WI - Tony Robinson, 19, fatally shot and killed by LE, Madison, 6 March 2015

[K_Z]

I will go on record stating I completely disagree with how Chief Koval handled this situation. It's terribly unfortunate this young man lost his life, and unfortunate that the LEO had to shoot the young man in the line of duty. But this reaction by the police chief "legitimizes" the crime in a way that is very offensive to me. Does the police chief go pray with the grandmother of every violent crime suspect a couple hours after the incident? Does the police chief go visit the mother of every violent crime suspect?

Why is this suspect's criminal record and behavior to be "suppressed" out of a misguided sense of "respect"? He was a very handsome kid. It's a terrible shame he made the choices he did. But the police chief should not be "apologizing" because LE was doing their very difficult job that evening responding to a call about a violent suspect. I get that they're worried about riots by activists and race-baiting opportunists that come out of the woodwork every time a black suspect is involved with a white police officer, but come on! This is ridiculous. The news media has gone completely insane with their race baiting reporting, IMO.

I do not understand any of this multi-layered race pandering, and I don't think I ever will. Nothing short of anarchy will ever satisfy the activists and opportunists, so we need to just stop trying to placate them with PC nonsense, IMO. There is nothing at all that can ever be done to satisfy these people, IMO. Nothing. We don't negotiate with terrorists, and we shouldn't be pretending to negotiate law enforcement with disgruntled anarchists.

I don't think Chief Koval's response to this police shooting was "perfect for white people." I don't think it was "perfect" for anybody, of any race. The police chief should not apologize to the families of criminals and criminal suspects for the act of policing in a violent suspect situation. That's appalling, IMO.

IMO, the only way we even begin to improve race relations is to completely remove race from all "social justice" conversations. Judge people on their behaviors and actions alone. It's way beyond time to do that in this country.

While Ferguson police initially gave little information about the shooting of Michael Brown, an 18-year-old, unarmed black man, Koval rushed to the home of Robinson's mother. She didn't want to meet with him, he said, but he talked and prayed with Robinson's grandmother in the driveway for 45 minutes.

When Koval was asked about Robinson's past criminal record Saturday, he declined to comment, saying it would be inappropriate to do so a day after the man died.

Two months ago, Koval wrote a blog post criticizing Young, Black and Gifted for blaming his officers for "everything from male pattern baldness to global warming." The entry came in response to the group staging protests over officer-involved deaths during rush-hour traffic, demanding jail officials release 350 black inmates and imploring police to stay out of black neighborhoods.

Koval tried to be diplomatic when asked about the post on Saturday, saying he and the group have agreed to disagree on policing black neighborhoods.

Grayson said Koval has had plenty of time to prepare for a racially charged shooting after watching what unfolded in Ferguson.

"He had a perfect response — perfect for white people," she said.

http://news.yahoo.com/madison-police-response-shooting-contrasts-ferguson-064356055.html

 

[hockeystar113]

IMO, the only way we even begin to improve race relations is to completely remove race from all "social justice" conversations. Judge people on their behaviors and actions alone. It's way beyond time to do that in this country.

I couldn't have said it any better myself.

Why is the focus on the race and not the crime?

 

[effervescent]

I will go on record stating I completely disagree with how Chief Koval handled this situation. It's terribly unfortunate this young man lost his life, and unfortunate that the LEO had to shoot the young man in the line of duty. But this reaction by the police chief "legitimizes" the crime in a way that is very offensive to me. Does the police chief go pray with the grandmother of every violent crime suspect a couple hours after the incident? Does the police chief go visit the mother of every violent crime suspect?

Why is this suspect's criminal record and behavior to be "suppressed" out of a misguided sense of "respect"? He was a very handsome kid. It's a terrible shame he made the choices he did. But the police chief should not be "apologizing" because LE was doing their very difficult job that evening responding to a call about a violent suspect. I get that they're worried about riots by activists and race-baiting opportunists that come out of the woodwork every time a black suspect is involved with a white police officer, but come on! This is ridiculous. The news media has gone completely insane with their race baiting reporting, IMO.

