Will the Grand Jury Indict & if so, on what charge(s)?

[jadejazzkayla]

i think le is trying to make a case that DD saw the RO before it was released to the public.

 

[pdxWOHM]

I think they will charge her with a lesser charge such as conspiracy until they have more evidence to bring a bigger charge against her.

Until they truly believe Kyron is dead, they may be reluctant to charge her with murder or manslaughter -- not with the possibility of him turning up alive.

While I am not sure there is enough evidence to convict her of conspiracy or custodial interference (based on what has been released to the public), I do believe there is enough to go to trial with.

 

[2goldfish]

I voted in CI and kidnapping ...if they think she is involved these seem most likely ...since if there were a body the info would have been leaked....

no body no murder and let's hope that is literal in this case, I want kyron found alive and very well....I'll keep dremaing til I have to think otherwise...

I still suspect the MFH plot is not true, it doesnt ring sincere to me in any way....

I feel that silly setup to entrap her went nowhere and LE only went with it as they had no actual evidence .....therefore GJ indictment on that seems shaky as jello at absolute best....

although perhaps LE has much more than we know and truth is I cant really guess unless charges are brought forth...

 

[debirlfan]

Just a question - could the grand jury indite someone other than TH? I'm not sure how GJs work - once they started digging, if the evidence was shown to point to someone else, would they have to have a different GJ?

 

[SmoothOperator]

It is IMHO and more so In My Deepest prayer that LE is(as I am thinking they are/do)has a large amount of the pieces to this puzzle(referring to precious Kyron's "disappearance") and that they have wisely(and may I add EXTREMELY successfully) kept those pertinent pieces so very close to the vest, therefor ensuring the solidarity of such evidence and un-corrupted by media's twists and turns, molding potential evidence into something that it IS NOT!..

It is my hope that LE has skillfully and similarly "played" this out as I have stated above. So, if this indeed is the case I would expect possible indictments of kidnapping, homicide, with conspiracy to commit the kidnapping&homicide, along with by proxy possibly the custodial interference.(tho if anything like in CA case such lower charges such as the CI are foregone for the charges of Homicide[&kidnapping] which of course would supercede the CI charge)

But as I said this is my opinion and more than ANYTHING my greatest hope and prayer that LE is "right in the know" of exactly what has transpired(and just not able to find the all important piece of Kyron's location)...

But I also will say that MOST IMPORTANT OF ALL is that those who harmed Kyron be brought to justice(and thats any one and ALL involved)and if there is evidence that points to Terri's innocence then I want that to be fully known. I want the guilty to pay and I want the guilty to give Desiree the closure that this mother needs in order to be able to live and be a mother to her other child(a child that is still here and very much needs and deserves to have a mother)... CLOSURE AND JUSTICE ARE WHAT I SEEK THE VERY MOST!!!

 

[chasing.halos]

I chose Custodial Interference, Conspiracy and Other. My Other= Child Endangerment.

 

[cluciano63]

I don't think they just want her in jail, as most charges would be bondable. I think they want to know if they have a case for one of the highest charges, murder or kidnapping. What would custodial interference bring? Surely she would be able to bond out on that charge? And I am doubting it is the MFH allegations simply because of DY and possible TY testifying.

 

[SmoothOperator]

I don't think they just want her in jail, as most charges would be bondable. I think they want to know if they have a case for one of the highest charges, murder or kidnapping. What would custodial interference bring? Surely she would be able to bond out on that charge? And I am doubting it is the MFH allegations simply because of DY and possible TY testifying.

I agree completely with your statement about MFH plot...

BTW~ I know OT but cluciano, I have wondered since I was even a "lurker" are those your precious kitties of which you have so many pieces of absolutely magnificent photography? Are you by chance the talented photographer of these?....
Have ALWAYS wondered but never taken the opp to ask you... TIA...

 

[Leila]

Will the Grand Jury return an indictment against Terri Horman, and if so, what will the charge(s) be?

You can pick multiple charges/options. The poll wouldn't allow me to also allow write-in options, so please choose #9 for this, and post your thoughts.

Vote and discuss!

