to contact authorities if he had felt like he had truly been in danger.
 
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...3,1,605873.story?coll=chi-newsnationworld-hed

Although Vang, 36, wore a camouflage mask throughout the incident, Willers said he guessed he was Hmong, an ethnic group from Laos with a large population in the St. Paul area, where Vang lived. "I could tell through the slits in the mask that he had brown skin and he was short," he said.

Willers said he followed Vang and was about 30 yards away when he saw two all-terrain vehicles and their five passengers near Vang.

Willers, who showed little emotion during his testimony, said Crotteau repeatedly asked Vang for identification. Willers said Crotteau eventually stopped pressing: "He said, `Forget it. Let's just let him go.'"

Willers said none of the other hunters spoke and they "kind of reluctantly moved back" when Vang walked toward them. With jurors taking notes during much of his testimony, Willers said there were never any physical threats before the shooting.

After someone reached around Vang's back to flip down his hunting license number so it could be seen, Willers said he wrote the number in the dirt on the hood of an ATV. As one hunter "stayed in front of him a little bit," Willers said Crotteau and several of the others repeated the number out loud several times and Crotteau hollered at Vang that he would be reported to authorities.

After Vang walked about 25 yards, Willers said he saw him take his gun off his shoulder and swing it toward the other hunters. Willers, who prosecutors say was the only one with a gun other than Vang, said he then brought his gun in front of his chest.

"Don't you shoot at me, you son of a !" Willers said he yelled at Vang.

With his gun safety still on, Willers said he took cover. As he readied his gun to fire at Vang, Willers said he heard a bullet "whistle past me." Then he was hit.

Although he believed his rifle was fully loaded, Willers said he never fired it during the incident. One bullet was missing when authorities recovered the rifle and they have said they believe it was fired by the other man to survive the shooting, Lauren Hesebeck.

At the end of her questioning of Willers, Wisconsin Atty. Gen. Peg Lautenschlager, who is personally leading the prosecution, asked a question that both sides believe is at the heart of the case.

"Who shot first?" Lautenschlager asked.

"Mr. Vang," Willers answered.
..........
On Tuesday, Judge Norman Yackel is expected to determine the admissibility of telephone recordings of an interview with Vang by a Tribune reporter. Prosecutors said they are working to find someone who can vouch for the authenticity of the voices on the recordings, which the judge already has ruled are admissible.

The jailhouse conversations were recorded by sheriff's deputies and provided to prosecutors, as allowed under the law. Vang told the reporter, among other things, that some of his victims "deserved" their fate.
 
Thanks for the welcome, Golfmom!

I think the LE are waiting until this trial ends before formally charging him with the other murder. Local gossip is the LE is putting all their ducks in a row before they make an official announcement.

The racial slurs that Vang has been proclaiming from Day 1 a lot of people are not believing....and if it is true, do you murder 6 people? I will find the link later but the LE had been called repeatedly to his home for domestic abuse but his wife never pressed charges.

This is a man who felt the laws did not apply to him.
 
Lady GL said:
I will find the link later but the LE had been called repeatedly to his home for domestic abuse but his wife never pressed charges.

This is a man who felt the laws did not apply to him.

LOL, Lady GL ... which wife? his first wife? or his cultural wife? Wasn't there another wife sandwiched in there somehow besides those two as well?
 
After hunters told Vang they were going to report him to authorities, Willers said he saw Vang walk down a path, stop and take the gun off his shoulder.

Willers testified he also took his gun off his shoulder, but took cover behind a tree when he realized Vang was going to shoot.

He said he took the safety off his gun, then heard a bullet whiz by, felt a burning and ripple in his body and realized he'd been hit.
http://www.channel3000.com/news/4962375/detail.html
 
FULL STORY: http://www.startribune.com/stories/467/5612271.html


HAYWARD, WIS. -- In a strong but sometimes shaky voice, deer hunter Lauren Hesebeck described today the harrowing moments last November when Chai Soua Vang shot him from almost point-blank range, and how he watched friends die on the forest floor in northern Wisconsin.