I do not understand any of this multi-layered race pandering, and I don't think I ever will. Nothing short of anarchy will ever satisfy the activists and opportunists, so we need to just stop trying to placate them with PC nonsense, IMO. There is nothing at all that can ever be done to satisfy these people, IMO. Nothing. We don't negotiate with terrorists, and we shouldn't be pretending to negotiate law enforcement with disgruntled anarchists.

I don't think Chief Koval's response to this police shooting was "perfect for white people." I don't think it was "perfect" for anybody, of any race. The police chief should not apologize to the families of criminals and criminal suspects for the act of policing in a violent suspect situation. That's appalling, IMO.

IMO, the only way we even begin to improve race relations is to completely remove race from all "social justice" conversations. Judge people on their behaviors and actions alone. It's way beyond time to do that in this country.






http://news.yahoo.com/madison-police-response-shooting-contrasts-ferguson-064356055.html

I live in Madison so I can give a little background. We have had a good number of officer involved shootings in the past five years, and YES - our police chief has a record of offering condolences, apologies and prayers to the families of the people who have succumbed to their injuries after having been shot by one of his officers. This is regardless of race... the last police shooting (less than a year ago) was of a young white woman - it was the first case of this type for Koval, who only recently became chief. His predecessor was also known to offer sincere apologies to families left behind in the most recent three or four civilian deaths at the hands of police officers - some black, some white. I see no reason to criticize this whatsoever - it is good PR and I truly believe the vast, vast majority of these cases are justified and a police officer's and department's worse nightmare.

A lot of the concern here in Madison is the number of shooting deaths involving police officers in recent years. It is way out of the ordinary, considering Madison only has a handful of homicides every year (I am thinking maybe 5 or 6 tops, most years) which is unusually few for a city its size. When around 1/4 of these deaths lately have involved police officers, it raises eyebrows.

In this particular case, the officer involved has already been involved in another police shooting where the police opened fire, killing the suspect (it was ruled "legit", suicide by cop). Add this fact to the already few homicides in Madison, but the relatively high percentage involving police action resulting in death and people might start to wonder about the officer in this case. It is highly unusual for a police officer in Madison to have to ever make the choice to shoot somebody, and ultimately kill them, let alone being involved in a matter like this twice in a period of about seven years. We had another police officer who killed an unarmed white man about four years ago - turns out this officer had disciplinary and behavioral issues while on the job that were under investigation at the time he killed this man (if you are interested, google Stephen Heimsness - the officer in that case) and he also had a history of excessive force. He was allowed to retire from the department, with full pension (which is sizable - I know this because my mom is a retired Madison PO), instead of the department completing their investigation and firing him outright.

It bothers me too that this has immediately been turned into a race issue, since the deaths by officers in Madison lately have been pretty much 50/50 in regards to race, if not even a little more for whites. I think it may be an excessive force issue, if anything. My heart breaks for the family of the young man. I understand he had past criminal charges, but that doesn't mean he should have died in these circumstances or that it is less tragic that he did, since he broke the law before.

The people protesting here are not anarchists or terrorists. They are broken-hearted, concerned citizens that have more facts about what is going on in Madison than what the rest of the nation is seeing. It has been peaceful here (so far) and I pray it continues to be so. This is a lovely city, full of good people that are trying to find some solutions before things get out hand like they have in other communities. Don't make assumptions based solely on what you are getting from your media sources.

 

[katydid23]

I live in Madison so I can give a little background. We have had a good number of officer involved shootings in the past five years, and YES - our police chief has a record of offering condolences, apologies and prayers to the families of the people who have succumbed to their injuries after having been shot by one of his officers. This is regardless of race... the last police shooting (less than a year ago) was of a young white woman - it was the first case of this type for Koval, who only recently became chief. His predecessor was also known to offer sincere apologies to families left behind in the most recent three or four civilian deaths at the hands of police officers - some black, some white. I see no reason to criticize this whatsoever - it is good PR and I truly believe the vast, vast majority of these cases are justified and a police officer's and department's worse nightmare.

A lot of the concern here in Madison is the number of shooting deaths involving police officers in recent years. It is way out of the ordinary, considering Madison only has a handful of homicides every year (I am thinking maybe 5 or 6 tops, most years) which is unusually few for a city its size. When around 1/4 of these deaths lately have involved police officers, it raises eyebrows.