This link has all the Oregon statutes for Offenses Against Persons, which include homicide, kidnapping, child trafficking, etc:
https://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/chapter/163

Thanks,
BeanE

I voted for three items for indictment - Kidnapping, Custodial Interference, and the MFH plot.

In one recent article I read it stated that LE has given the grand jury in excess of 200 pages of documentation. I suspect that LE is holding a lot of circumstantial evidence it has accumulated from the public. I think that the totality of this documented material will support a kidnapping charge and the MFH charge, and since DY was supposed to have her custody/visitation beginning the afternoon of June 4th, custodial interference can also be supported.

Until Kyron is found, I don't think a homicide or manslaughter charge would be supported. Unless it's found that more than one person was involved in Kyron's disappearance, the charge of conspiracy isn't supported. This, of course, is subject to change.

 

[miabellamoure]

If I had read the poll better...I'd have voted for Homicide as well as MFH...but, still I was surprised to see the number of members who also voted Homicide with me.

I want to believe that LE does have evidence that will prove that TH did take Kyron from Skyline on June 4th and LE has been keeping a lid on it.

Since we do not know for sure the outcome of the questionnaire that LE handed out to the parents, students & staff of Skyline Elementary...I hold out hope that maybe just one person witnessed TH leave with Kyron and they are keeping it close to the vest for whatever reason.

 

[cluciano63]

I agree completely with your statement about MFH plot...

BTW~ I know OT but cluciano, I have wondered since I was even a "lurker" are those your precious kitties of which you have so many pieces of absolutely magnificent photography? Are you by chance the talented photographer of these?....
Have ALWAYS wondered but never taken the opp to ask you... TIA...

Only the solid black cat is mine... the little kitties are photos from the web from various free sites that allow downloading...no, i wish i had all these kitties and talent to photograph them

 

[MsFacetious]

I do NOT think they will charge her with Child Abuse, Child Neglect or Child Endangerment if their argument would be that the crime led to the child's death. Because technically they would have already charged her for the child's death. So if they found his body, with absolute proof he was murdered...they couldn't charge her.

Remember Casey Anthony? They dropped the initial child neglect charges for that very reason. They wanted to charge her with homicide.

I just don't think they will charge her with anything "small" that would prevent them from later charging her with something more serious. If Custodial Interference would be what led to Kidnapping and prevent them from charging that later, I don't think they would do it.

I see no issue on the Murder For Hire situation with another charge later. There wouldn't be another one there, other than Conspiracy.

The thought of seeing a headline that says "Terri Horman charged with homicide" makes me want to vomit. So I refuse to go there. I don't think they will charge her for anything like that without a body. I know I won't believe it until there is one and there is no way I would indict her for that.

 

[Billylee]

If all we know for facts are: Terri was seen at the sci-fair the morning of Friday June 4th, with Kyron. How on earth could she be indicted for anything having to do with his disappearance?

We don't even know if he left with her or without her at this point, do we? She says she left him at 8:45, but that's just her word and there is apparently no one who knows or can prove anything differently, at least not that WE know of anyway. As far as I know you can't be indicted for dropping your kid off at school 5 minutes early and be charged for child endangerment if he disappeared two minutes before the bell rang.

When LE made the statement earlier on that "criminal behavior has occurred" (I think that was it.) I truly believe they were referring to the MFHP, and that is what I expected they would go after her for. But, why would they set up a sting on that if they had enough to bring her in. I think all they had was the landscaper's word against hers and that alone would not be enough to convict on, and they know it. Do they have more info now? Maybe, maybe not. Problem is they're not talking, so I don't know how we can make any kind of decision on the indictment charges based on anything other than speculation, you know what I mean: if this, then that, etc.

I hope they have more info now and I hope they are right in their avenue of pursuit, for Kyron's sake, and for the safety of all other children. And I hope when this is all over, we're all saying what a great job LE did on this one.

 

[Jo in Calif]

I do NOT think they will charge her with Child Abuse, Child Neglect or Child Endangerment if their argument would be that the crime led to the child's death. Because technically they would have already charged her for the child's death. So if they found his body, with absolute proof he was murdered...they couldn't charge her.