Hesebeck was called to the stand this morning in the third day of the trial of Vang, 36, of St. Paul, in connection with the deaths of six fellow deer hunters.

Vang watched impassively as Hesebeck described the fatal confrontation, which began after Vang was confronted for trespassing.

Hesebeck said he was at the hunting cabin with others when he heard Terry Willers, who co-owned the land with Robert Crotteau, come on a 2-way radio and say that he had asked a trespasser to leave one of their tree stands.

Though Vang was leaving the property at that point, Crotteau, hearing this radio exchange, announced that he wanted to confront the trespasser and "give him a piece of his mind," Hesebeck testified.

Several hunters, including Hesebeck, piled onto two ATVs accompanying Crotteau and intercepted Vang on a trail on the property.

Hesebeck acknowledged that Crotteau was angry, but he said Crotteau never touched Vang.

"Did he say you ... are always on my property?" asked Wisconsin Attorney General Peg Lautenschlager.

"Yes he did," Hesebeck answered. "(Crotteau) said 'What were you doing in my son's tree stand? Do you think the (stand) grew out of the tree by itself?' He said 'Get the hell out of here. If you come back, I'm going to kick your *advertiser censored*. Better yet, I'll report you to the DNR.' "
 
"(Drew) asked me to give him Last Rites, which I don't know," Hesebeck testified. "He prayed. I don't know which prayer. It was a Catholic prayer ... I felt helpless. I don't know a lot of first aid and that kind of thing."

By then help was arriving in the form of others from the cabin who pulled up on ATVs. Hesebeck helped load Willers onto an ATV and told Willers' son, Brandon, and Crotteau's son, Carter, to get a pickup truck to take Drew out. Hesebeck then picked up Willers' rifle and stayed with Drew.

And that's when he escaped death one more time.

"I heard the words 'You're not dead yet?' " Hesebeck said.
..........

FYI: Drew did survive long enough to receive Last Rites at the hospital. :(
 
Evidently two marriages, one relationship and many children:

In 1982, Long Vang's family moved to California. Chai Soua Vang, who was about 14, married one of his cousins, Say Xiong, under arrangements made by the parents.

During Chai Soua Vang's stay in St. Paul, he separated from Say Xiong. According to police records, on Christmas Eve 2001, officers were called to the couple's house after a report that Chai Soua Vang waved a gun and threatened Say Xiong. No charges were issued because Say Xiong would not cooperate with authorities.

Chai Soua Vang met another Hmong woman after his separation from Say Xiong. That relationship did not last, though it did result in a child, Deu Khang said. He began courting Deu Khang about a year ago, and they soon were married in the Hmong tradition, though not under U.S. law. Deu Khang said Chai Soua Vang has seven children.

http://www.jsonline.com/news/state/nov04/279677.asp
 
http://wcco.com/topstories/local_story_257123631.html

(AP) Hayward, Wis. The Russian-made rifle used in the shootings that killed six deer hunters last fall could hold up to 10 cartridges and be fired as quickly as four times a second, a gun expert testified Wednesday in a Minnesota man's murder trial.

William Newhouse of the state crime laboratory held the 7.62 mm semiautomatic rifle before the jury and pulled the trigger once during the fourth day of Chai Soua Vang's trial in Sawyer County.

Newhouse said 14 shells that investigators recovered from the woods were fired from Vang's black hunting rifle. His testimony suggested Vang had to reload his gun once.

In questioning Newhouse, Assistant Attorney General Roy Korte suggested that Vang, in taking the scope off his gun, made it easier for him to shoot the hunters.

"It is difficult to aim the gun at something close with a telescopic sight on the gun," Newhouse said.
 
So much of the testimony to date is disturbing.

Here's my problem with Vang's story so far. He's claiming self-defense, when there was no overt act that he was in physical danger. Sticks and stones baby. Bad, ugly words do not justify murder in any way. If we were allowed to shoot anyone in my life who has called us names or made fun of us ... well, you get my drift.