In this particular case, the officer involved has already been involved in another police shooting where the police opened fire, killing the suspect (it was ruled "legit", suicide by cop). Add this fact to the already few homicides in Madison, but the relatively high percentage involving police action resulting in death and people might start to wonder about the officer in this case. It is highly unusual for a police officer in Madison to have to ever make the choice to shoot somebody, and ultimately kill them, let alone being involved in a matter like this twice in a period of about seven years. We had another police officer who killed an unarmed white man about four years ago - turns out this officer had disciplinary and behavioral issues while on the job that were under investigation at the time he killed this man (if you are interested, google Stephen Heimsness - the officer in that case) and he also had a history of excessive force. He was allowed to retire from the department, with full pension (which is sizable - I know this because my mom is a retired Madison PO), instead of the department completing their investigation and firing him outright.

It bothers me too that this has immediately been turned into a race issue, since the deaths by officers in Madison lately have been pretty much 50/50 in regards to race, if not even a little more for whites. I think it may be an excessive force issue, if anything. My heart breaks for the family of the young man. I understand he had past criminal charges, but that doesn't mean he should have died in these circumstances or that it is less tragic that he did, since he broke the law before.

The people protesting here are not anarchists or terrorists. They are broken-hearted, concerned citizens that have more facts about what is going on in Madison than what the rest of the nation is seeing. It has been peaceful here (so far) and I pray it continues to be so. This is a lovely city, full of good people that are trying to find some solutions before things get out hand like they have in other communities. Don't make assumptions based solely on what you are getting from your media sources.

Do you know anything about the other shooting by this same officer. From what I have seen, the man he shot, pointed a replica handgun directly at the officer, because he wanted to commit suicide by cop. That is what msm has reported. If that is what happened, how can this officer keep being called out for 'shooting another civilian?' It seems pretty unfair to keep saying this is his second shooting, AS IF he is a hot head or something.

According to the info that I have read, this shooting victim was acting violently and irrationally in the hours and minutes before the cop confronted him. He was attacking strangers, tried to strangle someone at a gas station, and was running into the street yelling at drivers, and punched his friend who tried to stop him. That was told to the officers who responded to the call.

So the officer answers the calls of several who dialed 911, about an irrational , aggressive, young man out of control. What is the officer supposed to do if this aggressive young man attacks him? Is he supposed to roll around on the floor with him longer, and hope he can win the fight? And hope he doesn't have a gun or knife on him? Cops are human beings with families of their own. They do not need to sacrifice themselves in order to save someone who is acting out violently and aggressively against others. It is very sad for the victims family. But it is not the officers fault that their son was assaulting others and needed to be arrested. Sometimes lethal force is needed when an officer is being assaulted. Sad but true.

The young man did not die because he broke the law in the past, or because he was black. He died because he attacked a cop who was trying to arrest him. JMO

As for the police chief, it is nice that he has so much compassion for the young mans family. But it seemed like he was throwing the police department under the bus in the way he worded things. Apologizing makes it appear as if the officer made a deadly mistake. Makes it sound like he was in the wrong. And that is a bad position to put these officers in, with the way things are right now. JMO

 

[katydid23]

BBM - couldn't agree more with that part of your statement. It was getting old 50yrs ago.

Hey we agree on something! :wave:

 

[effervescent]

Do you know anything about the other shooting by this same officer. From what I have seen, the man he shot, pointed a replica handgun directly at the officer, because he wanted to commit suicide by cop. That is what msm has reported. If that is what happened, how can this officer keep being called out for 'shooting another civilian?' It seems pretty unfair to keep saying this is his second shooting, AS IF he is a hot head or something.

According to the info that I have read, this shooting victim was acting violently and irrationally in the hours and minutes before the cop confronted him. He was attacking strangers, tried to strangle someone at a gas station, and was running into the street yelling at drivers, and punched his friend who tried to stop him. That was told to the officers who responded to the call.

So the officer answers the calls of several who dialed 911, about an irrational , aggressive, young man out of control. What is the officer supposed to do if this aggressive young man attacks him? Is he supposed to roll around on the floor with him longer, and hope he can win the fight? And hope he doesn't have a gun or knife on him? Cops are human beings with families of their own. They do not need to sacrifice themselves in order to save someone who is acting out violently and aggressively against others. It is very sad for the victims family. But it is not the officers fault that their son was assaulting others and needed to be arrested. Sometimes lethal force is needed when an officer is being assaulted. Sad but true.