Remember Casey Anthony? They dropped the initial child neglect charges for that very reason. They wanted to charge her with homicide.

I just don't think they will charge her with anything "small" that would prevent them from later charging her with something more serious. If Custodial Interference would be what led to Kidnapping and prevent them from charging that later, I don't think they would do it.

I see no issue on the Murder For Hire situation with another charge later. There wouldn't be another one there, other than Conspiracy.

The thought of seeing a headline that says "Terri Horman charged with homicide" makes me want to vomit. So I refuse to go there. I don't think they will charge her for anything like that without a body. I know I won't believe it until there is one and there is no way I would indict her for that.

Arizona's Elizabeth Johnson is being held for. K, CI and CA, if they arrest Terry for those 3 felonies and a body is later discovered they can also drop the CA charges, as they did for Casey Anthony.

 

[TxLady2]

I have no idea. For myself, I see no point in guessing anything at this point, because we simply do not know what evidence they have.
Homicide? Not right now, unless they have evidence that he was murdered. They can't charge her on the suspicion that he is dead... has to be solid proof that a murder did occur and they have to tie her into it. Just having proof that she took him from the school is not enough. She could have handed him off to someone else or any number of things. And he is/was her stepson... just taking him from the school is not a crime... unless they can prove her intent was to do bodily harm. That's the kicker... how are they going to prove that unless they find a body or some proof he's dead.
This Grand Jury may have their work cut out for them.

 

[Donjeta]

It's a toss-up for me right now. Without finding Kyron the odds of having any charges stick would be small IMO, based on what we know. But LE knows more than us so maybe they have something helpful. It could be they do not even want to indict her right away but are simply gathering evidence at this point, for a possible later indictment.

 

[Calliope]

Unless the prosecutor has a LOT more evidence than we know of so far, I don't see how they can indict her on anything at this point. My gut might tell me she took Kyron, but I couldn't vote to indict or convict and would hope that a juror wouldn't vote on their 'gut' but the evidence provided. So I'm really hoping they haven't jumped the gun here.

 

[cluciano63]

Am confused again...I thought several people weighed in and said grand juries are not called for the purpose of gathering evidence, but only to hear evidence and decide whether or not to indict...in other words, working on specific charges.

Can they just call people in for a week or ten days to talk about their relationships with Terri, how she has been acting the past six months, etc. and ask if they have any information about Kyron? Or do they have to have a specific charge or charges in mind and the people coming in may or may not be able to clarify the details surrounding the crime in question?

Even what I am asking is confusing... guess I will go to the legal thread.

 

[Calliope]

Am confused again...I thought several people weighed in and said grand juries are not called for the purpose of gathering evidence, but only to hear evidence and decide whether or not to indict...in other words, working on specific charges.

Can they just call people in for a week or ten days to talk about their relationships with Terri, how she has been acting the past six months, etc. and ask if they have any information about Kyron? Or do they have to have a specific charge or charges in mind and the people coming in may or may not be able to clarify the details surrounding the crime in question?

Even what I am asking is confusing... guess I will go to the legal thread.

When the grand jury is formed, the court shall charge it and give it such information as the court deems proper concerning the nature of its powers and duties, or charges for crime returned to the court or likely to come before the grand jury.
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The grand jury shall retire into a private room and may inquire into crimes committed or triable in the county and present them to the court, either by presentment or indictment, as provided in ORS 132.310 to 132.390
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(1) Except as provided in subsections (2) to (10) of this section, in the investigation of a charge for the purpose of indictment, the grand jury shall receive no other evidence than such as might be given on the trial of the person charged with the crime in question.

(2) A report or a copy of a report made by a physicist, chemist, medical examiner, physician, firearms identification expert, examiner of questioned documents, fingerprint technician, or an expert or technician in some comparable scientific or professional field, concerning the results of an examination, comparison or test performed by such person in connection with a case which is the subject of a grand jury proceeding, shall, when certified by such person as a report made by such person or as a true copy thereof, be received in evidence in the grand jury proceeding.