But today's testimony from the expert has shifted the case for me. Let's just give Vang the benefit here that they were hurling racial slurs at him and he got scared. But, from the interviews he gave with the Chicago Trib, it seems more like he got really ANGRY. So, what does he do?

He removes his scope.
Why did he remove his scope?
To make it easier to shoot at a closer range.
What does that mean?
Premeditation.
 
I wonder about the bullet fired from the survivors gun. There was one shot fired from that gun. It's now his word against the word of Vang. Could the hunter have fired in the air to scare Vang?
 
Marine Mom said:
I wonder about the bullet fired from the survivors gun. There was one shot fired from that gun. It's now his word against the word of Vang. Could the hunter have fired in the air to scare Vang?

Giving Vang the benefit of the doubt they could have shot in his direction, but you have to remember that there was only one gun among all of those that were killed.

Only one gun and only one bullet was fired from that gun.

Vang chased them down and killed them one by one, stopping to reload when he ran out of ammo.
 
If the hunters "fired the first shot," how come Vang wasn't hit? And if they missed the first shot, how come they didn't get off another one before Vang took the scope off his SKS? As someone has said, a scope is useless for close-range shooting.

I am familiar with firearms. It would take several seconds to remove the scope from the rifle. During that time, the hunters could have easily shot Vang, if they had been the ones who were "shooting first." I hope Vang is cross-examined by someone who knows firearms.
 
golfmom said:
Giving Vang the benefit of the doubt they could have shot in his direction, but you have to remember that there was only one gun among all of those that were killed.

Only one gun and only one bullet was fired from that gun.

Vang chased them down and killed them one by one, stopping to reload when he ran out of ammo.

I suppose my pitiful point is...maybe Vang was "in fear for his life" after he heard a shot fired. If not a bullet, I believe verbal remarks were shot his way. Like you say, sticks and stones baby.

Then again, if it did happen that way, I would have thought he'd have taken cover, not stand in the open and remove his scope.

BTW, I thought you were "right on target" when you mentioned premeditation.
 
William N said:
If the hunters "fired the first shot," how come Vang wasn't hit?

IF they fired the first shot, it would be to scare him. I would think if slurrs were flying, a shot might be fired to drive their point home.

These survivors went through hell and came back that day. IF IF IF he fired the warning shot into the air, perhaps he doesn't want the jury to have any sympathy for Vang. Dunno.

Just a thought.

P.S. Vang was wrong when he turned the hunters into the hunted.
 
Article just posted on the Star Tribune (Please know that by posting this, I'm not posting it to point out that Mr. Crotteau had a tiny amount of alcohol in his system - I believe it's irrelevant to the case... just posting because it has more information about what has been said in court so far today, and the alcohol part just happens to be the first thing mentioned in the article)


FULL STORY: http://www.startribune.com/stories/462/5614341.html
(Once you click on the link, there are 2 pages to the story)

Here is part of it:

HAYWARD, WIS. -- The hunter who angrily swore at Chia Soua Vang during a confrontation over trespassing had a small amount of alcohol in his body when Vang shot and killed him, a medical examiner testified this afternoon.

Dr. Kelly Mills, assistant Ramsey County medical examiner, said that Robert Crotteau, one of six hunters killed in gunfire that erupted during the confrontation, had a blood-alcohol content roughly equivalent to the effects of one can of beer, one shot of whiskey or a glass of wine.

Mills testified that she also performed autopsies on victim Allan Laski and Jessica Willers. Neither had alcohol or drugs in his or her system, she said. She testified that all three died of gunshot wounds. Crotteau was shot in the back and the bullet destroyed his heart and passed through several other organs, she testified.

"He would have died in a matter of seconds – a minute at the most," she said.

Mills testified that Laski was shot three times, all in the back. The fatal wound went through his heart, she said. Another bullet severed his spinal cord, paralyzing him from the waist down, she testified.