The young man did not die because he broke the law in the past, or because he was black. He died because he attacked a cop who was trying to arrest him. JMO

As for the police chief, it is nice that he has so much compassion for the young mans family. But it seemed like he was throwing the police department under the bus in the way he worded things. Apologizing makes it appear as if the officer made a deadly mistake. Makes it sound like he was in the wrong. And that is a bad position to put these officers in, with the way things are right now. JMO

All I am saying is statistically it is unusual that this officer has been involved in two shootings, at least here in Madison, where things like this just don't happen all that often. I already said he was cleared in the first case, that it was suicide by cop.

I am not making excuses or accusations towards either the police officer or the deceased. I also said I don't like that this is a race issue. I never said the young man was killed for being black, or because of his past criminal history. Please don't assume or infer that is what was I getting at.
I have tons of friends and family in law enforcement, my mom was a police officer, so I am in no way one who is quick to turn against the police in these situations. It does concern me that we have had an unusual amount of people dying at the hands of our police officers, when you consider we just don't have that many homicides period.

I mainly was trying to give some insight about Madison as a city, about how our police department typically handles things, that homicides in general don't happen very often (whether it is death at the hands of police or somebody else) and I wanted to make it clear that things are peaceful here in the aftermath. Yes people are angry, upset, and are protesting and holding vigils... but this is not Ferguson, not even close.
Koval's apology is nothing unusual for how the police department has always handled things of this nature. I live here, I have seen apologies offered in every single case like this, over the last few years, by the police department and it is not throwing anybody under the bus. It is about acknowledging a tragedy, no matter the circumstances. I think people who don't live here are looking for trouble where there mostly is none.

 

[katydid23]

All I am saying is statistically it is unusual that this officer has been involved in two shootings, at least here in Madison, where things like this just don't happen all that often. I already said he was cleared in the first case, that it was suicide by cop.
By the same token, people are saying this kid is a and deserved to die since he was a felon.

I am not making excuses or accusations towards either the police officer or the deceased. I have tons of friends and family in law enforcement, my mom was a police officer, so I am in no way one who is quick to turn against the police in these situations. It does concern me that we have had an unusual amount of people dying at the hands of our police officers, when you consider we just don't have that many homicides period.

I mainly was trying to give some insight about Madison as a city, about how our police department typically handles things, that homicides in general don't happen very often (whether it is death at the hands of police or somebody else) and I wanted to make it clear that things are peaceful here in the aftermath. Yes people are angry, upset, and are protesting and holding vigils... but this is not Ferguson, not even close.
Koval's apology is nothing unusual for how the police department has always handled things of this nature. I live here, I have seen apologies offered in every single case like this, over the last few years, by the police department and it is not throwing anybody under the bus. It is about acknowledging a tragedy, no matter the circumstances. I think people who don't live here are looking for trouble where there mostly is none.

I guess I just felt that by pointing out the unusual statistics of the officer being involved in two shootings, it makes it seem that one is implying that he did something wrong. And I feel sorry for him and his family.

As for the unusual amount of people dying at the hands of officers, I don't think it has to do with the city's homicide rate. I think it has more to do with the scourge of drugs and mental health issues. JMO

I disagree that there are not problems there in the aftermath. According to CNN, [which may be wrong], there is going to be a high school walk out today. And there is a big protest planned, where CHILDREN will bring crayons and color pictures in honor of the fallen victim and JUSTICE for him. In my opinion, these young kids are being indoctrinated AGAINST the police. And if so, there will be many more violent confrontations in the future. JMO

 

[effervescent]

I guess I just felt that by pointing out the unusual statistics of the officer being involved in two shootings, it makes it seem that one is implying that he did something wrong. And I feel sorry for him and his family.

As for the unusual amount of people dying at the hands of officers, I don't think it has to do with the city's homicide rate. I think it has more to do with the scourge of drugs and mental health issues. JMO

I disagree that there are not problems there in the aftermath. According to CNN, [which may be wrong], there is going to be a high school walk out today. And there is a big protest planned, where CHILDREN will bring crayons and color pictures in honor of the fallen victim and JUSTICE for him. In my opinion, these young kids are being indoctrinated AGAINST the police. And if so, there will be many more violent confrontations in the future. JMO

I don't know how else to get across the fact that we just don't have a high rate of homicide in this city, but that the police have been the cause of death in about 20 or so % of the cases the last few years. That is unusual, let alone an officer having been involved in two cases like this. It just is... it's not blame. But it is something that people are questioning here, whether you feel it's fair or not. I don't think it is any less fair to bring up this officer's history than that of the deceased.