(3) An affidavit of a witness who is unable to appear before the grand jury shall be received in evidence in the grand jury proceeding if, upon application by the district attorney, the presiding judge for the judicial district in which the grand jury is sitting authorizes such receipt after good cause has been shown for the witness’ inability to appear. An affidavit taken in another state or territory of the United States, the District of Columbia or in a foreign country must be authenticated as provided in ORS 194.505 to 194.575 before it can be used in this state.

(4) A grand jury that is investigating a charge of criminal driving while suspended or revoked under ORS 811.182 may receive in evidence an affidavit of a peace officer with a report or copy of a report of the peace officer concerning the peace officer’s investigation of the violation of ORS 811.182 by the defendant.

(5) A grand jury may receive testimony of a witness by means of simultaneous television transmission allowing the grand jury and district attorney to observe and communicate with the witness and the witness to observe and communicate with the grand jury and the district attorney.

(6) A grand jury that is investigating a charge of failure to appear under ORS 133.076, 153.992, 162.195 or 162.205 may receive in evidence an affidavit of a court employee certifying that the defendant failed to appear as required by law and setting forth facts sufficient to support that conclusion.

(7)(a) Except as otherwise provided in this subsection, a grand jury may receive in evidence through the testimony of one peace officer involved in the criminal investigation under grand jury inquiry information from an official report of another peace officer involved in the same criminal investigation concerning the other peace officer’s investigation of the matter before the grand jury. The statement of a person suspected of committing an offense or inadmissible hearsay of persons other than the peace officer who compiled the official report may not be presented to a grand jury under this paragraph.

(b) If the official report contains evidence other than chain of custody, venue or the name of the person suspected of committing an offense, the grand jurors must be notified that the evidence is being submitted by report and that the peace officer who compiled the report will be made available for testimony at the request of the grand jury. When a grand jury requests the testimony of a peace officer under this paragraph, the peace officer may present sworn testimony by telephone if requiring the peace officer’s presence before the grand jury would constitute an undue hardship on the peace officer or the agency that employs or utilizes the peace officer.

(8) A grand jury that is investigating a charge of failure to report as a sex offender under ORS 181.599 may receive in evidence certified copies of the form required by ORS 181.603 (2) and sex offender registration forms and an affidavit of a representative of the Oregon State Police, as keepers of the state’s sex offender registration records, certifying that the certified copies of the forms constitute the complete record for the defendant.

(9) The grand jury is not bound to hear evidence for the defendant, but it shall weigh all the evidence submitted to it; and when it believes that other evidence within its reach will explain away the charge, it should order such evidence to be produced, and for that purpose may require the district attorney to issue process for the witnesses.

(10) A grand jury that is investigating a charge of driving while under the influence of intoxicants in violation of ORS 813.010 may receive in evidence an affidavit of a peace officer regarding any or all of the following:

(a) Whether the defendant was driving.

(b) Whether the defendant took or refused to take tests under any provision of ORS chapter 813.

(c) The administration of tests under any provision of ORS chapter 813 and the results of such tests.

(d) The officer’s observations of physical or mental impairment of the defendant.
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The district attorney may submit an indictment to the grand jury in any case when the district attorney has good reason to believe that a crime has been committed which is triable within the county.
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(1) When the grand jury is in doubt whether the facts, as shown by the evidence before it, constitute a crime in law or whether the same has ceased to be punishable by reason of lapse of time or a former acquittal or conviction, it may make a presentment of the facts to the court, without mentioning the names of individuals, and ask the court for instructions concerning the law arising thereon.

(2) A presentment cannot be found and made to the court except as provided in subsection (1) of this section, and, when so found and presented, the court shall give such instructions to the grand jury concerning the law of the case as it thinks proper and necessary.

(3) A presentment is made to the court by the foreman in the presence of the grand jury. But being a mere formal statement of facts for the purpose of obtaining the advice of the court as to the law arising thereon, it is not to be filed in court or preserved beyond the sitting of the grand jury.

http://law.onecle.com/oregon/132-grand-jury-indictments-and-other/index.html

 

[cluciano63]

Ok, now I'm more confused... but thanks, will read it a few more time.