She testified that Willers was shot twice in the back. The fatal bullet went through Willers’ left lung, her neck and her brain before lodging in the back of her skull. Mills said the other wound was in Willers’ left buttock, upper thigh and abdomen, at an angle indicating that her knee had been bent.

Mills said others in her office performed autopsies on the other three victims. Their autopsies have not been detailed yet this afternoon.

Deer hunters testified earlier today that Vang wore camouflaged clothing after shooting the six hunters to death and didn't mention the fatal confrontation when he asked for directions out of the woods.

Vang, of St. Paul, has said he acted in self-defense when he killed the six and wounded two others last November in rural Sawyer County, after they confronted him for trespassing. But prosecutors in his murder trial, now in its fourth day, say his self-defense claim isn't supported by the evidence or his behavior after the shootings.

Prosecution witness Daryl Gass of New Auburn, Wis., testified late this morning that he was hunting out of a tree stand on public land 300 to 500 yards south of the shootings. He said he heard about 15 shots from that direction over about 10 minutes, and he assumed hunters had jumped an unusually large number of deer.

Gass said that about a half hour after the shooting stopped he saw a strange sight: A man walking toward him, carrying a rifle and dressed illegally in camouflaged clothing rather than blaze orange. He said he could see that the man, whom he identified in court as Chai Vang, wore a reversible jacket, with the blaze-orange side in.

"He said he was lost and needed help finding his way," Gass testified. "He was very polite but he seemed a little nervous. I assumed it was because he was lost."

Gass testified that he gave Vang directions to a logging road and told him he could follow that to a better-traveled road where he could get more help or catch a ride. He said Vang thanked him and walked quickly in the direction Gass advised. Gass then radioed his son to warn him that a camouflaged hunter was walking his way. He said he didn't want his son to mistake Vang for a deer.

The son, Eric Gass, 19, testified that he watched from his tree stand as Vang made it to the trail to which Gass's father had directed him, but walked only a few feet down it before heading back into the woods, continuing south, away from the shooting scene.

"He was walking at a pretty good pace," the younger Gass testified. Both father and son testified that about a half hour after they encountered Vang, a man drove hurriedly up on an ATV and warned them that someone had gone crazy and was shooting hunters in the area.
 
Hey SS, no worries, the facts of the case, are the facts of the case.

I pulled this out of the article you posted:

"Vang's lawyers declined to cross-examine Newhouse. Wisconsin Attorney General Peg Lautenschlager said that Newhouse was among a group of the prosecution's final witnesses. She said the prosecution expects to rest its case Thursday.

Vang is expected to testify for the defense. Sawyer County Circuit Judge Norman Yackel told the jury Tuesday that the case may be in their hands as soon as Friday."


:eek: 1. Very interesting that the defense DID NOT cross the gun expert.
:eek: 2. Talk about a speedy trial! The prosecution says they'll rest Thursday.
:eek: 3. VANG IS GOING TO TESTIFY!
 
SimonSays said:
Prosecution witness Daryl Gass of New Auburn, Wis., testified late this morning that he was hunting out of a tree stand on public land 300 to 500 yards south of the shootings. He said he heard about 15 shots from that direction over about 10 minutes, and he assumed hunters had jumped an unusually large number of deer.
If these shots were all fired by Vang, then IMO there is no way that this was in self-defense. Self-defense would be firing like crazy and then running away. To stick around firing bullets into people for 10 minutes is deliberate and calculated.
 
I am prepared to eat a crow sandwich and admit that I am likely completely wrong on what I've believed about it being self defense. (After reading & hearing much more about the case over the past few days)


However, I still do not believe he went into the woods that day with the intent on killing anyone at all - it appears the guy was a walking angry time bomb, and the confrontation with the group sent him over the edge.
 
SimonSays said:
However, I still do not believe he went into the woods that day with the intent on killing anyone at all - it appears the guy was a walking angry time bomb, and the confrontation with the group sent him over the edge.
I agree completely.
 

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