An investigation, which has barely even started, will decide. The odds, based on what it already coming out and based on the 911 recordings, are with the officer being completely exonerated.

I agree that drugs and mental health issues are part of the problem and probably the cause of the majority of the homicides here lately. Nobody is focusing much on that, in my city or most other bigger cities, unfortunately. So things like this are going to continue to happen. That is not the fault of the police. I wish they were given more protection, resources and support and that the problems with drugs and mental health were dealt before it ever gets to the point that police officers have to make such a horrific choice. But we have had cases of questionable policing here in Madison (officer Heimsness, that I mentioned in an earlier post) so not all police officers are as honorable as we would wish.

As for the aftermath, I guess my sense of what is a problem is different than yours. No fires, no looting, peaceful protesting = not a problem to me. Kids walking out of school to protest? Most of them are doing it to skip school. It is happening now, as a matter of fact. It's happened here before, it will happen again. I don't see a problem. Madison is a city of peaceful protest, always has been - regardless of our governor implying it is somehow threatening or terrorist behavior. Kids with crayons coloring pictures for the deceased? I hadn't heard that, but I don't see that as a direct slam on the police. Sorry, I just don't.

 

[cocomod]

This sentence is what gets me :
http://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...d7320a-c529-11e4-a188-8e4971d37a8d_story.html

The entry came in response to the group staging protests over officer-involved deaths during rush-hour traffic, demanding jail officials release 350 black inmates and imploring police to stay out of black neighborhoods.

Really?!! Can you just imagine what would happen? How about the law abiding citizens in those areas. I highly doubt that they would want this to happen. This is just plain sad. I do honestly believe that MSM race baits. They are starting a very nasty habit of shining the light on these instances. What needs to happen - IMHO - is MSM should be shining a light on the idea that communities should reduce crime!
:moo:

 

[KALI]

Thank you. Excellent post imo

 

[CuriousGuy]

This sentence is what gets me :
http://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...d7320a-c529-11e4-a188-8e4971d37a8d_story.html


Really?!! Can you just imagine what would happen? How about the law abiding citizens in those areas. I highly doubt that they would want this to happen. This is just plain sad. I do honestly believe that MSM race baits. They are starting a very nasty habit of shining the light on these instances. What needs to happen - IMHO - is MSM should be shining a light on the idea that communities should reduce crime!
:moo:

How "progressive" of them.

 

[i.b.nora]

January 9, 2015

Young Gifted and Black Coalition: Open letter to Madison Police Chief Michael Koval
Written by Young Gifted and Black Coalition
Friday, 09 January 2015 13:44

Excerpt:

"An open letter to Madison Police Chief Michael Koval from the Young Gifted and Black Coalition:

Dear Police Chief Koval,

We are writing you to explain our position and our demands as they relate to your police department.

First, we think that in comparison to departments in other cities you have done well in protecting our right to free speech at our weekly actions.

Our targeting of the police department relates to the violence that Black people have faced at the hands of police in the murders of Dontre Hamilton in Milwaukee, Eric Garner in New York City, Michael Brown in Ferguson, and countless others, but it also relates to the violence of heavy policing and arrest rate disparities in Madison.

Although Madison's model of community policing and attempt to build trust between the community and police, even acting as “social workers,” may be a step above certain other communities, our arrest rates and incarceration disparities still top the nation. The relationship that we desire to have with the police is simple: no interaction. Our ultimate goal is to be able to hold our own communities accountable and to expel what we consider an occupying force in our neighborhoods. Our people need opportunities for self-determination, not policing."​

++++++++++++++++++++++

January 12, 2015

Chief Koval's Blog/Response to an Open Letter
City of Madison
Chief Koval's Blog
2015 11:33 AM

Excerpt:

On January 9, 2015, the group known as the Young, Gifted, and Black Coalition sent an "Open Letter to Police Chief Koval" and recipients including Mayor Paul Soglin and City of Madison Alders.

While there were many concerns and "demands" that were directed to me, one paragraph stood out for its "shock" value. The paragraph is as follows:

"Although Madison's model of community policing and attempt to build trust between the community and police, even acting as "social workers," may be a step above certain other communities, our arrest rates and incarceration disparities still top the nation. THE RELATIONSHIP THAT WE DESIRE TO HAVE WITH THE POLICE IS SIMPLE: NO INTERACTION (my emphasis). Our ultimate goal is to be able to hold our own communities accountable and to expel what we consider an occupying force in our neighborhoods. Our people need opportunities for self-determination, not policing."

I feel compelled to respond to a letter that views the Madison Police Department as an "occupying force" and neighborhoods that would be better off without us. My response to this "open" letter is contained in this blog:"​

 

[katydid23]

I don't know how else to get across the fact that we just don't have a high rate of homicide in this city, but that the police have been the cause of death in about 20 or so % of the cases the last few years. That is unusual, let alone an officer having been involved in two cases like this. It just is... it's not blame. But it is something that people are questioning here, whether you feel it's fair or not. I don't think it is any less fair to bring up this officer's history than that of the deceased.

An investigation, which has barely even started, will decide. The odds, based on what it already coming out and based on the 911 recordings, are with the officer being completely exonerated.

I agree that drugs and mental health issues are part of the problem and probably the cause of the majority of the homicides here lately. Nobody is focusing much on that, in my city or most other bigger cities, unfortunately. So things like this are going to continue to happen. That is not the fault of the police. I wish they were given more protection, resources and support and that the problems with drugs and mental health were dealt before it ever gets to the point that police officers have to make such a horrific choice. But we have had cases of questionable policing here in Madison (officer Heimsness, that I mentioned in an earlier post) so not all police officers are as honorable as we would wish.

As for the aftermath, I guess my sense of what is a problem is different than yours. No fires, no looting, peaceful protesting = not a problem to me. Kids walking out of school to protest? Most of them are doing it to skip school. It is happening now, as a matter of fact. It's happened here before, it will happen again. I don't see a problem. Madison is a city of peaceful protest, always has been - regardless of our governor implying it is somehow threatening or terrorist behavior. Kids with crayons coloring pictures for the deceased? I hadn't heard that, but I don't see that as a direct slam on the police. Sorry, I just don't.

BBM

It is considered the same thing to compare the officers 'history' as it is the teens. I agree. But the officer's shooting history is that he shot at a man who was aiming a gun at him. There was no malicious intent upon his part in that shooting. But it keeps being brought up as if he did something wrong. Yet the teens recent history included armed robbery and home invasion charges. He did have a violent history. And he was acting out in an aggressive and violent way that night.

So I don't understand why the city is looking at the police force in trying to understand what happened that night. The officer was not the source of the violence or the aggression. He was called to that location because of the aggressive actions of the teen. It is sad that it ended the way that it did. But it was because of Tony's wrong choices that it escalated. JMO

As for the kids with crayons, it is a memorial program put on by Young Gifted and Black. So I assume that it will be a direct slam on the police. Just my gut feeling. But I think it will be designed to build up anti-police sentiment and train kids to resist and rebel at every opportunity.

It just really bothers me so much, that an entire town comes out and marches in honor of a young man who is violently robbing people in their own homes and assaulting strangers, causing mayhem. And the entire community comes out and makes him a hero? I think the young folk need better heroes to look up to than Tony T and Mike B. JMO :cow:

 

[al66pine]

In Madison city limits, average of 5 murders/yr, in line w what efferevscent posted.
I can't get crime chart to copy, but this ^ is from http://www.city-data.com/city/Madison-Wisconsin.html
Murders, yrs = 2000-2012, 13 yrs, annual count ranging for 2 to 10/yr., total = 64 murders.

FWIW
"Madison Police Department .... has over 400 full-time officers.
2012 controversyThe Madison Police Department was criticized for absolving Officer Steve Heimsness of any wrongdoing in the November 2012 shooting death of an unarmed man, Paul Heenan. The department's actions resulted in community protests, including demands that the shooting be examined and reviewed by an independent investigative body.[SUP][86][/SUP] WisconsinWatch.org called into question the MPD's facts and findings, stating that the use of deadly force by Heimsness was unwarranted.[SUP][87][/SUP] There were calls for an examination of the Madison Police Department’s rules of engagement and due process for officers who use lethal force in the line of duty.". bbm sbm
^ from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madison,_Wisconsin

 

[liljim]

some people have been wondering why the officer didnt wait for back up, which is a good question. i would imagine that his answer is going to be that he heard what sounded like a possible fight inside the apartment and since he was responding to a call about someone that had just assaulted two people, possibly trying to strangle one, that he felt he needed to enter asap. he should be ok here, i would imagine that protocol would allow for that tho i am not 100% certain.

there is already a claim that he was attacked in some way once inside and im sure his explanation of what happened will cover him regarding firing his weapon also, unless;

three is one earwitness so far, that says that she heard what sounded like the officer entering the apartment, then a ruckus, and then SOMEONE GOING DOWN THE STAIRS, and then the shots.

this woman has told her story on CNN a dozen times now and not one person has commented on that aspect of her version.

she could be wrong, it could have been the officer falling down the stairs, etc... we dont know. but it stands out to me as an important detail to clear up. where exactly the shots took place, inside the apartment or in the stairwell...

there is also a report of him being shot 5 times in the chest, that is not confirmed as far as i know, if it is true it certainly implies he was shot from the front but its way too early to say. has anyone heard anything to confirm anything about the shots?

 

[katydid23]

some people have been wondering why the officer didnt wait for back up, which is a good question. i would imagine that his answer is going to be that he heard what sounded like a possible fight inside the apartment and since he was responding to a call about someone that had just assaulted two people, possibly trying to strangle one, that he felt he needed to enter asap. he should be ok here, i would imagine that protocol would allow for that tho i am not 100% certain.

there is already a claim that he was attacked in some way once inside and im sure his explanation of what happened will cover him regarding firing his weapon also, unless;

three is one earwitness so far, that says that she heard what sounded like the officer entering the apartment, then a ruckus, and then SOMEONE GOING DOWN THE STAIRS, and then the shots.

this woman has told her story on CNN a dozen times now and not one person has commented on that aspect of her version.

she could be wrong, it could have been the officer falling down the stairs, etc... we dont know. but it stands out to me as an important detail to clear up. where exactly the shots took place, inside the apartment or in the stairwell...

there is also a report of him being shot 5 times in the chest, that is not confirmed as far as i know, if it is true it certainly implies he was shot from the front but its way too early to say. has anyone heard anything to confirm anything about the shots?

What i heard on KFI talk radio this afternoon, was that TR was scuffling with the guy in the apartment. The cop heard the fighting and forced his way into the apt. because he had heard from the dispatch that the suspect was being aggressive and violent with others. So those steps down the stairs were probably from the person who was just saved by the cop. Apparently TR punched the cop in the face or head and they began wrestling, which was when he pulled his gun.

If the cop had waited for backup, the other person may have been badly injured, from what was reported on the scanner. TR had tried to strangle a bystander in the gas station earlier.

I am not going to blame the officer for outcome because IMO, it stemmed from the aggressive and wrong choices made by TR that night. JMO

 

[liljim]

"I am not going to blame the officer for outcome"

i have not heard anyone on here do that.

 

[katydid23]

"I am not going to blame the officer for outcome"

i have not heard anyone on here do that.

Maybe not on here. But thousands are marching in Madison, in protest, and the Uncle said 'they had blood on their hands, and the cops were targeting young black men.' So it seems that there is a strong narrative being sold in Madison that the cops were to blame for the outcome. JMO

Also, I was referring to your question, which was why the cop didn't wait for backup. I think that question was a form of blaming the cop, imo. NOT BY YOU, just by whomever is asking that.

 

[liljim]

gotcha.

your scenario makes sense of someone else running out, i didnt think of it actually because i figured we would have heard from them or about them by now. but not necessarily and it would explain the sequence of events the woman describes.

 

[liljim]

i think some people might be looking to find fault in the cops actions by asking why he didnt wait for backup, but i think a reasonable person can ask the question also without having an agenda.

for me right now it is explained by the fact that he says he heard an altercation, now we just wait for the full details to come out and see if it all makes sense.